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filipinoy
^the UN & the US(US & RP has a defense treaty)
education
I just don't see that happening. Yes china is strong but we have never had an agressive histroy (at least not that I know of). I think your being maybe just i little paranoid in this. ANd Im pretty sure the philippines doesn't haven't a lameduck government. They just have some internal issues they need to iron out.

QUOTE (JuliusMariaLourdes @ Sep 26 2005, 12:41 PM)
I think the RP owns the Spratley Islands.

But it does not really matter what I think.  What counts most is the fact that China - a very powerful nation compared to the Philippines - can grab any island she wants.  They can even grab the whole Tibet if they want - without dissent.  If we speak in theory: what if China grabs Palawan Island - the biggest island that is closer to the South China sea.  What can the lame duck Philippine government do?  Declare war against China?
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malaccan
Amongts ASEAN countries, I'd say it's a toss between the Philippines and Vietnam.
TakTAk-Boy
QUOTE (education @ Sep 27 2005, 11:12 AM)
I just don't see that happening. Yes china is strong but we have never had an agressive histroy (at least not that I know of). I think your being maybe just i little paranoid in this. ANd Im pretty sure the philippines doesn't haven't a lameduck government. They just have some internal issues they need to iron out.

QUOTE (JuliusMariaLourdes @ Sep 26 2005, 12:41 PM)
I think the RP owns the Spratley Islands.

But it does not really matter what I think.  What counts most is the fact that China - a very powerful nation compared to the Philippines - can grab any island she wants.  They can even grab the whole Tibet if they want - without dissent.  If we speak in theory: what if China grabs Palawan Island - the biggest island that is closer to the South China sea.  What can the lame duck Philippine government do?  Declare war against China?
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its already happened...they just took over one of the islands claimed by the PR claiming to protect chinese fishermen then they fortified the island and warned the PR not to fly or get too close or the deffences will open fire on them.....the gov has been complaining about it but no one really cares about the gov's whining..not even our soo called "ALLY" america.
education
Do you have proof of that? I mean is there link you could direct me to I want to see it with my own eyes, because I haven't even heard of this on the news.

QUOTE (TakTAk-Boy @ Sep 27 2005, 12:41 PM)
QUOTE (education @ Sep 27 2005, 11:12 AM)
I just don't see that happening. Yes china is strong but we have never had an agressive histroy (at least not that I know of). I think your being maybe just i little paranoid in this. ANd Im pretty sure the philippines doesn't haven't a lameduck government. They just have some internal issues they need to iron out.

QUOTE (JuliusMariaLourdes @ Sep 26 2005, 12:41 PM)
I think the RP owns the Spratley Islands.

But it does not really matter what I think.  What counts most is the fact that China - a very powerful nation compared to the Philippines - can grab any island she wants.  They can even grab the whole Tibet if they want - without dissent.  If we speak in theory: what if China grabs Palawan Island - the biggest island that is closer to the South China sea.  What can the lame duck Philippine government do?  Declare war against China?
*

*



its already happened...they just took over one of the islands claimed by the PR claiming to protect chinese fishermen then they fortified the island and warned the PR not to fly or get too close or the deffences will open fire on them.....the gov has been complaining about it but no one really cares about the gov's whining..not even our soo called "ALLY" america.
*

Rock a little
QUOTE (JuliusMariaLourdes @ Sep 26 2005, 11:41 AM)
I think the RP owns the Spratley Islands.

But it does not really matter what I think.  What counts most is the fact that China - a very powerful nation compared to the Philippines - can grab any island she wants.  They can even grab the whole Tibet if they want - without dissent.  If we speak in theory: what if China grabs Palawan Island - the biggest island that is closer to the South China sea.  What can the lame duck Philippine government do?  Declare war against China?
*

tibet is alread in the hand of china
The US is too busy to maintian its internal problems,rita,katrina,and iraq war,afghan war. i don't think they would risk another war for some islands
forrestcat
QUOTE (filipinoy @ Sep 25 2005, 01:43 AM)
i heard they bought 3 submarines from China 2 yrs ago ............lol, ....iono
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No ,Malaysia bought 3 submarines from France. We placed a sub base in Teluk Sepanggar in the territory of Sabah. Yes PRC warships have been entering Malaysian waters often and were pissed off.

China has always refused to take this matter to the International court, that's why this sh#t that has been dragged for too long. If we do go to International court, better ASEAN teaming up to declare that the Spratlys is in SEA territory, then we determine which SEA gets it or whetehr we share it or turn it into an ASEAN tourist zone.
filipinoy
QUOTE (forrestcat @ Sep 28 2005, 03:32 AM)
QUOTE (filipinoy @ Sep 25 2005, 01:43 AM)
i heard they bought 3 submarines from China 2 yrs ago ............lol, ....iono
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No ,Malaysia bought 3 submarines from France.
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lol, i know its not from china
JuliusMariaLourdes
QUOTE (filipinoy @ Sep 23 2005, 10:54 PM)
QUOTE (forrestcat @ Sep 23 2005, 08:37 PM)
Too bad the Philippines are so impoverished to have any capable warships to keep check on the Chinese warships .
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let's welcome the americans again to Clark Air Base & Subic Marine & Navy base in exchange for patroling our waters..
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Hahahaha, let the Americans fu-k the Philippines again - like a mother-whore.
islander
Old topic but since islands were mostly uninhabited and/or pirate hideouts whichever nation is physically occupying an island should be allowed to keep it. This way everybody gets to keep an island which in the future (many islands are just barely above sea level) will probably be underwater with the ocean levels going up. For those who want US in area. Any US citizen can claim for the US an uninhabited island that is not under anyones jurisdiction under the Guano Island Act of 1856 (law is still in effect). Thats how the US got most of those small pacific and caribbean atolls . Guano use to be big business.
Suijen
^ It's not the island that is important, it's the territory and water rights surrounding the island.
Suzuka00
we should use our oil reserves there
Kim Jung Il
China!
Asian Masturbation
[/QUOTE]Kim Jung Il Posted Today, 09:15 PM
China!
[QUOTE]

Vietnam!
Kim Jung Il
QUOTE (Asian Masturbation @ Nov 2 2005, 09:48 PM)
Kim Jung Il Posted Today, 09:15 PM
China!
QUOTE

Vietnam!
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lol your quote thingy doesnt work.
Kim Jung Il


Notice the South China Sea there
supernovasp
QUOTE (Kim Jung Il @ Nov 2 2005, 09:56 PM)


Notice the South China Sea there
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That doesn't mean it's owned by China just as Sea of Japan. Talktohand.gif
Kim Jung Il
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Nov 2 2005, 09:59 PM)
That doesn't mean it's owned by China just as Sea of Japan.  Talktohand.gif
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QUOTE
The first possible recorded human interaction with the Spratly Islands dates back as far as 3BCE and is based on the discovery of coins left by Chinese mariners during the Han Dynasty. According to Chinese official records, since the Han Dynasty, notably during the Jin Dynasty, the Tang Dynasty, the Song Dynasty, and the Ming Dynasty, Chinese fishermen mainly from districts of Hainan and Guangdong have been visiting the Spratly Islands,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratley_Islands
Suijen
PRC claims on the Spratly Islands
The PRC bases its claim to the islands on historical grounds. They state that the Spratly Islands have been an integral part of China for nearly two thousand years and point to ancient manuscripts claiming to refer to the Spratly Islands and remains of Chinese pottery and coins on the islands as proof. Using this argument, the PRC has claimed that the Philippines have “taken” 410 000 square kilometres of its traditional maritime boundary, having taken advantage of the PRC’s poor condition during its exile from international affairs. A number of analysts question the veracity of these claims however;

“It is unconvincing to say that the findings of Han dynasty coins and ceramics in the Spratlys can alone be a justifiable basis of a Chinese 1990s territorial claim. The existence of these artifacts may merely indicate that there were trade relations between China and Southeast Asia rather than showing that there were Chinese settlements in the disputed Spratlys.”

No Chinese official is recorded as having visited the island and temporary contacts by fishermen are not enough to justify any claim based on historical grounds. However, many official records and maps dating back to Han, Yuan, and Qing Dynasties did include the Spratly Isalnds in Chinese territory (There are detailed names of each individual document and dates on the Chinese version of this page).
Kim Jung Il
I doubt that any Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Filipino or Malaysian has even set foot on the island.
oanari
QUOTE (Kim Jung Il @ Nov 2 2005, 09:56 PM)


Notice the South China Sea there
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embarassedlaugh.gif2 A very funny post. Just because it's called South China Sea, this doesn't mean that the whole area is own by China. Geesshhh, I wonder what India would say about the Indian Ocean, does this mean India own the whole Indian Ocean? embarassedlaugh.gif2
Suzuka00
The territory rights should be settled.
LallyJane
The way I look at it, China the big bully should take a hike out on this one! While Vietnam has a natural history and techically Spratly falls under the Philippines territory, China for some reason invented some historical b _ _ _s _ _ _t to have reason for such claim. Look what China did to Tibet. They should stop bullying smaller country such as RP and Vietnam. Enough is enough.
LallyJane
According to the international boundary recognized back then by the U.N. Spratly falls under the Philippines territory. Big bully China should get out of the picture.
Cursah
Exactly how China is the big bully?
LallyJane
QUOTE (Cursah @ Jan 4 2006, 06:44 AM)
Exactly how China is the big bully?
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Envading Tibet, building structures on different parts of Spratly, etc. Where you reading news at all?
education
If China is the big bully then what exactly would you call the japanese who invaded your country and raped as well as murdered your people? icon_neutral.gif
MrBahaw
QUOTE (education @ Jan 4 2006, 03:55 PM)
If China is the big bully then what exactly would you call the japanese who invaded your country and raped as well as murdered your people? icon_neutral.gif
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they would be called bullies but that was back in WWII, you're still talking about WWII? we are talking about now
education
Where exactly is this proof that were illegally occupying sprately?
kermit_criminal
QUOTE (Kim Jung Il @ Nov 2 2005, 10:21 PM)
I doubt that any Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Filipino or Malaysian has even set foot on the island.
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Ha! Malayo Polynesian peoples are more likely to have sailed and discovered the Spratleys then the Chinese, just ask the people of Rapa Nui, Madagascar, Guam etc...
Cursah
QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 5 2006, 01:42 AM)
Envading Tibet, building structures on different parts of Spratly, etc. Where you reading news at all?
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I've been reading news about China sending millions of aid and loans to the Philippines...about those structures and warships roaming around the island...I read about it in 1996. I was still a grade 6 student back then.
LallyJane
QUOTE (education @ Jan 4 2006, 02:55 PM)
If China is the big bully then what exactly would you call the japanese who invaded your country and raped as well as murdered your people? icon_neutral.gif
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Those who did it are rapists and murderers. Simple as that!
LallyJane
QUOTE (Cursah @ Jan 4 2006, 07:14 PM)
I've been reading news about China sending millions of aid and loans to the Philippines...about those structures and warships roaming around the island...I read about it in 1996.  I was still a grade 6 student back then.
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Most rich countries do that to poor countries!
Sirikittong
The Philippines needs a MASSIVE naval restructuring and modernization program. Get missile corvettes and frigates! Aquire subs and start deterring the chinese poachers at threat of gun!

Stand up for yourselves!
EJI
QUOTE (Sirikittong @ Jan 5 2006, 10:47 AM)
The Philippines needs a MASSIVE naval restructuring and modernization program. Get missile corvettes and frigates! Aquire subs and start deterring the chinese poachers at threat of gun!

Stand up for yourselves!
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We need SUbs
Sirikittong
or if you want....maybe the Royal Thai Navy could pay a visit to the philippines and so some action on the south china sea icon_wink.gif LOL!!!


What do you think ejay??


















Sirikittong

RTN Chakri Nareubet


RTN Carrier Task Group









northwestern_student
QUOTE (MING-LOYALIST @ Sep 10 2004, 01:09 PM)
Byron I'm sorry to hear that you lost a relative in the spratly conflict but you need to get the facts right.

After WW2 Paracel islands was occupied by ROC. They only occupied one island(the biggest) but it was understood that all islands belonged to China(ROC/PRC).

In 1974 the South Vietnamese and the north Vietnamese had a cease fire.
The south Vietnamese then claimed that the islands belong to them which infuriated Chiang Kai-shek but fortunately PRC states that the paracel and spratly belongs to 'China'. and PRC will not allow south Vietnamese to illegally occupy them.

To back up the statement PLAN sent a small flotilla of 2 sub hunters and a 2 mine sweepers totalling no more than 2000 tons.

To the PLAN flotilla's surprise the South vietnamese had already landed troops on some islands and also had a flotilla of warships standing by, 4 warships including a destroyer totalling more then 4000 tons.

The warships floated around then both sides backed of as night fell.
Next morning South Viet navy seeing PRC sent only 4 small boats with no reinforcements started to be more aggressive and open fire first.

The battle ended in victory to the PLAN as south Vietnam navy retreated.

PRC then kicked the vietnamese soldiers off the islands and reinforced its warships.

Because there was a typhoon at the time PRC had to supply the warships with submarines.

So please get the info right it was not 11 vs 4 it was 4 vs 4 and only later did the other ships arrive.
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no, byron is right. you need to get your facts straight. the PRC troops seized the paracel islands from the south vietnamese during the battle of Hoang Sa 1974. the ROC, not the PRC, sent a naval task force to occupy the Spratley islands due to philipine encroachment.

the spratley and paracel islands first appeared in Chinese tang dynasty maps (although chinese say earlier, in the han dynasty) and the europeans recognized the territories as belonging to chinese sovereignty in their maps. When the dutch, and later japan seized the islands, the governed the islands in conjunction with taiwan, and when they surrenedered the islands, they all recognized it should go rightfully back to china, as it was first documented.
shashoujian
The Thai Aircraft carrier HTMS Chakri Nareubet is mainly for ceremonial purposes. Besides, Thailand also buys a lot of Chinese weapons systems. It can't possibly compete with the PLAN.
LallyJane
QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Jan 5 2006, 11:39 AM)
no, byron is right. you need to get your facts straight. the PRC troops seized the paracel islands from the south vietnamese during the  battle of Hoang Sa 1974. the ROC, not the PRC, sent a naval task force to occupy the Spratley islands due to philipine encroachment.

the spratley and paracel islands first appeared in Chinese tang dynasty maps (although chinese say earlier, in the han dynasty) and the europeans recognized the territories as belonging to chinese sovereignty in their maps. When the dutch, and later japan seized the islands, the governed the islands in conjunction with taiwan, and when they surrenedered the islands, they all recognized it should go rightfully back to china, as it was first documented.
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China can always make up those baloneys and fake history if they want (Remember Tibet?). But international boundary line shows it falls under that of the Philippines. Did U.N. ever recognize Spratly us Chinese territory? I don't think so!
shashoujian
QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 5 2006, 05:37 PM)
China can always make up those baloneys and fake history if they want (Remember Tibet?). But international boundary line shows it falls under that of the Philippines. Did U.N. ever recognize Spratly us Chinese territory? I don't think so!
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LallyJane, please just shut up. If you want to bring up the Tibet issue, bring it to the Chinese chat. Otherwise, don't post BS that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. You obviously don't know what the hell it is you're talking about. sure.gif

Historically, the Spratley Islands is clearly Chinese. I'm not sure about previous trips to it by locals in various SEA countries, but it has never been historically documented. Therefore, it is safe to say that the Spratleys is historically Chinese. But seeing as some of you are saying "Well, our ancestors were there a long time ago." Then does that mean Taiwan is also yours? Absolutely not.
education
How is it we make up baloney. If you consider china has the worlds oldest civilzation then it wouldn't be hard for you to understand why historically alot of the islands or territories surrounding china has been claimed by us. You look at the philippines some of the earliest settlers were chinese but if we were really the bullies everybody here claims to be don't you think we would have claimed that for ourselves along time ago..Think.

QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 5 2006, 06:37 PM)
China can always make up those baloneys and fake history if they want (Remember Tibet?). But international boundary line shows it falls under that of the Philippines. Did U.N. ever recognize Spratly us Chinese territory? I don't think so!
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LallyJane
QUOTE (shashoujian @ Jan 5 2006, 05:01 PM)
LallyJane, please just shut up. If you want to bring up the Tibet issue, bring it to the Chinese chat. Otherwise, don't post BS that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. You obviously don't know what the hell it is you're talking about. sure.gif

Historically, the Spratley Islands is clearly Chinese. I'm not sure about previous trips to it by locals in various SEA countries, but it has never been historically documented. Therefore, it is safe to say that the Spratleys is historically Chinese. But seeing as some of you are saying "Well, our ancestors were there a long time ago." Then does that mean Taiwan is also yours? Absolutely not.
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Just a reminder, this is a free forum where people express their opinion. If you cannot take the heat, then get out of the kitchen! Don't be such a hot head my friend!
shashoujian
QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 7 2006, 10:44 AM)
Just a reminder, this is a free forum where people express their opinion. If you cannot take the heat, then get out of the kitchen! Don't be such a hot head my friend!
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Are you dyslexic? Can you NOT interpret what others are trying to tell you? If you want to talk about Tibet, come to Chinese chat, we'd be more than willing to discuss. Bringing up Tibet here just shows that you are the one that can't "take the heat." And Tibet has nothing to do with Filipino chat.
LallyJane
QUOTE (education @ Jan 6 2006, 07:31 AM)
How is it we make up baloney. If you consider china has the worlds oldest civilzation then it wouldn't be hard for you to understand why historically alot of the islands or territories surrounding china has been claimed by us. You look at the philippines some of the earliest settlers were chinese but if we were really the bullies everybody here claims to be don't you think we would have claimed that for ourselves along time ago..Think.
*


I disagree, the viking are said to have settled the new world first. That don't give them the rights for automatic rights on America. As for your statement that some of the earliest settlers were chinese, I also disagree. The original settlers of the Philippines are Aetas or Negritos. Long before Malay brothers settled in the Philippines. Borneans before settling to Luzon must past by the Spratleys too to get to their destination.

My question is this, how come China don't want U.N. intervention on this?
LallyJane
QUOTE (shashoujian @ Jan 7 2006, 11:40 AM)
Are you dyslexic? Can you NOT interpret what others are trying to tell you? If you want to talk about Tibet, come to Chinese chat, we'd be more than willing to discuss. Bringing up Tibet here just shows that you are the one that can't "take the heat." And Tibet has nothing to do with Filipino chat.
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Calling people names won't resolve an issue my friend. Is this how you Chinese settle things? The only reason Tibet was mentioned is to build up my argument of China's tendency. Dyslexic you said? No I'm not. Sorry but I'm not the type that will go down your level. I was raised to be level headed. How about you?
northwestern_student
QUOTE (LallyJane @ Jan 7 2006, 01:09 PM)
I disagree, the viking are said to have settled the new world first. That don't give them the rights for automatic rights on America. As for your statement that some of the earliest settlers were chinese, I also disagree. The original settlers of the Philippines are Aetas or Negritos. Long before Malay brothers settled in the Philippines. Borneans before settling to Luzon must past by the Spratleys too to get to their destination.

My question is this, how come China don't want U.N. intervention on this?
*


well...the vikings never claimed all of america, and besides, they left afterwards. the earliest settlers weren't chinese, but it was the chinese who claimed them first, as it first showed up under tang dynasty maps as chinese territory. the europeans even recognized islands as part of the ming, and later qing dynasty in their maps. that's why when the dutch, and later, the japanese surrendered the spratleys, they surrendered it to china.

china doesn't want UN intervention most likely because China is one country, and SE is many countries, and no SE country wants to see china get the islands.
shashoujian
No, Chinese were not the first settlers to the Philippines. Like I said earlier, there is no evidence that previous locals in the Philippines of ever passing - nevermind settling on the Spratleys. The Chinese have historical evidence since it's been documented in Chinese historical records (starting from the Han Dynasty).

As for calling people names, I'm sorry, but it's not exactly my problem that I'm unable to read. As I said earlier, we can talk about Tibet, go to the Chinese section because all those previous comments you made about Tibet is completely false.

As far as I'm concerned, you have no valid argument. It's historical proof that the Spratleys is Chinese. And again, there is no evidence presented by the Philippines to suggest it was ever part of it's territory. This is why the Philippines never asserted claim until 1956.

And NWS, is there evidence to suggest that local Filipinos at the time of ever settling there? Show me.
northwestern_student
well...there is no evidence that chinese nor the phillipines actually settled on the islands. to my knowledge, ancient chinese mariners just happened to chance on these islands and claim them for their mother country, similar to what europeans did in the new world. some chinese fishermen may have used the islands as a base for commercial activity, but it was never a permanent venture.
shashoujian
That wasn't my question. I was asking if locals of what is now the Philippines had ever passed by (forget settling) the Spratleys?
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