The first of a new class of destroyers named for King Sejong the Great will be launched late this month. Korea's new ship with its Aegis combat system will be more powerful than Japan's most advanced Aegis vessel.

Aegis vessels are called naval "dream weapons", equipped with powerful radar systems that can detect and help destroy enemy aircraft or missiles hundreds of kilometers away.



"The King Sejong the Great-class destroyer will be launched from Hyundai Heavy Industries' dock late this month," a military source said Monday. "Carrying a sophisticated radar system and a large array of missiles, King Sejong-class destroyers have better attack capabilities than Atago-class vessels, Japan's most up-to-date Aegis vessel which were deployed warfare-ready in March."

King Sejong-class destroyers carry 32 to 38 more missiles than any of Japan's five Aegis ships. They will also carry about 30 Chonryong ("sky dragon") ship-to-surface cruise missiles with a range of more than 500 km and about 10 Hongsango ("red shark") long-range ship-to-submarine missiles with a range of more than 19 km. Both missiles were developed in Korea.

All the features make King Sejong-class destroyers a kind of strategic weapons systems with strategic attack capabilities. Japan's Aegis ships carry no ship-to-surface missiles.

Korea is the fifth country with Aegis ships, following the U.S., Japan, Spain, and Norway. But the King Sejong-class destroyers are reportedly the second most powerful after the American version.

The first of the vessels will be deployed warfare-ready next year after about a year of testing. Two more will be put into service by the Navy in 2010 and 2012.

(englishnews@chosun.com )

Despite both countries being allied to the US, the Korean media always tries to paint Japan as a military, strategic, or economic rival. It's strange really, if it weren't for the alliance with the US, both countries wouldn't hesitate to beat the living daylights out of each other (though Korea more inclined than Japan).

Japan is Korea's main historic rival in just about every field.
Korea has to keep up with Japan or keep her lead to prevent getting fuct over again.
Now Korea wants F22 fighters after Japan announced that they want to replace their old fighter fleet with them.

NE asia is not post-WWII europe. SK is still at a state of war with NK and Japan, an immature democracy with a one-party state for the last half century, still claims korean territory. It's vital that SK keep a strong military in order to avoid misunderstandings. Keep in mind that Japan still has a much bigger defense budget than Korea even with their constitution. in NE asia, good strong fences make good neighbors.

eh, a new submarine too.

S. Korea to launch new submarine, destroyer

SEOUL, May, 15 (Yonhap) -- South Korea is set to unveil its new submarine and destroyer equipped with an air defense combat system in the coming weeks as part of efforts to boost naval capabilities, defense officials said Tuesday.

The country's defense acquisition agency said that a 1,800-ton submarine will be launched early next month. It will be South Korea's second submarine of that kind, following a previous one launched last June.

"The diesel-electric submarine has been developed in partnership with Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG," an official at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said. "The new submarine will be commissioned around November 2008."
The submarine will be named "Jeongji," after a Korean military officer of the Goryeo Dynasty (918-1392), who led a series of victories in battle with the Japanese Navy.

South Korea also owns several rather outdated 209 diesel-electric submarines, also made by the German firm.

The country also plans to launch its first Aegis combat system-enabled destroyer next week.

Aegis is the name of the water-tight air defense system that will be part of the advanced guided missile destroyer, KDX-III, built by Hyundai Heavy Industries.

South Korea will become the fifth nation in the world to own such a ship equipped with the Aegis combat system, according to Navy officials.

"We plan to build two more Aegis combat system-enabled destroyers by 2012 in a bid to keep up with the naval powers of Japan and China," a Navy spokesman said.

explain, how exactly is japan going to fu-k up korea again? i can see why korea might be on guard because of china, but japan? this is ridiculous.

they wont screw us over to the extent of another occupation, but we have island territorial disputes among other maritime issues with them.

korean warships have been dispatched to dokdo several times in the past over possible breach of territory.

lol, the Japanese occupation of 1910 was because of US selling military technology to Japan. Japan has tried so many times to invade and occupy Korea but it failed until the 1900's. Without US foreign aid and technology Japan would just be Japan, a country on an island separate from mainland East Asia. Japan will never suceed in invading Korea again, especially not in the 21st century.

this month. launch

in territorial disputes, if one side is weaker, the other side can enforce its will better. its rivalry in every aspect.

GO ROK navy!!! GO DDG991 Sejong the great!!!!!

You posted this rubbish on another thread too, where I proved you completely wrong.

Basically an arms race between the two would be a lost cause for S. Korea. Japan is a far wealthier country and still has superior technology in most fields and could easily outspend and out-arm Korea. I'm not choosing sides here, I'm just pointing out an obvious fact.

You are right. There is no way in the world Korea is going to have one to one arm race with Japan. But what Korea can do is pack enough punch to defend Korean territory and make Japan or China think twice about invading Korea. When Korea can do that, its military purpose is served. Korea is not out there to invade another country. It just wants to stop from other invading.

I agree, self-defense is most important, and fairly easy to achieve in this day and age. There's simply no way Japan or any other country could invade and occupy Korea anymore (hell, the U.S., the most powerful country on earth, can't even maintain in its invasion of Iraq properly). The navy is a different story though, I think. In terms of defending Dokdo, I think Korea is better off just maintaining the status quo. If S. Korea tries to make its navy too strong, Japan will only make its stronger in turn, and like any arms race this could become dangerous. This is just my opinion, as I like both countries and wouldn't want to see a full scale war develop over something trivial.

There would be no such situation as a one on one arms race for the single reason being Japan buys military weaponry from the states. Japan bought most of its warships and planes from the US and they are in direct alliance with each other. The only reason the Americans are thinking about exporting the f-22 is because in the event China goes crazy they need support in the region. What this means is that US aside, Japan has no military technology, no offensive capability without the US. Why? Because US won the pacific war and submitted Japan forcing them to get rid of most of their army.

You take both China and the US out of the equation and Korea is in the lead. Sorry bud looks like your wrong again.

What the f-k are you talking about? Where do you think Korea get's its technology??? Duh. I'll give you a hint: the Aegis system sure as hell ain't Korean. And Japan could easily make all its own stuff it it wanted (except jets), as Japanese technology is state of the art.

Looks like I was right and you were wrong again. F-cking loser.

1. Japan's population will be cut in half by 2015, and it's economy has been struggling for the past 20 years.

2. Korea's economy will likely pass Japan in 50 years.

3. Both the Chinese and the Russians are more likely to help Korea if War ever come to pass.

4. Korea has time on it's side.

5. Unification with North will make Korea very powerful.

6. Japan has nothing but enemies in Asia. Also, it's a very small island nation with no natural resources and can easily be blockaded.

What??? lol. Japan's population is on a slow decline (as is Korea's btw) but there's absolutely no way it will cut in half in that time... Also, sorry but I think it's safe to say Korea's economy will never surpass Japan's, save for a major disaster where Japan gets destroyed by earthquakes or something.


Not really.


???


Not necessarily. It's actually likely it will drag the South down. Just look at Germany. Reunification is a real head ache.


Japan is a staunch ally of the U.S. (more so than Korea at the end of the day, since Japan and the U.S.'s interests are so intertwined) Also, Korea doesn't have many natural resources either (similar to Japan in that respect).

NIPSSR recently changed its predictions of the Japanese Population. By 2055 Japanese population will have dropped to 90 million. Given North Korea's relatively high pop growth and a solid government policy regarding family size its definitely possible that Korea will surpass Japan in total GDP.

Yes a reunification will drop the per capita gdp, not the total gdp, however in the end it'll be better. Look at Germany its definitely better. Koreans have always been anti-American in most regards, however the KORUS fta agreement is a step forward in US-Korean relations and it can only get stronger as time continues, especially with the much needed regional support with growing China. US is not a staunch ally of Japan, it has an economy of 4 trillion which makes it a good reason to ally but to say the Americans are undisputedly loyal to their Japanese alliance is ridiculous.

You're dreaming. Those predictions are 50 years in the future, and literally anything can happen in that amount of time. Also, S. Korea's population growth is static too. Moreover, sorry to say, but there's no chance in hell for unification, at least not any time soon. It would be nice and all, but it's simply not going to happen, unless there's a major war, which would kill off countless millions and reduce the country to smoldering rubble.

In short, the only way Korea's economy could ever surpase Japan's is if Japan got destroyed by some major disaster, and even then they would likely rebuild and overtake Korea again. It's just common sense. Japan is a bigger country, with way more people and far more wealth all around (second biggest economy on earth, S. Korea isn't even G7).


As I said, unification won't happen. In the first place, Korea is not Germany. East Germany was merely a Soviet satellite, whereas North Korea has its own firmly entrenched, independent government, one which I need not remind you is very totalitarian. They will never give up power unless it is taken from them by force (which isn't likely to happen given the human cost that would result). An internal revolution is possible, but extremely unlikely. At any rate, even if it did happen, like Germany the whole economy would slow down for quite some time. It's like an anchor.

Lastly, the U.S. is absolutely a staunch ally of Japan. I can tell you know nothing about it. Japan and the U.S. literally depend on each other's well being. Japan owns more than a trillion US dollars of American debt (by far the largest in the world). If the Japanese economy were to fall too far, the Japanese would cash in their dollars, thereby flooding the world market and causing the American currency to plummet and wreck the U.S. economy. This is common knowledge, and is one of the main reasons Japan's economy didn't collapse entirely after the bubble (because it was in America's interest to see Japan get back on its feet). The arrangment works both ways because if the Japanese ever let the U.S. economy collapse, they would then have a trillion dollars of worthless money. This is why the two biggest economies on earth are intertwined. Not to mention the U.S. government basically just trusts Japan way more than any other Asian country, since they have almost the same interests. I guarantee you the U.S. would side with Japan over any other Asian country, in the event of a war. There is no question.

the new aegis destroyer will be launched today in korea. woot!

today launched

North Korea responds. The world is so much interesting in these days of war:



By MARI YAMAGUCHI Associated Press Writer
TOKYO May 25, 2007 (AP)

North Korea fired several short-range missiles toward the Sea of Japan on Friday, Japanese media reported. Japanese Defense and Foreign Ministry officials said they could not immediately confirm the reports.

Japan's public broadcaster and other media, citing Japanese and U.S. sources, reported that the missiles were surface-to-ship.

NHK said the short-range missiles were fired on the east and west coast of the Korean Peninsula earlier Friday. Officials were investigating further details, including the number of missiles fired, the report said. NHK said the missiles were shorter-range, and were not North Korea's existing Rodong or Taepodong I ballistic missiles.

Japan's NTV network reported that the missiles were surface-to-ship.

The broadcaster suggested that the North's test was in response to South Korea's launch of its first destroyer equipped with high-tech Aegis radar technology on Friday.

South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff said it was checking the report. The Defense Ministry had no comment.

But Yonhap news agency, citing an unidentified military source, reported that the South had confirmed the launches and was trying to identify the types and the number of missiles fired.

North Korea's missile development has been a constant concern to the region, along with its pursuit of nuclear weapons.

The hard-line regime test-fired a series of missiles in July last year, including its latest long-range model, known abroad as the Taepodong-2, which experts believe could reach parts of the United States.

The North rattled the world again in October by conducting its first-ever test of a nuclear device. However, experts believe it does not have a bomb design advanced enough to be placed on a missile.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3211583

http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab...;ncl=1116573508

You sound delusional. North Korea has nuclear capability with various methods of delivering them. War will be over in one day. Japan is just a playground for nuclear warheads. North will have little remorse in testing it's missile delivery capability on Tokyo. After the war is over, the world will no longer be forced to listen to Japan's excessive whining. The world will return as per usual, minus Japan. Everyone happy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlp5ss_u0IA
kdx-3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km01v52oewo

what a beautiful ship!

No they don't. Really go look up whether N. Korea has the capability to deliver nukes to Japan, you will see you are wrong. Also, we weren't talking about North Korea. North and South are enemies.


LOL. If the Norks ever hit Japan with a nuke, the Korean peninsula would be wiped off the face of the earth in retaliation (and the South at least blanketted in the radioactive fallout). If this retaliation didn't come from the U.S., it would come from the Japanese themselves (who have all the technology and materials already, they could make nukes in no time at all). This is not just empty speculation, this is as close to a guarantee as you can get. Believe it.

go cry somewhere else. North korea has nuclear missiles capable of reaching Alaska & California. However North Korean nuclear missiles is about mutual destruction not a preemptive strike. NK would never strike first, but it was the capability of responding.

Japan is the first one to go, Korea's military is stronger than the Japanese. After the Americans defeated the Japanese in the pacific war they reduced the military capabilities of Japan drastically to the point of only defensive counter-measure. Their offensive ability does not exist, they dont even have missiles capable of reaching North Korea. In the event of NK-Japan war, SK will not be allied with the Japanese, who knows which way the US will stand, they will most likely stand on a 3rd side, but China will intervene in any case and bye bye Japan.

You mean the 'taepodong 2'?!?! That 5th rate piece of sh1t that crashed into the Sea of Japan like 35 seconds after take-off?? bahahahaha!! You're too funny. Nice try skipper. LOL.


Hahaha, keep that dream alive. Japan is a major world power, with a military budget to match. Korea is not. This is not an insult to Korea, it's simply an obvious, indisputable fact, which you are welcome to check. You are just an absurd little man with a completely warped view of the world...


The limits of the pacifist constitution exists on paper, but Japan could change this in a heartbeat (and seems poised to do so in the near future). Moreover, Japan's military expenditure is *DOUBLE* that of North and South Korea's militaries combined. North Korea has crappy missiles than don't work, their nuclear technology sucks and is insufficient to produce even crude warheads that they could mount anyway. Japan on the other hand could easily whip up fully functioning nukes and missiles in a matter of weeks or less if it wanted to. Finally, Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force is very strong, even though it is geared towards defense.


Whaddya mean 'who knows'? It's f-cking obvious, as I have already explained. The U.S. is ready to bomb N. Korea to hell right now on their own accord. The only thing holding the U.S. back is the preoccupation in Iraq and the huge civilian cost that would come from the Norks shelling Seoul. If they ever attacked Japan with a nuke, however, then it'd be bye bye Korea. Forget China, they wouldn't have the nerve to intervene if the North had been stupid enough to use nukes, and they are not even real allies with N. Korea in the first place.

Keep defending North Korea btw, the way it makes you look like a traitor does wonders for your credibility. And keep babbling the rest of your bullsh1t too, it's always funny to read. LOL.

Actually, North Korea is still decades away from acquiring reliable delivery system for their nuclear arsenals, and that's if they can shrink down the size of the warheads and make them lighter so that they can fit inside the rocket. Their latest missile, Taepodong-2, is more or less a modified Scud-B with enhanced range but poor reliability, as shown during the test when it failed to reach its target.



JSDF's personnel are among the highest paid military service members in the entire world. Quite a lot of their military budget goes to paying their soldiers. Koreas, on the other hand, spends not even a tiny fraction of that minus the upkeep. Whenever you see the budget figures of the JSDF, consider at least 25% of that to be going into personnel costs.

Moreover, South Korea already has nuclear delivery systems with their new Hyunmoo III cruise missiles, with each of them being able to carry 500kt warheads, (enough to fry half of Tokyo) not to mention that they can go nuclear just as fast as the Japanese can. North Korea may not be able to use their nuclear weapons due to various reasons, but South Korea and China, (especially China) which are clearly nuclear-capable and nuclear-equipped, respectively, are definitely not going to stand idle and watch their bordering country get irradiated without any political fiasco.

JMSDF is, as you've stated, quite powerful. But the air power of both North and South Korea combined are roughly on par with JASDF until the Japanese get the upper hand by importing the F-22A, which will make them nearly untouchable unless the entire East Asia comes crashing down on them. Most importantly, Japan doesn't have the ability to absorb large ground attacks and/or initiate counter-special operations with their JGSDF from both North and South Korea. If the North Koreans ever manage to land a battalion or two of their special forces in Japan, there's a good chance that they will deal a whole motherload of damage due to the fact that JGSDF isn't really designed to counter asymmetrical warfare. South Korean Marines and Army, on the other hand, will have a hard time trying to land given the fact that JMSDF will be floating around, but if they can get about two regiments to land, there is a good chance that they will hold out until the real heavy-duty stuff comes ashore.

That may be true, but they don't have as many service members in the first place. The majority of that money goes into maintaining the technological edge they enjoy. Both Korea's have huge reserve forces, and well trained too, but Japan's forces are better equipped all around, and they are especially effective for self defense.


I don't see much point discussing nuclear capabilities - the whole argument quickly descends into M.A.D.-ness. N. Korea is only worth mentioning because it is a rogue state known for its unpredictability and outward defiance of major Western powers. S. Korea on the other hand would never have a nuclear war with Japan. As it stands, neither country is nuclear armed, but both could be if they wanted to be (it's not hard). The point is that they are both wealthy, industrialised countries connected to the global market, with way to much to lose, and they play by the rules, unlike North Korea.


This sounds about right to me.


Honestly, I'm no expert and you likely know more about military strategy than I do, but I don't think I need to point out that this is not Rambo. The idea of the Norks sending in a crack squad and tearing sh1t up, sounds about as far fetched as a Hollywood action flick. Basically North Korea is a joke - it's economy is on par with the poorest African nations, constantly on the brink of famine (relying on foreign aid to survive), and all it really has going for it is a huge, mean, totalitarian run army. Its manpower makes it a threat to South Korea, not to mention the artillery aimed at Seoul, but it's no real threat to Japan at all. They could never launch a land invasion, the Japanese fleet would prevent it. And even if they were to land a crack squad it wouldn't amount to anything overall. In short, North Korea is not a real threat to Japan at this time, and it never will be unless it gets real, reliable nuclear and ballistic missile capabilites (which they don't have at present, and by the time they do, Japan will certainly have adapted).

Another problem is that the JSDF, most of the time, overpay for their equipment. Take a look at their Type 90 MBT, for example. USD$6.6m a piece--the most expensive tank in the world barring the K2. Their F-2 is over a USD$100m a pop, the most expensive fighter aircraft barring the F-22A. A gignormous portion of their budget goes into building, operating and maintaining those equipment, all for the sake of being "purely indigenous".



True. No nation-state is ever going to start lobbing nuclear weapons at each other. North Korea, on one hand, might not look as if they will follow those rules, but they know that, in order to survive, they need South Korea, and in order for South Korea to give North aid, then the South needs peace and stability with its neighboring East Asian nations. So, no, I doubt that Kim Jong-Il will ever press the button lest he wouldn't be able to drink cognac and eat huge buffet to feed his belly.



That's why North Korea has huge special forces. Special forces are much cheaper and efficient to operate and maintain, as long as they stay out of direct confrontations. North Korean commandos will fight with whatever resources that they can get; if they run out of rations, they will pillage; if they run out of ammunition, they will just pick up enemy's weapons and continue shooting; if they can't find any weapons, then they will just pick up a rock and bash their enemies to death. And, most of all, they aren't motivated by any religious agendas like the Muslim extremists, who first thought that Allah would protect them against their enemies and later found out that Allah wasn't there for them at all and they had to run away in fear. Not with the North Korean commandos. They know that they will die eventually on the battlefield, which is part of their brainwashing program, and won't hesitate to to rush into the fight and stay there until the end.

As for technological advantage, take a look at Iraq, for example. The U.S. went in there with a show of force only to find out later that Ali is cracking their vehicles open with primitive weapons that would have made WWII German engineers snort at them. Asymmetrical warfare is what makes North Koreans frightening. They've been practicing that for the past half a century against South Korea in small numbers, and the South Korean military, no matter how large or how higher-tech than the North, is still having a major migraine trying to come up with ways to counter it. It's far worse for Japan, with its dense population and huge targets of opportunities packed together like sardines.

All assumptions about war senario with North Korea relies on the belief that they will be reasonable enough to show some kind of restraint. In the worst-case senario, you will have North Korean agents and spec-ops launching terrorist attacks against densely populated centers with nerve and biological agents. The said agents can also be delivered through current line of North Korean ballistic missiles with relative ease. North Korea may not have effective means to striking the United States, but they do possess the means to hit, and hit with fair amount of reliability, targets in Japan. Just how well is Japan prepared against paralyzing attacks to its military and civilian networks? MD capabilities have years to go, and they won't be perfect either.

korea AEGIS ship isnt against n,korea

kdx1 ship is enough to n, korea,s navy

America Won't launch nuclear missles nor will Japan which would take weeks if not months to build/deploy them where JSDF could just use strike the DPRK with Cruise missles instead. The nuclear radiation wouldn't just affect ROK it would still affect Japan and China and would severaly damage the Pacific Rim economy nor would the Bush Administration survive from such a drastic action as most Americans (not-including mentally unstable neo-cons/White Supremcists) and the entire world would be an in uproar.

Well, you may be right theoretically, but again this isn't Rambo. Even if we grant that the NK special forces are well-trained or whatever (which I'm skeptical about, but anyway), they're not action heroes. Nor are the Japanese sheep that are just gonna sit around getting slaughtered; they have large police forces in every major city and are prepared for terrorism (esp. post 9/11). Even landing a single boat in the first place would be hard to do, as Japan has radar and a defense navy. It's just common sense I think. Basically, I find the notion of the above scenario ever happening to be extremely far fetched. I know the Israelis special forces have done sh1t like that before, but these were hit and run, not stick around blowing sh1t up killing everyone in sight (if they wanted to do that they'd just make war). Plus I'm guessing the Israelis are a hell of a lot more badass than anything NK could dish out...


Hold up. The U.S. completely destroyed Iraq in no time at all. Remember 'shock and awe'? That turned Iraq into a crater, and it was all because of superior technology. The mistakes were made during the occupation phase, and guerrilla tactics are only useful for fending off occupying forces. North Korea could never occupy Japan (an island with a powerful navy) and I don't think Japan would be interested in occupying North Korea. Japan could, however, easily make bombs/missiles to send NK even further into the stone age than it already is, wiping out all its infrastructure, killing off most government officials (perhaps including Kim Jong Il himself), leading to a regime to collapse (as was the case with Saddam). The U.S. could also do this, and then some. The result in NK would be anarchy, but that alone would be enough to constitute a 'victory' for Japan if war ever took place.

As everyone knows, the only real reason why NK is still around is because they have artillery in shelling range of Seoul, which could destroy the whole city in minutes.

I agree. However, if the NK attacked with nuclear weapons first, then all bets are off. Especially if Tokyo (the biggest metropolitan centre on earth with a GDP bigger than all of China) were destroyed - there would be hell to pay. Anyway, it will never happen, so discussing it is like coming up with a plot for a science-fiction novel...

이지스구축함 세종대왕함(KDX-Ⅲ)
South Korea will launch its first Aegis destroyer at a dockyard in the southeastern port city of Ulsan on Friday, becoming the fifth country in the world to have the warship, the Navy said, accoroding to Yonhap News Agency.
The KDX-III destroyer, which is 166 meters long and has a displacement of 7,600 tons, was built at the Ulsan dockyard of Hyundai Heavy Industries Co. at a cost of 1 trillion won (US$1 billion), accoording to the report.

Named King Sejong after the Joseon Dynasty monarch who helped create the Korean alphabet in the 15th century, the warship is the most powerful in the Navy.

The new destoyer is armed with 16 ship-to-ship "Haesung" (sea star) missiles, 128 ship-to-air missiles and 32 ship-to-surface cruise missiles that could give the ship strategic capabilities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIRnKFM6Tac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2zEbhDZ_os

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Tizx449LM


The Aegis combat system is an integrated missile guidance system used by the United States Navy. It is both an integrated single ship system and a ship-to-ship network. It is also used by the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, Spanish Navy, Norwegian Navy, and South Korean Navy. The Royal Australian Navy has selected the Aegis system for their new destroyers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_combat_system



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I really don't know how good these destroyers are by the Chinese, but a lot of American stolen technology.


Chinese Type:

The Type 052C destroyer (NATO code name Luyang II class, often referred to as Lanzhou class after the lead ship name) is a class of destroyer built by the People's Republic of China. Two Type 052C (Lanzhou class) air defence missile destroyers have been built by Jiangnan Shipyard of Shanghai for the PLA Navy. The destroyers, based on the same hull of the Type 052B (Guangzhou class) destroyer, feature an APAR-style active phased array radar system and vertically launched HQ-9 naval version long-range air defence missile system. This class represents China's first true fleet air defence capability. The first-of-class No.170 Lanzhou was commissioned in 2004, followed by the second hull No.171 Haikou in 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_052C_destroyer

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/type052cluyangii.asp

I never mentioned that there was any Rambo crap. No idiot in this world will start playing hero by grabbing a belt-fed M-60 in each hands and start pouring lead out in plain view, unless you are talking about some place like Somalia. However, North Korean commandos know that, if they ever do land in Japan to fight, there will be no way for them to return to their homeland unless they plan on getting executed for defying orders along with their families. Such is the harsh reality, and they will fight viciously.

Being "prepared for terrorism" is good, but not so much when the other side has the initiative. North Korean commados can destroy several key targets and some targets of opportunity before the Japanese police can realize what's going on and respond properly. North Koreans aren't going to try to make a landing by a surface boat, and they aren't stupid to attempt that. They will, most likely, use midget submarines in order to make an attempt for landing. They do that quite often to South Korea, and South Korea still can't figure out how to stop them.



Shock & Awe is the U.S. version of the World War II German Blitzkreig, which combines ground, naval and air forces into a single massive, rapid-maneuvering joint strike force to blow through enemy defenses and exploit whatever weaknesses the enemy will have, especially in their logistics line. If the friendly forces can cut off the logistics for the entrenched enemy, then the enemy defense will begin to crumble, resulting in easier fight overall. This works fantastically against a conventional military with few logistics options, which Iraq was in both the Desert Storm and the Iraqi Freedom, because Iraq had a massive amount of big guns and tubes but not enough logistics unit to keep those tracks rolling for long time. But this does not apply the same to fighting an asymmetrical warfare, in which technological advantages is massively toned down.

Everyone knows that the North Koreans are never going to occupy Japan. They don't have the ability to do so, and they know that. North Korean military isn't even designed for attacking Japan to begin with. They do know, however, that they can wreck massive havoc by sending in special forces to strike key targets, such as bombing docks and ports, plants and so on. If the commandos can achieve this, then their purpose is fully served, because the primary purpose of commandos is to do as much damage as possible from the behind the enemy lines and not to go head on or hold ground.

Same thing with Japan trying to occupy North Korea. The JGSDF doesn't have the ability to hold ground for long periods of time. They lack the assets to properly do so.



If North Korea ever plans on making a breakthrough, then there is a high chance that they won't be using all those guns to level down cities. They need the barrages to punch a hole through the massive entrenchment of South Korean and the U.S. military stationed along the DMZ. And even if North Koreans do get a few volleys off, the chances are that they will fall silent within a matter of minutes from the South Korean and American counter-battery fire. North Koreans depend on towed tubes, and it's not going to be possible for them to fire off and relocate them to safe position before the counter-battery fire takes them out. They know this, and they aren't stupid. They won't be trying to waste time on bombing cities and will rather use their guns on the entrenchments as much as possible throughout their short lifespan before the ROKA/USFK counter-battery fire gets them.

Well, they might do it once. In the big picture it wouldn't amount to anything, except pissing the Japanese off to the point of declaring war. You say 'key targets', but like what? These guys would be going on foot, what's the worst they could do? I'm not trying to be a smart @$$ either, I'm genuinely curious.


I think we have roughly the same opinions, but are just on a slightly different page. I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you really think they could do major damage to ports etc?? They might pull it off once or twice in surprise attacks, but the Japanese aren't stupid either. They could declare war and impose a naval blockade, and do all sorts of things. My only point is I don't think the NK special forces' efforts would amount to anything big picture. it would be more of a nuisance than anything I think, and wouldn't win any wars.


I agree, except that I think the Norks could level Seoul in a matter of minutes, and still reposition their guns. As I understood it, it would take less than 15 minutes or so for them to barrage Seoul, and that's all she wrote. It's a perfect deterent, though it's debatable whether they would go through with it. I personally don't doubt they would if their existence was threatened, but that's just my opinion.

It doesn't even have to be a full-scale war for the North Koreans. Both sides know that they can't invade one another, so the most they will be able to do is to lob bombs at each other.

The key point is that Japan will be much more susceptible to a conflict. Attacking several targets such as docks, ports, shipyards, airports, factories and so on will probably be somewhat destabilizing for the Japanese in terms of domestic security and economy. Hell, they don't even need to bomb the places. The North Korean commandos just need to let the Japanese know that they are in the neighborhood, and there's a pretty good chance that everything will go to hell just because of that. On the other hand, North Korea doesn't even have much of an economy to begin with, so bombs going off in several places in North Korea isn't necessarily going to hurt them a lot.



It's technically impossible for Japan to impose a blockade on North Korea unless the Japanese are willing to have a showdown with South Korean and Chinese navy given the fact that North Koreans can simply use Yellow Sea, Korea Straight and East China Sea to sneak their forces out. If Japan wants to impose an effective blockade so that nothing can come out of North Korea by water, then it means that they will have to align their maritime forces along those three areas as well, which will mean that they are imposing a military blockade in both Chinese and South Korean territorial waters and is going to be hard, if not impossible, for the Japanese to do given their limited assets and possible political and military confrontations from both China and South Korea.



Counter-artillery RADAR is a beautiful thing to have, not to mention that most of the North Korean stationary tube positions are already marked on the maps and can be easily spotted even if they try to move them since they take too long to disassemble and redeploy. The North Korean guns will fall silent from the counter-battery fire after they give a few volley of fire, which is nowhere close to being enough to level Seoul and/or Pohang. But, again, they need every guns that they have in order to achieve a breakthrough in case the cease-fire agreement burns up in flames, because nothing conventional that the North Koreans have will allow them to manage a breakthrough against the heavy ROK/US entrenchments and garrisons unless the North Koreans pound the hell out of them first, and even that's pushing their luck given their limited abilities and short lifespan of their guns.

It takes 170mm guns about 30 minutes to pull out, load, fire, and roll back. (This was tested by ROK engineers after they smuggled a piece out of a 3rd world country)

Or about same as older self-propelled artileries. It takes less than a minute for a counter-battery radar to locate and plot location of the gun. It takes a South Korean K9 artillery 30 second to plot and shoot, 1 minute if it had been under movement. In burst fire mode, K9 can lob 3 155mm shells in under 15 seconds. The beautiful thing is, K9, MLRS, counter-battery radars (and older K-55 guns in the future) are networked into a digitalized data-link system that allows near instant transfer of data and target information. This allows nearly all of South Korean artillery units to respond to a threat in under 5 minutes.

So yes, North Korean artilleries are a threat, especially since there are so many of them. But it is unreasonable to think that they would get all the time in the world to reload and shoot their rounds to their content when South Korean artilleries can hit them minutes after their first shot, or perhaps not even that.

er, the chinese type 052C radar system is self developed by china. just because it uses a VLS system and an APAR style does not even imply china stole the Aegis tech.....052c uses cold launch, the u.s. uses hot launch. i don't even think stealing aegis tech is even helpful if you don't have the basic military parts and know how and production.

Please, a lot of Aegis systems were stolen by the Chinese. There's a reason why Chinese destroyers look just like US.

More pics of Sejong:

http://www.jeffhead.com/aegisvesselsoftheworld/sejong.htm

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99035

Also video of "Goalkeeper":

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=103097