http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s36ZYMjmXC0

.............. good luck watching it.............

the animals need a voice...............

Why don't you post it on Chinese chat ?? And it seems like you enjoying browsing on Youtube looking for video that can demean China.

And if you like Youtube videos so much then I will show you some video about India if you want.

Why your getting so offended? He posted the video in the right section. The fur trade of China had a very devastating effect on wildlife of India. SO its resonable to post it in this section. It is better people should realize the harmful effets of uncontrolled demand of natures bounties.

omg. thats so sad. theres also footage of some nurse somewhere in china that made a video of killing a cat with her high heels on. i think the same thing should be done to the nurse but with a huge tractor.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I read today that China's uncontrolled demand for timber is threatning forests in Indonesia, Philippines and else where in the world. Further, Tigers are in high demand, as each part of Tiger is used in chinese traditional medicines and its skin is very valuable because of this the national animal of India, Tiger has a very bleak future, but the chinese government just don't bother. Now the chinese government wants to bred tigers in 'tiger farms' to use them later for commercial purposes infact they have already started it. There are lots of serious questions to to be delt with or Tigers would be an extinct species in the near future.

• How ethical is 'Tiger farming' ?
• What needs to be done to stop illegal 'Tiger trading'?
• Will Tiger hunting stop if its demand stops? Should the use of tiger parts need to be banned if China agrees to do that?
• Is 'tiger farming' the solution to stop tiger hunting or it is as bad?

if you think the chinese government doesn't protect their tigers, I dare you to try and hunt them there. they will drag you out and put a bullet through your head the next morning.

And fur is not popular in China. If there's demand for something worldwide, someone in China will probably sell it.

Is this that one Peta video? Ive seen it and it sick, one of the worst sins. People like this need to be tortured for life. Not shot and killed, thats too merciful.

Gonna get me some fur boots.

Fur is more popular in Japan....but they are just copying Europeans.....

So if you were poor, drinking toxic, acid water and beating some racoon to death means feeding your kids and sending them to school, what would you pick?

Sorry, I can't fu-king stand people who have no sympathy for the poor and compare animals to people in developing nations. They don't kill animals for fun.

This is a very serious issue. You can't just say fur is not popular in China, do you have any credible sources to prove that?
I have sources to show you as how tigers are treated in China. Just read this.

Tiger meat on menu at Chinese tiger breeder
Discovery revealed at international talks on wildlife trade


This private tiger park in Harbin, China, charges tourists like the ones watching this scene from the bus at far left. Owners of parks like this one are trying to get a ban on trading tiger body parts lifted.

Associated press
Updated: 4:25 p.m. ET June 12, 2007

THE HAGUE, Netherlands - Chinese tiger breeders came under renewed scrutiny Tuesday when wildlife officials confirmed that a team of investigating journalists had been served tiger meet at a breeder's restaurant.

The report came on the eve of what was expected to be a heated debate on tiger conservation Wednesday at a meeting of the 171-nation Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, or CITES.

Journalists with British television network ITN visited Xiongsen Bear and Tiger Garden in Guilin, China, in February and sent some of the meat they were offered to a Chinese laboratory. DNA tests established it was tiger meat, ITN reported.

The farm's owner called the analysis fraudulent, but CITES senior enforcement officer, John Sellar, told delegates Tuesday that a respected U.S. laboratory had reviewed the Chinese test and said its findings "appear to be valid."

"We expect the issue to generate significant debate over whether China should continue allowing unlimited breeding by private owners, who then claim financial pressure and push to reopen trade to pay for their operations," said Steven Broad, executive director of wildlife monitoring group TRAFFIC.

On Wednesday, the CITES conference will discuss a policy paper on tiger conservation that calls for more cross-border cooperation on tiger conservation. International trade in tigers and tiger parts is banned by CITES.

Conservationists fear that Chinese authorities are being pushed by wealthy investors in tiger farms to end the 14-year domestic ban on tiger product sales.

Such a move would be disastrous for the world's estimated 5,000 wild tigers, the conservationists say.

"It would mean the end of the species," said Susan Lieberman, of wildlife lobby group WWF.

"They have done a great job on reducing demand (in China)," Lieberman said. "People in China know it is illegal now. The moment it becomes legal you will stimulate increased demand."

Tiger products are used in Chinese traditional medicines, but many in the industry have found alternatives since the ban came into force.

However, a perception that wild tiger parts are more potent than those of farmed tigers, and the fact that poaching tigers is far cheaper than rearing them in captivity, means the big cats remain under threat.

"It costs $1,000 a year to farm a tiger but just $1 for a farmer to kill one with a snare," said Lieberman.

source - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19193977/

The ends dont justify the means in this case, since the animals are innocent and shouldnt even be in this situation to begin with.

Now you are comparing humans to animals stating that humans are better? (thats what I get from your post) Who are we to say that we are better than they are? Is it an intelligence issue? If thats the case, lets exploit all of those mentally disabled kids as well.

Lets reverse that question. If my family was poor, drinking toxic, acid water, and someone offered me 10 million dollars to kill you and your family, and let them die a slow torturous death with their skins off, should I do it? I wouldnt take that money, or even the world if it was offered to me, its just wrong. However, if you are a bad person and have done bad things in your life, perhaps it could be justifiable. These animals did nothing. All we humans do is exploit the land and the animals, when will it end?

You cant stand people that dont sympathize with the poor? I cant stand people that think they are better than animals when we humans are the ones destroying the earth and everything around it. Logically, we are the worst things on this planet. Also, being poor is still most of the times better than being an animal in todays world. At least the poor can communicate with other people, live and get out of their situation. WHat can animals do but talk amongst themselves. Which is why they need people to fight for their rights.

Oh ok so you think humans should value animals just as much as other humans. So why are you even in human society then? Can you stand being around so many "murderers"?

Please don't tell me you eat meat either.



well, they did DNA testing to see if it really was tiger, the seller denied it was tiger, even the anti-China PETA nutcases said China did a good job preserving them. Doesn't sound like that's commonplace.

So you dont, right? Humans = Best thing on Earth?

Why am I in Human Society? Im a Human! That doesnt mean I need to support everything we do. If a Korean man kills and rapes a women, should I support him because Im Korean? Does that mean that the other person doesnt matter because that guy is Korean, and Im Korean?

And no, I dont eat meat. But, I dont think eating meat is wrong, its natural. Its a matter of how its down, much like these sick people. A quick and merciful death is how it should be. They should be able to graze the land. Thanks to money, which you think we should do anything (well at least to animals) to get, its not like that. Theres a problem to eating too much meat however, which we do in America and other countries. Theres also people that are gluttonous which lends a problem as well, not necessarily the meat/animal product itself.

Matter of fact, these corporations put out farmers that provide meats the natural way, without hormones and all that junk. So basically they are making people poor.

If you think you are king of the world, you shall surely fall. No one has no damn respect for anyone or anything. You take take and take and try to justify your reasons, when in fact, its just sick and perverted. Theres different paths in life, and you make life more fulfilling based on your choices. Id rather be poor than do such sick and cruel acts. Id rather do 15 hour jobs with little pay in a sweat shop then commit such an unforgivable act.

Again, you didnt answer my question. If it was flipped, should I take the 10 million and do the same to your family? Also, what about mentally retarded people? Should we exploit them as well?

No, because my family is human. I personally don't eat much meat (like 2-4 ounces a month) and I like animals but I'm not a hypocrite. Go look on youtube for how slaughtered animals (for meat) are treated. You're making a big deal about like .01% of difference in how they're killed.

If you want to stop them from killing animals for fur you can always hire these impoverished peasants (all over the world) to do something else. But they're not going to let their children starve so a racoon can live otherwise.

Well killed/treated is what I implyed. Which is why I stated "should be able to graze land". Actually the dairy industry is probably worst in other aspects then the consumption of meat. Also the poultry industry is horrible as well.

Also eating meat and still liking animals wouldnt make you a hypocrite. Our teeth are made for eating meat, its to survive. Although I dont eat meat, I dont find it hypocritical. However, it is hypocritical, if you support the people that do that sick stuff, be it pay for it, or actually participate in that act. Buying their products = continued use of these methods.

Exactly, so they will do another sin. Like I said, Im Korean, so I can kill you because you arent? How far do you want to make distinctions? In different cultures, the idea is that since you arent our race/culture, you are treated like an animal? Whats the different from the logic that you use?

Of course, animals cant talk English or any other of our languages, so is that how you distinguish how valuable they are? What is the measuring stick that you use? Is it your own personal belief, or is it something that society has engrained in you, just like a lot of other problems we have in the world?

Seriously, people say animals can be exploited with this and come up with ridiculous logic to support their claims. You give me one reason and Ill give you ten to support why they should be treated with dignity. Reasoning to support this is baseless. However you are entitled to your own opinion, I just find it quite weak.

So it's OK to kill animals if you stun them first? And since animals are equal to humans it's OK to kill humans if you incapacitate them and eat them?

I don't buy fur, and I don't think anyone should. But saying random poor people should die because they kill animals to survive is stupid.

But by living in human society of course you are contributing to things that damage animals; like bulldozing their habitats, supporting people who kill animals with your money/work, etc. And by eating grains you're eating their food or using up their grazing lands, or they will be slaughtered by farmers/pesticides, or run over by cars, cut to death by tractors/grain harvesters, etc.

And since animals and humans are both equal how come it's ok for a leopard to slowly rip a deer into pieces but it's so bad when random peasants do it?

If you take care of the animals their whole lives and let them live out a free one, I believe so. We are made to eat meat, just look at our teeth. Be it animals, humans, we are made to eat meat, and vegetables. Also why not? Again with your logic that people are the ultimate, look at our population. People pop out 5 to 10 babies per person. Thanks to the human, the resources are draining, we contribute to pollution, animals are losing their habitats, etc. Logically, my belief makes more sense. You have yet to prove the reason why the human being is the ultimate creation (or being to make matters simple).

Look at the way they do it! Thats wrong in and of itself! I personally am not against fur in general, but the way it is today, its blown out of proportion. Types of fur that I feel is ok is the way Native Americans and other cultures did it. They killed the animal for food, used their fur for coats, etc. They were not wasteful as people of today. Plus, a lot of people CARED for the animals and wished them and did the best they could to deliver a quick death. These sick people dont do the same.

lol, I have heard that reasoning by meat eaters before, they always need to be right. Actually meat takes more land and much more resources to produce than crops. I do agree though, there will be some loss, be it life, resource, etc. no matter what you do. Its a matter of managing. Also organic foods (depending on which type you get) greatly reduces these impacts. Whatever we do will cause pollution/death/etc. in some form, but we can manage it and greatly reduce these numbers, but people are too consumed with money. Energy compliant monitors, those energy conservation light bulbs, etc. all make big differences in the end. Its all about choices, but people are too involved with their life. Only if something benefits them do they care. The human being is selfish.

Generally in the wild its a quick kill, look at how a lot of them bite at the neck. Even if the animal is alive for some period, I can guarantee that its not as painful as having your skin torn off, while being alive, and left to die like that.

The fact that you see humans as the one above all, you would think that with our technology and knowledge that we could even surpass them, but I guess not? Again a lesson to learn. With all of our knowledge, we use it for bad things. We do not contribute to the world with our knowledge, but destroy it.

Animals kill for food, people kill for money. People are greedy, therefore they do not care about life (well maybe their own). Why must those that commit evil try and console their guilt with lies and backward reasoning? White people did that to the blacks in America for 400 years, and now we look down at it. Its the same thing concept and logic, just pushed further down.

It's not immoral if we kill some off, though I'd prefer not to. Species wipe eachother out all the time. And some species of animal kill for fun.

Cats routinely torture mice and elephants stomp rhinos to death if they're bored.

In human society, humans are worth more, obviously. We fight for our own "in the wild" I guess.

Again, thats a human problem. We put blame on a lot of things which is actually our own. Cats in the wild do not do that, domestic cats do. Domestic cats also do not know how to hunt nor are they trained by their parents. In the wild its much different. The human being domesticated animals, therefore animals act in ways which they were not meant to. Not saying that cats dont do this, but this is a valid point to bring up.

Theres also the problem with sea life. Lots of things, such as our contribution to pollution, the ozone layer, etc. effect the cycles of a lot of these animals. When a shark ends up biting a person the people call it a monster. How ironic.

Same can be applied to the elephants.

You see, this is all human intervention at work. If humans did not have such a mentality, a lot of our problems wouldnt exist, that also includes poor people. How do people get poor? Because of people. Be it an addiction (drugs, alcohol), laziness, or someone else being the cause of it, theres no one else to blame but people. Again, you can bring up Katrina, but theres evidence to prove that that too was a Human problem. Most things in life that are a problem is due to all of us. If everyone contributed, we could wipe out poverty all over the world. People are just too stuck on themselves. And when people do give, they make sure the world knows about it.

I can sort of see your reasoning, but I still dont agree with the fur deal. I can see you saying that you humans are worth more since you are human, but I cant understand the reasoning of doing such horrible acts.

because they need to survive.

and like I said, if I need to survive and someone gives me 10 million, does it make it ok to kill you? Even if we are human, I can easily make a division based on race (like white, black, etc.) and use that exact same logic.

Why don't you ask law-makers to make it legal then? You could say it's morally wrong for both, but please get real, humans are obviously going to value humans more than animals. And simply in an economic, pragmatic sense, humans are worth at least 100,000 times more than animals. Regardless of what "we're doing to the Earth" (trust me, "mother nature" could survive anything we do to her atm. it's just that she'd kill us all off eventually), unless you're some hippie/wildboy, money has a significant meaning and humans are simply worth more of it.

If you want to allow animals to marry humans, vote on elections, drive cars, perform brain surgery, then by all means go start an official petition.. I'll sign it, just for kicks. Then you have to give the death penalty (or life in prison) to all animals that overeat (and please don't say there aren't any) and all big cats (like the ones i saw on planet earth) that don't kill their prey immediately.

I mean it's easy for someone with money like you to say to tell someone at the bottom of the foodchain how to live his life. Even if he could, I suppose, save up 10 years of his salary to buy a machine that makes animal death painless is it suddenly more moral? I mean you can't kill someone even if it's painless, lol.

And by the way, unless you punch your mother in the face I'm going to slowly torture this ant to death.
I just think it's really sick and perverted for you to even pretend that you wouldn't do the same thing in their position.

Seriously you have very uneducated views. Didn't you read anything about the food chain and its effect on the balance of nature? The balance of nature is very delicate and complex. Even one extinct species and the balance gets unstable. If humans continue to harm the nature like that, time will come when it will boomrang on us, but by then I am afraid it would be too late.

Who is more valuable is not an issue. Nature treats all of the living beings as equal be it birds, animals, humans, fishes, trees, or micro-organisms. The main thing is what should be done so that balance of nature will remain stable and healthy. As the part of Earth we have some responsibilities, and the responsibilities become greater because we are the most intelligent animals in this planet. If we can build dams and change the course of rivers then I think mother nature definitely gets affected by our actions. So don't think that whatever we do nature can make-up for it, nature will surely make some amends, but if the damage is too much then it would be irreparable. A person who is not sensitive to his/her environment is a totally foolish person.

NOTE - Other parts of your post are so unworthy that I don't feel like answering them, so I cut short your post.

here is the cat and dog one........ u wanna watch??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP1NS0mwuy4

and this guy is funny..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOPNIWVrjc...ted&search=

lol, so its ok to do what we do to the earth and it can survive? Youve got to be kidding me. Not only are you hurting the earth, you are causing pain to your fellow humans which you say is the most valuble thing on earth. If you cant care about the earth, at least care about the things you say is most important to you.

And why are you putting words in my mouth? When did I say such a thing? Obviously there are differences, but that doesnt mean they need to be treated like trash. Women give birth, and men dont, therefore are they unequal? Men are generally stronger than women, does that make them unequal? Animals overreat? In the wild? I know domesticated animals are...again thanks to people.

I dont have a lot of money, what are you talking about? Just because Im not dirt poor doesnt mean I dont know how to survive.

You torture that ant its on your own person. People that feel they are better just have a bad ego. Im sick...lol its funny since you are the one that admits this is ok. I said I wouldnt do this, but I guess you wouldnt believe me.

You have no logic to this issue at all. You spit things out without knowledge on the issue either. Ive given many LOGICAL reasons to defend my case and you just give opinions. Ive also listed many reasons to our problems which started from Human Intervention. I guess Humans are still the only ones to be respected even though they are the cause of ALL the troubles on the earth. You listed cats torturing mice, human problem. Elephants stomping rhinos, human problem. And on and on. Wow, we are so special that we can do all of this yet still be the most revered creature on earth. If anything, we need to give back...A LOT. Truth always defeats falsehood.

we do it because we can. there are no morals in the wild, sorry. morals are a human invention and can't be applied to animals like marriage, voting, etc.

and no, elephants stomping rhinos to death isn't a human problem neither is hippos biting crocodiles in half; they're extremely territorial animals.

and yes, the earth can survive anything humans can do to it. life on it can't, and it's possible that it'll turn into a burning blob of gas, but it'll still be there.

their just animals who cares

Life on Earth makes it unique. You wanna say that life will be lost and Earth will be there so? Too much logic makes a man mad. Can't help laughing, this post is a complete trash. Totally

Yeah, I said Earth will be just fine. Now if you want to say the plants and trees and animals that you hug, then probably not. But we'll fix all these problems eventually.

yea well i guess the earth keeps spinning .........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Np5x74NfU

Oh this is horrible. They shouldn't treat animals this way. Animals need help.

Fukkin sick scum of the earth bastards!!!

When are we going to have some chinese skin boots on the market? Theres like a billion of them anyway. IT'LL MEAN MORE MONEY FOR ECONOMIC GROW!

Anyway..At least its china.They'll probably eat the dog and cat meat after. No wasting!

I can assure you, the real profits of this fur trade go to an elite few.China stinks with corruption.I'm sure these skinners are working for minimum/below min wages.




Yea mother nature can survive us..But at what cost? What will the loss of biodiversity be? Lost biodiversity is irreplaceable.Whatever species we wipe out will never walk the face of the earth again.
Besides, so what if a few chinese bite the dust?lol...They aint going extinct anytime soon..

This thread is slowly becoming an anti-China thread. I hope people realise that despite the disgusting activity in the videos, that not all Chinese are this way.

It's also true that China's hardly a perfect country and has more than a few problems to deal with, but India also has it's own problems. We have no right to cast stones when our back garden hardly smells of roses.

Yeah I like animals. I am agaisnt cruety to animals. There are many other alternatives.

IF that was directed to me, then all i have to say, is that my chinese comments were purely made in good fun.
Lighten up..Better me make fairly sensible satrical jokes than say something like this -

well, the OP has an anti-China agenda on these boards.

Normally I wouldn't bat an eyelid, but there's enough trouble when it comes to India-China topics on this forum, I just hope we can keep it out of India chat.