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Muslim Mob
Wulandari
post Nov 17 2006, 10:27 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5205328.stm


QUOTE
Malaysia faith forum to defy mob


By Jonathan Kent
BBC News, Kuala Lumpur

Campaigners for more religious freedom in Malaysia plan to go ahead with a meeting on Saturday, weeks after a mob broke up a similar gathering.

A group of NGOs, known as Article 11, is pushing for Malaysia to honour constitutional guarantees enabling all citizens to practise their faith.

Relations between Malaysia's Muslim majority and members of other faiths have become increasingly strained.

Matters were brought to a head by a recent series of court cases.

In the most controversial case, an Islamic court ruled that a Hindu man be given a Muslim burial against the wishes of his family after Islamic religious authorities presented evidence that he had converted.

Mob threat

Faced with such rulings and amid concerns that Islamists are trying to impose their values on the country, a number of civic groups have banded together with the stated aim of defending Malaysia's constitution.

They say the constitution is secular and allows Malaysians to profess and practise the faith of their choosing.

The group has championed the cases of Muslims who have fought to leave their faith.

In turn, some Muslims are worried that their religion is under threat.


Some have accused Article 11 of being part of an attempt to undermine Islam's place as Malaysia's official religion.

A mob of 500 ethnic Malay Muslims forcibly stopped Article 11's last forum on Penang Island in May.

The group says it intends to go ahead with the meeting in the southern city of Johor Baru on Saturday and hopes that any protests will be peaceful.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia...fic/5205328.stm

Published: 2006/07/22 00:54:08 GMT

BBC MMVI




If Muslims believe Islam is the real religion, why they are so afraid if Muslims will convert to become non Muslims?

There is something wrong with Islam

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HangPC2
post Nov 17 2006, 11:42 PM
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nih lagi satu mamat tak paham-paham.....
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Wulandari
post Nov 17 2006, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Nov 18 2006, 12:42 AM) [snapback]2491844[/snapback]

nih lagi satu mamat tak paham-paham.....





confused.gif

Are you a Muslim, my dear?

Please speak up clearly. Don't be afraid !

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Bhaskara
post Nov 18 2006, 01:50 AM
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So in Malaysia, Muslims can't convert to other religion?I'm sorry, but that is SO wrong!We have this thing called "Human Rights", if u haven't heard of it. It includes the freedom of religiousity!

If you are a muslim, and believe that Islam is the truth, u shouldnt feel threatened by muslim who wishes to convert. It's their loss, right?
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Suijen
post Nov 18 2006, 01:52 AM
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Here's a news article by the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/cros...nts/6150340.stm

QUOTE
Abandoning Islam for Christianity is such a sensitive issue in Malaysia that many converts find themselves leading a secret, double life.

Malaysian Muslims pray behind of the Koran during a special morning prayer at the National Mosque in Kuala Lumpur
Malay-Muslims make up 60% of the country's population
"If people know that I've converted to Christianity, they might take the law into their own hands. If they are not broadminded, they might take a stone and throw it at me."

Maria - not her real name - is a young Malaysian woman who has lived a secret and sometimes fearful life since she converted from Islam to Christianity.

Apostasy, as it is known, has become one of the most controversial issues in Malaysia today.

Maria became a Christian over a decade ago when she was 18. She says no-one forced her to convert, that she made the decision after studying different religious texts.


And, even now, the church she attends asked her to sign a declaration stating the church is not responsible for her conversion.

"My church says if the authorities come, they are not going to stand up for me. I have to stand up for myself," she said.

Not even Maria's family know she has converted.

"If my family find out I am no longer a Muslim they will completely cut me off. That means my name in the family will be erased.

"I could migrate, but the problem is I want to stay in Malaysia, because this is my country. And I love my family. I just want to live peacefully."

Heated debate

Malay-Muslims make up 60% of Malaysia's population. The rest are mostly Christians, Hindus and Buddhists.

But many Malaysian Muslims believe that people like Maria pose a threat to Islam.

And the debate between those who say Maria should have the right to officially convert, and those who are against apostasy has become so heated that the prime minister has asked both sides not to discuss sensitive religious questions in public.


She is very aware of the possible consequences of her decision to become a Christian if she is discovered.

"If the authorities find out, I will be in big trouble. They will create hell between me and my family, and hell in my life so that I will no longer get any privileges or employment."

Her fears are not unfounded. Another convert - Lina Joy - has been forced to go into hiding since her case went to court.

And at least one of the lawyers involved in that case has had a death threat against him.


That means changing the identity cards that state they are Muslim.

Until now, the state has refused to do this until an apostasy order is granted from the Sharia court.

But both women claim they are no longer Muslim, so why should they go to the Sharia court?

For Maria there is a lot at stake. She has a boyfriend who is also a Christian and knows she is too.

The couple want to get married. But while Maria is still officially a Muslim, the only way they could wed in Malaysia would be if he converted to Islam.

And Maria's family - unhappy with her choice of partner - are pressuring him to do just that.

Crucial time

Maria is tired of living a double life.

"It's very frustrating," she tells us tearfully. "It means I have to limit my scope with friends.

"I have to be able to completely trust someone before I dare to reveal myself.

"I know some other secret converts, but I never keep in touch with them.

"I can't let my network widen, because you don't always know who you are dealing with."


I feel that I am all alone in this struggle
Maria
Only a tiny number of people have converted from Islam in Malaysia.

But the coming months will be crucial for them because a decision is expected in the case of Lina Joy.

The outcome of that case may well determine whether Maria will be able to live the life she dreams of - to be married to her boyfriend and live openly as a Christian.

Right now she can't imagine it.

"I feel that I am all alone in this struggle," she says, "and I am frightened because I am alone against the odds."

Crossing Continents was broadcast on Thursday, 16 November 2006, at 1102 GMT.

The programme will be repeated on Monday, 20 November 2006 at 2030 GMT.
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Wulandari
post Nov 18 2006, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE(Bhaskara @ Nov 18 2006, 02:50 AM) [snapback]2492069[/snapback]

So in Malaysia, Muslims can't convert to other religion?I'm sorry, but that is SO wrong!We have this thing called "Human Rights", if u haven't heard of it. It includes the freedom of religiousity!

If you are a muslim, and believe that Islam is the truth, u shouldnt feel threatened by muslim who wishes to convert. It's their loss, right?





Human Rights in Islam ?

Freedom of Religiousity?

You must be kidding, right?

There are NO freedom of religiousity in Muslim countries, such as: Malaysia, Indon, Saudi Arabia, and on on...

If those Muslim countries allow all Muslims to convert to become non Muslim FREELY, Muslims will become minority in those Muslims countries.

Human Rights in Islam? Oh my gosh !! Where have you been? Do you read news? You dare to criticize Prophet Muhammad who married 9 years old (Aisyiah) as pedhopilia, your head will be cut by Muslims.

Get real !!





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swingdoctor
post Nov 19 2006, 06:36 AM
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QUOTE(Wulandari @ Nov 18 2006, 04:48 PM) [snapback]2493265[/snapback]

Human Rights in Islam ?

Freedom of Religiousity?

You must be kidding, right?

There are NO freedom of religiousity in Muslim countries, such as: Malaysia, Indon, Saudi Arabia, and on on...

If those Muslim countries allow all Muslims to convert to become non Muslim FREELY, Muslims will become minority in those Muslims countries.

Human Rights in Islam? Oh my gosh !! Where have you been? Do you read news? You dare to criticize Prophet Muhammad who married 9 years old (Aisyiah) as pedhopilia, your head will be cut by Muslims.

Get real !!

There is nothing to gain with insults and name calling, all religions have "good points" and "bad points", we need to learn to to be more tolerant of each other and approach each other with friendship.
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ricochet
post Nov 19 2006, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE(swingdoctor @ Nov 19 2006, 07:36 PM) [snapback]2494820[/snapback]

There is nothing to gain with insults and name calling, all religions have "good points" and "bad points", we need to learn to to be more tolerant of each other and approach each other with friendship.


being modest arent you doc? how so diplomatic!
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swingdoctor
post Nov 19 2006, 06:03 PM
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QUOTE(ricochet @ Nov 19 2006, 09:16 AM) [snapback]2495022[/snapback]

being modest arent you doc? how so diplomatic!

I just think we're here to discuss and not insult.
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HangPC2
post Nov 19 2006, 08:18 PM
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tak habis-habis nak mempersoalkan.....
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Betong
post Nov 19 2006, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(Bhaskara @ Nov 18 2006, 01:50 AM) [snapback]2492069[/snapback]

So in Malaysia, Muslims can't convert to other religion?I'm sorry, but that is SO wrong!We have this thing called "Human Rights", if u haven't heard of it. It includes the freedom of religiousity!

If you are a muslim, and believe that Islam is the truth, u shouldnt feel threatened by muslim who wishes to convert. It's their loss, right?

We believe ISLAM the only truth religion in this world.. So we can't let our Muslim friends choose unthruth religion... That why!

QUOTE(Wulandari @ Nov 18 2006, 04:48 PM) [snapback]2493265[/snapback]

Human Rights in Islam ?

Freedom of Religiousity?

You must be kidding, right?

There are NO freedom of religiousity in Muslim countries, such as: Malaysia, Indon, Saudi Arabia, and on on...

If those Muslim countries allow all Muslims to convert to become non Muslim FREELY, Muslims will become minority in those Muslims countries.

Human Rights in Islam? Oh my gosh !! Where have you been? Do you read news? You dare to criticize Prophet Muhammad who married 9 years old (Aisyiah) as pedhopilia, your head will be cut by Muslims.

Get real !!

Lot amount of Islamphobia here??? So what your religion.. Prove your religion was the best???
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swingdoctor
post Nov 19 2006, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE(Betong @ Nov 19 2006, 08:30 PM) [snapback]2496590[/snapback]

We believe ISLAM the only truth religion in this world.. So we can't let our Muslim friends choose unthruth religion... That why!



All religions believe that theirs is the only true religion in the world. In theory Christians also need to discourage other Christians from relinquishing their faith.

However I believe that the state needs to be secular ie no laws prohibiting the choice of religion for anybody.
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Bhaskara
post Nov 20 2006, 06:42 AM
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QUOTE(Wulandari @ Nov 19 2006, 04:48 AM) [snapback]2493265[/snapback]

Human Rights in Islam ?

Freedom of Religiousity?

You must be kidding, right?

There are NO freedom of religiousity in Muslim countries, such as: Malaysia, Indon, Saudi Arabia, and on on...

If those Muslim countries allow all Muslims to convert to become non Muslim FREELY, Muslims will become minority in those Muslims countries.

Human Rights in Islam? Oh my gosh !! Where have you been? Do you read news? You dare to criticize Prophet Muhammad who married 9 years old (Aisyiah) as pedhopilia, your head will be cut by Muslims.

Get real !!

See, Wulandari?These kind of stupid remarks are what make us know that u r a chinazi flamer. U admit as an Indonesian, yet u always make wrong statements about Indonesia. People in Indonesia HAVE the freedom of choosing their own religion, and it is protected by the Law. If u're an Indonesian, u'd know that 'cos it's happening in daily basis, in every neigborhood.

U r such a sad person...if u want to pose as an Indonesian, at least do some research first.

QUOTE(Betong @ Nov 20 2006, 08:30 AM) [snapback]2496590[/snapback]

We believe ISLAM the only truth religion in this world.. So we can't let our Muslim friends choose unthruth religion... That why!
Lot amount of Islamphobia here??? So what your religion.. Prove your religion was the best???

You believe that ur religion is the truth?Fine, in fact, that's really good!But other people also think of that way about their religion. Think about it, if u r a christian in a christian country, and u receive ur "aqidah" to be a muslim, but u can't because the law doesnt let u. How'd u feel?
Tolerance is the keyword, my friend. biggthumpup.gif
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Betong
post Nov 20 2006, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE(Bhaskara @ Nov 20 2006, 06:42 AM) [snapback]2498228[/snapback]

You believe that ur religion is the truth?Fine, in fact, that's really good!But other people also think of that way about their religion. Think about it, if u r a christian in a christian country, and u receive ur "aqidah" to be a muslim, but u can't because the law doesnt let u. How'd u feel?
Tolerance is the keyword, my friend. biggthumpup.gif

Easy, just go to Muslim country that accept me... Hijrah.
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swingdoctor
post Nov 20 2006, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE(Betong @ Nov 20 2006, 06:08 PM) [snapback]2499657[/snapback]

Easy, just go to Muslim country that accept me... Hijrah.

So what you're saying is taht all Muslims who wish to change religions in Malaysia should leave the country?
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Betong
post Nov 20 2006, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE(swingdoctor @ Nov 20 2006, 06:26 PM) [snapback]2499719[/snapback]

So what you're saying is taht all Muslims who wish to change religions in Malaysia should leave the country?

No and for your information, my answer above just for me answering Bashkara question...

This post has been edited by Betong: Nov 20 2006, 06:35 PM
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swingdoctor
post Nov 20 2006, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE(Betong @ Nov 20 2006, 06:34 PM) [snapback]2499744[/snapback]

No and for your information, my answer above just for me answering Bashkara question...

So what should Muslims who wish to changre religions in Malaysia do?
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Betong
post Nov 20 2006, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE(swingdoctor @ Nov 20 2006, 06:46 PM) [snapback]2499773[/snapback]

So what should Muslims who wish to changre religions in Malaysia do?

They have to go to Syariah Court and apply.... And wait until court decided...
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Centurion
post Nov 20 2006, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE(swingdoctor @ Nov 19 2006, 06:36 AM) [snapback]2494820[/snapback]

There is nothing to gain with insults and name calling, all religions have "good points" and "bad points", we need to learn to to be more tolerant of each other and approach each other with friendship.


I am not sure how far this sort of tolerance will go. Is it not only as thick as an eggshell?

The real problem is when people adopt a triumphalistic view of their religion (i.e. "My religion is the Truth"). And that applies to both triumphalistic Islam and Christianity.

As long as people embrace this view of religion, they can never form genuine friendships with non-believers. As long as a religion teaches you that you and your religious brothers are more special than "the outsiders", there will always be some sort of bias against people of a different faith (or those with no faith whatsoever); a bias that simmers beneath the veneer of tolerance.

For some, their religion has NO BAD POINTS, swingdoc, only BAD PEOPLE. Blame the followers, reserve perfection for the religious structure.

And this is one excellent example where it is evidently destructive to allow religious people to practice their faith unfettered in a multicultural/multiethnic nation.
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swingdoctor
post Nov 20 2006, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE(Betong @ Nov 20 2006, 06:52 PM) [snapback]2499794[/snapback]

They have to go to Syariah Court and apply.... And wait until court decided...

And what are the chances of the Syariah Court approving their request and how long would it normally take?
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