Wayang Kulit, I don't get you Malaysians Options

[Astromantic]

(IMG:http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/742/wayangkulithj6.jpg)

I got that from the Malaysian tourism site, if you think I'm making this up then check this out : http://www.tourism.gov.my/en/theme_culture/default.asp

I thought wayang kulit is Indonesian, it came from Java and Java is a freaking long way to Malaysia. I fu-king don't get you guys... Taking culture and land from another country. What, haven't you got one yourself? Aren't you satisfied with the whole Malay, Chinese and Indian culture diversity? I've also discovered some of our (note: INDONESIAN's) dances and costumes were being taken by Malaysians and I saw it with my own eyes in the ASEAN cultural show here in the Netherlands, the Malaysians danced with Acehnese costume.

This post has been edited by Astromantic: Oct 28 2006, 01:05 AM

[Centurion]

(IMG:http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/742/wayangkulithj6.jpg)

I got that from the Malaysian tourism site, if you think I'm making this up then check this out : http://www.tourism.gov.my/en/theme_culture/default.asp

I thought wayang kulit is Indonesian, it came from Java and Java is a freaking long way to Malaysia. I fu-king don't get you guys... Taking culture and land from another country. What, haven't you got one yourself? Aren't you satisfied with the whole Malay, Chinese and Indian culture diversity? I've also discovered some of our (note: INDONESIAN's) dances and costumes were being taken by Malaysians and I saw it with my own eyes in the ASEAN cultural show here in the Netherlands, the Malaysians danced with Acehnese costume.

Does the fact that dian xin originates from China, make the Dim Sum in Hong Kong any less Hong Kong style?

Should the fact that uramaki (the inside out sushi) becoming popular in Southern California and thus re-Christened "California Roll" ban Japanese people from embracing the American adoption now as "Kashu-maki"?

You are probably annoyed because you look at things from a purist's point of view.
But assuredly, there is a Malay wayang kulit. And Malays do wear costumes other than a tudung. These may not be exclusively Malay. Other cultures may have such pretty artistic treasures too. Because the Malay and the Indonesians share a common history.
Since when has a Malay person ever claimed that Indonesians are VERY UNLIKE THEM or vice versa?

The real tragedy is that the Malays themselves have killed off so much of their own culture because of the purist interpretation of Islam. The art of wayang kulit Malaysia has few custodians these days as a result of a combined wave of Arab-philia and modernism.

Regards

This post has been edited by Centurion: Oct 28 2006, 02:21 AM

[tangawizi]

I thought wayang kulit is Indonesian, it came from Java and Java is a freaking long way to Malaysia. I fu-king don't get you guys... Taking culture and land from another country. What, haven't you got one yourself?

Did u know that the UNESCO designated Wayang Kulit as a Masterpiece of Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity?

The wayang may be an Indonesian word for theater, but the puppets are based on mythological figures from the Indian epics such as the Mahabharata and the Ramayana.

If you wanna take an issue with Malaysians for copying the wayang kulit, the Indians might as well knock your Indonesian head as well for copying their mythologies! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[tangawizi]

The real tragedy is that the Malays themselves have killed off so much of their own culture because of the purist interpretation of Islam. The art of wayang kulit Malaysia has few custodians these days as a result of a combined wave of Arab-philia and modernism.

Regards

That observation is very true amongst my friends too.. that there is increasing conflict between fundamentalist interpretations of Islam and traditional Malay culture. Muslim practices should enrich the traditional Malay culture and traditions, but in the last few decades, because of political ascendency of the Iranian revolution, the idea that Islam can supplant the state as a governing system, there seems to be a creeping Arabization going on with our youths not just in Southeast Asia but in South Asia too (Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc..).

I am reading that elderly Malays are asking the state to preserve such cultural practices like the Wayang Kulit or Mak Yong dances. But the youths are increasingly looking to Middle Eastern Islamic culture for identity.

I notice when I was home that more young men are starting to wear turbans and grow beards. Arab words have replaced Malay words, like for example for prayer, salat, replaced the Malay word, sembahyang, which literally means "offer homage to the primal ancestor. Old heritage like the Wayang Kulit and the Mak Yong dance are banned or forced to perform in secret. I hear this complain from older folks, not just Malay muslims but peranakans as well.

The Older generation of folks are worried about the loss of these traditional arts and myths and asked why it is now fashionable to ban these cultural practices and adopt a foreign dress and habits and speech patterns from the Arabs.

In the past, the tudung was worn mainly by young girls, but now the older women (mothers) are also following suit to put on the tudung with their young daughters.

The latest thing arabic fashion I heard is that of a 'chaperone'. Now not only any encounters between the sexes must have a chaperone, it's beginning to be the fashion amongst certain asian muslim families that a male relative must travel with females just like the rule for women to travel in Saudi Arabia.

It is alarming that there is some loss of cultural compass. We ought to look into this politicization of our cultures and traditions and realize what is happening before it's too late. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

[forrestcat]

We do have an academy that teaches Malaysian Arts.It's even funded by our government.

http://www.ask.edu.my/BI/index.asp

Wayang Kulit course

http://www.ask.edu.my/BI/ak_course_dn_dtl.asp#04



This post has been edited by forrestcat: Oct 28 2006, 06:21 AM

[kelantanese]

wayang kulit used to be played in kelantan... where hundred years ago kelantan have to many kings that had their own kingdom, some from champa some from majapahit some from who knows till one of the king long yunus( i think from pattani ) conquer all the districts and become one state kelantan. maybe some district that under majapahit king that started to play wayang kulit in kelantan

[GluTTony]

this Kelanten one looks kinda....... umm what to say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlcDdOCKM58...ted&search=

Gak ada komen deh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

This post has been edited by GluTTony: Oct 28 2006, 07:54 AM

[Centurion]

forrestcat,
Good job on finding the courses on Malay traditional arts! I had no idea these existed.
Do you know how popular is the course intake?

p.s. why Astromantic dah bisu? Tak de counter, tak de apology. Only blast opinion then cabut lari? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Astromantic]

^
Actually I couldn't go online for the whole day. Maybe you're right, maybe Malaysia also has its own wayang kulit and other cultural stuff that we also have but why did this organization thing made some of them a patent of Malaysia's?

And for tangawizi, yes, the wayang kulits are based on the Indian epics but the puppets are our own originality and we did not copy their mythologies, they influenced it to us and it became a way of our lives too.

[swingdoctor]

^
Actually I couldn't go online for the whole day. Maybe you're right, maybe Malaysia also has its own wayang kulit and other cultural stuff that we also have but why did this organization thing made some of them a patent of Malaysia's?

And for tangawizi, yes, the wayang kulits are based on the Indian epics but the puppets are our own originality and we did not copy their mythologies, they influenced it to us and it became a way of our lives too.

My understanding is that the puppets they use in Indonesia and Malaysia are styled differently.

[triplex]

Does the fact that dian xin originates from China, make the Dim Sum in Hong Kong any less Hong Kong style?

Should the fact that uramaki (the inside out sushi) becoming popular in Southern California and thus re-Christened "California Roll" ban Japanese people from embracing the American adoption now as "Kashu-maki"?

You are probably annoyed because you look at things from a purist's point of view.
But assuredly, there is a Malay wayang kulit. And Malays do wear costumes other than a tudung. These may not be exclusively Malay. Other cultures may have such pretty artistic treasures too. Because the Malay and the Indonesians share a common history.
Since when has a Malay person ever claimed that Indonesians are VERY UNLIKE THEM or vice versa?

The real tragedy is that the Malays themselves have killed off so much of their own culture because of the purist interpretation of Islam. The art of wayang kulit Malaysia has few custodians these days as a result of a combined wave of Arab-philia and modernism.

Regards

that's what i wanna say.. is it wrong to claim wayang kulit our heritage, after all malay come from indo?? logically the culture will also brought with us.. as time goes by, the culture passes a few stages of evolution and become distinctive to a place/people.

we don't steal your culture..we just share the same culture..that's all.. is it so hard to understand??

This post has been edited by triplex: Oct 28 2006, 08:41 PM

[Majapahitans]

IMHO it's OK for if Indonesia and Malaysia to share our common heritage.
It shows our sophisticated culture with refined taste of art.
Doesn't imitation is the sincerest admiration...? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Afterall many ancestors of Malaysian are came from Indonesia, thus bring their cultural heritage.
Selat Malaka aren't that wide even for small boats..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif)

If you trace many Malaysian ancestors, they might be once Indonesian too, Malay from Sumatra; Minangkabau, Jambi, Riau or Palembang. Plus Javanese and Bugis and many more Indonesian.
Paramesvara, the founder of Malaka came from Sumatra.
Negeri Sembilan is dominated by Minangkabau people from West Sumatra.

Honestly as Indonesian I have mixed feeling about this issue
Proud..., but at the same time, sad and concerned.

I'm quite proud that some of our cultural heritage has influence beyond our national border.
But I'm also concerned how Malaysia is "packaging" and "selling" their art and culture just for the sake of tourism. Many of these cultural heritage are originated from Indonesia. Not the other way around.
Malaysia in their tourism promotion often labeled it as "original" Malaysian indigenious art. Without the courtesy to admit or mention it as also belonged to certain people of Indonesia.

Indonesia should do their homework on public relations in tourism to create the correct image that certain art and culture are Indonesian origin. Develop it and package it so Malaysia can not beat us in this cultural image development.

At least in Indonesia we have courtesy to mention the origin of each respected arts. It's well known for Indonesia that the art of Keris, Batik, and Wayang are Javanese origin, Satay from Madura. Even the variant also mentioned, like Batik Pekalongan, Batik Solo, etc.
About Wayang, the story maybe based on Indian mythology, but actually the art of puppetry is far older than Indian influence in Indonesia, during Neolithic period the native Indonesian already developed art of puppetry. That's why we have Semar and Punakawans (unknown in Indian mythology) as integral part of Wayang art. Semar is strongly suggested as a native pre-Indianized nature god.

Then again it's natural to influencing or being influenced in this archipelagic water continent.
Malaysia and Indonesia is the present political entity. The boundary is draw by British and Dutch......
In Srivijaya, Majapahit, Malacca, and Riau-Johor Melayu Sultanates, this border stretching along Malacca strait doesn't exist.

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Oct 29 2006, 10:53 AM

[Astromantic]

I just want to know how wayangs in Java can go to Malaysia which is a totally different kingdom back then (AFAIK).

[tangawizi]

I think the dalungs and their gamelan orchestras were a travelling troupe, and they went around the Indonesian and Malay Kingdoms whenever the sultans and elite noble families invited them to come and entertain the masses. That's how they became a beloved form of art and entertaiinment for the Malay kingdoms as well. What do u think of my theory?

Imagine how boring life would have been in the sultan's palaces and the towns and villages without such epic tales and oral histories being played out by these folks?

it's a shame we have lost communal entertainment. It sucks to be watching crap on TV in the solitude of your living room sofa.

[rasibiduk]

I just want to know how wayangs in Java can go to Malaysia which is a totally different kingdom back then (AFAIK).

Since there are a lot of Javanese immigrants as far back as the late 1800s in Johor, it is just normal to bring a piece of their culture to this foreign shore. Just like the wayang kulit in faraway Suriname. Also, I read somewhere that some sultans ages ago were given a gamelan set from Java as a gift, perhaps with wayang set included too.

[agentslayer]

They share the same language, ancestry and culture so why are you surprised there are great similarities between the two?

[triplex]

They share the same language, ancestry and culture so why are you surprised there are great similarities between the two?

that's true but there is still a barrier that separates indo n malay.. most indo think that malaysians steal their culture which we don't.. its kinda weird because we know the fact that most malays came from indo ancestry.. in terms of language, malay and indo are quite different..

we share the same language and culture, its just as simple as that.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[tangawizi]

Its like the split between Chinese and Japanese people? They shared the same ancestral heritage, and even their written language has same derivative. But they find much differences in their mentalities and behavior after so many centuries of separate development.

[Protoculture]

I thought wayang kulit is Indonesian, it came from Java and Java is a freaking long way to Malaysia. I fu-king don't get you guys... Taking culture and land from another country. What, haven't you got one yourself? Aren't you satisfied with the whole Malay, Chinese and Indian culture diversity? I've also discovered some of our (note: INDONESIAN's) dances and costumes were being taken by Malaysians and I saw it with my own eyes in the ASEAN cultural show here in the Netherlands, the Malaysians danced with Acehnese costume.

Wayang Kulit in Malaysia is native only to the East Coast of Peninsular Malaysia, most notably in Kelantan state & northern Trengganu.

The Malaysian Wayang Kulit shares similarities with South Thai's Malay Wayang Kulit (shadow puppet) given its close geographic location & same ethnicity.

Wayang Kulit in Malaysia served as a satire of everyday local folks lives, & given Muslim profiles had long veered away from Hinduistic elements, such as Mahabrata or Ramayana epics, unlike Indonesian wayang kulit that still embraced some of the storylines.

Malaysian cultures, especially that of Malays are a potpouri. Sure, some of the arts or even folk dances shared similarities & origin, but both Malaysia & Indonesia shared common history, ethnicities, cultures, languages, religion & so forth. So both countries have rights to claim ownership to the same art.

To say Wayang Kulit as an exclusive Indonesian art is foolhardy, as much as if Malaysia to claim Kuda Kepang as exclusively Malaysian identity.

I just want to know how wayangs in Java can go to Malaysia which is a totally different kingdom back then (AFAIK).

As I said above, Malaysian Wayang Kulit shared commonality with Southern Thai's shadow puppet shows (wayang kulit too, Thai version).

In fact, most Wayang Kulit characters used in Kelantan were made in South Thailand, & greatly prized.

Since there are a lot of Javanese immigrants as far back as the late 1800s in Johor, it is just normal to bring a piece of their culture to this foreign shore. Just like the wayang kulit in faraway Suriname.

Malaysian Wayang Kulit did not originated from Java. Instead, it shared commonality with Southern Thai's Wayang Kulit.

The only Javanese art visible in Johor culture due to Javanese immigrants in those late 1800s would be Kuda Kepang that has been recognised as part of Johor culture itself & need to be preserved.

Malaysian Wayang Kulit info from allmalaysia.info site<note: Only Wayang Kulit Siam (Siam means Thai) & Wayang Gedek (by Malaysian Thais) are still existed in Malaysia>

WAYANG KULIT

A spellbinding medium for storytelling, the Wayang Kulit is a traditional theatre form that brings together the playfulness of a puppet show, and the elusive quality and charming simplicity of a shadow play.

Its origin remains a mystery, though it appears to have a strong Javanese and Hindu influence. Today, it is spread out, in various forms and guises, across Asia - from Turkey and China to Indonesia and of course, Malaysia.

Here, it is most popular in the East Coast of Peninsular Malaysia, particularly in Kelantan, the heartland of Wayang Kulit, where it took root more than 250 years ago. Today, however, urbanisation and modern entertainment have led to a decline in its popularity.

There used to be four main varieties of the form in this country: the Wayang Kulit Siam of Kelantan; the Wayang Gedek, performed by the Thai communities of Kedah and Perlis; the Wayang Kulit Jawa, performed by the Javanese communities in Selangor and Johor; and the Wayang Kulit Melayu, performed by the Javanese communities of Terengganu. Today, only the first two are performed.

All of the varieties of this unique theatre form employ the principle of light and shadow to bring to life its characters, depicted by intricately carved puppets. The flat two-dimensional puppets are carved, then painted, by hand out of cow or buffalo hide.

Each puppet, a stylised exaggeration of the human shape, is given a distinctive appearance and not unlike its string puppet cousins, has jointed "arms". There may be as many as 40 puppet characters, all with different traits and mannerisms, in a performance.

One man is responsible for breathing life into this array of characters: the master puppeteer and storyteller known as the Tok Dalang.

The task of the Tok Dalang requires immense skill and endurance, for not only does he control the movements of the puppets, he also has to provide each one with a distinguishable voice, and at times, to sing, all while "conducting" the accompanying traditional music ensemble by tapping a rattle (known as the kechrek) with his feet.

During a typical performance, which can last several few hours, the Tok Dalang sits behind a semi-transparent white cloth which acts as a screen. The puppet figures are silhouetted onto the screen with an oil lamp as the light source.

The stories of the wayang kulit are traditionally based on the Hindu epics of the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. Usually, the Tok Dalang begins by introducing the main characters; first the puppet storyteller, followed by Maharaja Wana (Rawana), Sri Rama (Rama), Siti Dewa (Sita), the Laksamana and the court jesters, Pak Dogol and Wak Long.

Then he tells the story by moderating his voice, and controlling the varied movements, to suit each and every character. For instance, the gruff-voiced demon king Maharaja Wana moves erratically and aggressively, while the court jesters scratch their heads and speak in shrill voices.

The shadow play is invariably accompanied by a gamelan orchestra, one that consists of about 10 to 30 musicians.

Traditionally, the Wayang Kulit is staged during religious festivals and important occasions, such as weddings, births and circumcision. Primarily, it was taken as an entertainment medium. However, it also served to impart moral values, as well as to pass down folklore and historical tales.

Like many other art forms in Malaysia, it was believed to have strong ties to the spirit world. It used to be customary to make food offerings to the spirits during and after a performance, but this practice is now frowned upon.

In fact, in 1990, when the conservative political party Parti SeIslam Malaysia (PAS) came into power in Kelantan, the staging of Wayang Kulit was prohibited altogether, for its un-Islamic elements.

However, the practitioners of this dying art form have adapted, ensuring its continuous survival. Today, a new brand of Wayang Kulit has emerged. Instead of the traditional tale of Hikayat Sri Rama - the Malay adaptation of the Hindu epic Ramayana - the stories now are based on local folklore, history, popular comedies, current issues and secular tales.

Even the traditional forms of the puppets have evolved. The new puppets can take up any role unlike the original puppets which are fixed characters. Also, modern elements such as buildings and cars have been incorporated.

To keep up with the times, today's Tok Dalangs do not only use the Kelantanese dialect but also mainstream Bahasa Malaysia, a few English words, the occasional Bollywood song, and even familiar tunes from TV serials to spice up their performance. The best thing is they always improvise as they perform, so audiences don't get a fixed dialogue or narration with every show.

All their efforts have not gone to waste. The "modernisation" of the Wayang Kulit has since changed the minds of the Kelantan State Government which has since lifted the ban. The art form is slowly picking up again but whether it would achieve the same kind of recognition as in days gone by remains to be seen.

[rasibiduk]

^

yes, the Kelantanese style Wayang Kulit is closer in style to the Thai version, but that picture in question is indeed a Javanese wayang.

This post has been edited by rasibiduk: Oct 30 2006, 12:44 AM