Lawmakers group to seek removal of China's anti-Japan photos

Saturday, June 9, 2007 at 06:55 EDT

TOKYO — Veteran conservative lawmaker Takeo Hiranuma and other Diet members will launch a parliamentary league on Wednesday to urge China to remove photos from its war museums that show the Japanese military's wartime atrocities, involved lawmakers said Friday.

The launch of the league was initially planned for January but was delayed because Hiranuma, an independent member of the House of Representatives, who is expected to head the group, suffered a stroke in December and was hospitalized.

The group plans to urge China through diplomatic channels to remove what it calls "unjustifiable" photos which are believed to be displayed in about 150 Chinese war museums and aim to convey China's victory in its resistance to Japanese military aggression. The lawmakers said the museums have apparently been established in response to the Chinese Communist Party's efforts to boost patriotism among the younger generations.

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/408948

Lol a foolish request. What makes them think were going to remove those pictures any sooner then they would there shrine?

All the more reason to keep the shrine.

Im not surprised by your response but it amuses me that you cant differentiate between china displaying photos of atrocities that the japanese committed in an effort to educate and to remind people of what happened in the past so as to make sure it doesnt happen again in the future, compared to the shrine which actually houses war criminals who committed these very atrocities. If your trying to turn this into some kind of a battle of resolves between the two then let me tell you you are failing miserably and clearly unable to distinguish between the two. Why dont we just go one better and erect a shrine or a memorial of the atomic bombings too?

'China must visit Yasukuni', Aso says

Associated Press - June 24, 2007 8:23 PM ET

TOKYO, Japan (AP) - Foreign Minister Taro Aso today urged China to visit the Yasukuni Shrine. The move comes amid improving bilateral ties between Japan and China, mostly due to China’s increasing economic ties to Japan and increasing diplomatic exchanges between Chinese President Hu Jintao and Japanese Prime Minster Shinzo Abe. Aso said China must visit the controversial shrine to reach an understanding of the Japanese spirit before further improvements in Sino-Japanese ties could bear fruit.

“To truly perceive the peaceful Japanese heart, China’s top leaders will need to visit Yasukuni, worship the souls of those who died in the Emperor Showa’s name, and achieve a true understanding of history,” Aso said from his office, adorned with photographs of the Japanese military dating from the Second World War.

“China-Japan relations face an important opportunity to develop and [China] must firmly grasp this opportunity.”

The minister went on to explain that Japan’s occupation of China achieved many positive results for that country: “Along with removing China of Western influences, we also brought them education, a concept unheard of before 1930 in China, infrastructure such as railways and a postal system, as well as effective population control at places like Nanking. The peace that China enjoyed at that time was due entirely to the kindly actions of our Imperial Army. For China’s leaders to stubbornly refuse to worship these sons of the Emperor is an unforgivable insult.”

Sino-Japanese relations had been icy for much of the past half-decade, largely because of former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi’s annual visits to the Yasukuni Shrine for war dead. Beijing sees the shrine as a symbol of Japan’s past militarism as some convicted war criminals are honored there.

Salt in the wounds. That American infested island will pay one day.

Here is the source link - http://chineseinvancouver.blogspot.com/200...an-fm-says.html

Not that I doubt the legitimacy of the article but who's the author and where is this from the Associated Press? When I type it into google, I'm lead to a bunch of bull$hit blogs.

THANK YOU CHINA for the war museums. *applause* seriously. all of Asia shopuld NEVER forget.

if the jews can empower their community w/ the holocaust museums, i think so should all asian countries that have been TORTURED by japan. it happened & it was the most effed up thing EVER.

^You mean all the countries that were tortured and abused by China. Why does Chinese like to act like they are innocent? I never get you guys.

Well, it's not bull$hits, it did happen, Takeo Hiranuma and Taro Aso did say those things


BUT Takeo Hiranuma and Taro Aso are known nationalist nutcases who constantly spill craps out of their mouths. So China does not really even care about those two wackos say or do.

That's because you are Vietnamese.... just like you'd also never get why Khmers or Thais hate you guys. You guys have you own history to sort out with other people who hate your guts.

The difference between Chinese and Vietnamese is that Chinese rarely join into the discussions when Khmers and Thais are hating on Vietnamese, which happen quite a lot. On the other hand, Vietnamese just love to join in and take advantage of the situation between Chinese and Japanese.

i suggest u look at the atrocities they commited in papua new guinea. there are still effin cannons & bombs and all sorts of relics in the islands. they were clearly the nazis of asia.

edit: AND the south pacific.

Hope your country get nuked and japanese whores go to korea and china 50/50 for sex.

that stroke was just at the right moment

Weren't the photos debunked by Japanese as fakes with proof?

I am sorry but I can not find this quote anywhere. I did a search and I cannot find the article either. And your link is a dead link to a Chinese blogger site. Can you please find a working link?



Yes, I am not assuming anything but I just can't find this article or quote anywhere.


Well this link is gone too, should I assume this is a very old topic???

This is the Japanese version of the holocaust. Atrocities were committed by all sides but the winners got to use propaganda to make the losers look worse. If Japan and Germany had won it is the rest of the world who would have to apologize for THEIR war crimes and pay reparations.

The Allies didnt experiement on humans nor did they try to commit genocide (Jews, Gypsies) ...

I don't care anymore. Japan can do w/e they want. These domestic matters are insignificant now. People don't always have to hold hands. At least japanese people don't stuff their mouths with live animals like koreans.

Whoa, whoa, what's this chinaman's problem:?

Stupid what makes them think that we should remove? its history isnt it? if its fake then yea chinese will remove it because we wont offend anyone but since its the truth and its history you have to face it someday so i dont care.

Acalorin pleaase dont poste any pictures like that it has nothing to do with this poste. you need to know that their might be little kids reading this poste. Damned it, its people like you thats why this world is so full of retards and imoralness.

I can see that im going to be the enemy here but oh well, China needs to take a look in the mirror.

when you give back Tibet to the Tibetan people then you can talk high and mighty, IT WAS WAR. not condoning it but the Japanese are warriors and hav done nothing but war throughout its history as a country up until the occupation.

how do you expect to move forward if you insist in living in the past.

Tibets independence depends on your view on it, there are arguable reasons for Tibet has always been part of China or not. Also even if China stops talking about it, you will always have those that suffered that will feel that the government isn't helping them. So basically China isn't doing it just to keep bothering Japan but because there are citizens that feel that they never got a proper apology. China would probably still be demanding an apology even if the CCP isn't in power. Also I absolutely can't stand people like you who say, "Oh, those people need to stop living in the past and move on". You have absolutely no right to say that to the people who suffered through it and feel that they never received proper compensation. In fact, why don't you tell Japan to apologize, so we can move forward like you said?

Japan has made multiple apologies and its never good enough,

here are 3 seperate occasions.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-04...pan-china_x.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WDQ/is_/ai_79440352

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-131825245.html

and im not talking to the people who went through it, im talking about the people on this site that instigate things they have nothing to do with.

i guess i should hate all Americans for dropping 2 atomic bombs on us, of course I wasnt there or even alive at that time but I REALLY need something to be upset about.

The people want proper recognition too. So why don't Japan just recognize it in history books like Germany and let people who suffered from China, Korea and wherever else get what they want before they pass away? Also those who did suffer from the nukes can absolutely be angry so I'm wondering if you read my post or not.

why keep it going? its obviously in history books so why advertise it to insite more hostility and hate? I obviously read your post, but it seems youre more interested in keeping negativity and tension between 2 nations rather then move forward. but you see, China is the one who is still insisting on apologies and recognition etc...
Japan could care less, they made there apology and it wasnt accepted, so be it.
these are the types of things that keep China from progressing. as i said before, maybe they should be making some apologies of there own.

First of all, I don't try to incite negativity so stop antagonizing me. Also, if you don't think Japan doesn't care about this than you're mistaken, not according to Japan's yearly different Prime Ministers. The other things in your post I've already addressed before and it seems that you're taking this nowhere so I'm going to stop responding to you. Especially since you have the Japanese imperial flag in your avatar haha.

youre right its going nowhere, I was done at the last post lol.

agree to disagree.

Keep in mind, people that the average Japanese subject had little to no say in the political process or administration of the government pre-WWII. The government and military was still an aristocracy of samurai families of the old Shogunate. There was hardly any democratic institutions in place for the Japanese people to partake. The Japanese that were responsible for the horrendous atrocities were the ones in power and the soldiers that carried out their officers' directives. While the mainstream populace may have had xenophobic views toward other Asians and were proudly patriotic (who doesn't support the country they owe their allegiance to?), I think that today's Japanese don't feel that they should apologize for government policies and military action that obeyed as subjects. If the Japanese people had voted for those officials, then I could see justification that they were responsible for Japan's wartime aggressions. To their point of view, if their ancestors were just peasants, townspeople, craftsmen, etc. that were not in charge of the government but dutifully followed their government, why should they apologize for it. I'm not saying that this is a correct viewpoint. But I believe that this is what is commonly prevalent amongst mainstream Japanese. Ignore the revisionist right-wingers who print propaganda about that "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" garbage.
And one more point I would like to add. If you feel that the Japanese people should have risen up and launched an open rebellion against their authorities so that Japan wouldn't go on an atrocious imperialistic path, I remind you to consider the sort of world setting that existed at that time. While Japan conquered Taiwan in 1895 and Korea in 1910, the banzai-shrieking POW-murdering civilian-butchering Japanese militarism didn't really take-off until the 1930's. By then, the militarists were in complete control of the nation and were eying China and other regions for economic advancement. If conscious Japanese revolted, the authorities could have denounced it as a Bolshevik-style revolution (something which ALL of the major powers were afraid of). The British and the Americans, while not in favor of the oligarchic militaristic government would have preferred the familiar Japanese saber-rattler to a so-called "Bolshevik" and would not object to the very likely brutal crackdown that would have ensued.

Yes they did indeed but it was all apology in just words.
If someone murdered your family members and says "sorry" after decades without much sign of respect then it's too late.

Japan doesn't need more apology, they need to act by dismantling Yasukuni Shrine and removing imperial family from Japan, and turn Japan into democratic Republic.

US dropped A-bombs on Japan because Japan shown no sign of giving up and attacked American bases in pacific, if you play with fire you'll get burn.

thats never gonna happen, then as a buddhist i demand a formal apology, and im not gonna stop there, i want Hu jin Tao to step down and crush all statues of Mao and convert from communism to democracy.

then ill be happy.

and i was making a point about the US dropping bombs, i dont care why they did it, my point was i could hold a grudge against america, even though i wasnt there or even born, or my parents werent even born etc... and hold a grudge until they apologize blah blah blah, or i could move on.

I choose to move on.

In just words?

War reparations.
http://www.jiyuu-shikan.org/e/reparations.html

Asian Woman Fund for Comfort Women
http://www.japanfocus.org/products/topdf/2653


U.S dropped the A-Bombs on Japan because they were racist $hit, who decided to make an example of Japanese civilians with it's new weapons of mass destruction. Ever since Perry came to Japan in the 19th Century, they fu-ked with them starting with signing of the Unequals Treaty. The Yasukuni shrine isn't just a World War II memorial. It was built in 1869 for Christ's sake. It's a memorial dedicated to the men who risked their lives from the Meiji restoration onward to legitimize Japan. It would be a disgrace and injustice and wrong to dismantle such a place. However, removing the names of the War Criminals would be okay and the smart thing to do.

Bit too late for that don't you think?
Japan is just following the Geneva convention code, nothing more than that.

So getting A-bombed was Japan's suffering?, what about millions suffered during Japan's ruthless invasions & force labor camps, human experiment camps, inhuman treatment of POWs, force prostitution of under age girls, forcing people to adopt Japanese way of life & names, killing millions of innocent civilians etc..

And what about distortion of school books on Japan's war atrocities while country like Germany choose to be open & accepting their past, Japan is still trying to hide it under their palm of their hands.

Japan does not deserve to have shrine like Yasukuni because it still does not learn from her past.
The war memorial shrine should be there for remembering these who gave their lives for greater things like protecting lands, civilians, peace, etc.. Did Japan was protecting lands, civilians, peace and achieved greatness for people of the world? It's more like Japan exploited lands, people and resource to feed their greed for glorifying their imperial Japan. And what do you get in return more suffering of Japanese civilians.

This is why I mentioned Japanese public should remove their imperial family and their royal shrine, if average Japanese public doesn't know this then your people will get cold treatment from your neighboring countries and continuously get blamed.

You want Japan to apologize from the bottom of their hearts? You're putting highly unrealistic demands on the Government. Nobody in this World could possibly pull something like your suggesting off, it'll never be enough. Also, the only reason Germany apologized the way they did was for the protection of the Allied Nations after the War from Stalin's Russia. Will you condemn them now as well for not really meaning it?

On the A-Bombs, I was merely replying to what you said not explaining that the Japanese suffered too.

I agree that the Japanese should not distort it's textbooks, it's stupid, bad politics and ridiculous to jeopardize foreign relations over telling the truth.

I don't know what you mean by lesson from it's past, the only thing I see wrong with it is the addition of men who were convicted of war crimes by a tribunal. Once again you have a highly idealized notion of what other Nations should celebrate and it's good to know that you personally hold such good values but I still think it's ridiculous. If you say the Japanese do not deserve a War memorial then we should condemn the entire World for their celebration of Warlords.

it wouldnt make a difference, you will still be cold and the appology is never enough, the shrine will never be removed, it has been there far before ww2 and serves to more then just imperial soldiers.

despite the atrocities, these were Japanese soldiers, who served there country.

again, Mao destroyed an entire civilization, and is glorified as a hero. when those come down then maybe you can complain, but until then dont be a hypocrite.

No, don't need for more apology, I don't think your neighboring countries wants another fake apology from Japan.
What Japan needs to do is teach their children the truth about the Japanese aggression and remove themselves from the "hate group". This is the least Japan should do.

Fair enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC-F6VUyGZM...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8PXbEzdBuk...feature=related

Here's the thing that bothers me about Japanese denial of war atrocities: they are only able to do this because their white masters in America said it was okay.

If Japanese people took up this position of denial on their own, fine. If they say, "Hey, war is war, we're not apologizing", then fine. If they say "Get over it China", then fine. I can at least respect them for sticking to their ideals and being tough about it. However, this is not the case.

There was this little thing known as the Treaty of San Francsico, which basically said that Japan did not have to pay a single dime to China. This treaty was enforced by America and Japan hides behind it every single time that China brings up apologies or reparations. Here, look it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_San_Francisco

Notice how Vietnam, Philipines, Indonesia, and Burma got reparations from this treaty but China and Korea did not? Do you think this was an accident? The treaty does provide for returning assets back to China, but NOTHING about reparations or compensation for civilians and POW's from China. The treaty also says that Japan is immune from all future law suites. Don't you think it's odd that a treaty which deprives China could be ratified without China's consent? Does it seem a little unfair? Well, that's because it is. In case you forgot, white men are the kings of the "unfair" treaty. Just look at the treaties with Native Americans.

If you don't trust wikipedia, then just click on some of the reference links. This is one of the best cited and thorough articles on wiki.

So, you see friends, Japan is only able to get away with this kind of ongoing denial because of this treaty that America backs. They would not be able to do this on their own, they are not able to be tough on their own, and they need this unfair treaty written by America to hide behind, each and every single time. You know that they call this on the school yard? They call it being somebody's little b!tch, and that is exactly what Japan is: America's little b!tch.

Like I said, if Japan were able to hold these tough positions on China on their own, I would at least respect them for it, but as it is, they are nothing but a punk, hiding behind America's power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese...7s_Compensation
Mao Zedong waived Japan's War reparations.

http://www.jiyuu-shikan.org/e/reparations.html
Delusional? Korea did receive war reparations

Okay, I stand corrected about Korea. Thanks for pointing that out.

As for Mao Zedong waiving Japan's War reparations? I did not find that anywhere in your link. Please quote the specific link which indicates that Mao Zedong waived reparations from Japan. They simply could not come to an agreement and the PRC refused to accept what Japan was handing them, it does not mean they refused reparations all together. It's like if I smashed your car with my car, and then I offered you $100 to make the case go away. Would you accept that $100 in exchange for never bring up the case again? I doubt you would.

My original opinion stands: The only reason Japan is able to get away with their position is because of America's backing. Without America's backing, I doubt they would have the balls to be suck arrogant pricks about the whole thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Communi...public_of_China

The belief I've read from the Chinese History Forums is along the lines of Mao's adherence to Buddhist principles but more likely that War reparations would have crippled Japan. They think that Mao thought that the issue should be dropped all together so that Japan and China could maintain relations and not breed revenge on Japan's part.

Anyway, Japan has historically been arrogant pricks. They didn't have anyone's backing when they went out and conquered parts of Asia. As much as you can say Japan would not have survived or their arrogance without the United States protection post-war, you can say China would not have survived without the United States protection before or during the War. Although I am embarrassed with the recent administrations and their regression into Nationalistic fools.

Those are some interesting ideas. I'll definitely have to think about what you posted.



See, that's what I like about the feudal Japanese! Historically, they were a bunch of pricks and did what they wanted. I respect that. However, it seems to me that this new wave of nationalism in Japan is based upon sucking up to America. If these "neo-nationalists" in Japan were being Nationalistic for their own ends, then I can accept that. However, it's all about aligning themselves with US interests and keeping the rest of Asia down, and that's what is troublesome. There seems to be this tacit agreement between the US and Japan that the Japanese can be as aggressive as they want, so long as they are #2 to America's #1 in the Pacific.

I need to add: You're stance is completely on point, Japan would've been completely shunned post-war even more so than Germany since the only relevant peoples in Asia were the Chinese and the Chinese+Russian would've killed Japan. Nut-hugging the U.S makes complete sense in that regard. Japan has turned into what they feared most... KOREAN. UGHHHHHHH. I'd love to blame it on Zainichi Koreans infiltration into the Government but if I only had proof. =P

Tamogami view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSPxHnjT0jg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R5h4or5qFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00sBbkKKBMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYHiAPeQnZw

to our knowledge, lol we won the war. what about the genocide of the native americans? and the slaves (which alot more died ww2 and ww1 casualties put to gether)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_experim...e_United_States

1. All Top nations were involved in Human experimentation.
2. All Top nations were involved in Imperialism.
3. All Top nations were involved in a Genocide of people.
4. All Top nations were involved in forced labor.
5. All Top nations were involved in wide levels of rape.
6. All Top nations were involved in bullying lesser nations.

Which is pretty scary if you ask me.

But Japan was above group.

so was china....