F-22s to Japan
By Bill Gertz
April 20, 2007

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20...8449r_page2.htm

Japan wants to purchase up to 100 of the Air Force's ultramodern F-22 warplanes, and the subject is expected to be on the agenda of the meeting next week between President Bush and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Pro-China officials in the Bush administration are working against the sale of the advanced warplane, which has stealth characteristics and is expected to bring harsh criticism from China, which views Japan's more internationalist military posture as a threat.

The F-22 sale to Japan is favored by conservatives who say Japan, the closest U.S. ally in Asia, needs the warplanes to counter threats from both North Korea, where missiles could be pre-emptively attacked before launch, and China, which is building up forces opposite Taiwan, where China has deployed about 900 missiles within range of the island.

"One hundred F-22s in hands of Japan could change the Taiwan balance of power for two decades," said one official in favor of the estimated $30 billion sale. "The F-22 based in Okinawa could not only fight off [China's People's Liberation Army] air force but strike inside China; it is invisible to radar."

An Air Force spokesman said sales of the jet to Japan would require changing a 1998 law that prohibits the Pentagon from selling any F-22s to a foreign government.

waste of time and money for all i know

they arent gonna get it, the americans wont sell

isnt the f22 one of usa's top aircrafts? are they that stupid to even outsource one of their top tech military techs

The F-22A is the silver bullet-the current 'ultimate fighter' of the world and the first of the 5th Gen. fighters that is also the only one currently in service ATM.

Its technical advantage, especially in the stealth and networked sensors, over any current fighter today is enormous-the Russians and Indians are still developing the counter to it and are at least 15-20 years behind the F-22 which by that time the US will probably have the successor to the F-22 in service, most likely along the lines of a UCAV such as the X-45 and X-47 in developement for the USN now.

If I was the USA I wouldn't be outsourcing the F-22 any time soon due to the extremely sensitive technology in it. If Japan were to obtain it, the PLAAF could not field a credible counter to it for at 25 years like the article said. Shenying Aircraft Corp. and Chengdu Aircraft Corp. are only now beginning to work on the J-XX/J-13/14 5th Gen. fighter-with no indication it may be as good as the F22A.

Most likely though, Japan will have to wait for at least 6-10 years by which time the F-22C will be in service and then Japan can buy the F-22A like in the 1970's where the US allowed Japan to buy the F-15A after the F-15C came into USAF service.

In the meantime they probably have to purchase the F-15+ 'Super Eagle' with thrust vectoring and AESA and extra goodies-a more advanced fighter than the SKorean F-15K and Singaporean F-15S and more than enough to deal with anything short of a 5th Gen. aircraft the PLAAF can throw at them.

Lol, the manufacterers of the F-22 have been lobbying hard for it sale to foreign countries long before it was completed. This is on the one hand.

On the other, these @sswipes simultaneously gripe (lobby hard) to the US congress that America needs new weapons systems to keep up with the potential threat them funny looking furriner's, since they have such advanced weaponry too. Nice.

This is true with much if not most of the defense contractors. With the F-22, it is particularly stupid since unlike previous generation fighters, some of the most advanced avionics could be held back since the plane could fly without it, whereas with the F-22, basically of the sensitive technology must go with it or else it can't be flown.

A central M.O. of Marxism-Leninism is to diabolically create crisis so you can "solve" it.

I guess this then should be called Capitalism-Leninism.

The only reason that the manufacturers want to sell the F-22 abroad is because the USAF is only buying 183 Raptors instead of 381 as planned, driving up the per-plane cost. If you want to reduce the cost, then don't sell abroad. Rather, just buy more Raptors for the USAF as originally planned.

^No. It's about making money, not reducing the cost.

And yes, I know that reducing the cost boosts the bottom line.

Israel is another country interested in the Stealth Fighers.


ISRAEL ASKS US STEALTH FIGHTERS
Friday, April 20, 2007 - FreeMarketNews.com

In the face of Iran's race to obtain nuclear weapons, the Israel Air Force has expressed new found interest in receiving the F-22 - a US-developed fifth generation stealth fighter jet - and has requested that the Defense Ministry present the request on its behalf to the Pentagon, The Jerusalem Post has learned. -Jerusalem Post

Click Here For The Full Story

why can't japan just build their own. it not like they don't have the capablities not to. fu-k just get Honda on the job!

America would probably not offer Israel the F-22 anymore, not after Israel's recent arms cooperation with China. Hey, the US government wouldn't even allow Israel to participate in the F-35.

Article in Aviation Week Confirms Seriousness of Talks

There is an article in the latest edition of Aviation Week (23 April 2007) that confirms the Washington Times reports. Japan's military leadership has reportedly been insisting that the American F-22 should THE top contendor for Japan's next air superiority fighter. This is in spite of continued reluctance on the part of the US Congress to release the F-22 for export:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/sto...y%20Wish%20List

The article quotes US Gen Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as saying: "I'm aware the Japanese are interested in the F-22. I'm also aware of our concerns about what we export and don't export of our high technologies. The Japanese are very close friends. We're committed to protecting Japan, so we'll work our way through it. We all need to be concerned about both ballistic and cruise missile defense. It's something that we . . . need to work on."

According to industry sources quoted by the article, "The U.S. Air Force and the Japanese Ministry of Defense want the sale to take place, but what's missing this time is someone pushing it at the State Dept. level. There needs to be political pressure, but right now there's no vocal advocate."

It all boils down to the question: How likely is information to slip from Japan into the hands of the Chinese?

If it's likely, then America won't sell. If not likely, then probably America will sell.

Why don't the US sell them the F-35 instead....if u sell them the F-22....well there goes ur air dominance

If I'm correct, the JASDF wants a twin-engined fighter. The long vast spaces of ocean, plus scattered distance of islands, make it more practical to have 2 engines in case one should fail. With 1 left, you can still make your way home should one engine fail. (this is why all of the F-X candidates - Eurofighter, F-15E, and Super Hornet - have been twin-engine jets.)

I'd like to see JASDF go for Lightning II, though.

As long as the stealth bombers aren't being sold, then I don't see any worries.

Actually they don't believe it or not. Just like why Japan doesn't build 300 seat passenger jets.

F-22 FOR SOME SKYLINES

Wrong. The F-22A poses significantly higher threat level than any other aircrafts in the world. Although the F-22A lacks the payload that of, lets say, the B-2, it has much smaller RCS rating. A squadron of F-22A can be loaded with SDB to fly in and neutralize any SAM batteries and ground-based RADAR sites, with other "conventional" bombers and fighter-bombers following in after the F-22A and mop up the rest without risking themselves to AAA fire.

The F-22A is such a tremendous force-multiplier that it's not even funny when you consider its potency.

Interesting article. Fifth sentence of the third paragraph.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htintel/a...s/20070426.aspx

im just saying that its better than them buying B-2s cause obviously they would be using them to attack other countries. buyin F-22As could just be for defense purposes. i mean a test nuke came pretty close to japan, its not wrong to defend your country from a large nuclear strike.

lolz way paranoid.

anyways china's version of stealth fighter will be completed between 2012-2015.

usa will sell imo...lol it's fun watching them do everything revolving around china...yet 47% of americans think china will never take their place in the future.

Weapons and equipment don't necessarily determine whether they will be used for defensive operations or offensive operations. It's all up to the nation's ROE and warfare doctrine.



The Chinese stealth fighter will, evidently, use first- or second-generation stealth technology, whereas the F-22A is currently using fifth-generation stealth technology. That's a huge gap between the two that spans almost 50 years.

Just to clarify,

There is no 5th Gen Stealth Technology, I think you were trying to say 5th Gen fighter.

The F-22A is a 5th Gen fighter that uses 2nd Gen. Stealth Technology (greatly reduced RCS, shaped fuselage, multi spectrum faceted triangular surfaces on the body that absorb and deflect radar waves etc.) as opposed to 1st Gen. Stealth on the F-117A that consisted of paint coatings, reduced RCS and triangular aircraft shape.

Meanwhile, the Russians/Indians are jointly developing the PAK-FA, their 'counter' to the F-22A although specs and performance are far from clear at this stage.

The PLAAF J-XX is really no more than a wind tunnel design at this stage, if a prototype had been designed it would already have been spotted by US or Russian spysats-SAC and CAC designers have had no previous experience designing aircraft of this calibre and have brought in Russian experts from MIG to assist, the Russians of course, will not transfer the best of their stealth technology (plasma stealth?)-assuming that it is 2nd Gen. like that of the F-22A, then they will share 1st Gen. stealth with the PRC design houses and keep the best for themselves (and the Indians who are jointly funding the PAK FA).

I would also expect IOC of the J-XX to be sometime around 2050 as Enomisaki said.

Nope. I did mean 5th-generation stealth technology. The process the stealth technology has progressed makes it much harder to categorize due to the fact that there are no clear lines separating between the tech-levels.

And try to read more carefully. I've stated how the technology between the J-XX and F-22A are almost half a century apart, not how the J-XX will come on-line in 2050.

i say bring back the sr 71 black bird!!!
so what if the sr 71 doesnt have whatever gen of stealth(actually is was the first to have stealth capabilities), using pure speed and altitude...by the time the radars pick your signature, its too late to fire any SAM's...

SR-71 is strictly a high-altitude recon bird. It has no attack capability whatsoever. It's fast, but has no stealth capability and highly inefficient in terms of endurance.

Low-speed, high-altitude UAVs are replacing manned recon aircrafts due to the fact that they have relatively high state of readiness, ease of deployment, long endurance, better capabilities, much smaller visual and RADAR cross section and, most importantly, extremely low risk of the pilot being exposed to the enemy.

You want a bird that's 1950s technology?


And speed and altitude doesn't help much anymore. When SAMs like the SM-3 can hit altitudes of 500,000 feet at Mach 8, there's not much good in performance.

im not saying, bring back the sr71, based on 1950's tech, but bring it back by updating with modern tech while using the sr71's design...

Oh ok. Thanks.

You can only go so far upgrading an old platform with modern systems. Think of it as trying to cram AN/APG-77 and the subsequent avionics to a Cold War-era F-4A--It's just not going to work.

The F-22 relies on supercruise and a cruise altitude of 60,000 feet, which already uses some of the SR-71's ideas - make the plane fly high and fast to make it harder to target.

I don't think it's a big deal we are selling our top of the line stuff. I mean $30 billion dollars, that a lot of money. It could really help take some pressure off of our sluggish economy. It's not like Japan would threaten us with them.

The SR-71 is an icon in aviation. Its the benchmark of high speed long range badass spyplane technology. The next step is mach 7+ hper velosity aircraft. I agree with redfox with a little up dating the SR-71 is still viable as an asset.

No, not that the SR-71 is still viable, but that the SR-71's ideas are still viable (speed and altitude.)

What asset would the sr-71 play? We got sats and uav's to do the recon. The f22 is the fastest fighter out there besides the Mig 25/35, which has a ridiculous short range. The sr71 is an icon but it's days are long over.

Also to the guy who said that the f22 cant fly without computers, planes are built that way now. Its better to have an unstable aircraft for dogfighet, tighter turns.

Sats take time to reposition and their fuel is finite.. They also cost a heap to build, launch and many fail before expected. A fast mover like the SR 71 although in love with maintenance is still a viable option.
The mig 25 is a flying gastank that can't turn.

On another thread I predicted America would never sell the F-22 to anyone, even its closest allies. Maybe I was wrong, and the members who disagreed with me were right.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/IE05Dh01.html

Why is Japan willing to spend all that money???
F-22s for defensive purposes??? hmmmm

Very dangerous for the US to sell the Japanese their key to air superiority...enemies could get their hands on it.

Most certainly, it will be an export version. Which mean, it will be watered down.
This will certainly encourage an arms race in Asia. which is good in my opinion.

An arms race has already started, with China in the lead. So it's not like anything that Japan can do will fan the flames further.

Why would an arms race in Asia be good?

If I interpret BigBen correctly, he believes that an "arms race will be good" because it will give China even more of an "excuse" to build more weapons.

RFA, thanks for the explanation. There are several potential futures for E. Asia and the W. Pacific. Each of these alternate futures involve the rise of China. One possible reality involves peaceful coexistence in a multipolar world, but that would require general disarmament (including America). Another possible reality involves an unrestrained arms race. Historically arms races are a roll of the dice, always leading to war, bankruptcy or the formation of a hostile coalition against the power perceived to be winning the arms race. Look at the former Soviet Union. When the Soviet Union appeared to be ascendant, China and America formed a coalition hostile to it. Ultimately, the Soviet Union went bankrupt. All power is limited, even future Chinese military, economic and political power.

please... ChinaPRC buying weapon platforms to replace its current ones from the 60s = arms race?



China does not need excuses to buy more weapons. It was buying already even before any news of F22 going to Japan was annouced. It has been buying from Russia since the 90s after the Soveit Union collapsed. An arms race naturally encourages innovations in technology and research. Look at the US before WW2 and look at them after WW2.