As you can see in this map, Vientiene was this close to Siam before..

Wow thats is so close

vientiane wasn't close to the thai border before when issan was apart of laos


what's up with that map? cambodge? annam? birmanie?!

When you look at the old map Viengchan is almost right at the center of Lanxang.

why is that every northeastern provinces belongs to lao?

if lao want that back, then i want surintr, buri ram, sri saket, ubon ratchathani, roi et, nakorn rajasima back.

anyway, northeast remains thai.

I dunno why, probably Laos is getting Thailand's support I guess.

Lets start off with the French treaty. All 16 changwat of Laos was given to the Thais under French colonial rule. Yeah, I understand all of it use to belong to the Khmer empire, but then again, France used to be part of the Roman Empire too. We have to distinguish ancient medieval history with recent history. I think 1828 is fairly recent in the time line of history. Don't you think? Plus, Laos fought the Thais over the mistreatment and exploitation Lao people. Thailand's economy was built on the blood and sweet of Lao people.

difference is, Uthong Ramathidbodi gave Isaan region, including vientiane to Fa Ngum, even after Fa Ngum challenged Uthong for the region, Uthong gracefully withdrew any claim to the Khorat plateau region to Lanxang.

this treaty was between two Kingdoms Lanxang and Ayutthya, not a third party like France representing Laos, for which they were only interested in their own self interest not the interest of the Nation from which they were speaking in behalf of.

if it was given to Lanxang, then there shouldnt be any arguing what region belongs to whom,

just like when the Pra Keo was given to Lanxang not taken by force, so it should belong to the place it was given to,

If Isaan and Pra keo were given to Laos Lanxang, then it belongs to Laos Lanxang.
If Isaan and Pra keo were borrowed by Laos Lanxang, then Lanxang should give it back.

According to Manleow Isaan and Pra Keo belong to Laos Lanxang.

Give means to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation.
Borrow means to take or obtain with the promise to return the same or an equivalent.

Here is what the letter between King Rama Thebodi Uthong and King Fah Ngoum said...


King RamaTibodi Outhong of Ayuthaya (Lan Phya) answered to king Fah Ngoum: "We are brothers since Khoun Bourôm. If you want to increase your kingdom, I yield Gift to you Sam Sao in Phou Phagna Pho, limiting of Nakhon Thai. I will send to you each year of sugar in tribute. When my daughter is in age, I will make you lead it to be your maidservant. Prepare the plaits and pillows (cf Nithan Khoun Bourôm (quoted C$op, pp. 56-61), - églt Mission Pavia (quoted C$op, pp. 28-29).).Nïthan Xhoun Bourôm by Auguste Pavia (Pavia Mission, volume 11, Paris 1898),Nithan Khoun Eourôm Rasathirath (quoted C$op, pp. 36. 39) and Nangsu Khoun Bourôm (volume 2, Library of Bangkok)

it's in french, and annam is what vietnam used to be called.

it's on the mekong river, and most important cities need a source of water and water transport. :/ in addition, many national borders are formed by natural borders, because they are easy to define. in this case, it's the mekong river. when issan became thai territory, they decided that their territory would end at the mkong.

how close am i to the right answer?

^Actually, Siam didn't get the COMPLETE Western Bank of the Mekong River, some parts of the Mekong from Eastern to the Western bank still belongs to Laos. You could litterally walk across into Thailand without having to cross the river. You can't tell by maps unless you look at really good ones.

wow there are oriental and occidental Laos

Here is why Click! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_people

my dear lao friend, the laotian people were not the original people since ancient time. the lands were once occupied by the khmers, who never left their homeland.

wikipedia is editable. any one can write on it.

the khmers of north-eastern thailand were always in their land since ancient times. they still speak khmer to this day.

"my dear lao friend, the laotian people were not the original people since ancient time. the lands were once occupied by the khmers, who never left their homeland." True that , and if Fa ngum was not the son in law of the khmer king then khmer identity might have been wiped out by now. Even the feature of the issan peoples still hold strong the khmer looks and feature .

"wikipedia is editable. any one can write on it. " Its funny how alot of people are using it as a source .

"the khmers of north-eastern thailand were always in their land since ancient times. they still speak khmer to this day. " Before the fall of Angkor northern and southern Issan was all khmer. When lanxang was created millions of lao moved to issan, mix with the khmer and kept on mixing ever since. After king Anouvongs war most of the lao population in the west bank and especially from northern laos was relocated to issan for Siam to control.

Issan was taken by Sukhothai from the khmer empire. Sukhothai decline in power and Ayodhaya rose taking many of Sukhothais territory. King Outhong then gave Issan to Fa ngum creating Lanxang. Southern Issan and southern laos was then share territory by Fa ngum and the khmer king. They still speak khmer in southern Issan but not northern issan . Buriram , Sisaket, Roi et, Korat, and Part of Oubon has people that still speak khmer but not the north issan. By now the lao blood is much more than khmer in Issan from the depopulation of lao and lao slaves from northern lao.


The main river that the lao migrated to is Ping river, Wung river, kong river(mekong) , Moon ( in Oubon Rasa Tani) , Manam river( chao praya), and Say river .

Stop living in the past,will you. The land changed hands Funan, Chenla, Ankgor,Lanxang,Siam, it's all history.

Lao took the lands from from the Mon people who made up the kingdom of Siam).Siam took the lands from lao,France took the lands from Siam. It's wars of territerial expandsion era.It's all in the past.(no one is better than the others)

Tell your gorvernment to take good care of your people.Make them feeling happy and secure in their country.That should be the right thing to do.

My dear Khmer brother, the Khmers were not the original people since ancient times, but rather the "negritos" who once roam all over South East Asia. Rather than get into debate of who came first or who came later, we should look at the effects Issan had on Lao people as a whole. One of the reasons why Vientiane went to war with Thailand in the first place was due to the mistreatment of Lao people: "Here, we got to remember that Siam was at the initial stage of capitalism. They needed all the labor surplus to generate capital needed for the take-off of their economy. Since they newly acquired Lao lands, vassal states they might be, they treated these Lao subjects as their own subjects. In some cases, the treatment was less than human. What galvanized the Lao into action was the branding of the Isan male with a mark. It was said this was to ensure that the proper taxation and, ultimately, the control of manpower. The Lao, repeatedly forced to work gratuitously, were disrupted from their capacity to make a living. When more complaints were arrived from many Isan Muang still under the jurisdiction of Vientiane and Champassak kingdom, Chao Anou had to take measures or he would be rendered as a mere puppet king and therefore would lose any legitimacy of power over his own people, not to mention the Lao pride."

We have a saying in Lao, "Bor Me Pai Khao Jai Khon Thai Dee Gon Khon Lao"("No One Understands Thai people better than Lao people").

What sup Siri.

What's up,boy.

Still dating your Thai labyboyfriend?

Some taste you have.

All of your words here just showed Sirikittong Mr. Peaceman. The land that lao took from the Mon is Haripunchaiya in Lanna . That is taken by the lao king of Lanna. If the truth is hurting you then take the pain peaceman. You have so much pride in the Mon , what happen to khmer people of Siam Peaceman? Mon is khamen people and Khmer is khamen people. Why do you have so much pride in Mon but always seem to deny Khmer? You act like Khmer never existed in the history of Siam. Isn't Siampobura a khmer city to begin with . You must be hurt because I mention that 80 percent of the lao population were relocated to Issan and mostly from northern laos. Does it hurt to know the truth that they are lao people ?

I was not living in the past but making addition statement of the past responding to what another member have posted. You once posted on a different topic about Siam magical tattos coming from the lao Pung dum( lao lanna) but Siam magical tatto is in khmer script not Mon script like Lanxang, Lanna, and Shan state. Thats a denial of Khmer people.

"Lao took the lands from from the Mon people who made up the kingdom of Siam).Siam took the lands from lao,France took the lands from Siam. It's wars of territerial expandsion era.It's all in the past.(no one is better than the others)"
Lanxang did not take the land from the Mon people. The first king of Lanxang was sent up by his father in law ( khmer king) to take over kingdom and preserve khmer identity. This land was of the khmer which had the same ancestors as the Mon. Angkor kingdom is khmer . If I need to get deep I can point out where different things are from over 1500 years ago as evidence. I'll even tell you where it is , what province and what city. I know the exact location of these things and there are millions of it and too much to destroy.

"Tell your gorvernment to take good care of your people.Make them feeling happy and secure in their country.That should be the right thing to do."
I have nothing to do with the lao government . I have no rights to tell them how to run their country for I do not live in laos. They are not my government because they do not govern me and I do not live within their pheripheral boundary. I have no say whatsoever because I am not lao citizen. If you say tell the US government , I will reply my votes count.

ผมเป็นนักศึกษา อายุ 19 ปี ได้ร้จักธุรกิจนี้จากสื่ออินเตอร์เน็ต รายได้ในเดือนแรก ผมสามารถทำรายได้ประมาณ 6,000 บาท จากนั้นก็พัฒนารายได้มาเรื่อย ๆ จนในปัจจุบันมีรายได้ประมาณ 30,000 บาท สำหรับสิ่งที่ได้มากกว่าเงิน คือ อิสรภาพทางด้านเวลา และยังได้ไปท่องเที่ยวในต่างประเทศอีกด้วยครับ

Can you please read and translate this for me Peaceman .
Only peaceman please , I don't want anyone to translate besides peaceman.

It said " I'm the 19 years old student I knew this bussiness from the internet.My 1st month salary was about 6000 baht." and so on .Yeah, this is only peacman.

What is a matter with you,Mr.EK! I've never dinial my khmer ancestors. I did mention that Sakyun of Thai people does use the ancient Khmer script but we also used them with the drawing on the skin from the" Lao pung dum"(which again got influences from the Mon) along with the chanting in Pali. I even asked for more information from you guys.Which part is a lie.

I also mentioned that the Mon and Khmer mixed as "hybrid" in Lawo kingdom is one of the major kingdom that made up Siam.( so who first droved the Lawa people down to the central Thai?)


I even point out since the begining that Thai people is the combination of Tai/Ailao,Mon/Khmer,Malay,Chinese all blended together as "one"(kingdom merged, inter-marriages).Sukothai,Ayuttaya,srivichai and so on.

I just wanted to point out that Thai arts and martial arts came from the process of combined and modified our ancestor's arts together as "one."Definitly not from one side of our ancestors alone,but from all.

Tell me how did I dinied my roots.I treasure them all and proud to be "Hybrid" of all their blood.


The problem here is people became possessing with their glory in the past.And used them against the others. Which ain't right.

In the past Each kingdoms hurt each other badly,And no one is better than the other.(which kingdom doesn't do slavery)


We could all living in peace and making the best out of the present.'coz we are all related.

As for Thailand today if you're frank enough you'll know that discrimation against races here is very scarce to find.We didn't even care what France have done to us anymore. We even respect king Bayengnong of Burma and Jayvaraman vII as great warriors.How fair you want us to be.

BTW :my earlier post on this thread was not actually for you; as you can see It was not the direct replied.

อายุ 19 < so this is ayo 19? COOL! I'm learning thai by just looking at it..

Sorry on topic - you are not sirikittong but when you make claims and give a 1 sided view on history, you will be accused of being siri.

the majority ethnic makeup of Isaan are Lao ppl, dispite the debate of who own what during what time,

so with that alone, Isaan is still Lao territory, just a province of Thailand, which the thais are nothing but a mix of Lao and khmer ppl anyway.

I was just testing you Peaceman. It was because your words were the same as Sirikittong. Sirikittong can not read Thai. I agree with you that all kingdoms takes slaves. Empire rise and fall , but I was pointing out the ethnicity in Issan is not majority khmer now. They do still have khmer blood in them but not all. I am not stuck in the past but I am the present and the future.

What does a king usually do Peaceman? He claims and take what is rightfully his. Issan and Lanna was mines in the past . It will be mines in the future. I will take everything that is rightfully mines lolz... You sound like an educated man peaceman. You should know by know the fate and future of Thailand.

I just based on your words. Last time you said Prakeo and Isaan were given to Lanxang, which I agree with you. Give means to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation.

Just wanted to let you know that Isaan is not just a province of Thailand. Isaan is the northeast region of Thailand which divided into 19 provinces. To me Isaan is a Lao territory under Thai rules. true story.

There should be no question whatsoever to which country Issan belongs to. First of all, the Khmer king gave Chao Fa Ngum the permission and blessings to create his own kingdom. There is no doubt in my mind that Lanxang was the most powerful after the fall of Angkor. From Sipsongpanna in Yunnan China to Xieng Teng(Stung Treng) in Cambodia to the original 16 Changwat in Northeast Thailand. And let's not forget Lanna Lao who our king, Chao Sai Setthathirat ruled over.

Oh yeah, I forgot to include the Viet terriorities that was once Lao.

1 sided view on history?explain.

make claims...Are you talking about the help from the Thai on Cambodia' arts after KR?Check weather Bhupha Dhavi ever seek help from Thai "Grom Silp" on the dances.

BTW about the recents help Thai did for Cambodia that u guys said its pure propaganda.Check out who help builded the college "วิทยาลัยพระราชทาน กัมปงเฌอเตียล"(more Thai for U to read.) and gave to Cambodia a few year back.It mingt not count as a pure cultural help,so I didn't mention it before on the other thread.

I've never compete with you guy who's better than who.Since people came in here and using history to attack us.All I'm say'in here is Stop using the past to hurt each other,will you?

Please don't misinterpret.

Exactly! There should be no question whatsoever to which country Issan belong to. It's in Thailand and not in Lao, does it?

So Khmer king gave it of Fa Ngum. So who gave it to the Khmer king? lol.(How did he gathered all the lands without any forced.)

you're talking about this source?

http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/2006/05/30/w...?news_id=107617

Yes! your intendsion is very clear!So I'll have to serve my King.Well, let's hop on the elephant and fight each other.lolz

Yeah!That's where I copied the Thai scripts from,since I can't type Thai.lolz

Thai are "nothing" but a mix of Lao and Khmer ppl?

This is exactly 1 sided ignorant view.....The FACT is......We are the "Hybrid" of Tai/Ailao,Mon/khmer,Malay,and Chinese mixed as "one."

Edited:when I said mixed I mean really mixed as relatives(inter-marriages)majority of Sukothai ppl and Ayodhaya were Tai/Ailao mixed with Mon/khmer. Srivijai were Indians/Java (malay)Mon/Khmer.Thunburi were 20-25% of Chinese mixed with the Native. And now we are all relatives from every regions.

Plus: Srivijai merged into Ayuttaya without wars.

One of the major reason we changed the name from Siam to Thailand is...To show that we are "Thai" and all of us are the owners of this country.

We are the Hybrid with our beloving Hybrid King.

I agree totally. Siam is just Central Thailand ( mixture of Mon/khmer, Tai/Ailao, Malay, Chinese , and other small tribes) . Thailand and Thai people are Siam plus the lao of issan and lanna, and Khmer of southern Issan .

Lets see who gets the last laugh when Bangkok falls into the ocean.

Are you talking about NOO NOI CHA LONG LOY LUAT prophecy?

"วิทยาลัยพระราชทาน กัมปงเฌอเตียล"

Maha vitiyalai pra racha tarn gunpong

where is this place at peaceman?

basicly just a mix of lao and khmer ppl,

i have said that all along, u can include all the other ethnics as u said,

im just speaking in the general sense, from the basic Largely Lao regions in the north mixing in the basic Largely Khmer regions in the south, and meeting in the middle thus creating the Thai ppl, or siamese, whatever u want to call them

We just move up to the Issan region I have too many relitives and lands all over.

BTW: You must have laughed so hard during the "Sunami" in Thailand ,too.It seem like your post is not worthed to reply anymore.

So we are not "just" a mix of Ailao and khmer. We are the Hybrid of all of our ancestors' blood.They're all help created this nation.

We might shared the "Tai-Ailao" ancestors, but You're "Lao" and we are "Thai" I'm happy we are related,but to claim this land and people as yours.That's too much.This is the twenty1st century.

BTW: Since "Ailao" and "Tai" are the same people Issan are our people,just been through differents kingdoms.

Visit Thailand now you'll see majority of "Issan" people don't called themselves "Lao","Coz they're "Thai",although they might be of the "Tai/Ailao" ethnic groups.They're happily and proudly considering themselves as "Thai"

อำเภอสมโบร์ไพรกุก จังหวัดกัมปงธม
That's where it is AiEK.Why? You want to go to school there?

Maybe on my next trip I might. Maybe go and give the teachers there a hard time lolz...

May I join you,bro.

Yes, but I have to makes friends with you with a different sign names first. The moment someone knows what elephantking looks like he will be another Mr. McRowan in Issan .