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catman
http://www.antiwar.com/bandow/?articleid=10645

Interesting article by a libertarian arguing for the withdrawl of US troops from South Korea.

QUOTE
he United States has maintained troops in South Korea for more than a half century. Since 1950, Washington has defended the Republic of Korea (ROK) with blood and treasure. During that time the ROK has gone from an impoverished, authoritarian state to a prosperous democracy. Yet America's commitment remains essentially unchanged. Why?

It's certainly not because South Korea appreciates Washington's efforts. ROK President Roh Moo-hyun recently complained that "clinging to the crotch of the U.S.'s pants and hiding behind the U.S.'s @$$" suggests his nation is too dependent on America.

Very true. It's time for Washington to help by ending its defense guarantee to the South.

The U.S. has begun reducing troop levels, as well as moving the bulk of its soldiers out of Seoul. Moreover, Washington recently agreed to turn over wartime command responsibility to South Korea in 2012. Indeed, the U.S. was prepared to do so in 2009, but ROK officials, who long had demanded the transfer, feared doing so would leave them vulnerable to a North Korean attack.

These steps are welcome, but remain inadequate half-measures. America should initiate a much more rapid drawdown of its forces. Five years from now there shouldn't be a single U.S. soldier based in South Korea to turn over command responsibility to the ROK.

Alliances are created in specific geopolitical circumstances for specific geopolitical purposes. For instance, there was good reason for Washington to intervene in 1950 to prevent the South from being absorbed by Kim Il-sung's North Korea.

South Korea was an economic and political mess. Pyongyang possessed a stronger military than the ROK (which had been denied American heavy weapons because of its threat to attack the North). The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) was backed by China and the Soviet Union. With the Cold War raging globally, a geopolitical loss in Korea might destabilize other nations (such as Japan) and regions (such as Europe).

The world looks very different today. The Cold War is over, the Soviet Union has disbanded, and the People's Republic of China has discarded Maoism. Japan sports the world's second biggest economy; most other East Asian states are allied to or friendly with the U.S.

Moreover, South Korea has surpassed the North on virtually every measure of national power. The ROK possesses roughly 40 times the GDP and twice the population of North Korea. The South has a vast technological edge, is engaged internationally, and even trades more with China than does Pyongyang.

Finally, though Seoul's military is numerically smaller, it is qualitatively superior to that possessed by the North. South Korea spends between three and four times as much as the DPRK on the military. The ROK's reserve capacity and potential support is even greater.

Why does the U.S. still have troops in South Korea?

The fact that the South can well defend itself is reason enough to bring home America's forces. But that's not all. As President Roh has indicated, many South Koreans bridle at their dependence on Washington. Since they no longer need rely on the U.S., they dislike the inevitable cost, especially to their pride, of doing so.

Instead of fighting to stay on the peninsula, Washington should allow the ROK to take on responsibilities commensurate with its abilities. Seoul wants to be a significant international player. Seoul should defend itself.

Moreover, most South Koreans no longer feel threatened by the North. The younger generation, especially, is more skeptical of America's role in Northeast Asia, and more favorable towards both the PRC and North Korea. It seems silly to defend a country that no longer sees much need to be defended.

Indeed, U.S. officials have begun talks with Pyongyang intended to lead towards diplomatic recognition. After six years of refusing to negotiate with the North, the Bush administration's new Korean policy appears to be detente with its former enemy. War is still possible, but seems ever less likely. America should reduce the chance still further by removing the only forces positioned to come into contact with Pyongyang.

For some alliance advocates the defense of Korea long ago ceased to be an argument for defending Korea. Instead, they argue that U.S. forces serve a "dual use" function. That is, a garrison that protects the ROK also serves other military purposes in the region.

But Japan isn't going to attack either Korea. It's hard to imagine Washington sending its Korea-based Army division to hold fractious Indonesia together, restore democracy in Thailand, or battle Burma's brutal military junta. No one threatens Australia and New Zealand. Rather, the only plausible alternative mission is "containing" China.

It's a dubious goal. There isn't much that a small American ground contingent could achieve against such a populous and geographically expansive power. Whatever the future course of U.S.-China relations, American participation in a ground war against the PRC seems inconceivable.

Nor does the ROK have any interest in becoming a base for U.S. operations against Beijing. Two years ago President Roh stated that Washington would require his government's permission to use its Korean-based forces elsewhere in the region, and that South Korea would not be drawn into a needless war. Although the conservative opposition might triumph in Korea's presidential election at the end of the year, the Grand National Party seems no more likely to allow America to turn the ROK's next door neighbor, a potential regional or global superpower, into a permanent enemy.

Indeed, Washington has no need to "contain" the PRC. Beijing is decades away from military equality with America. Moreover, if the two nations' interests clash, it will be over Washington's continued domination of East Asia. The U.S. will remain influential in the region irrespective of China's development. Attempting to keep Beijing down cannot justify war.

As for America's allies, it is up to them to defend their own interests. Washington should devote its greatest effort to reducing the likelihood of future conflict.

The U.S. certainly need not be a constant meddler in East Asia, concerned with day-to-day geopolitical controversies. Rather, America should look on from afar, prepared to back up allied states in the unlikely event that a hegemonic power threatens to dominate Eurasia. War is in no way inevitable, and should not be treated as such.

The U.S.-ROK alliance has fulfilled its purpose. It no longer serves the interest of America or South Korea. It's time for Washington to schedule a geopolitical retirement party.
flower pig
I agree. I'd like to see all our troops leave yesterday.
yaburihong
us stay.. england germany.korea,japan.
becoz... enemy is so closer ... embarassedlaugh.gif
Sabretooth
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Eastern Knight
QUOTE(Sabretooth @ Mar 11 2007, 05:00 AM) *

I think it would be fascinating to see what would happen if the U.S. just withdrew troops form everywhere.

Oh, that's right, we tried it twice. Once just before WWI and once before WWII.



America has never pulled all of its soldiers from around the world. Do tell when America supposedly pulled all of its troops out of Asia and Latin America that when WWI occured? And since there were no American Soldiers/bases in Europe before WWI or WW2 and American Soldiers were still in Asia like the Philipines I am curious about the validity of your claim.
catman
QUOTE(Sabretooth @ Mar 11 2007, 06:00 AM) *

I think it would be fascinating to see what would happen if the U.S. just withdrew troops form everywhere.

Oh, that's right, we tried it twice. Once just before WWI and once before WWII.


Care to elaborate? icon_confused.gif
BlueAway
They like your women.
CJK
Americans would be fools to leave voluntarily.
jesus89
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Mar 11 2007, 01:28 PM) *

They like your women.


as if you know something about women?
tgzo
Yes, US men enjoy easy Korean women who flock them there, what happen to all the men in Korea needing their US daddy to defend them, how can they be so nationalist when they are so weak? kiss.gif
namjanurse7
im not sure if US will withdraw its troop but US is passing 100% control down to South Koreas government around 2010-2011. its confirmed.
tinman01
Its called commitment. We have a treaty and that has promised US support. On 1 hand people complain when the USA withdraws its support claiming we dont honor the commitment. On the other its a complaint that its interferance.
I think most Americans would prefer to save the money and close the bases. I am sure N. Korea feels the same way but for other reasons.
The same with the bases in Japan and Germany. I wonder how many times due to the locations of these bases the US has responded to world crisis in a timely manner that would not have been possible otherwise?
I can understand the feeling. I would detest having a russian base on US soil or any other for that matter. Hell I detest the UN being on US soil given its level of corruption and the many abuses that have been perpetrated by UN officials since its begining. We dont hear a lot of press on it because the US Government knows what effect that would have on the public.
Lets all hope for the day of reunification between the Korea's and hopefully the opening of the DMZ.
Eastern Knight
QUOTE(tgzo @ Mar 12 2007, 08:31 AM) *

Yes, US men enjoy easy Korean women who flock them there, what happen to all the men in Korea needing their US daddy to defend them, how can they be so nationalist when they are so weak? kiss.gif


Even though your entire post is racist I don't understand why an Asian would claim another Asian Ethnicitys women are "easy" If you knew anything about the ROK Military [which you obviously don't] you wouldn't make such a comment about ROK needing US Troops the extra firepower is extrmely helpful and would cut down the death toll but wouldn't affect the outcome of the war. Really how would 30,000 [I think 16-17,000 are combat troops] stop 5 millon North Korean Soldiers [equipment not included] As it is attacking a whole ethnicity over THE INTERNET is considered to be cowardly and "weak" to most people.

I have too much time on my hands embarassedlaugh.gif
flower pig
QUOTE
The same with the bases in Japan and Germany. I wonder how many times due to the locations of these bases the US has responded to world crisis in a timely manner that would not have been possible otherwise?


It would have been much more difficult to fight the Afghanistan and Iraq wars without them.
KenNam321
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Mar 11 2007, 01:28 PM) *

They like your women.



I heard chinese women prefer white d*cks more...skanks. biggthumpup.gif
Jasel
QUOTE(tgzo @ Mar 12 2007, 09:31 AM) *

Yes, US men enjoy easy Korean women who flock them there, what happen to all the men in Korea needing their US daddy to defend them, how can they be so nationalist when they are so weak? kiss.gif



QUOTE(KenNam321 @ Mar 13 2007, 05:31 PM) *

I heard chinese women prefer white d*cks more...skanks. biggthumpup.gif


warnings and 5 day temps
enomosiki
QUOTE(tgzo @ Mar 12 2007, 08:31 AM) *
Yes, US men enjoy easy Korean women who flock them there, what happen to all the men in Korea needing their US daddy to defend them, how can they be so nationalist when they are so weak? kiss.gif


Only the idiots who boast and brag off about how they appear to be strong are truly weak, whereas the truly strong ones are the ones who do not say anything at all and merely laugh at the idiots for the lively entertainment offered.

And, the last time I've heard, China's currently having a problem with highly imbalanced ratio of men to women in their population. I don't know why many of the idiots who can't even pick up a girl, even if their lives depended on it, would be making fun of others about other people's ability to do so. shrug.gif

QUOTE(tinman01 @ Mar 12 2007, 04:01 PM) *
Its called commitment. We have a treaty and that has promised US support. On 1 hand people complain when the USA withdraws its support claiming we dont honor the commitment. On the other its a complaint that its interferance.
I think most Americans would prefer to save the money and close the bases. I am sure N. Korea feels the same way but for other reasons.
The same with the bases in Japan and Germany. I wonder how many times due to the locations of these bases the US has responded to world crisis in a timely manner that would not have been possible otherwise?
I can understand the feeling. I would detest having a russian base on US soil or any other for that matter. Hell I detest the UN being on US soil given its level of corruption and the many abuses that have been perpetrated by UN officials since its begining. We dont hear a lot of press on it because the US Government knows what effect that would have on the public.
Lets all hope for the day of reunification between the Korea's and hopefully the opening of the DMZ.


Only the younger generation of South Koreans go nuts about the U.S. presence. The older generation, however, can't be any more happier. It's really a sad thing. The gratitude of the South Koreans owe to the Americans are dying very quickly as the new, younger generation of population begins to take over.

One thing I really hated about the anti-U.S. activities held in South Korea was the proposed removal of the MacArthur statue in Inchon. The idiots in South Korea who just go after the U.S. just for the fun of it without having any solid reasons don't even know that without the U.S., they and their families wouldn't even exist at all.
baal
I think the ROK-USA alliance is doomed. From what I can tell the people of SK detest the presence of USFK on their soil, and the related interference and dominance. Americans are no longer welcome in SK. This is understandable, but makes the continued American presence untenable. From an American perspective I think the ROK should defend itself. American taxpayers should not have to bear the burden of defending SK. The USFK should withdraw immediately, and the Korean people should pay for their own defense. The ROK and the USA are friends and allies in name only.

I understand that an American withdrawal from SK will diminish American power in NE Asia, and increase the possibility of Sino-Japanese conflict, but the hostility of the SK people leaves the USA no choice. The geographical location of Korea, lying between China and Japan, is unfortunate, but this is not America's problem. When the USFK withdraws from the Korean Peninsula historic patterns may reassert themselves. If that happens the fate of the Korean people will be determined in Beijing and/or Tokyo. That's a shame, but life goes on.
Kian Seng
QUOTE(baal @ Mar 13 2007, 11:42 PM) *

I think the ROK-USA alliance is doomed. From what I can tell the people of SK detest the presence of USFK on their soil, and the related interference and dominance. Americans are no longer welcome in SK. This is understandable, but makes the continued American presence untenable. From an American perspective I think the ROK should defend itself. American taxpayers should not have to bear the burden of defending SK. The USFK should withdraw immediately, and the Korean people should pay for their own defense. The ROK and the USA are friends and allies in name only.

I understand that an American withdrawal from SK will diminish American power in NE Asia, and increase the possibility of Sino-Japanese conflict, but the hostility of the SK people leaves the USA no choice. The geographical location of Korea, lying between China and Japan, is unfortunate, but this is not America's problem. When the USFK withdraws from the Korean Peninsula historic patterns may reassert themselves. If that happens the fate of the Korean people will be determined in Beijing and/or Tokyo. That's a shame, but life goes on.


What if United States left... and N.Korea decided to attack the South. Then you would regret asking America to leave. America protects all countries who claim to be a Democracy. There is no benifit for the U.S. in being in S.Korea other than the fact they want to Protect Demoratic States.
baal
QUOTE(Kian Seng @ Mar 13 2007, 10:11 PM) *

What if United States left... and N.Korea decided to attack the South. Then you would regret asking America to leave. America protects all countries who claim to be a Democracy. There is no benifit for the U.S. in being in S.Korea other than the fact they want to Protect Demoratic States.


I wish the SK people peace, prosperity and freedom. However, America can not protect another democratic country if the people of that country are hostile to the presence of American forces on their soil.
Sam Gyupsal
QUOTE(baal @ Mar 14 2007, 01:47 AM) *

I wish the SK people peace, prosperity and freedom. However, America can not protect another democratic country if the people of that country are hostile to the presence of American forces on their soil.


They aren't hostile, honestly. While many young people show contempt for the American military in Korea, the older people who actually make the rules can still remember the time when the U.N., which was mostly the U.S., came and helped them fight off the Soviet-backed North. Most intelligent people know that it was the North that provoked the Korean War. It is the North that still wants to finish the Korean War.

And, if the fighting started tomorrow, I guarantee that the minor contempt shown by college age kids with educations and attitudes and farmers with rice crops to protect would disappear instantly.
yaburihong
i think korea need more strong Military alliance with us,,
becoz , Korean neighborhood is no the country that can believe.

It is our enemy all historically
Mua
QUOTE(yaburihong @ Mar 14 2007, 02:17 PM) *

i think korea need more strong Military alliance with us,,
becoz , Korean neighborhood is no the country that can believe.

It is our enemy all historically

just because japan and china have been enemies with korea historically that doesn't mean that korea can't maintain good relations on her own.
jy76tn
Most college age Korean kids are distrustful of bigger powers. Now they claim they distrust the USA. In the past they would distrusted the USA and the Soviet Union. It's all about weaker nations defending themselves from bigger powers. For example, Che Guevera distrusted the USA and the Soviet Union. That's a fact many people are not aware of. Bin Laden now fights the USA. In the past he fought the Soviet Union with American help.

The role in which socialism and free market preference in radical college thought is debateable. The radical college position is mostly about the weak defending themselves from the strong. Most average Koreans like a free market economy. They don't express contempt for the USA because of capitalism. They are angry because they feel the US economy and culture is being pushed too hard on them. They also feel America's NK policy does not work. They don't want war. Thier position is similar to 1960's American Vietnam protesters. They hold a little grudge against the USA because of the repression of free speech in the past by American backed governments. However, these same kids eat at McDonalds and generally don't hate average American people.

Overall, I agree a little with the radicals but I feel sometimes they can go too far. For example, some of them claim that Stalin, Mao, and Hitler wanted to create a better world and other silly statements. That doesn't represent the views of average Koreans I think.
Ju-mong
The article sounds like a report by a naive high schooler who doesn't realize that the USA has at least 737 military bases in other peoples countries all around the world, and more every year.

America we know it is an empire.
getoffme
Why is the U.S. still in Korea?

Because:

A - the U.S. loves recieving those white envelopes Koreans so freely give
B - Korea is too weak of a country to defend itself and knows this
C - it's the U.S.'s way to control $hit here in the Asian east.
yaburihong
QUOTE(getoffme @ Mar 18 2007, 07:31 AM) *

Why is the U.S. still in Korea?

Because:

A - the U.S. loves recieving those white envelopes Koreans so freely give
B - Korea is too weak of a country to defend itself and knows this
C - it's the U.S.'s way to control $hit here in the Asian east.

.,.the reason..exist dirty evil communist so close to our land
BlueAway
Yes keep those American soldiers on your land. Let them enjoy your women. Don't you know that white and black US soldiers stationed in korea hold competitions on who can bang the most local korean girls?
Jarhier
is it rape or are they just slutty?
BlueAway
QUOTE(Jarhier @ Mar 18 2007, 12:22 PM) *

is it rape or are they just slutty?


I can't say because I've never been to Korea. But i've heard a lot of bad things and the US soldiers stationed there do indulge in a lot of sexual adventures. It's like Thailand except its not as bad.
Jarhier
what happens in thailand? O_o
BlueAway
QUOTE(Jarhier @ Mar 18 2007, 12:32 PM) *

what happens in thailand? O_o


You have to ask? It's pretty obvious what goes in there. It's the white man's sexual haven.
Jarhier
dont know much about thailand embarassedlaugh.gif i did heard something about child traffking sorts
BlueAway
It's basically heaven for all the asiaphiles.
yaburihong
Do not Thailand condescension
Thailand is the free citizen main country

thailand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Four-dimensional blackhole that can not exceed >>>>>>>>Specific wicked communist
Sam Gyupsal
1. "Asiaphile" is the biggest joke word invented by angry Asian males with an inferiority complex.

2. Saying complete and 100% childish and insecure BS like BlueAway is saying shows that those feelings are pure racism and serve to do nothing but make other Asian males angry toward white people. One does not have to look far to see the sexual exploits of people from all nations, including China and Korea, in areas where travellers frequent.

3. With all of the tv commericials in Asia showing Asian males with white girls, eyelid surgeries to make Asian eyes bigger and more round, or the countless skin whitening creams available on the market, do you hear anyone saying that Asian men are "whiteyphiles?" No? Do you think it's because white men are confident enough not to worry about it? Do you think it's because white men are not immature enough to say BS like that? Only insecure people who can't get girlfriends say or agree with BlueAway's sentiments. It's called an excuse, and he/she needs one in order to feel more warm and fuzzy about being a loser.

4. FYI, many of the hookers in Itaewon that provide services to these "Asiaphile ( icon_lame.gif ) white and black GIs" are Chinese or Russian. (According to some of my GI friends... laugh.gif )

5. BlueAway sounds like a native american from an old John Wayne movie... "White man come to take our land, our women, and give us fire water and rotten meat!" laugh.gif Get a clue, a life, or, better yet, a girlfriend.
Sabretooth
.
BlueAway
QUOTE(Sabretooth @ Mar 18 2007, 07:22 PM) *

Except that 90 percent of the prostitution in Thailand is with Asian customers.

Your racism is so obvious. Do you see it, or are you proud to be a racist?


I'm not racist but I'm proud to hate people like yourself.
Sam Gyupsal
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Mar 18 2007, 06:50 PM) *

I'm not racist...


QUOTE(BlueAway @ Mar 18 2007, 11:17 AM) *

Yes keep those American soldiers on your land. Let them enjoy your women. Don't you know that white and black US soldiers stationed in korea hold competitions on who can bang the most local korean girls?


What about the asian-American soldiers? Dose it matter if they "enjoy your women?" Is it just the blacks and whites that shouldn't have sex in Korea?

QUOTE(BlueAway @ Mar 18 2007, 11:35 AM) *

You have to ask? It's pretty obvious what goes in there. It's the white man's sexual haven.


What you meant to say was that "I want to tell you it's the 'white man's sexual heaven' even though it isn't so that you can feel angry against white people." That's called racist propoganda, and it is used by groups such as the KKK, radical Islamists, and , apparently, insecure little Chinese boys.

QUOTE(BlueAway @ Mar 18 2007, 06:50 PM) *

I'm not racist...


OK, but you're definitely trying on the white hood.
Sabretooth
.
Eastern Knight
I like Cheese.
Captain Corea
QUOTE(Sabretooth @ Mar 18 2007, 07:05 PM) *

Let me translate: You are racist to the core, but you don't want to admit it here. And think you are clever for hiding it behind another one of your peurile petty insults.


He's not that clever.

Anyone reading his posts can smell the racism.
Eastern Knight
Since Sabretooth is racist himself he has no business pointing out Racism in other members. I think Blueaway is bitter about the $hitty treatment of Asians and more-so Asian men in Western Culture and Western Mass-Media with the racism and sterotypes. If I recall correctly the majority of Racial Hate crimes in America are against Asians not Arabs or Blacks. People like Blueaway are going to be very biased/Racist against Whites.
education
Blueaway does come off as sort of an angry bitter asian male but sabretooth is just outright rude in his comments I definitely agree with easternknight sabretooth does not have any right calling anybody racist when he made what I felt to be a pretty racist comment too. At least with blueaway hes not arrogant and conceited.
Sam Gyupsal
Anyone of Asian heritage, myself included, should be embarassed by BlueAway and people that think like him. What he says is, "Every other culture is holding us down. We're to weak to help ourselves. Other cultures and nationalities are too strong for us and we are too weak to compete with them."

See, he blames every problem he has on whites, the Japanese, etc, and by that says that whites, the Japanese, etc. are superior to him. It makes me sick.

QUOTE(Eastern Knight @ Mar 18 2007, 08:22 PM) *

If I recall correctly the majority of Racial Hate crimes in America are against Asians not Arabs or Blacks.


That is 100% false. 65% of racial hate crimes in the US are against blacks.


Using that to defend his racism is pointless and futile. Racism should never be tolerated. If you accept BlueAway's racism, you should have no problem with any "racist" statements made by Japanese or White people.



Sabretooth
.
education
If your referring to me I wasnt jumping to his side but I really dont see how me opposing that stupid comment of yours you made is any indication that Im taking his side. As far as I see it your comment isnt any more constructive then his so just stop it with your accusations already it wont work.

QUOTE(Sabretooth @ Mar 18 2007, 09:51 PM) *

Agreed. But, this being AF, some of his fellow racists jump on his side, or maybe they are also his accounts, who knows.

Wrong is not right just because someone of a race you Approve of does it, tovarischi.

bunder!
QUOTE(Sabretooth @ Mar 18 2007, 08:51 PM) *

Agreed. But, this being AF, some of his fellow racists jump on his side, or maybe they are also his accounts, who knows.

Wrong is not right just because someone of a race you Approve of does it, tovarischi.

lol just shut up, youre pathetic
education
It seems sabretooth is back from doing whatever the hell he was doing. Most likely he got bored jerking off to hentai and decided to come back on to AF to explain why he has this scary obsession. And for the love of god please take the hideous pic off your sig and avatar its disturbing laugh.gif
BlueAway
I mean, look at this Sabretooth guy. Flaunting his white male macho-ness, wearing his wifebeater shirt and showing off his muscles. It's so obvious what his intensions are here. He's probably some loser in real life dreaming that a beautiful japanese girl from the numerous japanese comics he reads will come save his pathetic life. loser.
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