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Was Rajah Lapu-Lapu A Muslim Or Hindu?, what was his faith?
Was Rajah Lapu-Lapu a Muslim or Hindu?
Was Rajah Lapu-Lapu a Muslim or Hindu?
Muslim [ 17 ] ** [70.83%]
Hindu [ 7 ] ** [29.17%]
Total Votes: 35
  
bisaya
post Dec 12 2006, 04:41 AM
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Yes, right vynncute!

they accepted the spanish catholic faith because the visayans thought they were worshipping the same anito. when the spaniards gave them the image of the Holy Child. it looks the same as their anito and the belief about a God(divine)-child that is a mediator between the supreme god and man is not new to them who believe in a child diety who mediates between the supreme god and man. so dont be surprised if they have so much devotion to the Santo NiŮo. the devotion has its connection to the ancient religion. it was only later where they realized the two are different but they were able to somehow make the compromise by mixing the old and the new. the ancestral spirits are still very much alive among the visayans. they are what we now call engkantos or nature spirits while the one that is recognize as the supreme God is the God of christianity.

i revieved this old thread in response to the statement of a certain POLVORON who insist that he is right by saying:

QUOTE
Dude Lapu Lapu was Muslim.....majority of Visayas was muslim...its so obvious.
U ever wonder why Manny Pacquiao is so admired by Muslim rebels??? because they think he has Moro blood running in his vains because they believe that all visayans were once Muslim.
If Spanish never came Philippines would be like Indonesia (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)


here is the link: http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...9003&st=100

let the muslims believe what they want to believe but if we are to be truthful about our history. the accounts are clear from the oral history of the natives (visayan) corroborated by the accounts of the spaniards and the oral history of the lumads who lived east of mindanao.

it is not surprising to know that the oral history of the visayans are very similar to those of the lumads because they may have been from one group who took separated and split into 2 groups, one group (the lumads, the ancestors\' of vynncute) fled to the east, to took refuge in the mountain ranges east of mindanao (misamis, bukidnon, davao), while the other group (our ancestors, the visayan) fled to the north and seek the protection of the sea. they took advantage of the natural barriers (the big mountains and the sea) that separated them from the advancing muslim power in the south.
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Jc2
post Dec 12 2006, 08:02 AM
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I think Lapulapu only adopted some Hindu and/or Islamic influence but he didn't converted fully to either religions.
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Ek-ek
post Dec 12 2006, 10:36 AM
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Lapu-lapu is a Muslim his undocumented name is Calip Kulapu
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Najjiah
post Dec 12 2006, 12:00 PM
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i think he was hindu. the word "mukha" is even a sanskrit word meaning "to face". its another forgotten aspect of our culture.
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garouga
post Dec 12 2006, 02:02 PM
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Yea he was most likely Hindu. Even the god of the ancient Tagalogs, Bathala, is derived from Batara Guru (supreme deity/teacher), and is another name for the Hindu deity Shiva.
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bisaya
post Dec 12 2006, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE(Ek-ek @ Dec 12 2006, 11:36 PM) [snapback]2563761[/snapback]

Lapu-lapu is a Muslim his undocumented name is Calip Kulapu


you say undocumented. so it would still need a non-sulu source to corroborate that claim.

as for his being a non-muslim, the fact is supported by the visayan oral history, the oral history of the lumads in mindanao and the spanish accounts on the journey of magellan.

it all fits into the puzzle. because the lumads and the visayans might have been kin at one time who took separate ways, one group fled to the mountains east of mindanao, another group fled to the islands in the visayas. their oral history is similar because they both have the same reason why they had to flee from the south.
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Mulawin
post Dec 12 2006, 10:06 PM
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Datu Lapulapu is either an animist (native Filipino religion lost through time) or muslim...

and just beacuse hes wearing a loincloth doesnt mean hes japanese...most tribal people usually wear loincloths...but hes upper body clothing is of Arab origin, literally...

my 2 factual cents..


QUOTE(Datu Mandub @ Aug 22 2006, 08:47 AM) [snapback]2206563[/snapback]

Correct, before Islam came to the Archipelago via Tawi-Tawi in the 14th century there was a Hindu influence among the natives where you can find titles like Raja (ruler) and Datu (chieftain).....

Lapu-Lapu is a Tausug. It is said that his skin are red or tanned (Pula-pula), some legends suggest scaly like the fish Lapu-Lapu. Raja Solaiman is a subordinate of the Sultan of Sulu, therefore, when the Spanish came in 1521 some parts of the islands are already converted to Islam....so....it is not correct that some native Muslims at that time has no form of writing since the Arab missionaries (Abu Bakr/ Shariful Hashim) already brought the Holy Qur'an and influence the natives of the Agama Islam (religion). As early as the 15th century the Sultans of Sulu are bearing seals with Arabic inscriptions.

By the way, in ancient times the Visaya is a word used by Tausug meaning slaves. When slaves escaped during that time they usually settled on the Islands what we now called Visayas.

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bisaya
post Dec 12 2006, 10:48 PM
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http://www.geocities.com/rolborr/lapulapu.html

according to research lapulapu is a waray. he is Kali Pulaku (the Red Sword) or BagaSumbol (like the feathered ornament/symbol of victory) but whether waray or sugbuanon, one thing is sure he is a visayan whose ancestors came from the south and established an independent kingdom in the visayas.

http://mvphilippines.hypermart.net/filipinos.htm

QUOTE
The first foreigner to describe a native of the Philippines was Antonio Pigafetta, the chronicler who accompanied Ferdinand Magellan on his voyage, and in 1521 found himself in what we know as the Vasayas. He described the people as pintados, the painted ones, because their bodies instead of being covered with clothing was largely covered with tattoos. All men were tattooed from ankle to chest, warriors on the breast and back as well, with the bravest and boldest bearing still more designs from chin to ear to eye. Some were bearded while others had no facial hair. They were well-built, as tall as the Spaniards, and though most were naked they wore small palm-leaf hats. Their long black hair reached to their waist and was tied at the back. Some wore G-strings beneath which their skin showed lighter and was without tattoo.

Women had tattoos only on the hands, either one or both hands decorated in designs executed with exceedingly fine lines reminiscent of damask or embroidery. They, too, were mostly naked, although some wore a narrow strip of bark cloth thin as paper to cover their privies. They were good-looking, delicately formed with exceedingly black hair worn loose, hanging quite down to the ground. The women were lighter of skin than the men because while the men worked outdoors, the women spent their time indoors weaving mats, baskets and other household items from palm leaves.


This post has been edited by bisaya: Dec 12 2006, 10:52 PM
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vynncute
post Dec 12 2006, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE(bisaya @ Dec 12 2006, 07:48 PM) [snapback]2565304[/snapback]

http://www.geocities.com/rolborr/lapulapu.html

according to research lapulapu is a waray. he is Kali Pulaku (the Red Sword) or BagaSumbol (like the feathered ornament/symbol of victory) but whether waray or sugbuanon, one thing is sure he is a visayan whose ancestors came from the south and established an independent kingdom in the visayas.

http://mvphilippines.hypermart.net/filipinos.htm



BAY WA JUD TAY MAHIMO ANI, HIMUUN JUD NILANG MUSLIM SI LAPU-LAPU,

MGA AMAW GAYOOOOOD! thumbsdown.gif
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bisaya
post Dec 13 2006, 04:12 AM
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hehehe..

kay gihimo man gani nilag muslim tanan tao sa pilipinas. kay ila gyud daw ning pilipinas sa wala pa ang mga kastila. di ta sugot ana oi kay di mana tinuod. nagsakripisyo gud ato katiguwangan aron maipamana sa ato ang karaan na mga pamaagi human angkunon lang nila ang tanan na ilaha pati ning mga yutaa. icon_smile.gif

they also claim that sulayman of rajah sulayman is muslim. they failed to see that there is an ancient word that is still being use in samar. the word "Sulay" meaning "hindrance". that is where the sugbuanon word for "test" or "trial" originates (e.g. mga pagSULAY, SULAYi lang). because before one could approach the chieftain they would first pass a series of hindrances mga "pagsulay" to test them if they are worthy of the honor of being close to the chieftain. the samarnon word "pakaSULAY MAN" or shortened to an expression "SULAY MAN" means "to be a hindrance".

SULAYMAN would mean "one who is a hindrance" or "one that hinders you" (i.e. a power to contend with), our rajah and datus dont have islamic names instead they used our local languages in their names.

take for example Rajah Bangkaw. "Bangkaw" is the local word for "bamboo spear" used for hunting wild boar.

Kolambo (rajah kolambo) probably comes from the word for the "net" used in trapping and capturing the wild animals that they hunt. that is why mosquito nets are known as "kolambo". the name "kolambo" could mean "someone who is like a net that trap his enemies."

although there is also a very small possiblity that it was influenced by the name of the ottoman suleiman 1 that ruled just about the same time (1520-1566). or maybe it was from the muslim word for solomon. it was on 1565 where spaniard mentioned about a muslim settlement in manila. co-ruled by a rajah matanda and a rajah soleiman. but take note that the ottoman muslim suleiman was called a sultan but this sulayman in manila was called a rajah. and he was only a co-ruler.

the same happened in sulu where a muslim sultanate was established during the 1450s and the ruler Shari'ful Hashem Syed Abu Bakr, an Arab born in Johore, renamed himself "Paduka Maulana Mahasari Sharif SULTAN Hashem Abu Bakr".

This post has been edited by bisaya: Dec 13 2006, 04:50 AM
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azrach187
post Dec 13 2006, 04:48 AM
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Lemme see... I guess my antropological discipline might be put in play here. Since we are talking about titles here, it isn't a surefire way to categorize somebody as any given religion/creed due to a title given to him.

Case in point: the word "chief" tend to be used as the big man of the Native American tribe before it was understood that "chief" isn't usually the big man of the tribe per se, only a representative, since most American Indian tribes have an elder council as the governing body and "chief" merely represent their decisions. It is known now that each tribe have different heads, and "chief" might just be the spiritual advisor, priest, faith healer, or even a defacto leader for settling disputes with the federal authorities.

My point is this. The Filipino word Ginoo was originally used to classify a stature that would be close to being elite or honored. Nowadays we use it to denote Gentlemen. The word Hefe is Spanish in nature that have traditions pointing to the military-governor of the city in Spanish Philippines. Nowadays, Hefe (chief) is thrown around like candies on Christmas.

And my favorite, the word Filipino/Filipina means a Spanish citizen born in the Philipines, but now is used to denote citizens of the Philippines, wherto, the word indios were used to denote natives during the Spanish era.

So the technicality of Rajah or Datu is subjective, which means from whatever history you are looking at the speaker might be refering to his own accepted standard.

We might call another religion's leader as Pari even though he isn't actually a priest, but we know he is equal to our own version of being a priest or a leader of a religious sect, which does not mean he is Catholic, only a religious leader.

Another thing to understand about the Islam practice of the early Millenium is that (as it is today) it isn't uniformed. Which means that by the time it reached Philippines, the religion might have entered animism, which is the localization or mixing of local superstitions/belief of a foreign religion. Just look at Catholism in the Philippines, penitensya is a localization.

This post has been edited by azrach187: Dec 13 2006, 04:52 AM
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Ilonggo
post Dec 13 2006, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE
sulu may have an oral history that claims that lapulapu is a muslim but that was only a claim, when lapulapu successfully killed magellan and drive the spaniards away,, his achievement became known and he became famous througout the archipelago. and soon many are already claiming kinship to the man who was hailed as hero of his time.

here is one of the accounts that is more accurate in presenting facts.

http://www.docepares.net/ekarnishistory.html



it's interesting that you're quoting mang diony's claim. incidentally, i'm familiar with doce pares, and there are just too many myths sorrounding this eskrima style; so much so that i won't rely too much on any of the old canete's claim. i realize you're proud to be bisaya, but sometimes, nationalism tends to give someone the tunnel vision.

QUOTE
the sulu accounts claim that lapulapu is muslim partly because some accounts says he is called "kalipula" and they say "kali" comes from "caliph" but they failed to see that "Kali" is a type of broad sword still popular among the Filipinos particularly those in the southern part of the country including the Muslim provinces. take note, it says including. which means not all who use it are muslims. it was already a popular weapon that was used by people whether muslim or lumads


very ironic statement, pare. kali or kalis is the local parlance of what we know as kris, in the tausug tonque, who incidentally are muslims.

QUOTE
"kalipula" could mean "red sword". meaning lapulapu already fought many battles and killed all his enemies


in this one, you just mixed a bahasa sug and tagalog word, lol.
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Ilonggo
post Dec 13 2006, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE
lapu lapu may be a tausug but definitely not a muslim. the local accounts about lapulapu showed that he is not islamic. he had tattooes all ovcer his body and he did not worship allah. his ancestors like those in the other islands fled from the south to the north(visayas) because they dont want to become muslim.


could you please show me a link or source of this? about him having tattoos all over his body? if you're basing this on manuel panares's painting, then i have to say that the painting was the artist's interpretation, and not necessarily an accurate representation of history. also, how could he be a tausug and not a muslim at that point in time? btw, FYI, bahasa sug is related to the Visayan variety spoken in Surigao...
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bisaya
post Dec 13 2006, 10:08 PM
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the chronicles of the spaniards described the inhabitants of the visayas as painted people covered with tattoos. and yes, the tausug language is related to the waray language, "siki" for example is waray for feet. even "surat" for "letter". words like "Tausug" derives from "tau" meaning "man" and "suug" meaning "current," and translates into "people of the current." "suug" for "current" is called "sulug" in visayan. it is where the word "sinulog" comes from.

i am sugbuanon as well as a waray. i know the language too. but just because tausug language is related to waray doesnt automatically mean they are muslims. because it was clear they came from the south. just because urdu is related to hindi doesnt automatically makes the pakistanis hindu. and if i may also add. the pakistanis were once known as indians and before pakistan was born the land was known as india. so pakistanis come from india. if we go by your logic, they are indians. so, how could how could they (the muslims) be indians and not hindus?

what tagalog are you speaking of? kali or pula? kali comes from the sanskrit word kali. and pula is not tagalog, the visayan word for "red" is "pula"

The Sword and the Flute--Kali and Krsna

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/1293001.html

QUOTE

Kali (Sanskrit: काली) (Pronounced /kɑːliː/) is a goddess with a long and complex history in Hinduism (although sometimes presented in the West as dark and violent)...
Kali is a feminine form of the Sanskrit word "kala," meaning "time". It also means "black".


Kali is associated with the sword. hence "kali" was later used as the word for "sword". much like the word "gay" in the past means "high-spirited" or "merry". but it is now more popularly known not for being "merry" or "high-spirited". it has now taken the meaning "homosexual". telling a man "Hey Joe, you are very gay." might not be that good for your health. you might get your as kicked.

if you notice "Kali" is feminine and "Kala" is the masculine form. if you try substitution, "Kali Pulaku" would now be "Kala Pulaku". and if you say it with a fast heavy accent like those of the waray, "Kala Pulaku" would sound much like "k'Lapulaku" or "Lapulapu".

another reason why the pre-hispanic visayans are not muslims is the fact that they have been having enmity with muslim pirates/raiders from the south who have been plundering their coastal towns and villages. that is why when the spaniards came they found an ally who would help them fight the muslim pirates by helping them build strong forts and supply them with weapons like cannons. they found something in common. the spaniards were not friends with the moors, while the visayas were also experiencing problems with the muslim pirates from the south.

QUOTE
Constant attacks from Moro pirates in the southern coast of Iloilo persisted even during the pre-hispanic era. In response, the people of Guimbal built 5 watchtowers located in different sites along the shoreline area in the poblacion in the 17th century.
These Moro Watchtowers were built to watch the coast of Guimbal from possible marauders


http://www.exploreiloilo.com/category/iloi...ovince/guimbal/

we hear the same stories from many parts of the visayas.

this is also an evidence that visayas was not under sulu...

QUOTE
By the way, in ancient times the Visaya is a word used by Tausug meaning slaves. When slaves escaped during that time they usually settled on the Islands what we now called Visayas.


because if it was under sulu, why would slaves escaped to the visayas, and risked being captured by visayan rulers under sulu and sent back to their masters to be prosecuted or even executed.

another possibility why those who "escaped" are called slaves is because non-muslims are said to be below the muslims. so they are considered slaves. thus the koran states:

QUOTE

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Qur'an 9:29:


it was the preservation of their ancient ways that forced them to leave the south and settle in the visayas. the imposition of heavy taxes on those who practise the old ways would also be one reason why they had to escape. one accounts even mentioned clearly that it was the "tyranny" of their brothers that prompted them to leave the south to established their own settlements in the visayas.

languages is what i'm very interested in. and that is what i have been studying for years. and so i am familiar with a lot of words and their origins. especailly the visayan languages. language also showed their culture, beliefs and their influences.

by the way, i'm also familiar with surigaonon language. it shares lots of vocabulary with the waray and the sugbuanon. but while the waray call old people "lagas" surigaonon call them "tiguyang" and the sugbuanon call them "tigulang" or "tiguwang". but almost all languages within the area are related if you know the language you would have clearly notice it. take for example word like "pula", surigaonon says "puya na bayay" while the waray and sugbuanon say "pula na balay". "nagyaot man wayong mo" would be "nagraot man nawong mo" and "nagmaot man nawng mo". "waya" would be wala, waray, waay, wa and so on... depending on where you are.

This post has been edited by bisaya: Dec 14 2006, 03:08 AM
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Ilonggo
post Dec 14 2006, 06:07 AM
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much respect to your heritage, bro. i myself, if i go all the way to my grandparents, would be an ilocano-waray(mom side) ilonggo (father side), even tho i was born in manila. im proud to be from the middle islands myself, ergo my name, and i'm very much aware of the piratical activities of the moros in the early days. when i lived in iloilo, i remember seeing a bell tower in jaro. only when i went back recently did it all make sense, after going back to my roots and learning our history from a different perspective and without bias. after being away for so long, not as much as to educate myself, but to pass on to my kids that are naive of their filipino heritage.

but the thing is, being away from the homeland, i tend to look at philippines as a whole, rather than a bunch of separated island, with separate identity. im not gonna deny that there are differences tho. in my personal opinion, these differences are what separates the tribes of the old. it's a part of their identity that helps them retain the knowledge of the old people. a good example would be my kids. yes, they are born and bred americans. but at the same time, they can't hide the fact that they are part filipino as well, and with that, being proud of that part of their heritage, they can in turn tell their kids about grandpa's origin, a small country on the other side of the world. if they would just claim themselves as americans, and learn american history, then in essence, their filipino root is dead.

going back to the subject of this thread; the original person was asking whether lapulapu was a hindu or a muslim. tho we may never know for sure, but there are strong evidence that da Man was a tausug, therefore a muslim. you mentioned:

QUOTE
another reason why the pre-hispanic visayans are not muslims is the fact that they have been having enmity with muslim pirates/raiders from the south who have been plundering their coastal towns and villages. that is why when the spaniards came they found an ally who would help them fight the muslim pirates by helping them build strong forts and supply them with weapons like cannons.


could it be that's another good reason why Humabon has so much contempt over Lapulapu; so much so that he would use a total stranger to help him rid of the rajah of mactan once and for all? here's a link that might interest you. i'm really leaning to this theory about the beginning of our very own martial art...

http://cebueskrima.s5.com/rapid.html


gumagalang
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bisaya
post Dec 14 2006, 08:36 AM
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i also looked at the philippines as a whole that is why i have to explore it and learn not just about visayans but about aetas, ilokanos, and even the lumads and tausugs. even living among them when possible.

you might think im creating division. no im not, i'm just proclaiming the truth about our history. you have your research and i have my own research from my travels and works with communities gathering tales and legends, learning their languages and whatever might shed light on our identity. i believe that i should add my share, giving people informations from my research. so later people can use it and make further research on the subject.

when i say something about our country's sysytem, it is not to destroy our country or divide it. it is in order to open our eyes and take a look at it. "pahimatngon" that is what it is. another is "kamatuoran" or the truth.

raja humabon and raja lapulapu were constantly fighting for control of that small island (mactan) that is a rich trading post and the cebu-mactan channel that is a good trade route among inhabitants of the archipelago.

i wasnt that interested with eskrima. because i was aware of the many legend that surrounds it. in fact i do not believe the legend that the other inhabitants of the visayas came from the group of the 10 bornean datus. i am well aware of the other legends because many stories and oral history abounds in the entire visayas. so we have to study other sources that would corroborate such claims. even sulu claims lapulapu is their very own. but one thing is for sure. the word "kali" exist and it is a sanskit word that is associated with the sword. but association with the tausug or the tausug language doesnt always mean the person is muslim because i can also cite the many examples that the visayan language is also very related to chamorro. but just because it is related to chamorro doesnt mean people here are chamorro. and there are chamorro words that are also related to tausug. so are the chamorros also tausug? "tau" is "man" or "people" for tausug the chamorro are also using the same word "taotao" which mean "people". malay "orang-orang". also the tausug do not have exclusive claim to the word "kali" for they too were influenced by the hindu religion before islam reached their sulu. and we might even find out one day that lapulapu is really chamorro or maybe a polynesian. icon_smile.gif

we also have strong evidence that he is not a muslim even if presumiing he is a tausug and came from sulu. but didnt tausug call the "escaped slaves" visayans? it is a stronger evidence that suggest the existence of a refuge in the visayas for the practice of the old religion (non-muslim) away from the muslim rulers.

QUOTE
It is said that his skin are red or tanned (Pula-pula),


the statement above would even suggest that "k'lapulaku" would be a very possible name because "kala" also means "black" and "pula" means "red". in visayan language "black" can also means "dark" and "pula" doesnt always mean "red" it is also use to mean "brown" (e.g. pula na asukar / brown sugar)

http://www.thefreeman.com/lifestyle/story-20030112-894.html

http://thefreeman.com/lifestyle/index.php?...119&id=1103

This post has been edited by bisaya: Dec 14 2006, 09:24 AM
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maharlika
post Dec 14 2006, 01:14 PM
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Incomplete approach. Polytheist with shamanistic and animistic tendecies should be included in the question.
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vynncute
post Dec 14 2006, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE(maharlika @ Dec 14 2006, 10:14 AM) [snapback]2570014[/snapback]

Incomplete approach. Polytheist with shamanistic and animistic tendecies should be included in the question.


????????????????? confused.gif
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bisaya
post Dec 14 2006, 10:46 PM
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http://www.royalsulu.com/history.htm

QUOTE
In Mindanao in the southern part of the Philippines, there were three major sultanates founded and organized by missionaries believed to have come from Arabia or Malaysia. They were the Sultanate of Sulu, Sultanate of Maguindanao and the Sultanate of Buayan.


those 3 sultanates are in west mindanao.

QUOTE
In June of 1658, the Brunei Sultan Abdul Hakkul Mubin awarded the northeast coast of Borneo (Sabah) including Palawan to the Sultan of Sulu, for helping settle a civil war dispute against Pengeran Bongsu Muhyuddin. Thus, the Sultan of Sulu owned Sabah since then up to now.


borneo was given to sulu only in 1658.

QUOTE
The dominions of the Sultanate of Sulu extended over Sulu, Tawi Tawi, Basilan, Palawan, Zamboanga and Sabah (North Borneo).


the dominion of sulu is also limited to the western part of mindanao island (e.g. zamboanga).

the above are some important information that would shed light on the issue of lapulapu and the visayans.

lapulapu was not a "caliph" under sulu and he may not even be a tausug. from the local oral history and legends, it is said that at the end of his life, he is said "to go back to the bosom of his family in Borneo". but in local parlance "to go back to the bosom of his family" can also mean "to die" or "sail away to the land of the ancestors". and it has not been denied that lapulapu and all visayans had their origin from the south from the hindu sri vijayan and majapahit empire which includes the island of borneo.

from oral history even from those gathered in the 1970's in mactan and cebu, the research found stories such as those below...

QUOTE
in Cebuano folklore, a knee wound inflicted during the battle of Mactan had made Lapulapu weaker.


QUOTE

the Bayok Aginid records that five months after the battle of Mactan, Lapulapu sought Humabonís help in outfitting his boat that would return him to the bosom of his family in Borneo, accompanied by three wives, eleven children and only twenty servants.


but...

QUOTE
The tales about Lapulapu have unearthed a circle of names related to him, among them: Datu Manggal, his father; Matang Mantaunas, his mother; Malingin or Mingming, his daughter; Bulakna, his wife; and Sawili, his son. There are as well a number of chieftains aside from Zula, the only other chieftain of Mactan named by Pigafetta. All of these other chieftains possess some supernatural object or amulet, usually a mutya, and their names already tell us of their distinctive powers: Bali Alho, ruler of Maribago, could break pestles; Tindak Bukid, ruler of Marigondon, could kick mountains; Sagpang-Baha could slap the mouth of a river; Bugto Pasan, who could break thick vines easily; and Datu Umindig, champion wrestler second only to Lapulapu. All of these chieftains believed that Lapulapu possessed supernatural powers because of Manggalís anting-anting. This is in contrast to the sacrificing leaders of the revolution against Spain, like the Leon Kilat of legend, who had to undergo trials before gaining his desire: mutya sa saging tindok.


the above shows that his family is in mactan, not in borneo. but his ancestors are from borneo. so when he was to "die" he has to join his spirit to the spirits of the ancestors. so it is said that he "would return to the bosom of his family in Borneo." to join his spirit to the spirits of his ancestors. just like saying "he is going to heaven to meet his grandparents." it is something common for people here to avoid using the word "death" or "die" (i.e. patay, mamatay) instead the word used is "panaw" (to go away, to go to somewhere), "janao" or "yanao" in chamorro. that is why the word "ang mamatay ng dahil sayo." is not in most of the visayan versions of the anthem. instead it was translated into "Kun mamatay man". "Kun" or "Kung" means "IF". the old religion was obsessed with immortality. souls of great warriors are said to become the guardian spirits protecting the ancestral heritage.
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Ilonggo
post Dec 15 2006, 06:11 AM
Post #60


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bisaya,

seems like you're firm on your belief, going as far as picking and choosing sentences from different sources. kinda like if i don't believe in jesus christ, i would quote matthew 11:16 saying the word "jesus", then go to mark 12:12 because it says "does not" then jump to luke 20:20 and pick the word "exist", so now i have my proof saying "jesus... does not...exist".

it's odd that the majority of the sources you've provided points to him being a moro, and yet your adamant that he's not a moro of origin but rather, he's hindu. is there a reason behind this? i mean if he was indeed moro, so what? does that take anything from the fact that he repel those invaders?
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