http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2nYj9HFy_k

After 32 years, hmong people are still paying the price for helping the Americans in the vietnam war. People need to see this video and know what's up right now.

Nobody Care....you’re wasting your time putting it together. What can we do?..Nothing. We don't have the power of doing so. Yet, our past is their present but it’s their destiny. Do you think Hmong people care about other Hmong people beside their family member? What about the Hmong community leaders are they going to do something?...I don’t think so…These people had been living in the jungle ever since the end of the Vietnam War. Everybody knew that they existed back then why would any of the Hmong leaders out there say anything or do anything until 2001. The first video documents about these people first come out in April 2000 and 6 years had past there is no solution to solve these issues. In 1974, The United States Governments knew that there will be Genocide against the Hmong people due to their effort in the War. Yet, the U.S. Government is ignoring it. Now there are hard evidence that Genocides in Laos does exists and what do the U.S. Governments do?... Nothing… Instead of helping the situation in Laos, Bush went to Iraq. Sorry to say to the Hmong people in the jungle of Laos. We already forgotten of who you are.

i would like that hard evidence of genocide, please. where can i find that information?

It's sad to say, but what djvichai posted above has some truth to it.

I think the best thing we can do now is to bring awareness to the situation. Maybe then, we'll atleast have a finger in the fate of our fellow Hmong brothers and sisters. I believed their fate is sealed. My prayers will always be with them though.

Their only hope left, is if the U.S. government decides to do something to help. But, that's very unlikely. Because, by helping the Hmong in Laos, Americans gain little. There is no oil money. There is no political gain. There is nothing to gain, but a few lives. And to the U.S. government, souls are not worth as much as gold.



Go here for the hard facts: www.factfinding.org

The site contains cold hard facts, such as:
- Pictures (WARNING: Some pictures can be graphic)
- Videos (WARNING: Graphic videos of men/women/children dying of wounds from mines/gun shots/gernades/etc...)
- Articles
- Interviews
- Reports
- Much more...

Here's a Hmong dude who knows what he's talking about.
To get a fair perspective on the whole situation, vist this link and read dynastyman posts. He seems like a well-rounded Hmong who knows what sup.
http://www.hmongblog.com/forums/viewtopic....asc&start=0

dynastyman
Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 1:57 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 736
You people are too young, arrogant and crazy to know anything.

My10thao, who said ''the USA government have no rights to interfere wiith other foreign countries and their policy and civil war,'' wants the usa to do something about this. Wow, you are so contradictory, when it comes to others you have the blind eye, but when it comes to you, you want the usa to intervene. first of all, a hypocrite and contradictor gets nowhere, but to the beginning of the problem.

You people should face reality here, the ''war is over.'' those hmong in the jungles are rebels who is STILL FIGHTING A DEAD WAR, staying in the jungle as rebels against the laotain government and waiting for vang pao's return, and the usa to return and fight a dead war and rescue and make lao hmong country. These hmong are stupid and delusional. get out of the jungle.

The lao government see these rebel resistance hmong a threat to their government and they will be killed.

Those who is not a threat and submissive to the lao government were sparee and not harmed. For example, there are no hmong killings in big city of hmong residence who abide by laotain laws. currently, hmong in laos have occupied all socail economical status in laos and branches of lao government. today many hmongs have graduated from laotain institutions. these show no evidence of laotain government to eradicate hmong as hmong are living without interruption and normal daily lives in laos occupying all economic status.
the only incidences were documented on these rebel hmong in the jungle who is still fighting a resistance and the war. they couldn't accepted that the war is over. they must accept the end of the war, get out of the jungle, submit to laotain rule and live like all other hmong people. these people put themselves in that situation and they are to be blamed.

the lao government has proven to give welfare and security to those hmong who doesn't volate laotain rule. how are these hmong violating laotain rule? by staying in the jungle and making a resistance against the lao government, and hoping the americans and vang pao to come rescue them and fight and win a war against the laotain government. the lao government see this as a threat, and they will eradicare these resistance group. again those hmong who lives in the city who porvides no resistance, are not harmed, but given welfare and security.

you people don't know anything. the usa government knows a lot and they have good reasons not to intervene. first, knowing that amercan hmongs and vang poa have for the last decade made numerous claims against the laotian government as causes to go back and fight a dead war, just because the hmong couldn't face losing the war and making lao hmong country.

secondly, these videotapes were brought forth to the united nations and they find no evidence to intervene, and for these rebel hmongs to submit to thier country's laws.

so, you guys are fools for such actions when you don't see the clear picture.

these hmongs should get out of the jungle and live like thousands of other hmongs in laos and not fight a dead war and cause resistance to the laotian government.

the world knows all this afte looking at all the evidences. nobody is going to do anything. and for those who argued that the usa should not intervene in world affairs like my10thao.......should STFU. dumbass hypocrite. your puny contradictory voice isn't going to do squat.

Yeah, he seems to know what's he's talking about. i ran into that before, but i can't help but feel that he's being biased. he never went to the mountains himself and witnessed the whole situation firsthand. i wouldn't deny that laos is a communist nation and would do anything to protect that, even killing the chao fa, but i don't believe it's genocide because it's not done on the basis of their race. as any other commie nation, laos eliminates its dissenters the original way... by purging. In the factfinding website it listed the Lao Human Rights Council as a site that promotes human rights and demotes the genocide of hmongs and persecution of other laotians. this "other" implies that the hmong weren't the specific targets . Also, there are hmongs in Lao cities who hold all rights other lao citizens hold. As for the punishment of the chao fa, the maximum punishment for treason even in the United States is death. what happened, i believe, is that the hmong in the mountains are pushed to the edge for punishment of treason that was bequeathed to them by their fathers. i think another likely reason is for stabilization of the young government. Weaken your enemy force. somebody give me a revolution that did not result in massive bloodshed. i don't agree with the term genocide, but i do agree that what are being done to those women are just plain wrong. i wouldn't doubt it does occur, but then again... name a war that didn't result in rape and the injustice done to the women of the losing force. even the united states is guilty. Even the factfinding.org website is careful to use the word genocide. I only saw it as part of a link or description of a link which is roughly twice, for one of the links appears multiple times. On a side note, the factfinding.org website is completely biased and propagandistic. Let’s be honest… the hmong left behind were not soldiers and allies of the CIA, but were simply mercenaries of a secret war. This is how they are viewed by the U.S. government, and this is how they are depicted at college institutions. Well, depends if your teacher is hmong like one of the members of the site. That site is also horribly maintained and needs management. I think somebody here should volunteer. finally, i welcome any disagreements not for the purpose of arguing, but to enlighten myself. please give me your opinons and findings in an orderly manner.

They definately are suffering and are afraid to come out. Video's and pictures prove it. But, I don't see why they still are trying to fight to this day. Someone or something is still fueling their fight. I mean, where do they get their bullets from? I figured you'd run out of bullets by this time. Are they afraid? Yes, it looks that way. Is the Laotian government out to kill them, possibly. I mean, they are considered rebels. What else are you supposed to do to rebels?

Rebels have no place in society. It's a struggle between them and the Lao government now. They both have to try and understand each other. They have to trust that the Lao government won't kill them off, and the Lao government has to trust that they don't want to fight anymore.

If the Lao government sees them as a threat to the government and decides to execute them as rebels, then so be it. If they are given another chance and are admitted into society, then so be it. To be dead is a much better place to be than to live in slavery or constant suffering. Maybe in heaven they will find their peace.

Like I said earlier, they're all dead. The men may be executed. The women may get raped. The children may suffer. Ultimately, their fate is sealed. It was sealed when we made the deal to help the U.S. during the Vietnam war.

Do I feel guilty that some of my fellow Hmong brothers and sisters that weren't as lucky as my parents and didn't make it out of Laos? Yes, I do. I wish I could do more to help. But, no amount of dollar from my pocket will ease their suffering now.

i love ur objective approach. i'm curious though... who should be blamed? anybody?

gosh, I agree with you completely.

I didn't put this video together, however I do believe that those people are telling the truth. As much as we want to help, we can't do anything. This is just to bring awareness to people who don't know what's going on with the chaofa hmong back in Laos.
I had asked my dad tons of questions about the chaofa hmong, why they were hiding in the jungle, what happened to us after the war, and the consequences hmong villagers and everybody else had to face. And I found out a lot of things that I would of never known if I hadn't asked him. Well, this is all coming from my dad so nobody has to believe me, but I believe him (some things I still want to clear up though). Maybe some people in here think differently. Why did the hmongs run into the jungle? I asked my dad if they had nowhere else to go so was that why they ran there? According the my dad, the hmong people followed a leader. He said that every group of hmong people had a leader and if the leader told them to run into the jungle with him, that's what they would do. My dad actually calls those hmong people "stupid." Because after the war ended and the U.S. pulled out of the war, they thought that they would never run out of artillery/bullets because they still had a lot to use up. Many of the hmong leaders who ran into the forest still wanted to fight the north vietnamese and become the ruler. After the war, if you surrender, you would have to stay in the villages and beg not to be killed. However, those chaofa hmong ran into the jungle and continued to fight like what that hmong guy said, they still won't face reality.
How have they survived for thirty years now and where do they get their bullets from? I had already asked my dad this a few months ago, and he told me that the hmongs living in the jungle would ambush laotian soldiers passing by, kill them, and then steal their money to go into villages and buy food and then bring those things back to the jungle where they hide. My use of words aren't very good right now, but yeah. After hearing this, I don't feel much sympathy for the hmongs living in the jungle as much as I used to. There's no way out for them but to die of starvation/malnutrition/disease in the jungle or to surrender to the pathet lao and probably get killed either way.

it's a battle that i don't think can be resolved without violence. the lao government won't give enough and the hmong won't take too little. do u know if ur dad knows if the chao fa are actually fighting a religious war? i don't know if it has any connection but chao fa sounds peculiarly like heaven people in lao or thai. and i think u should still feel sympathy because i don't think the women and children are involved yet they are held accountable. the new generation did not take part in the fight that their parents chose. the reason they kept ambushing for ammo is because they have no other choice. it's not even a matter of ideals anymore. it's killed or get killed. the problem is that there is a rift in the connection that resulted from that Secret War, which by the way is a misnomer and is both unethical and not congressional. i mentioned that cause i'm just appalled at some hmong's unwavering patriotism for the US and support for capitalism. i really don't know where that came from.

These people are opposing the communist regime. A regime that “Human Rights” doesn’t apply to them. There are no difference between Saddam Hussein Regime and the Pathet Lao Communist Regime. The people of the Jungle are no terrorist they are Freedom Fighter. Most of the elders people in the Jungle are once a top military officer during the Vietnam War. They’re the last resistant group left that is opposing the Communist rule. The Pathet Lao fear that the chaofa will overthrow the Laos Communist government. Both, the Laotian and the Vietnamese Communist regime had violate the Geneva Protocol by killing the Hmong people in the Jungle of Laos with Yellow Rain (a bio-chemical weapon gas that kill every single living thing within in a ¼ mile radius) Women, children, and elders are dead when the Yellow Rain was used. How is this not different form Saddam Hussein? The Pathet Lao Communist Regime had violate the Human Rights Act and plus they also Violate the Geneva Protocol. Is there anyone gonna do something about this Inhuman Society. Where is all the Political Science Major? It’s not Pathet Lao Communist killing Hmong but also killing Laos as well.

A religious war? I don't think anybody knows that. You'd have to ask the chao fa hmong themselves.

if i may... we already established that what is done is in retaliation. i'm not saying that it's right but every government handles everything this way. u want others to intervene? every country is guilty of the same if not similar charge? i want to laugh my @$$ off. the empires of today that u want to step up gave the most bloodshed. more than tenfold the cost of the chao fa. the U.S. still drops agent orange in numerous other countries in response to ur comment on yellow rain... and they deny the damages. what was done in iraq is not a matter of human rights. if u followed up... that argument came after the soldiers were already in iraq. but while we're at it why not invade the U.S. too which broke way more treaties, refused to take part in benevolent protocols, and walked out on the UN multiple times? there is so much dirt on the US... that's just the tip of the iceberg. i'm sure every other regime is the same. and if iraq is bad is not for u to decide. and... freedom fighters? i don't know why u'd call them that... and finally, laos is looking for a chance to strengthen. a chance that every strong nation doesn't need now.. but once had and did much worse. if anybody should intervene.. they should sacrafice their power first.

I have alot more arguments but i'll save it. i want to know what else u think. also, i can't verify but i've read that the chao fa is a result of two hmong leaders who fled to the mountains coaxing their ppl to follow them and continue fighting on the basis that a Hmong king will rise and lead them.

nice propaganda video... they're getting better everytime!


whats bias about it? what more do you need to know about this situation? we have a terrorist group(chao fa)who do not respect the current legitimate government. they are armed and dangerous. they are involved in anti-government activity, they keep women and children around them when they should not! chao fa vs lpdr, one will be the loser and one will be the winner.

the chao fa wanted a war, now they have a war. why are these chao fa cowards still keeping women and children around them? the lpdr have given them many chances to surrender but instead they choose death.



the string pullers in america that are encouraging and funding this, the american hmongs... this is the outcome of their own selfishness and stupidity.


what are you talking about? terrorist have no rights buddy, go and ask uncle sam wassup.


thats what the arabs say about mr osama bin laden.

is it not illegal when one is armed and involved in anti-government activity? the lpdr has got the high ground because they are the government, respect it.



sorry my friend the communist do not fight fair. they will take out the threat by any means.



theres no oil


and the chao fa have violated every freekin law in Laos and the UN!

whether lao or hmong-lao it doesnt matter. if they cause trouble and get killed, they deserved it. if we dont start nothing there wont be nothing... leave the lpdr alone...

u know what u're talking about chao lao. i just want to say he's probably biased because he said that those hmong had an opputunity to leave the mountains and reassemble in society as if nothing happened. like u said.. communist. there will be no such option, don't u agree? actually.. no matter what kind of government it is... there is no such option for rebels. and i always agreed that the US string pullers are responsible but i want to know how the hmong feel. i mean.. i wonder why there are hmong catholics. i wonder why some hmong say "that fu-ken communist state". i wonder why some hmong children are taught not to be friends with other lao kids. actually, i know why but i don't understand.

Whatever, people can think of this video as however they like. You either believe it or you don't.

I have to agree with many of the things that chao lao stated in his post about the chao fa. But I have to say, not all hmong-americans are encouraging this. Many just want to help, and he can call that stupidity all he wants.
Also, you're right that there will never be an option for rebels like the chao fa in a communist country, or any country at all. We, the hmongs, agreed to take a chance and help the U.S. in the vietnam war. We believed their stupid promise, only to realize in the end that we DID make a stupid mistake helping a dishonest country like America. But we were the fools to believe the Americans would actually take care of us if we ever lost the war. Now those hmongs left in Laos that are still hiding in the jungles are paying the price for it. I've already accepted that this is the reality of it, and as much as I'd like to help, I have to settle with how things are because we're all powerless to do anything. And about your questions. I have no idea either why there are hmong catholics. Ask a hmong person who is a catholic and there you go, you got your answer. Many hmongs would say: "that fu-ken communist state" because they're ignorant. They don't know their history and they think the whole world is against their kind, especially Laos just because many hmongs have been killed for helping the americans in the war. Also, many hmong kids aren't taught not to be friends with lao kids. It's mainly because of what happened after the vietnam war, with the communists killing hmongs so it makes most of them feel like they shouldn't befriend laotians. It's hard to explain, but it's their own problem that they need to deal with. You don't need to think too much about it. I can't speak for every hmong person who's like this though. There are other things too, but I'm running out of time here.

That's ridiculous. Laotians are in the same position as Hmongs. Let us remember, a lot of Laotians were killed by the Communists trying to cross the Mekong river. The communists will go after anyone who try to fu-k with them, be it Hmongs or Laotians.

exactly. my family dodged bullets to get to america.

Yes Thaidump, you did make a good point and I respect your point of view. I have to agree with your input # 14, you’re right!

Now, back to Chao lao comments “what are you talking about? Terrorist have no rights buddy, go and ask uncle sam wassup”.

Terrorist or non-terrorist, they’re human being too. It doesn’t mean that they don’t have Human Rights because they’re unlawful enemy combatants

“whether lao or hmong-lao it doesnt matter. if they cause trouble and get killed, they deserved it. if we dont start nothing there wont be nothing... leave the lpdr alone...”

The LPDR are pursuing these people in the jungle of Laos to exterminate them. The Chaofa did go looking for trouble. The LPDR feel threat from these people and for that reason the Chaofa must be eliminate according to the LPDR policy.


“the string pullers in america that are encouraging and funding this, the american hmongs... this is the outcome of their own selfishness and stupidity.”

Both Hmong and Lao are encouraging this. Who are the Laos people that encourage this?... Laos that once fought against the communist. Laos that think this is inhuman, Laos that still have family in the jungle, Laos who are educators that see this situation is a wrong doing by their former country. Laos that are opposing the Communist regime. There is a Laos National Conference held every year in the United State and they’re discuses about this kind of issue …Your be surprise how many Laotian students across the nation opposed the Government of Laos.

“and the chao fa have violated every freekin law in Laos and the UN!”


Where is your evidence that the Chao Fa violated every law in Laos and the United Nation?... If the LPDR is as nice as you said…Where is your proof of their innocent?.. Unfortunately, there is proof that the killing of innocent women and children by the LPDR did occurred in the jungle of Laos. A picture worth a million words. I would like
Chao Lao to proof me wrong that the LPDR is innocent.

i'm all for capitalism too but there's nothing wrong with a nation being socialist. it works. it's not wrong. the chao fa's main cash crop is opium. it's outlawed. the thing is that the chao fa can't survive without it relying on subsistence farming alone. the hmong's also practice slash and burn which destroys timber... a valuable laotian export. i know of these for now. it is also believed that the chao fa are fighting to overthrow the laotian government and set up a hmong kingdom. the chao fa emerged when two hmong leaders escaped camp and coerced many hmongs to continue fighting and await the emergence of a hmong king. this alone would set any jeapordized nation in motion.

with all that said. there's much details that are still unknown and these are just bare allegations.

as for the laotian that still fund this war. educated as they are... they should know that communism is not wrong. they just believe communism is not the right approach to developing laos. there is nothing inhuman about communism. if u believe there is.. congrats, u're brainwashed. if anything.. it's just as inhuman as capitalism.

Remember what the U.S. said, "We don't negotiate with terrorists", and that's exactly what these people are to the LPDR. Any government would do the same if they feel treathen by an opposing force.


A picture can be worth anything you make of it. The U.S. said Saddam had biological weapons/weapons of mass destruction. They showed photos from their satellite...and now we all know how BS it all turned out to be.

“there is nothing inhuman about communism. if u believe there is.. congrats, u're brainwashed. if anything.. it's just as inhuman as capitalism.”

I think you’re missing my point. I didn’t say “that communism is inhuman. I’m referring to the killing of the chaofa and how they were killed plus how the LPDR cut open their dead body and throw their body parts all over the place. Also, I didn’t say that having a communism society is wrong. Brainwashed?...I don’t think so. I don’t blame you for defending a communism society and there is nothing wrong with that either. Everyone have their own different perspective and there is no right or wrong. I careless even if you have complimentary for communism.

“it is also believed that the chao fa are fighting to overthrow the laotian government and set up a hmong kingdom.”

I don’t know where you get this information from but, having a Hmong Kingdom?...I don’t think so…For example if the Chao Fa were able to overthrow the Laotian government, Laos still be Laos…it’s just the fact that we’ll be seeing more Hmong in the new Laos Government.

"the chao fa's main cash crop is opium."

You’re wrong about this….Chao Fa don’t farm because if they farm on an open field they’re risking their life…Opium are farmed by both Hmong and Laos who live in the countryside and it’s legal.
The Chao fa live and eat off the jungle for survival only.


“as for the laotian that still fund this war. educated as they are... they should know that communism is not wrong. they just believe communism is not the right approach to developing laos. there is nothing inhuman about communism.”

They are not financially funding this war… They are the Voice of the Chao Fa Asking for political help to end this war.

yeah i was a bit confused about the inhuman part. my fault. i've read that the CIA that searched for vang pao was spoken with by vang pao and many clan leaders. vang pao was quoted saying something like he and communism can not coexist. while the leaders had a chance to speak with him... this was when they were promised a hmong kingdom if successful or a place to retreat if unsuccessful. the hmong were efficient but after the war proved unprofitable to the americans, they pulled out without a care. vang pao stayed with the hmong for many days demanding several planes harbored in the phillipines pick up the thousands of hmong that retreated. he believed the US was obliged to transport every single hmong waiting. the US provided only one plane and one trip despite the availability of several other planes. consequently, only one cramped plane was used and only one trip was made. vang pao was in thailand at the time and was forced to leave. the US welcomed him but he had to divorce all but one wife before he could be admitted to the states due to monogamy laws. his wives soon followed. i gave the whole chunk to show that i've really been reading. i found that information from research. one of the sites is http://www.hmongnet.org/publications/hmf-intro.html. take it as reliable or not but this site has so much history in it with so much objectiveness.. i believe it. it is also insightful. i recommend it.

... that last sentence u said... of course there'd be a huge difference. if not then there'd be a black president by now and that doesn't even compare with a monarchy. with a hmong monarchy everything WILL change. of course the examples i come up with are only hypothetical. hmong might become the new national language. opium may be legalized. laotians may be relocated. anything can happen and the changes could be drastic. from these changes the overall culture and its balance would change as well.

mutilated body parts... i'm telling u... every nation is just as gruesome. children, women, grandparents... every nation took them all to seize power. japan, usa, britain... u name it.. they all did it before and at a higher rate. i'm not justifying it. i'm just saying... why aren't all these sovereign states resisted as well? cause it's history? so once laos is done with the chao fa then they're legitimate also? it's not fair.

Thats some fu-king dumb $hit......submit to the laotian laws............hahahah havent you guys looked at history........look at all the people who submitted to the countries law after committing a crime........do it and you die or get locked up when it comes to the U.S. Look at the Gulf War look at all the people who helped the U.S. after the U.S. pulled out they were killed by saddam............thats like saying osma bin laden come out and rejoin society we're not going to hurt you just because you blew up the twin tower we just want to live in peace we can forget all that you have done............if you committed a crime against a country they will always hold a grudge against you....another example like this is when i go commit a crime and the police officer lets me get away......thats y the hmong people ran into the jungle to live till this day because they helped the U.S. not becuz they think they could still start a new hmong country..........you know they arent as stupid as you think......the hmong people who live with the communist were caught or were to scared to leave the camp and had to be re-educated thats y they can live within the laotian society......y do you think when the U.S. let people from thailand come to the U.S. some of the hmong living within laotion society left laos for thailand secretly..........plus the hmong are not trying to spark another war they are asking the laotian to stop pursecting the hmong people.........if the laotian really were as peacful as some of you have stated y dont they leave the hmong people in peace.........y must they poison or gas the hmong people.........if they leave the chaw fo alone maybe there wouldnt be so much problem...........

u said... the hmong people who live with the communist were caught or were to scared to leave the camp and had to be re-educated thats y they can live within the laotian society.

those people sided with the US too. in the list of history, u listed a group that committed a crime, yet reassimilated after camp. from that, it looks like it's not a grudge and assimilation is possible. u're arguing by rationality, not by facts. it just contradicted and u shot urself on the foot.

u said those guys committed a crime. and so... shouldn't they be punished? shouldn't they give themselves up? war is a gamble... or are hmongs immune? and for those who resisted... don't they usually get caught or died in the process? so through history.. shouldn't it be ok?

vang pao's organization sends money back. donors feel obligated. for a certain price they can also buy a position in the future hmong regime. i'm sure all this didn't rise out of thin air.

finally... i don't recall anybody saying the LPDR is peaceful. were the hmong in laos peaceful? is any race in this world peaceful? the laotians have shown more signs of peace during the indochina wars, while the hmong and US infringed cease-fires and agreements. i don't get it. would it be any different if they just shot those ppl down rather than poison them? i think it'd be better if u mentioned the gutted children. that's more inhuman. biochemical weapons are a means of killing by bulk. it's not used for its horrendous effects. if they had nukes, i'm sure they'd use that instead.

i think opium was just recently illegalized. laotians that are still addicted grow it for themselves and are under rehab. laos is looking forward to being opium free. i'll double check on the subsistence farming part.

Of course you'd think it's ridiculous if you don't understand anything and is just looking at this from one viewpoint. Look at it from both sides, not just your side. I know the meins, laotians, cambodians suffered the same just as the hmong did alright? This 'not wanting to be friends' is a problem that has a lot to do with ethnicity. It's all about the vietnam war and the tragic events that took place after the communists took over. When hmong children hear and read stories of how the communist vietnamese and pathet lao came after their parents and grandparents while they were trying to escape to thailand, of course those kids are going to develope a bad impression of the laotians. For some hmongs, it doesn't matter if you live in your country or in america, you're still laotian to them and the bad impression that they got is going to stick with them. That's why some hmong kids don't friend laotians. It's common to think this way if you don't know your history. I'm not going to deny that some hmong parents do teach their kids not to be friends with laotians though. Understand that they also witnessed their families being killed by the pathet lao. Just like everyone else. So those hmongs have developed hate for laotians altogether. I also have to mention that it's way easier to hate another ethnicity than hate your own kind.

I forgot to reply to this. But some time ago, my dad did tell me that chao fa was a laotian word, and that "fa" means sky/heaven and "chao" means something along the lines of you or they. And that it does mean heaven people or people from the heavens. So why does Laos call them that name?

laos does not call them "heaven people". i think laotians refer to them by their derogatory variants of hmong. heaven people... must have been self-appointed. iono. but this does lead me to further believe there is a spiritual or religious connection. chao could mean you if u say it in a specific tone. it seems more likely to me that they meant to say it in a way that sounds more like chow, which means something like "people of" i think. for example, chao pramong is a specific ethnic group. i never head anybody said chao fa so i don't know which one it is. there is also a word in thai that sounds more like jao which means something like "lord". and Fa in both lao and thai is heaven. there's no mistakening that. i don't know why they're called chao fa. but from my reasoning... if it means what we think it does.. it's highly probable that it's linked to the idea of destiny.

first off, lets not use the term Hmong since its not the polically correct term. it should be the chao-fa hmong. the reason is there is another 393,000 lao-hmongs in lao that have no problem with the government and are contributing to their nation and are wealthy and happy.

he's right. the lao government have given the chao-fa hmongs many chances to surrender and still offer this option. after surrendering they are given a second chance. there are many articles on this from good U.S. sources. google search and you'll find. please do more research before going into random assumptions...


miss yuli, thank you for giving your opinion. its always good to hear eachothers point of views. i grew up with mainly hmong people and have always loved hmong people. there should be no animosity between lao and hmong but only between chao-fa and lpdr. Daic and hmong-mien people have coexist with eachothers for thousands of years with little to no problems.

i have not watched to video and will not watch it. we all have to ask about the story that lead up to this incident. we cant just judge from the first impression. example below:

a sex offender named bob rapes to little boys at a park, bob gets beat up severely by the kids fathers. Bob then runs and gets away, goes home and makes a video about how he is innocently being assaulted because he's gay. he cry and pleads for help... the tape is uploaded on the internet and distributed worldwide for support. there is going to be many people that do not know about the whole situation and will throw there whole weight behind this sex offender to support him, while the others who do know about the whole situation will say he deserved it.

in the case of the chao-fa hmongs i know history and what lead to this point in this conflict. there is a legitimate lao government that is recognized by the world and there is the chao-fa who are rebels numbering only 7000+ who are remnants to the old government from the pre-vietnam war era who choose to not give up arms and live like normal citizens of lao. this is why the US of A and the UN are not stepping up to the plate, they know whats really going on... wakeup people, try to see past the propaganda machine.





not all hmong-americans are encouraging this but the majority are of the hmongs are.

help for what? the chao-fa are involved in anti-government activity, they get pursued and killed by government soldiers, they cry and plead for help because they are being killed for their own stupidity, the hmongs in america give support to continue with this problem the chao-fa brought to themselves. this only goes in circles and it started because the chao-fa's own wrongdoings of not obeying the laws of the land!

the formula to solving this problem is very easy if one really wants peace. its as easy as 1+1=2

chao-fa surrender, give up arms, live in peace. but its not that easy when one is remotely controlled like a robot from the oustide.

the chao-fa are so cutoff from the outside world they still think the cia are going to come and save them. it is their own people/kind that is exploiting them. i hope any hmong out there with common sense can see this. they are being exploited because they are the last and only hope for the rlg and general vang pao government in exile to making their dreams of ruling laos again come true. you and i all know that this will never ever happen and its suicide. how can 7000+ win against the lao army supported by vietnamese soldiers?


exactly... we're all on the same boast for the same reason



1) it is a war, bombs and bullets have no names. the formula is very simple all the chao-fa have to do is surrender and give up arms.

2) The chao-fa have been proven to be supported by outside forces that have only one agenda and that is to overthrow the current lao lpdr government. the chao-fa oppose and do not recognize the current government so therefore are a threat.

3) The Hhong-Lao and Lao are both at fault and to blame for the chao-fa suffering. vang pao, the king in france are giving their blessings for this to continue. the chao-fa are the only chance and last hope for the current lao government in exile to fight to succeed in their dream of immigrating back to lao and being back in power.

without chao-fa who will be doing the fighting? they are the only ones left inside laos. all the lowland lao threat have been neutralized. the only threat comes from the chao-fa inside laos and northeastern thailand/isaan lao from thailand. as we can all see, there are hitsquads all throughout NE-Thailand that are ready to assasinate anyone that poses a threat to the lao nation. The recent murders of the lao couple from the US and the two lao gentleman from portland, oregon.

4) are we all that blind to the facts? it does not take a genius to have some common sense.
i will show you my common sense evidence...

the chao fa are armed. having arms is illegal if not registered.
the chao fa are engaged in anti-government activity.

the list goes on and on and on...



the great U.S. of A. is showing the world the way on how to treat terrorist. ever nation has its own definition on what is a terrorist. in laos the terrorist are the chao-fa and lao anti-government orginization based in americ and isaan.

Guantánamo Bay, white phospherous gas, secret prisons, jailed infinately, no rights??? uncle sam said its ok if they're terrorist...


hello vichai. you seem like a very cool guy and i respect your opinion. its good to have/hear a different point of view.

i agree, there will be no hmong kingdom because its not possible. the lao people outnumber the hmongs by almost 3-million and thats not including the lao in thailand numbering 30-million plus...

there are many hmongs officials in the current government. but we have to understand one thing, its hard to trust a people that have a history of betraying their nation. no loyalty...


selfish, ignorant, arrogant, no common sense and just plain out stupid!!! do you realize what you're saying??

its not about submitting to Laotion laws, its about respecting and obeying the laws of the nation. laws are made for people to follow. why are the hmongs so delusional and everything is a Lao vs Hmong thing??? all the lpdr is asking from the chao-fa is to give up arms and live in peace like everyother ethnics in laos. is that too much to ask for? this conflict in laos is not about hmong and lao but about lpdr and 7000 or less chao-fa.

lets not forget that laos has over 400,000 hmongs. why are the 393,000 hmongs in laos not complaining? the hmongs are the wealthiest minority in laos and are a big part of the lao nation.



chao-fa is infact a lao word that means lord of the sky/heavens or something of that nature. the lao call them chao fa cause that is what the group is called. the chao-fa chose that name not the lao. just as al qaida was named al qaida.

im assuming most of you are young and have very little knowledge of the situation. i ask all of you to please read more books and articles from both sides before making random crazy, no common sense assumptions...

thank you
chao-lao




infact laos people do call them chao-fa. that is what their group/orginization/faction is named/called.

i'm sorry for any misunderstandings, but there were two things u said in respect to what i said. as for the many reliable sources to date... there are sources (just as reliable) that also say otherwise. also, any type of media is subject to scrutiny. and my conclusion is not just an assumption, it's an educated application of history. treason is not forgiven. treason multiple times is also not forgiven. assimilation after treason is possible, but difficult. imagine the hardships it would take that might even overshadow the pain of death. re-educational camps would be a doorway back to society.. and it's a doorway with thorns, knives, and barbed wire. to blindly believe what u read without a sense of objective or critical thinking is just as good as not reading it. it's what we call book smarts without street smarts.

it doesn't matter if they accepted that name or not, it's whether the hmong appointed it to themselves. it would be... i don't even know how it say it.. weird? for the lao gov to give them that name? if the "chao fa hmong" did indeed name themselves that.. it has to be linked with destiny. after that, is it hard to make a connection with fighting for a hmong kingdom? i know it's absurd too, but many things in life that were once more absurdly impossible became a reality.

i have respect for djvichai's perspectives also. he's one of the few that actually know of what's happening in the world. but i'm going to have to agree with him and say... US intervention is not a matter of human rights. it's about the dollar sign. and yes there is propaganda but u're going to tell everybody in here that all those pictures, videos, interviews, they're all falsified? propaganda = bad, but pictures = true. there's nothing human about a gutted childed... though it may be used for propaganda.

indeed i am young. i am learning, but i do not believe i have complete and outstanding judgement of the situation with the chao fa. i can also say that ur arguments are based upon facts... no matter how reliable... but ur perspective of the situation is still indisputable. i agree with say... 80 percent of claims... it'd be a perfect 100 if u had more insight.

the basis of ur argument on why the LPDR is right is on the grounds that international officials investigate and have a clear understanding of what's happening. if they believe it's not right.. they'll step up. this excludes yet another central duty of government. governments lie. governments work for profit. governments have no right to interfere others. u believe everything u read. this is why i would rather develop my own opinions from interviewees. the problem with that is bias. how is it possible that the hmong guy that visited laos know of the entire situation in laos with the chao fa when he spent one vacation there in actual society? how do u know when the entirety of ur knowledge is secondhand.. thirdhand... or possibly fourthhand. in journalism this is of high relevence.

I say just let this issue for world political science authorities to decide... If they said that there is nothing wrong what this picture than its ok….Chaofa is guilty as charge. If they decides that the killing of women and children are wrong…than so let it be…World leaders are getting pay to solve this kind of problem and have the power to bring peace to a nation. They don’t even care about this situation. Plus, bring peace to Laos is the last thing on their mind. How are they expect regular people like us to debates and fights with each other about who is right and who is wrong… We can say whatever we want and can’t even do a thing about it. We don’t get pay for coming online and debates about this situation, it’s their jobs to do so and they’re sitting at home doing nothing except sitting on their half of million dollars chair and smoking the best cigar. Let just leave everything to the UN…that’s why there is an International law and it’s their job to judge. Why we are in here calling each other names and taken side of to what who is right and who is wrong and be the judgment on this problem. Correct me if I’m wrong…are we wasting our time debating about this...Instead of doing something else…There is no point for arguments and there is nothing there for us to gain…We can come online and get piss-off at each others when reading each other comments….and this didn’t even effect a damn thing… Like I said…there are people out there with power and let them be the judge of all this…lets just hope that we didn’t offend both Hmong and Laos while having a voice conversation with each about this subject.

chao fa is what the 7000+ decided to name their political organization just as neo-hom is another. chao in lao history is attached to things that are great.

i dont think your understanding this correctly, did you not read the scenario i provided? there are many forms of propaganda. iam not saying that all of the videos are fake but they capture only the negative that has happened and not the whole story beforehand.

if america bombs the crap out of an al qaida camp, and women and children get killed how would you feel? most of us would not care because we are informed daily of who and what al qaida is! just because the video captures the suffering or killing of the chao-fa that does not mean the lpdr are murderers and killing only hmongs. the video fails to provide why the chao-fa are being persued by the LPDR, why they are armed, what is there agenda! once you find out all three, one will say to himself "thats what you get for trying to destabilize a sovereign country!" every video that comes out usually states that they are being pursecuted because they are christians or because they helped the CIA. we all know that this is pure BULL$hit!













hello vichai, the killing of women and children are wrong and i condemn it when it happens in this world. but women and children die in wars, what can we do? all i ask is for chao-fa to let the women and children surrender.

let me repeat this. giving up is not an option. those women willl be subject to be raped and those children subject to be orphaned. nobody is responsible for them. we all know that children and women are the innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire. u're right though... darn propogandistic video that captures only the negatives. let's capture the postive sides. oh wait... hmm..

i've long accepted tha chao fa as a resistance group and the actions of the LPDR a form of national defense. i have not for a second accepted any propaganda. ever since my 2 year long run in AF i have praised skepticism. with this skepticism... i don't take anything to be true easily. u have ur point of views and mine, i can reassure u, are very similar... hence the 80 percent statement. i just don't like how u came in here calling ppl here young, for u are the only wise man. i know u have good good sources, but u lack insight. not only that.. it is as if ur analysis that parallels with and is derived from those of other scholars is the right analysis. u have to keep in mind that there are others that disagree with u... even more scholarly figures. u can outargue the ppl in here, but u prolly won't succeed against those. moreover, u have to accept the fact that u do not know of the conditions that occur in that mountainous region. all the information u received are at least from a secondary source. and these non-primary sources could be falsified, censored, and/or embellished. a fact i find that u have not acknowledged.

an alternative scenario. bob rapes a kid in the park. the kid's father kills bob and his family and guts his children. kid's father goes to jail. the world denounces the kids father more than bob.

Thank you thaidumb for clearing up my question and correcting a few of chao lao's posts.

I agree with your above post. I was just going to say the same, thankfully you said it better than what I could have said.

Please, don't start pulling out the young/old card. We're here to discuss opinions and facts, not to put others down.

You're right about all of these things you've written in this particular post, and I agree with it too. You're not the first one that I've heard these things from.

just trying to be neutral

Wow this is unreal..tsk tsk tsk i thought this only happens in Africa. The Laos government eh...

Hey dude it's propaganda. The Hmongs have co-existed with Lao folks for centuries. It's the Hmong terrorists that are causing all the trouble. It takes two to tangle. Cause and Effect.

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/2641.cfm





I hope one day there will be peace among everyone.

behh i dont know who to believe, anyway its not our problem.

it does take two to tangle. who would practice fire on something that could fire back. it's not called practice. u shouldn't know what to believe and nobody here knows what to believe.

the article is completely biased. the hmong being skilled, peaceful, and defenseless while the LPDR is malicious, pugnacious and territorial. the journalist richly describes the scenario of the the those hmong's harsh living conditions without adding to the fact that they do fire back.

in the fifth paragraph he describes the hmong as ragtag guerillas. look up the word guerilla. the word guerilla justifies constant harrassment from the governement.

the current possibilities of why the government does not run a full campaign to wipe the "rebel" hmong out are all speculations. either way it's better than wiping them out.

This is sad man even for you hmong people to say that the hmong chao faw should come out of the jungle and surrender. Dont you think everyone would've already surrendered if the laotian goverent really offered forgiveness to all the hmong people for killing them during the vietnam war? If the government really did want peace for the chaw faw they would just leave them alone in the jungle and quit poisoning them with chemcials. And no the hmong people havent been breaking U.N. rule just tell me one place where they have broken U.N. rules. Even if they did break U.N. rules why the hell should they even care, they dont even know how the outside world exist because they are still in fear of dying and look who's broken UN rule by using chemical warfare. It doesnt matter if your a terrorist or not cuz sometimes the terrorist are the good guys so i dont give a damn if you guys called the chaw faws terriorist. If the Laotian goverenment really did want peace y dont they let the U.N. handle the subject of the chaw faw............there will never be peace so stop saying the laotian offered the hmong peace.........thats the gayest $hit i ever heard..........peace is a dream yet to be achieved........once you commit a crime you will never be forgiven..........meaning they should fight until something good or great happens which will benefit them.......if they surrender now who knows how many's going to die and how many are going to have a chance to live with the laotian government

A very one-sided reasoning...

Yeah sorry not trying to hate and dis on the laotian folks man...........but if the UN are the true peace keeper, the laotian government should've let them handle the business of chaw faws because if no of this was true why would they censor so much from the UN. Just think of it like this, when someone kills ur bro ur not going to forgive and forget you take revenge (true to the most of us and hardly true to like 5%).

i think the only thing u said that made any sense, ironically, is that sometimes terrorists are the good guys. it's ironic because u can't define good and u unintentionally made a logical statement.

the LPDR could be fighting the war and striving for peace. it'd be called preventative war.

the grouping in the mountains for unknown reasons is possibly a rebellious force. even if they were pushed there... it's a rebel group. the assembly is a crime. governments will raid it for stability of the nation and to prevent more casualties.

if the chao fa lives on laotian soil but does not abide by laotian laws... it's a crime. it doesn't matter if society is not affected by it.. but they at least could be affected by it.

I agree... the LPDR should stop using chemical warfare and shoot those chao fa's down instead. that'd make a difference in our books and the UN's....

the LPDR has offered peace. maybe just once.. but they did. that's why there are still hmong around who did not side with the communists.
it might not even be a matter of grudges... there are hmongs in society that have been forgiven. a statement u made yourself.

speaking of logic, somebody kills ur brother.. u take care of it urself. u won't let the court only punish him with volunteer work. letting the UN decide is also a sign of weakness. u don't let anybody walk over u as a nation.

the UN is an ineffective peace keeper. peace keeping from the UN, in many eyes, are seen as a euphemism for war and domination over the weak by richer more powerful countries. this domination is a form of exploitation. there is nothing to exploit in laos. laos says no... and the UN accepted it.