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liaa
I know, thinks for sharing. Poor kids, I hate that.

This person absolutely nailed my perception of the west too for years.

QUOTE
This is the horror of a real inverse "crime" and perception. For the most powerful army in the world rocks are not any sort of threat.
You are idiots, barbarians and you are like hi-tech prehistorics animals.
Jarhier
disgusting. absolutely disgusting. you can still see some comments trying to justify or call it a fake. unbelievable.
JuicyFruit
I'm pretty sure that the soldiers in the second video beating the children are British, not American.

Edit: They're British:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y279RSwi7jA
liaa
QUOTE(JuicyFruit @ Aug 20 2007, 03:20 PM) [snapback]3149671[/snapback]
I'm pretty sure that the soldiers in the second video beating the children are British, not American.

Edit: They're British:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y279RSwi7jA


Doesn't matter because the problem is the western mindframe and seeing others as beneath them.
P. Bredahl
theres your freedumb ;P
Dark_Goku
QUOTE(Thabo @ Aug 19 2007, 11:29 PM) [snapback]3147666[/snapback]
viewer discretion advised
This is only a sample of the thousands of crimes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lY1gaIpyA


That is not a crime. That is what they do in America. Just a difference in culture I am afraid.

Also at least it wasn't full grown adults running after the U.S. soldier for that water. LOL!

But honestly it isn't a crime since it is just teasing and they do that in America all the time with anyone who is poor, which makes up over 60% of the population in America. Also they could just be chasing them because they are American rather than just the water. I mean would children so easily run for water even in the desert environment? Honestly, those children should have been in school and they do have schools in Iraq.

QUOTE


Yeah that can be rightfully called a crime of too much executive privledge and aggressive brutality and unnecessary ends. However, this is seen all the time in the United States by our own police so it is just a natural part of being American. LOL! Also, those aren't American Soldiers. Those were obviously British by the way they ran like girlish little fags.

QUOTE


That is not a fourteen year old girl, more like four years old if you ask me. And second there is nothing really in evidence to support this as being true although it wouldn't shock since Americans did worst things to the Southern Vietnamese.

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Could be seen as a crime, but that could have been one of the soldier's cars that was bought in Iraq. Also nothing unexpected as worst things are seen in America by American law enforcement.

QUOTE


They've done worst things in the states alone. Also monkeys are as likely to throw rocks at a dog as human beings, therefore I see no actual animal brutality.


QUOTE(liaa @ Aug 20 2007, 03:49 PM) [snapback]3149723[/snapback]
Doesn't matter because the problem is the western mindframe and seeing others as beneath them.


I'm afraid all people on this Earth are very much like that in every community. For instance, the Arabs believe they are the superior race at least that is how the Baathist party operates, which was based off of Nazism. Also the Naga people of Southern Asia believe they are superior to all other people in Southern Asia. The Chinese believe they are superior to Tibetans, Mongolians, Uyghurs, Miao, Hmongs, and Zhuangs. The Yamato Japanese believe they are superior to the Ryukyuans and the Ainu.

And the black people in various communities believe they are superior to other black people or to both whites and asians. Therefore everyone believes they are superior to other people and very much show it on a daily basis.
Jor
^Nobody's talking about what's a crime, doofus. We're talking about the bull$hit that America is there to liberate these people. Obviously not true. We don't care about them, we never did. We didn't topple Saddam for them. We didn't even do it for oil. We did it because we get off doing that $hit. It's fun! We're just like the scumbags in those videos--fu-king someone up for laughs.

Fortunately, we are getting what we deserve--our asses handed to us. For all our bragging and strutting, we're getting our asses kicked by a ragtag gaggle of towelheads. The big bully pushed the littlest kid in the sandbox and got his balls kicked into his throat.

What a waste.
Dark_Goku
QUOTE(Jor @ Aug 20 2007, 10:20 PM) [snapback]3150403[/snapback]
^Nobody's talking about what's a crime, doofus.


Don't call me a doofus, Bushy Brows.

QUOTE
We're talking about the bull$hit that America is there to liberate these people.


Honestly do a history check about Saddam, you would know that they were liberated to some extent. At least now the Kurds have their own region of autonomy. They didn't have that before.


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Obviously not true. We don't care about them, we never did.


Who are you? Because you are obviously not a Westerner.

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We didn't topple Saddam for them.


Did you actually went into Iraq?


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We didn't even do it for oil.


You are obviously insane.

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We did it because we get off doing that $hit. It's fun! We're just like the scumbags in those videos--fu-king someone up for laughs.


You are obviously in need of seeing shreik.

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Fortunately, we are getting what we deserve--our asses handed to us.


Again, are you American and if you are did you serve in Iraq? Cause I think you aren't America or you were born in America but you were brainwashed into this viewpoint or you are delusional about reality. Because in reality every story has two sides and neither of them are true.

QUOTE
For all our bragging and strutting, we're getting our asses kicked by a ragtag gaggle of towelheads. The big bully pushed the littlest kid in the sandbox and got his balls kicked into his throat.

What a waste.


You need help. ASAP.
MILTON
QUOTE(Dark_Goku @ Aug 20 2007, 09:34 PM) [snapback]3150303[/snapback]
That is not a crime. That is what they do in America. Just a difference in culture I am afraid.

Also at least it wasn't full grown adults running after the U.S. soldier for that water. LOL!

But honestly it isn't a crime since it is just teasing and they do that in America all the time with anyone who is poor, which makes up over 60% of the population in America. Also they could just be chasing them because they are American rather than just the water. I mean would children so easily run for water even in the desert environment? Honestly, those children should have been in school and they do have schools in Iraq.
Yeah that can be rightfully called a crime of too much executive privledge and aggressive brutality and unnecessary ends. However, this is seen all the time in the United States by our own police so it is just a natural part of being American. LOL! Also, those aren't American Soldiers. Those were obviously British by the way they ran like girlish little fags.
That is not a fourteen year old girl, more like four years old if you ask me. And second there is nothing really in evidence to support this as being true although it wouldn't shock since Americans did worst things to the Southern Vietnamese.
Could be seen as a crime, but that could have been one of the soldier's cars that was bought in Iraq. Also nothing unexpected as worst things are seen in America by American law enforcement.
They've done worst things in the states alone. Also monkeys are as likely to throw rocks at a dog as human beings, therefore I see no actual animal brutality.
I'm afraid all people on this Earth are very much like that in every community. For instance, the Arabs believe they are the superior race at least that is how the Baathist party operates, which was based off of Nazism. Also the Naga people of Southern Asia believe they are superior to all other people in Southern Asia. The Chinese believe they are superior to Tibetans, Mongolians, Uyghurs, Miao, Hmongs, and Zhuangs. The Yamato Japanese believe they are superior to the Ryukyuans and the Ainu.

And the black people in various communities believe they are superior to other black people or to both whites and asians. Therefore everyone believes they are superior to other people and very much show it on a daily basis.



HAHAHAHAAHAH WHAT THE HELL!!! do you have any idea of what your talking about ? seriously...
Dark_Goku
QUOTE(MILTON @ Aug 20 2007, 10:34 PM) [snapback]3150444[/snapback]
HAHAHAHAAHAH WHAT THE HELL!!! do you have any idea of what your talking about ? seriously...


HAHAHAHAHA yes I do, d!ck sucking twit.

Over 60% of Americans belong in the Lower Class of Society or also known as the poverty side of American Society. This was because of Reagonomics making the Rich richer and the Poor poorer. Almost all people that live in the United States know this to be true.
liaa
QUOTE(Dark_Goku @ Aug 20 2007, 10:27 PM) [snapback]3150421[/snapback]
Don't call me a doofus, Bushy Brows.
Honestly do a history check about Saddam, you would know that they were liberated to some extent. At least now the Kurds have their own region of autonomy. They didn't have that before.
Who are you? Because you are obviously not a Westerner.
Did you actually went into Iraq?
You are obviously insane.
You are obviously in need of seeing shreik.
Again, are you American and if you are did you serve in Iraq? Cause I think you aren't America or you were born in America but you were brainwashed into this viewpoint or you are delusional about reality. Because in reality every story has two sides and neither of them are true.
You need help. ASAP.


I think it's you who need help. There are bad people in every society but condoning it isn't the answer for making a better world or saying that's the way it is so it's okay. It's the good people in every society who have a conscience who are trying to make a better world.

And no, I don't think it's good that they teased those kids or it's acceptable or they threw rocks at the injured dog. A lion will rip you to shreds too, should I kill you and do the same? You sound like a corrupt individual that goes along with anything.
tung2sai
I know bull$hit like these things happen in America...
but the expectations are higher when you are a soldier serving and representing your country in a foreign land.

I read one of the comments on the first video that said war isn't pretty, saying these type of things will happen in some way or another during times of war. People won't accept it as truth even if you show it to them right in front of their faces.
I live in the US, I don't think the number is that high (60%) living in poverty. There are cycles of poverty, ups and downs, there have been many cases of people rising above their situations or falling down again. There are more reasons than just economics, substance abuse, mental illness, etc. I mean what is the definition of poverty?

According to this article... roughly 13% of US population fall under federal poverty threshold, but even that is debateble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_th...ighting_poverty

tinman01
QUOTE(tung2sai @ Aug 20 2007, 11:59 PM) [snapback]3150688[/snapback]
I know bull$hit like these things happen in America...
but the expectations are higher when you are a soldier serving and representing your country in a foreign land.

I read one of the comments on the first video that said war isn't pretty, saying these type of things will happen in some way or another during times of war. People won't accept it as truth even if you show it to them right in front of their faces.
I live in the US, I don't think the number is that high (60%) living in poverty. There are cycles of poverty, ups and downs, there have been many cases of people rising above their situations or falling down again. There are more reasons than just economics, substance abuse, mental illness, etc. I mean what is the definition of poverty?

According to this article... roughly 13% of US population fall under federal poverty threshold, but even that is debateble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_th...ighting_poverty

Well said. As a vet i find the acts of these few d!ck weeds offensive. They make every one look bad. When you where the uniform you should always conduct yourself with the highest of standards.
60% poverty in the USA? Not a chance. Maybe in some select locations but with unemployment at 5% no way. Also no stat takes into account for those who are to ignorant to actually try to be something better. The career welfare bandits, the lazy, and those who feel crime is the short cut to success.
For Jor: America getting its @$$ handed to us? 3300+ dead in how many years? Military wise we are strong. Diplomatically? No doubt about it. Our Diplomats get owned daily.
I still say Iraq was about getting position on Iran and Syria nothing more nothing less and as usual our politicians choked on the call.
I offer an alternative approach. We don't like Iran or Syria. So what. Talk to them and find a middle ground both sides can live with and mind our own business about how they run their own countries. But let it be known. If we are attacked by those they support,fund, or harbor then they can expect a stealth bomb run on their capital buildings, the homes of their leadership and on anything else remotely connected to those who would attack us.
Jasel
QUOTE(Dark_Goku @ Aug 20 2007, 10:27 PM) [snapback]3150421[/snapback]
Honestly do a history check about Saddam, you would know that they were liberated to some extent. At least now the Kurds have their own region of autonomy. They didn't have that before.


America is not the world police. Do a history check about the US if you want to give anyone who feels like it an excuse to invade us. Believe me US leaders, politicians, and our military have started enough $hit to justify this country being invaded. Those people were not liberated. They're being occupied. They were dealing with a $hitty situation and are now dealing with an even $hittier situation that Republicans are trying to spray with febreeze and tell the world a garden is slowly blooming in Iraq. The entire thing is completely idiotic.

tung2sai
In my opinion, I think there is more to the war in Iraq than just oil, fighting terrorism and spreading democracy.

I remember reading one of those history/political academic papers in one of my poli sci. class and the author mentions how the Middle east, Europe and a significant part of Africa are all intertwined together through culture, religion, history, economy many things... Basically speaking, whoever can dominate or control the middle east (at least have a upper hand) can have dominance or the upper hand in all 3 regions.
Bulldogg
^
And Turkey is a very stretgic point, also.
Your talking about and ancient silk road that once lead pass through Baghdad who once was 1 of the richest cities hundreds of years ago, there have been too much histrocial wars between religions that has layed the ground work for that region to be unrest, and from the beginning of the last decade the Western involvement has not done it any justice.

The root of the problem is the whole region is divided between religion and domination. But mainly religion, Iraq was at 1 time occupied by a Mongol Khanate, 1 of Genghis Khan's grandson he wiped out many Muslims because he was of Christian. And so that waged a war with another Mongol Khanate who controlled the region next to it who was also a grandson of the Great Khan this one was of Muslim faith which pissed him off, this also lead to the downfall of the great Mongol Khan dominance, the 2 cousins decided to wage war upon eachother rather than live up to their grandfathers dream, any way thats another topic.

The whole region has more work than meets the eye, they have serious issues that may never be resolved. #1 religion, people are divided over who's god is better, and this goes way back dureing the Mongol dominations.
MILTON
QUOTE(Dark_Goku @ Aug 20 2007, 10:35 PM) [snapback]3150456[/snapback]
HAHAHAHAHA yes I do, d!ck sucking twit.

Over 60% of Americans belong in the Lower Class of Society or also known as the poverty side of American Society. This was because of Reagonomics making the Rich richer and the Poor poorer. Almost all people that live in the United States know this to be true.


Ohh great another demented high school revolutionary who gets his information from the guy who sells him weed...lol ...listen kid, until you have sources which = proof, you are just talking $hit out of your mouth, and this is obviously what you are doing....you seriously have no fu-king idea of what your talking about, the poorest bastard in this country has more in his trailer park than the richest bastard from wherever your from... only 12% of Americans are below the "AMERICAN" poverty line..while 17% of Britons are below the "BRITISH" poverty line...

grab a damn book will ya

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8...overty_line.png
House
There are ALWAYS war crimes in war. Soilder rape young girls, beat up young men, rape young men. massacre entire villages. It has always gone on and always will. Every army does it from the earliest Chinese/Romans to present day Americans. The only question is how widespread is it.

The Nazis and Japanese took it to a new level and the Japanese made raping an organized endeavor.

Now having said that, the US army is far better in this area than the Taliban, the Shiites, Sunnis and literally everyone else in that part of the world.

I think that it was a mistake to go in, and we should get out as soon as we can. But when we do, those YouTube images will look like a birthday party. The locals will butcher each other with glee in wholesale numbers.
baal
QUOTE(liaa @ Aug 19 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]3148167[/snapback]
I know, thinks for sharing. Poor kids, I hate that.

This person absolutely nailed my perception of the west too for years.


You are part of the West. How are you going to change things?
Armageddon
What ever it is....nobody deserve to be shot or killed esp the innocent one.......what they conduct over there is basicly inhumane.Infact all these pupil involve in those shootng should be penalize....regardless race,ethnic & religion.
michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(Dark_Goku @ Aug 20 2007, 10:35 PM) [snapback]3150456[/snapback]
HAHAHAHAHA yes I do, d!ck sucking twit.

Over 60% of Americans belong in the Lower Class of Society or also known as the poverty side of American Society. This was because of Reagonomics making the Rich richer and the Poor poorer. Almost all people that live in the United States know this to be true.

No, they don't. Many people still think Reagan was a great president, in spite of liberals thinking otherwise. But, I think your analysis of American society is innaccurate.

What the first video portrays is a couple of late-teens early twenties men messing with little kids. And, the whole situation with water does seem absurd. Was it water they were running for? How thirsty can they be by running after the truck like that? And, why the fu-k is there a video camera going anyways? Where do they get the camera from???

The military doesn't like the idea of soldiers posting incriminating pictures on the internet and I imagine that after the prison abuse scandal, the military tries to keep control over who has a camera and who doesn't.

Also, the second video isn't representative of the West in general, but an instance where extremely stressed out British soldiers just snap on little brats who throw rocks at them. Those kids didn't want them to beat them with a stick, they probably should've avoided throwing rocks at those soldiers. At least they didn't do as the British soldiers did to American colonists during the Revolutionary War (check the Boston Massacre).

The case with a little girl being raped isn't reflective of US military but of those men (assuming it's true). This doesn't somehow mean that the US is evil or corrupt, but that we have sociopathic men in our military. At least they're punished for raping women. American soldiers also rape Western women and American women as well. Yet, we in Western society don't view it as an attack on us by the US military, but as individual men committing sex crimes against women.
michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(House @ Aug 27 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]3167734[/snapback]
There are ALWAYS war crimes in war. Soilder rape young girls, beat up young men, rape young men. massacre entire villages. It has always gone on and always will. Every army does it from the earliest Chinese/Romans to present day Americans. The only question is how widespread is it.

The Nazis and Japanese took it to a new level and the Japanese made raping an organized endeavor.

Now having said that, the US army is far better in this area than the Taliban, the Shiites, Sunnis and literally everyone else in that part of the world.

I think that it was a mistake to go in, and we should get out as soon as we can. But when we do, those YouTube images will look like a birthday party. The locals will butcher each other with glee in wholesale numbers.

Yeah. I pretty much agree with what you said. People are people, and so you will have people who commit crimes when they think they can get away with it. When comparing whole socieities or militaries, you see how widespread it is, and how those systems are designed. In democratic nations, it is illegal for soldiers to rape people period, regardless of the country being occuppied territory or not. However, Muslim armies do not punish soldiers for rape of enemy civilians. Saddam Hussein didn't care if his troops were raping Kurdish women or shiite women.

At least the violence made by the US military isn't as severe as the violence between sectarian factions within Iraq towards each other. An Iraqi has more to worry from Iraqis or foreign "freedom fighters" than they do from Americans or Brits or Aussies or Europeans. Yet, they will probably rationalize civilian casualties made by Muslim terrorists to some how be the fault of the democratic nations.

It's not logical, but it makes sense to them somehow. I think that this problem would be alleviated slightly if the occupiers spoke Arabic. When Lebanon was occuppied by Syria, they protested peacefully instead of using violence. Perhaps, its because the soldiers could talk to the common people of Lebanon and rationalize with them? As oppossed to Americans who don't know the language and appear as savages with high-tech weapons. Maybe if the people could hold conversations with eachother, they'd get along better, much like how integration solved most racism in the United States.
Nebuchadrezzar2
QUOTE
Also, the second video isn't representative of the West in general, but an instance where extremely stressed out British soldiers just snap on little brats who throw rocks at them.


So I guess any foreign combatant can kill or beat the $hit of Iraqi civilians, just because they are extremely stressed? Does that mean that Iraqi soldiers can enter any nation, beat the $hit out of some people, and then blame it on stress? Too bad that those guys didn't throw something deadly against the Brits instead, managing to kill every single British soldier in that area. It would have been better.


QUOTE
Those kids didn't want them to beat them with a stick, they probably should've avoided throwing rocks at those soldiers. At least they didn't do as the British soldiers did to American colonists during the Revolutionary War (check the Boston Massacre).

The case with a little girl being raped isn't reflective of US military but of those men (assuming it's true). This doesn't somehow mean that the US is evil or corrupt, but that we have sociopathic men in our military. At least they're punished for raping women. American soldiers also rape Western women and American women as well. Yet, we in Western society don't view it as an attack on us by the US military, but as individual men committing sex crimes against women.


This is exactly one of the reasons why Iraqi's don't want foreigners in the fu-king country and dislike and hate them more and more each day that pass by. Simply saying "we have sociopathic men" isn't going to help. The fact is that it already happened, and the reason why it's happened is because of presence of foreign soldiers in a country that never EVER threatened the U.S.
Nebuchadrezzar2
QUOTE
Yeah. I pretty much agree with what you said. People are people, and so you will have people who commit crimes when they think they can get away with it. When comparing whole socieities or militaries, you see how widespread it is, and how those systems are designed. In democratic nations, it is illegal for soldiers to rape people period, regardless of the country being occuppied territory or not. However, Muslim armies do not punish soldiers for rape of enemy civilians. Saddam Hussein didn't care if his troops were raping Kurdish women or shiite women.


And you consider Saddam Hussein's army to be a muslim army? biggrin.gif If a person in a muslim country raped a woman thenthen the chance of him living (if he's found guilty), instead of having his body cut into 1000 pieces is close to zero. Again, people are using Saddam Hussein's example of violent acts to make their acts to look more justifiable. It's the "but hey, he did it too so we can do it too"

QUOTE
At least the violence made by the US military isn't as severe as the violence between sectarian factions within Iraq towards each other. An Iraqi has more to worry from Iraqis or foreign "freedom fighters" than they do from Americans or Brits or Aussies or Europeans. Yet, they will probably rationalize civilian casualties made by Muslim terrorists to some how be the fault of the democratic nations.


An Iraqi has as much to worry about $hitty dirty U.S foreigners as insane Iraqis. There is no difference. You can get killed by another Iraqi, or a foreign muslim, for simply being in the wrong sect or living in the wrong place. The same way you can instantly get killed by fu-king airstrikes called in by the U.S military, or raids done whenever they feel like, or shooting down women driving a car, or firing indiscrimnately against civilians, using ridiclous excuses to justify it. The U.S and any other foreigner in Iraq are terrorists, so are Iraqi's who kill other Iraqis. Civilian casualties made by muslim terrorists are, indirectly, the fault of democratic nations. The U.S is the reason for the damn killing. Had the U.S not invaded, then Iraq would look 1000 times better then what it looks now (despite it being pretty bad under Saddam's rule). Tell me, did civil war exist prior to the invasion? Did a Sunni have to worry about getting killed by Shia? Did a Shia have to worry about getting killed by Sunnis? Did muslim terrorists (both foreigners and non-foreigners) blow themselves up, killing a good amount civilians? No, none of this happend. But it suddenly happened as soon as you "liberated" Iraq. Now tell me, what might be the reason for it? Hmm..it can't possibly be because of the invasion, done by a western democratic nation? nah, not at all. All those things happened before the war, right?


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It's not logical, but it makes sense to them somehow.


It's perfectly logical, the U.S is the reason why the suicide bombings and sectarian killings appeared. The U.S also partly responsible for the already existing tensions between sects prior to the war. You'll probably find this to be unbelievable.


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I think that this problem would be alleviated slightly if the occupiers spoke Arabic. When Lebanon was occuppied by Syria, they protested peacefully instead of using violence. Perhaps, its because the soldiers could talk to the common people of Lebanon and rationalize with them? As oppossed to Americans who don't know the language and appear as savages with high-tech weapons. Maybe if the people could hold conversations with eachother, they'd get along better, much like how integration solved most racism in the United States.


Why should they speak arabic? They don't need to speak arabic, since they don't need to be in the freakin' arabic-speaking country in the first place. Conversations and discussions help, but listening to the request of the locals also helps alot too, something the U.S military obviously fail to do.

I wish most of the U.S soldiers a good peaceful life, they are humans like us. However, when they step into Iraqi soil I wish them nothing but death, and this isn't because they are American, as I wish the death of any foreign combatant (in other words coalition forces AND foreign muslim terrorists). Hopefully they will keep dying as long as they decide to remain there, until they decide to pull out.
TheHero
QUOTE
The same way you can instantly get killed by fu-king airstrikes called in by the U.S military, or raids done whenever they feel like, or shooting down women driving a car, or firing indiscrimnately against civilians, using ridiclous excuses to justify it.


If the USA was the enemy of Israel then Muslims wouldn't care about airstrikes. Let's say the USA bombed Israeli civilians or Pro-Israel traitors. Would the Arabs care? No, they'd be overjoyed icon_neutral.gif

Iraqis aren't pacifists. Nobody is. They hate America because America likes Israel.

However, you have to seperate Iraq from Afghanistan. The Afghan war exists because of Al-Queda. The Iraq war exists because of oil. However, Iraqis are Muslims and hate Israel also (well, obviously).


QUOTE
I wish most of the U.S soldiers a good peaceful life, they are humans like us. However, when they step into Iraqi soil I wish them nothing but death, and this isn't because they are American, as I wish the death of any foreign combatant (in other words coalition forces AND foreign muslim terrorists). Hopefully they will keep dying as long as they decide to remain there, until they decide to pull out.


I really hope Al Queda believes that. I don't want WMD's exploded in America. However, Bin Laden doesn't share your "You leave us alone and we'll leave you alone" philosophy. Unlike the Viet Cong they want American blood on American soil. But that might be neo-con propoganda.
Nebuchadrezzar2
QUOTE(TheHero @ Nov 2 2007, 09:03 PM) [snapback]3296173[/snapback]
If the USA was the enemy of Israel then Muslims wouldn't care about airstrikes. Let's say the USA bombed Israeli civilians or Pro-Israel traitors. Would the Arabs care? No, they'd be overjoyed icon_neutral.gif

Iraqis aren't pacifists. Nobody is. They hate America because America likes Israel.

Muslims have fought imperalistic wars for thousands of years. They didn't care about peace then. Not when they're beating the war drums.


Since when the hell did you speak for Iraqi's? Many westerners, particulary americans, tend to speak alot for Iraqis since they started their imperealistical war against them (I'm not refering to you in this case, but people in general), it just makes me wonder how they manage to speak for other people. No, Iraqi's don't hate America simply because America likes Israel, although you can add that one as one of the many reason Iraqi's dislike America. In case if you haven't noticed there are quite good a amount of Christians in Iraq, who hate Israel more then what some Muslims do, so faith isn't the only thing that plays an important role here. Also, what if Arabs would care or not, or be overjoyed or not? That's not the problem, the problem is that people get killed, and other people's happy or sad view of those people getting killed is nothing more then $hit that doesn't make the situation good (or bad) at all. Who would these muslims be? Every single one? Muslims from a certain nation? From what I can see certain muslim places were the Ottomans own b!tch, only to be replaced later as the western worlds new b!tch, Iraq being one of them.
Nebuchadrezzar2
QUOTE(TheHero @ Nov 2 2007, 09:03 PM) [snapback]3296173[/snapback]
If the USA was the enemy of Israel then Muslims wouldn't care about airstrikes. Let's say the USA bombed Israeli civilians or Pro-Israel traitors. Would the Arabs care? No, they'd be overjoyed icon_neutral.gif

Iraqis aren't pacifists. Nobody is. They hate America because America likes Israel.

However, you have to seperate Iraq from Afghanistan. The Afghan war exists because of Al-Queda. The Iraq war exists because of oil. However, Iraqis are Muslims and hate Israel also (well, obviously).
I really hope Al Queda believes that. I don't want WMD's exploded in America. However, Bin Laden doesn't share your "You leave us alone and we'll leave you alone" philosophy. Unlike the Viet Cong they want American blood on American soil. But that might be neo-con propoganda.


In case if you haven't noticed Osama Bin Laden consider 60+ % of Iraq's population to be heretics. Yes, I'm clearly talking about the Shia muslims here. Zarqawi even called for non-Shia muslims to fight against them, since they consider Shia to be unpure heretics, those guys have even gone so far to refer to the Shia muslim sect as a jewish-christian conspiracy against Islam, how the hell they came to that conclusion.... This is also one of the reason why foreign terrorists in Iraq choose Shia muslims as their first target, rather then coalition forces who they claim to be "fighting".

The bad thing is that the U.S war brought them to a country, which could be considered as gold treasure to them (full of Shia muslims), and now Iraqi Shia muslims partly have to go through the $hit brought by the U.S.

I would not want WMD's explode in America either, as I see no reason for anyone to do that, although if it were to happen I wouldn't actually give a $hit about it at all, but I don't see any good outcome from it, which is why it would be rather pointless.
TheHero
QUOTE(Nebuchadrezzar2 @ Nov 2 2007, 09:45 PM) [snapback]3296240[/snapback]
Since when the hell did you speak for Iraqi's? Many westerners, particulary americans, tend to speak alot for Iraqis since they started their imperealistical war against them (I'm not refering to you in this case, but people in general), it just makes me wonder how they manage to speak for other people. No, Iraqi's don't hate America simply because America likes Israel, although you can add that one as one of the many reason Iraqi's dislike America. In case if you haven't noticed there are quite good a amount of Christians in Iraq, who hate Israel more then what some Muslims do, so faith isn't the only thing that plays an important role here. Also, what if Arabs would care or not, or be overjoyed or not? That's not the problem, the problem is that people get killed, and other people's happy or sad view of those people getting killed is nothing more then $hit that doesn't make the situation good (or bad) at all. Who would these muslims be? Every single one? Muslims from a certain nation? From what I can see certain muslim places were the Ottomans own b!tch, only to be replaced later as the western worlds new b!tch, Iraq being one of them.



QUOTE
Since when the hell did you speak for Iraqi's? Many westerners, particulary americans, tend to speak alot for Iraqis since they started their imperealistical war against them (I'm not refering to you in this case, but people in general),


I don't like the Iraq war. I agree with you totally. However, I don't believe most people are hippies or Amish people. That was my point.


QUOTE
That's not the problem, the problem is that people get killed, and other people's happy or sad view of those people getting killed is nothing more then $hit that doesn't make the situation good (or bad) at all.


The worst hate comes from people with dead family members. Well who can blame them?

QUOTE
From what I can see certain muslim places were the Ottomans own b!tch, only to be replaced later as the western worlds new b!tch, Iraq being one of them.


I think Muslims hate non-Muslim invaders far worse the Ottomans.
TheHero
QUOTE(Nebuchadrezzar2 @ Nov 2 2007, 09:51 PM) [snapback]3296250[/snapback]
In case if you haven't noticed Osama Bin Laden consider 60+ % of Iraq's population to be heretics. Yes, I'm clearly talking about the Shia muslims here. Zarqawi even called for non-Shia muslims to fight against them, since they consider Shia to be unpure heretics, those guys have even gone so far to refer to the Shia muslim sect as a jewish-christian conspiracy against Islam, how the hell they came to that conclusion.... This is also one of the reason why foreign terrorists in Iraq choose Shia muslims as their first target, rather then coalition forces who they claim to be "fighting".

The bad thing is that the U.S war brought them to a country, which could be considered as gold treasure to them (full of Shia muslims), and now Iraqi Shia muslims partly have to go through the $hit brought by the U.S.

I would not want WMD's explode in America either, as I see no reason for anyone to do that, although if it were to happen I wouldn't actually give a $hit about it at all, but I don't see any good outcome from it, which is why it would be rather pointless.


QUOTE
In case if you haven't noticed Osama Bin Laden consider 60+ % of Iraq's population to be heretics. Yes, I'm clearly talking about the Shia muslims here. Zarqawi even called for non-Shia muslims to fight against them, since they consider Shia to be unpure heretics, those guys have even gone so far to refer to the Shia muslim sect as a jewish-christian conspiracy against Islam, how the hell they came to that conclusion.... This is also one of the reason why foreign terrorists in Iraq choose Shia muslims as their first target, rather then coalition forces who they claim to be "fighting".


Still, the USA is enemy #1

QUOTE
The bad thing is that the U.S war brought them to a country, which could be considered as gold treasure to them (full of Shia muslims), and now Iraqi Shia muslims partly have to go through the $hit brought by the U.S.


Right. It has also lead to the rise of Iran. Bush wants the dollar to be the worldwide currency. Was it worth it Mr. Bush??

QUOTE
although if it were to happen I wouldn't actually give a $hit about it at all,


The sad truth is that many people won't care. What goes around comes around. However, I hope it doesn't for my people's sake. I hope a day comes when all this hate is gone.

QUOTE
but I don't see any good outcome from it, which is why it would be rather pointless


If they nuked 10 or 20 cities it might. However, the middle east will get MAD (mutually assured destruction). The whole middle east will be nuked.
Of course, Al Queda terrorists don't care. They believe Allah will save them. At least Allah will give them (the terrorists) a great afterlife but he might not help the middle east.

Note: When I say good I mean "useful for Al Queda". No, I don't think nuking cities is good.
Nebuchadrezzar2
QUOTE(TheHero @ Nov 2 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]3296271[/snapback]
I don't like the Iraq war. I agree with you totally. However, I don't believe most people are hippies or Amish people. That was my point.
The worst hate comes from people with dead family members. Well who can blame them?
I think Muslims hate non-Muslim invaders far worse the Ottomans.


No one can really blame them, and they have all reasons to get angry. And if they want to take revenge then they can by all means do so, as long as they take revenge on the right person.

It really depends on which muslim you ask. Trust me, there are arab muslims who hate arab muslims far more then Israel or U.S.
Nebuchadrezzar2
QUOTE(TheHero @ Nov 2 2007, 10:14 PM) [snapback]3296291[/snapback]
Still, the USA is enemy #1
Right. It has also lead to the rise of Iran. Bush wants the dollar to be the worldwide currency. Was it worth it Mr. Bush??
The sad truth is that many people won't care. What goes around comes around. However, I hope it doesn't for my people's sake. I hope a day comes when all this hate is gone.
If they nuked 10 or 20 cities it might. However, the middle east will get MAD (mutually assured destruction). The whole middle east will be nuked.
Of course, Al Queda terrorists don't care. They believe Allah will save them. At least Allah will give them (the terrorists) a great afterlife but he might not help the middle east.

Note: When I say good I mean "useful for Al Queda". No, I don't think nuking cities is good.


USA isn't really enemy no.1, but the U.S government is what most people in the ME consider as no.1 enemy, although I'm pretty sure there are people over there who hate the government and the people.

It wasn't worth it now was it? Saddam started to be portrayed as the new Hitler once he decided to change currency from dollar to euro. Look at the result (Iraq) of that.

Well I'm talking about a good outcome in a civilized way. Killing thousands of innoncent people isn't going to help with one fu-king thing. Just like killing those 9-11 victims didn't help with anything at all. The thing is that you have two nations were the majority actually hate Al Qa'eda. Iraq being one. Even with the Shia Muslims excluded you have Christians and many Sunni muslims hating them. Then Iran, which is against Al-Qa'eda and that's pretty logical because you don't run with open arms to someone who wants to kill you. If the U.S could actually someday create a government with sane members then there's alot of good advantage to be taken of through Iran & Iraq's view on Al-Qa'eda. But then I'm not a person who believe that "Al-Qa'eda is a terrorist group that wants to do nothing except killing anyone who don't agree with them". I think there's alot more bull$hit about yet to be known about this group but let's leave it at that.

Caught Al-Qa'eda members also appeared on Iraqi TV being interviewed. Some of them said they were told that if they kill at least ONE Shia muslim then they will enter paradise to eat dinner with Prophet Muhammed. And I'm not one bit surprised about the killing part.
kown_chma
Hate people trying to justify what went on in those videos, maybe if yr daughter/sister was gang raped, shot and burn then you will know what it feels like?

And to those who say, oh noo those are normal, it happens everytime in war. STFU, who started the fu-king war??

TheHero
QUOTE
But then I'm not a person who believe that "Al-Qa'eda is a terrorist group that wants to do nothing except killing anyone who don't agree with them". I think there's alot more bull$hit about yet to be known about this group but let's leave it at that.


The Bush administration wants to scare people (to justify more war). But the borders should watched just in case. But Bin Laden did say American civilians are targets. Just how far Laden is willing to go is the question. Does he consider a US city a good target or a waste of time??

There's several websites talking about an American Hiroshima. However, one website is conservative so is biased. CBS news reported about American Hiroshima. They quoted several government people talking about nukes. But it could be a scare tactic. These people are probably fooled by phony intellegence. I mean if Iraq WMD's were a joke then maybe Al Queda nukes are. It's all designed to further the neo-con war plan.
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