Muslim Mob Options

[Betong]

And what are the chances of the Syariah Court approving their request and how long would it normally take?

Sorry doc, I just dunno about it.

[swingdoctor]

Sorry doc, I just dunno about it.

People should be able to choose their religion freely without persecution.

[Betong]

Why? Because human rights? Sorry, but I don't believe in that, doc.
If people freely choose religion like riding horse it will makes people thinks religion was a joke...

[maldini]

Why? Because human rights? Sorry, but I don't believe in that, doc.
If people freely choose religion like riding horse it will makes people thinks religion was a joke...

betong,
nice way to answer for something that you can't convince urself about it as well.

1) to FORCE other religion to convert to muslim just bcos of marriage...
2) not allowed to convert from muslim to other religion...

the 2 points below explain a lot about muslim.

[swingdoctor]

Why? Because human rights? Sorry, but I don't believe in that, doc.
If people freely choose religion like riding horse it will makes people thinks religion was a joke...

I respectfully disagree. Choosing a religion is not like choosing a horse. If changing religions was as blase as choosing a horse, should the government then not allow Christians, Buddists or Hindus to convert to Islam? The Bible in particular states that Christians have a responsibility towards other Christians faith ie we should not let/discourage others from giving up Christianity.
Furthermore, can you make someone practice a religion? If someone truly believes in God/Allah can you make them worship the other. If someone in their heart believed in God and not Allah but were Muslim by name only and worshiped God in their heart, would Allah accept them into heaven?
If Malaysia was Christian, and you were born Christian but now believed in Islam, and someone said to you, I'm sorry you cannot convert, could they make you believe in God or stop you from practicing the faith of your choosing?

This post has been edited by swingdoctor: Nov 21 2006, 11:41 PM

[Betong]

I respectfully disagree. Choosing a religion is not like choosing a horse. If changing religions was as blase as choosing a horse, should the government then not allow Christians, Buddists or Hindus to convert to Islam?
The Bible in particular states that Christians have a responsibility towards other Christians faith ie we should not let/discourage others from giving up Christianity.

Only Islam was clearly stated that Muslim cannot convert. For me, apostasy in Islam is equal to treason. Treason to Islam and whole muslim society. Maybe for you its only limited to political and military terms but not for me at least. So you cannot let treason running in your society and destroy the harmonic of society. To make sure what so called "human rights" is protected, here in Malaysia, we have syariah law, that clearly stated only gov can acted against this kind of thing. But a treason must fully realize the implications of his open rejection and what it means–casting doubt on the truth and honesty of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of God which we as a muslim cannot let it from happen.

Furthermore, can you make someone practice a religion? If someone truly believes in God/Allah can you make them worship the other. If someone in their heart believed in God and not Allah but were Muslim by name only and worshiped God in their heart, would Allah accept them into heaven?

God can accept anyone into heaven. It not for me to decided, who go to heaven or not as I just only His servant.

If Malaysia was Christian, and you were born Christian but now believed in Islam, and someone said to you, I'm sorry you cannot convert, could they make you believe in God or stop you from practicing the faith of your choosing?

If they show me there a better religion Islam, why not....

[kurekuresakti]

betong,
nice way to answer for something that you can't convince urself about it as well.

1) to FORCE other religion to convert to muslim just bcos of marriage...
2) not allowed to convert from muslim to other religion...

the 2 points below explain a lot about muslim.

islam does not force anybody to convert,its just that the constitution of marriage in islam,
will only allow the marriage to be done,when both the bride and groom are muslim.
if one of the couple is not muslim,the marriage is void.

frankly if u cant commit to such regulation
u can always get married in other religion that do not forbid inter-religion marriage
but then again if u are a muslim its forbidden

just to comment about your second point,
arent all religion forbid their followers from converting?
my christian says that catholics ade forbidden from converting,
and im sure others do to

[Centurion]

islam does not force anybody to convert,its just that the constitution of marriage in islam,
will only allow the marriage to be done,when both the bride and groom are muslim.
if one of the couple is not muslim,the marriage is void.

frankly if u cant commit to such regulation
u can always get married in other religion that do not forbid inter-religion marriage
but then again if u are a muslim its forbidden

Perhaps Islam does not force with the edge of a sword (in this part of the world). But to threaten with annulment or any other inconvenience (UNLESS one plays according to the rules set by the religious authority), is *forcing* people to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.
To pretend there is no compulsion involved is a deliberate play of words.

What do you mean by "u can always get married in other religion that do not forbid inter-religion marriage"?
Can a Muslim pretend to be Christian and get a Christian marriage with NO repercussions?

[kurekuresakti]

u can always get married in other religion that do not forbid inter-religion marriage
but then again if u are a muslim its forbidden

[Centurion]

u can always get married in other religion that do not forbid inter-religion marriage
but then again if u are a muslim its forbidden

So the "u" you refer to is a NON-MUSLIM la.
So what happens when a non-Muslim wants to marry a Muslim. Isn't there a forced conversion?

[kurekuresakti]

havent i explained clear enough?
or u still wanna fight about the word "forced conversion"

im a free thinker,and i respect every religion
each religion has their own ways,their own believes

[Centurion]

havent i explained clear enough?
or u still wanna fight about the word "forced conversion"

im a free thinker,and i respect every religion
each religion has their own ways,their own believes

Who's fighting?
You claim that there is no *forced conversion* in Islam.
But in practice, if one of the spouse is Muslim and the other is not, there cannot be a legitimate Muslim marriage. If that couple decides to opt for a non-Muslim marriage, that is also against Muslim law.
So there is no "forced conversion"? Only pain-in-the-butt religious bureaucracy that hampers your move every step of the way UNTIL YOU CONVERT OR YOU ABANDON THE MARRIAGE?
Take your pick.

This post has been edited by Centurion: Nov 22 2006, 12:06 PM

[maldini]

kurekuresakti,

i still stand by with the 2 points i pointed out above.
any twisting of words at the end of it will still come back to the 2 points....
btw, if you want to make it cannot convert to other religion, why don't they make another point such as other religion cannot convert to muslim as well?

the 2 points explained why muslim is growing in this world as well...

[Betong]

kurekuresakti,

i still stand by with the 2 points i pointed out above.
any twisting of words at the end of it will still come back to the 2 points....
btw, if you want to make it cannot convert to other religion, why don't they make another point such as other religion cannot convert to muslim as well?

the 2 points explained why muslim is growing in this world as well...

The 2 point above expain how brilliant Islam was

[maldini]

The 2 point above expain how brilliant Islam was

and how much it doesn't have confidence with itself....

[Betong]

But I called it brilliant...

[maldini]

But I called it brilliant...

while i define it as no confidence and created some law to force peoples as a result of it.
just like why msia have a law for the special priviledge for bumi....

[Kiss_the_Girls]

Why? Because human rights? Sorry, but I don't believe in that, doc.
If people freely choose religion like riding horse it will makes people thinks religion was a joke...

LMAO! You SERIOUS??

Only Islam was clearly stated that Muslim cannot convert. For me, apostasy in Islam is equal to treason. Treason to Islam and whole muslim society. Maybe for you its only limited to political and military terms but not for me at least. So you cannot let treason running in your society and destroy the harmonic of society. To make sure what so called "human rights" is protected, here in Malaysia, we have syariah law, that clearly stated only gov can acted against this kind of thing. But a treason must fully realize the implications of his open rejection and what it means–casting doubt on the truth and honesty of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of God which we as a muslim cannot let it from happen.
God can accept anyone into heaven. It not for me to decided, who go to heaven or not as I just only His servant.
If they show me there a better religion Islam, why not....

That is seriously screwed up. The Shariah laws absolutely give no human rights. I don't know how your going to achieve a harmonic society, when people are forced to do something they don't want. Human Rights is God given, and its not for the courts to decide how we should go about life...

islam does not force anybody to convert,its just that the constitution of marriage in islam,
will only allow the marriage to be done,when both the bride and groom are muslim.
if one of the couple is not muslim,the marriage is void.

frankly if u cant commit to such regulation
u can always get married in other religion that do not forbid inter-religion marriage
but then again if u are a muslim its forbidden

just to comment about your second point,
arent all religion forbid their followers from converting?
my christian says that catholics ade forbidden from converting,
and im sure others do to

I don't know if its forbidden, but there is definitely no serious consequences if you should covert to another religion.

This post has been edited by Kiss_the_Girls: Nov 23 2006, 09:30 PM

[swingdoctor]

Only Islam was clearly stated that Muslim cannot convert. For me, apostasy in Islam is equal to treason. Treason to Islam and whole muslim society. Maybe for you its only limited to political and military terms but not for me at least. So you cannot let treason running in your society and destroy the harmonic of society. To make sure what so called "human rights" is protected, here in Malaysia, we have syariah law, that clearly stated only gov can acted against this kind of thing. But a treason must fully realize the implications of his open rejection and what it means–casting doubt on the truth and honesty of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of God which we as a muslim cannot let it from happen.

Not true, in Christianity, the biggest sin you can commit is rejecting God when you know him ie converting to another religion. So the same thing applies, if you consider this treason, then people of other religions should not also be allowed to convert to Islam. It might surprise you to know that Christianity and Islam is very similar, the Bible and Koran again very similar and similar in their teachings. Still, how does someone else either converting to Islam or away from Islam affect other Muslims personally? How does someone else choosing to believe in another God afect other Muslims. Unless of course you want to force your beliefs onto others.

God can accept anyone into heaven. It not for me to decided, who go to heaven or not as I just only His servant.

True, so again if soemone wants to convert away from Islam is it for anyone else to say that he/she will go to hell, and if this is the case why should it bother other people if someone wants to choose another religion.

If they show me there a better religion Islam, why not....

And if the people who want to convert away from Islam believe that they have been shown a better religion, why should they not be allowed to convert?

u can always get married in other religion that do not forbid inter-religion marriage
but then again if u are a muslim its forbidden

It might also surprise you to know that Christians are only allowed to marry other Christians, the only difference with Islam is that this law is not a law of the land while in Malaysia it is for Islam.
If Malaysia was concerned about protecting religious laws, then they also should not allow Christians from marrying non Christians, unless of course the non Christians convert.

[Betong]

You just cannot compare Islam with other religion and vice versa...
Maybe some are their teaching are same but did Christian practice it...
I don't think so...
I'm not so surprise if Christian have same methodoly regarding married because we're still what so called "Abrahamic Religion"....