http://abcasiapacific.com/news/stories/asi...ies_1153298.htm

More detail on the law would be good.

Hmmmmm.

I'm not interested in comparing here. I wanna know to what extent is freedom of religion allowed and what are the rights entailed in the new law.

wow...

I'm glad they're allowing more freedoms in Vietnam.

I heard they finally allowed people to wear jeans a while back...

Anyway, are all restaurants still required to have the same menus? Or did they finally allow restaurants to have different menus?

More details on the new law would be nice though

I hope Vietnam gives up communism entirely, then maybe we won't be viewed as an "evil commie" country by the world anymore.

hmm...
this is an interesting new develpment

I couldn't give a rat's a$$ what the world thinks about Vietnam. I only believe Vietnam should do whatever she should for her best interest. At the moment, political stability, social harmony and economic growth are the top priorities so I'll stick with Communism for now (or should I say Socialism?).

It's just some delusional and neo-cons who thinks like that. Everybody knows that Vietnam is capitalist at heart.

But again, I would not place other countries' view of Vietnam about Vietnam's own interests.

A good image abroad helps Vietnam. Good relations, means more help and more aid, and more trade. There's nothing wrong with friendship.

Geez you just don't know the priorities do you?

I never said a Regime change. I said just throw away the commie image.

The people in power can still be the same, but instead we just call ourselves republic instead of socialist.

I mean if we aren't even going to follow communism and allow freedom of religion and a capitalist economy than why call ourselves communist?

We should just call ourselves Republic since our country is starting to act like that more, and calling ourselves Republic will give a better image.

Why stick with the communism on paper?

wow..well i always thought that there was religous freedom in vietnam..i guess im stupid and i duno anythign about my own country

Besides the "papers" and "news", is it really true that Vietnamese is and will enjoy Religious freedom. Most of us here except are some living in Vietnam now don't know $hits about situations in Vietnam.

‘a frog in a well cannot speak of the sea’

I like the improvement, but freedom of religion is the least I care about (just me). Only people being persecuted for freedom of religion are the priests and some monks. What I really want is for freedom of speech, but I guess if this was granted, then the whole regime will collapse, because there are plenty of people in Vietnam that want to voice their opinion. Freedom of the press would be good too.

I seriously think the change need to be made now. The old-farts proved that they can't lead, and if there's a regime change now it will bring in a lot of reforms and innovation with the younger generation. And as I said many times, not a lot need to be change. The political structure is there, it's a republic, we just need a transparent system and a government that would lead us toward the right direction, and the people should be able to choose who to lead them, not just the old VCs voting among themselves.

Moved to serious chat.

To what degree were they enforcing the secular laws? My relatives in Vietnam seemed to be able to practice their religion without much, if any, interference from the government.

"The ruling Communist Party's Nhan Dan newspaper says the decree "will serve as a legal basis to ensure the people's basic right to beliefs and religious freedom and reinforce the state's management in the area".

I think what is seriously being overlooked here is the LAST part of this report - "...reinforce the state's management in the area." This equals religious 'freedom' on paper only. No true religious freedom can exist with ANY state (especially a Communist one) managing it. This last phrase is the equivalent of asserting the State's supremacy over one's loyalty and devotion to God (or buddha if they so choose). This is an impossible environment for religious freedom. The State still wants to be 'god' and will allow no competition.

Besides, this same situation happened only a few years ago: "In February 2001, the government of Vietnam lured Christian leaders into making an agreement which was supposed to offer more religious freedom. As the church held it breath, their hopes were dashed as the authorities broke their promise and intensified their persecution against the church." http://www.persecution.org/concern/2002/02/p3.html


As for only a few monks and priests being vicitimized by religous oppression in Vietnam, have you not heard of the recent military attacks by the Communist government on ca'c ngu+o+`i Thu+o+.ng o+? Ta^y Nguye^n? (Hey, how do I get Vietnamese fonts to work with this site?)

rage

LOL...I love this guy.

More BS coming from Viet Cong about freedom.

as a practicing Buddhist, i dont see any problem with the situation in vietnam regarding religious activity because buddhists are supposed to stay away from all political activities. that works out quite well

But they can't stay away from what is wrong and killing people. That would be coward and impractical when buddhists teach about doing what is right. No less difference than Christianity or others.

Political activities affect your freedom and any religion cannot just stand back and let them oppress you and everyone else.

Buddhists were opppressed during the Diem regime no doubt and Buddhists and others including small numbers of Catholics protested and brought him down.

Today the Communists learned something from Diem's time but that doesn't mean religion is freely practiced in Vietnam. Before, all religion organizations were independently operated but now all are under the government control.

Before we have the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam but now its outlawed and the government have their own churh '"Phat Giao Quoc Gia" (something like that). Same goes with other religions.

Many leaders of the Unified Buddhist Church are either in prison or under house arrest.
Well-known leader is Thich Quang Do. He's not afraid to criticize the government and demand the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam be free to operate.
http://www.queme.net/eng/index.php


CSVN will use propaganda to cover up their oppression of religion.

from Thich Quang Do:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is an honour and a great pleasure to be able to address you today and join my voice with yours to discuss the building of a world based on freedom and human rights.

?Human rights? means the right of every human being to live as free and respected members of society. But in Vietnam today we are not free. We are prisoners in our own country, in our pagodas, in our homes. Prisoners of a regime which decides who has the right to speak and who must keep silent. Who has the right to freedom, and who must be detained. We are prisoners of a regime, which, 30 years after the end of the Vietnam War, continues to fight a battle against its own people and deprive them of their basic human rights.

For the past 30 years, the communist authorities have sought to stifle all independent voices in Vietnam. Today, we have no opposition parties, no free press, no free trade unions, no civil society. All independent religions are banned. All citizens who call for political reform, democracy or human rights risk immediate arrest.

Because we refuse to accept this, the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam has been systematically repressed. Our Church is outlawed, our leaders arrested, our followers harassed. For more than twenty-five years, the Patriarch Thich Huyen Quang and I have been imprisoned or exiled, simply for demanding the people?s basic human rights. As I speak to you today, I am under house arrest at the Thanh Minh Zen Monastery in Saigon. Secret Police keep watch on me day and night. My telephone is cut, my communications are monitored, and I am forbidden to travel. This message was recorded in secret, and Buddhists followers took great risks to send it to the International Buddhist Information Bureau and the Vietnam Human Rights Committee in Paris, who helped bring it to your gathering today.

The communist government claims that we do not need freedom, that by opening Vietnam?s markets they can fulfill the people?s needs. But their policy of ?doi moi? ? economic opening under authoritarian control, has failed disastrously, and led to serious human rights abuses. State corruption, power abuse, social injustice, exploitation and forced labour are widespread. The poverty gap is rocketing, and social problems such as juvenile crime, drug addiction, AIDS, child prostitution and trafficking in women are rife. In a society with no rule of law, no independent judiciary, the people have no recourse against these evils, and live in permanent insecurity, hardship and fear.

What can we do to bring stability, well-being and development to the people of Vietnam ? During my long years in detention, I have thought deeply, and I have come to the conclusion that there is only one way ? we must have true freedom and democracy in Vietnam. This is the only possible solution. We must have pluralism, the right to hold free elections, to chose our own political system, to enjoy democratic freedoms ? in brief, the right to shape our own future, and the destiny of our nation. Without democracy and pluralism, we cannot combat poverty and injustice, nor bring true development and progress to our people. Without democracy and pluralism, we cannot guarantee human rights, for human rights cannot be protected without the safeguards of democratic institutions and the rule of law.

Democracy and pluralism are also vital for the survival of religious movements and for the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam, for we shall never be free from religious repression until a democratic process is under way. The UBCV has vast human resources, and we can do so much for our people?s development if only we are free.

The Communist leaders are afraid of democracy because they fear it will make them lose power. But what is more important ? keeping power or building a free and prosperous Vietnam ? The communist regime justifies its presence in the name of nationalism, independence or economic progress. But in reality, maintaining power is their true concern. Maintaining the power and privileges of a ruling minority of 2 million Party members over the majority of 80 million people. That is the tragedy of Vietnam ? in the aim of keeping power at all costs, Hanoi?s regime is destroying our nation and our cultural identity.

This is why we Buddhists, and Vietnamese people from all walks of life are calling out urgently for freedom, democracy and human rights. The authorities try to stifle our voice by repression, imprisonment and violence. But they cannot stifle the people?s will, for the people?s will is the will of God. They cannot stifle it forever. We shall continue our peaceful struggle. We will not stop until we realize our aspirations for democracy in Vietnam.

I am sending you this message to ask your help to bring our voices to the world. Each day, Vietnamese democrats face dangers to keep the spirit of freedom alive. We are not afraid, but we know that we cannot win this battle alone. We need the support of the international community, of democrats around the globe.

Our demands are beautifully simple: We call for the right to existence of the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam and all other non-recognized religions so that we can contribute to the welfare of our people. We ask for the right to run an independent newspaper in Vietnam, as a forum for democratic debate. We call for the release of all those who are detained because of their political opinions or religious beliefs.

These aims can be achieved, I am sure of it. This year marks the 30th Anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War, but also the 30 years of the UBCV movement for religious freedom, human rights and democracy in Vietnam . I hope that, with your help and support, it will also mark the first year of a democratic process that will bring lasting peace and freedom to the people of Vietnam.

Venerable Thich Quang Do

etail.php?numb=426

As a Buddhist, I believe that human rights violations are not compatible with my religion. Politics has a bad name and worse reputation, but politics is the process and mechanism through which we air our differences and try to work them out. If people are are not allowed to air their differences and work them out, it is only a matter of time before they start shooting - As a Buddhist, this is definitely an outcome that I don't want.

There is a Muslim sect whose addherents go from US town to US town, preaching any involvement by Muslim Americans into politics. I think this Muslim sect is screwed up, and that we don't need to duplicate their mistake. In general, if you don't engage those you disagree with, it is only a matter of time before they demonize you and put you in a situation where they either kill you or vice-versa. Again, not a desirable outcome from a Buddhist point of view.

There is a bigger picture here - by oppressing and controlling "religion", the Communist government controls MORALITY. Christian scriptures (for example) clearly identify what specific activities, attitudes and beliefs are RIGHT and which are WRONG and explains moral vs. immoral action. The immoral and wrong are condemned by GOD not matter what any human authority might say (and a Christian's allegiance is never to a human authority, but to GOD alone). By oppressing and controlling "religion", ideas of RIGHT and WRONG are simply decided by the rule of law (which is relative) instead of some overriding spiritual absolute. Whatever the law makes legal is GOOD; whatever that law makes illegal is BAD. In this way, the Communist government is attempting to take GOD's place as the moral authority for the people. In serving such and impotent 'god' as the Law and the Government, no wonder people turn to corruption, drugs, prostitution, crime, etc.

rage

Communists are afraid of organized religion. That's why they control all the main churches in Vietnam and they are above all religions. So true, moral decline is so evidenced in Vietnam. "State corruption, power abuse, social injustice, exploitation and forced labour are widespread." What are they teaching to the younger generation with their corrupted mind?

"The communist regime justifies its presence in the name of nationalism, independence or economic progress. But in reality, maintaining power is their true concern."

One example of how the CSVN control religion in Vietnam:
Each year we have flood in the Central region and many religious workers organized to bring foods and clothes to the flood victims. The government don't like it and detained all of them. They say the religious workers have no permission and that should be the work of the government! There goes your "freedom of religion" in Vietnam.

So now I can practice my religion which says I need to sacrifice a sheep to appease Allah every month?! Yes!!! YES!!!!!!!!!

Since when Vietnam ever ban religion?

Has anybody ever stop you from praying?

I'm a Catholic and I can follow the teaching of Christ any time I want and no one ever bother me about it.

Freedom of Religion is not just about praying. Many religions involed the teachings of doing social charity works like helping the poor, natural disaster victims, problem teens, the homeless, drug users etc.. We see alots of these in Vietnam today and many Churches are not allowed to do these unless permission by the government. Religious leaders want to speak the truth. Want to say what's is wrong with today society. Want social change. do you think CSVN allow that kind of freedom? Beside that if you're not one of those "quoc gia" religious leaders, you are not allow to travel freely and to preach your teachings freely.

Many of these leaders also demand CSVN give back their churches and temples used by VC as their new government offices. Do you see the injustice and abuse of human rights there?

I also heard of government officials fighting over the ownership of the many built churches and temples. Many things happening behind the curtain that many of us don't see.

Vietnam never ban people from practicing their religious believe... But the Gov't is mindful about potential conflicts between different religions... And also the Gov't is mindful about religious leaders who wish to undermind the social harmony and have political agendas.

Let me give an example...

A religious group go to foreign countries and persuade those countries to keep the Sanction or stop normalizing relation with VN just to keep VN poor and starving... Then go back to VN and try to feed ppl... So the ppl can convert to that religious group...

I don't know about other ppl, but for me, that's the most loathsome act ever.