... do you even care?
My guess is most Muslim Indonesians don't even know such Schools exist
C'mon, Ramadhan is coming pretty soon from now, so let's talk about Islam in Indonesia for a change

I don't think there's any shi'ite Indonesian muslim, because I have never heard of them. Indonesia is solidly sunni.

What's the different between Shi'ah and Sunni? I heard that Muhammadyah and NU are different school.

Honestly there is only one Islam.. the one that the was revealed by Allah through angel Jibril to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)...so as Muslims we should be holding fast to the Quran and Sunnah/hadiths (legal ways of the prophet)....

and the Hadiths should be authentic...because we can not make stuff up or lie about our religion.

and Allah knows best






i heard Muhammadyah and NU b4.. but i dont know what da diff is.

I think the diff is only on matters of jurisprudence, NU follow mostly Imam Shafi'i while Muhammadiyah follow Imam Hanafi...I think

Well, "Sunni" is short for Ahlu Sunnah wal Jama'ah or "people of the sunnah and the community". If you insist that there is only one Islam, then you imply that Shia is not Islam.

I guessed correct, didn't I? I think most Muslim Indonesians are oblivious to the schools existence.
There's no Shia follower in Indonesia? Somehow it's hard for me to believe. Okay, Sunni and Shia aside, how many school are there? I think I've ever heard about 4 schools or something, depending on which Imam do you follow....

^ I'm Sunni follower of Shafii school.



NU more emphasis on native indonesian culture a.k.a kejawen while Muhammadiyah more like Malaysia ways, I think.

islam hadhari is my school to all malaysians.

^ Aku tak mengaku. aku islam jer

I dunno... I thought Muhammadiyah is a modernist organization, aiming to follow the rules and rituals like the ones in Saudi Arabia, while NU declares themselves as Ahlu Sunnah wal Jama'ah, and yes, I think they support traditionalist point of view....

But I was asking about Islam's Schools, not Indonesia's organizations!

you're asking 2 different things. sects are different to schools of thought.

the shi'a has deviated from the ahl sunna wal jammaah. i know of one shi'ite from indonesia.

the majority of indonesia follows the shafe'i school of thought. i use to be a shafe'i, but now i am hanafi

I disagree if you generalize the Shi'a as a sect...in Shi'ism it self there are many divisions (some of which can be considered a sect)

oh...on topic: Shafi'i mostly but flexible with the others

OH for my Muslim Indonesian bro/sis, may ya'll have the best Ramadhan this year! Are ya'll planning to use Sha'ban to prepare for Ramadhan?

I miss Ramadhan in Indo, haven't been home for Ramadhan/lebaran for 3 yrs now ...(except for the cheesy sinetrons :p)

What do Indonesian Mulims think of Sufism?

ok some shi'ites are outside the fold of islam

amin and u too



from what i know of it i like it, but i dont know much about it

many of the people who started the initial spread of Islam in Indonesia were sufis

Yeah Indonesian Muslims seems alot more mystical than most Middle Eastern Muslims (with the exception of Middle Eastern sufis). I think they are more interesting too.

from what i know there are only 2 major types of muslims around the world.

the majority one is the one found in Southeast Asia and Middle East(except Iraq)...

from what i know these 2 groups are not of really huge differences. both follow the same basics of Islam. both go Mecca for Haj, both pray, fast etc..

except for extremism, terrorists etc.. those are totally out!!!!

Ramadhan coming!! yippie!!

Ever heard about Kang Jalal(uddin Rahmad) from Bandung? He is a shiite with his "jamaah".

I follow Sufism, and my family is Shia.

Hmmm.... I'm muslim sunni, and somewhat apply NU's way in traditional religious rituals, but tend to be more in tune with sufism, rather than mainstream Islam, or any puritant view of Islam (especially the strict Wahabbism ).
And I really don't like people who forced their interpretation of religion to others. Monopolize the "truth" as theirs own, etc. Try coercively to "save" the soul of others from eternal damnation (puhleeze, keep your faith for yourself).
Wisdom is from God, and God is benevolent, nobody can claim that the love of God is solely theirs and their sect only, while others are condemned to hell.


Oh yeah about NU-Muhammadiyah things. In Indonesia majority follow Sunni mainstream, Shiite do present in Indonesia although really small and insignificant. The division of Sunni-Shiite IMO is purely politic generated dispute, about Ali the successor of the prophet Muhammad. Other Shiite tradition developed later; faith, beliefs, rituals are merely to impose their claim as "true" successor of prophet and Islam.

In Indonesia Shiite sect is present, although not significant in numbers of follower. But the division of Islam school in Indonesia is clearly shown between Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah. Both follow Sunni majority.

NU is majority in Indonesia. NU is Traditionalist, which means they used traditional method and reverance to their Ulama or Kiyai in the matter of religions. The unique thing is the term traditionalist doesn't means traditional puritan Islam in the middleeast. NU already infused and incorporated traditional rituals that not belongs to Islam in Arab. Which is already incorporated native tradition and rituals into Islam. So clearly NU shown native Javanese influence and incorporate it in to Islam. The example is "Selametan", is traditional religious occasions involving feast of food and reading of Quran (pengajian), this "selametan" can be incorporated in to Nujuh Bulanan (Pre-Maternal ceremony, originally a Hindu tradition), Sunatan (circumcisions), Blessing the new house, Newborns, Tahlilan, 40-harian (a reciting Quran ceremony to blessed the deceased person), or any thanks giving to God occassions (syukuran). This traditions probably already exist in pre-Islamic Indonesia (Hindu-Buddhist or even Animism traditions).

On the other hand Muhammadiyah is the movement to establishd "pure" Islam. Islam that free from "corrupted" non-Islamic influence and tradition. Soo Muhammadiyah never held "selametan" since they view this as merely waste of money or energy, or simply not the way prophet did. Muhammadiyah discard traditional value and traditions, and solely rely on Quran and Hadith and try to move into puritan Islam. "Muhammadiyah also tends to applied more scientific approach (as long it's not against Quran). However this "modernist" movement in the same time held more "sterile" Islam.

The disputes between those two especially aroud petty issues of rituals, disputes may about simple short formula of prayer during Shalat Shubhuh, NU followers that felt offended, if Muhammadiyah followers refused to take part in communal selametan, and even went far by saying that selametan or any traditional things are un-Islamic, too much or "bid'ah". Or the dispute may arose around the determinations of the first day of Ramadhan. NU tends to use traditional astronomic way to determined the new moon by observing "Hilal" or the new crescent moon. While Muhammadiyah tends to use "modern" mathematical way to calculate the Islamic calendars.

That's just what I know so far.....

Why seperate in groups and sects? Abraham named us Muslims, isn't that sufficient?

It's for knowledge's sake only. Even in Indonesia, the government only recognizes one Islam

Since the fall of the last caliphate there is no central authority for muslims anymore.

What Im saying is that with all these names it seems like that is the identity over being a Muslim. Quran speaks of no factions. Matter of fact, it speaks against it. "Dont break up your religion into sects." I think people end up following people in the end, which creates sects. But o well, thats how it is in all religions.

If i were muslim, i would be a Ishmaili. They have their Imam called the Aga Khan and they are possibly the most modern school of Islam nowadays, totally at ease with the East and the West and with globalization.

I wonder if there are Ishmailis in Indonesia?

The Caliphate institution existed in Turkey right until 1920s when the successor to the Ottoman Empire - the Turkish government abolished the institution of the Caliphate and implemented secularism as their political ideology. It is unclear if the Turks as the successor to the Ottoman Empire have the legitimate right to abolish the Caliphate. I suspect the Caliphate can be resurrected anytime. It might already be so resurrected in the mountains of Afghanistan, who knows?

Caliphate means High Rulers for Muslims. Since back then Ottoman was very powerful empire, most of them regards Ottoman as Caliphate for the Muslims. Since Osama and Taliban not well received by Muslims community worldwide and didn't have any power, I think it's high unlikely to see Caliphate coming from those country.

I hope Islam wouldnt be like other religion where there are different sects. For example in Christianity, i was told Protestants cant go to a Catholic church and some other many sectors in Christianity.

@Betong, i think if u read the history of Islam's evolution, the Caliphate tends to be set in a country where there is a strong army to defend the spread of Islam throughout the lands. As such, even if u think that Bin Laden and Co. do not have universal appeal in the muslim world, they are building an army to spread the faith... while the Arab royalties are letting others (US army) do their dirty fighting for them..

@singapak, Islam is already broken into different sects by the time the Prophet (pbuh) passed away into the camp of Sunnis and S.hites, right from the beginning in 600AD. How do u expect that the faith will reunite as one when one sect keeps on persecuting the other sects? The Catholics persecuted the Protestants in the past. Sunnis have been persecuting other sects such as sufis, ishmailies, fatimids, yasassins etc etc for centuries... now the S.hites are in the persecution game too.

It is a fact that inevitably any religious faith will begin to break into different strands of philosophical differences, that is the law of nature. Everything will change, including something you have always been taught as eternal such as God and religious faith, this will change over the centuries as humans and their societies evolve and change.

Sunni.
Ahlus Sunnah Wal-Jamaah, mazhab Hadhari Shafie.

have you not wondered why Iran & Iraq went to war?

and you are a Muslim? I thought you are part Hawaiian, part Korean American guy?

Ishmailis is one of the Shiite sects, which has deviated far from Islam. Some followers of sects within Shiite such as Druze no longer consider themselves muslim. I know one Arab Druze guy from Israel who told me that he is not a muslim, but a Druze. Other Shiite sects such as the Alawite celebrates Christmas and Easter. The President of Syria and all his top generals are from this sect. If I am not mistaken, Shiite, Ahmahdiah, and Wahabi (yes, the official sect of Saudi Arabia) and all other sects that are considered deviated from Islam are banned in Malaysia.

Just curious. Are you a muslim? Judging from ability to use Malaysian Malay accent eventhough you never been to Malaysia, you must live pretty close to Malaysian border or a place where you can get clear Malaysian TV reception.

why do you consider the wahabbis a sect?

Islam, Christianity and Judaism come from the same strand, doesn't it? In the evolution of Islam throughout the Middle East, surely some clans have retained their christian or perhaps pagan celebrations of easter and christmas..

Did u know that the Druze muslims are the guards of the Masjid al-Aqsa in jerusalem? To this day, muslims are forbidden entry by the Israelis to this mosque. Some say that the Druze muslims are collaborators with the Israelis.

This mosque is also known as Har HaBayit (the Temple Mount) to Jews and Christians. I don't think many know this but....



I think yesterday was the Mi'raj wasn't it? Joko was right! Yesterday was the night where the Prophet journeyed on a horse in a single night from Mecca to Jerusalem. He only ascended to heaven and there's an etching on the rock in Al-Aqsa mosque depicting the ascension. I read that it was on this ascension to heaven that the Prophet cut the number of daily prayers down to just 5 times. If the Prophet didn't make that decree, muslims would be praying non-stop daily!!





Wahabi is banned from Malaysia? Why? What is the predominant school of Islam in Malaysia???

The only different was Judaism didn't acknowledge Jesus and Muhammad while Christian didn't acknowlegde Muhammad. Islam said Christian and Judaism already deviant from original teaching.
Is it true. As my understanding they have their own mosque..

Even five times daily, many Muslims didn't pray !!!! You know in Syria there was sect of Cristian who also pray just like Muslims did. But they pray seven times a day.

If Malaysia didn't banned Wahabi, Malaysia will turned in Saudi state and most Malaysian didn't like it...

Aiyoo.. I told you elsewhere you got the dates mixed up. The Isra' & Mi'raj commemmoration wasn't yesterday --this year it was on Aug 11.

"Yesterday" you are referring to probably is the (second) Nuzulul Qur'an/Nuzul al-Qur'an commemmoration. Nuzulul Qur'an was the first time Qur'an verses brought down from Heaven and the commemmoration is observed on the 17th night of the month Ramadan, so here it was on Sep 29. Yesterday, Oct 9, was the commemmoration of the first time any Qur'an verses was revealed to the Prophet (pbuh), which occured on the 27th night of the month Ramadan.

Ok, thanks for the clarification... i get it now!

What u call the Nuzul al-Qur'an commemmoration, they also call it the Laylat al-Qadr here, it happens on the night of the 8-9 October.



Can u tell me how do muslims commemorate the Isra' & Mi'raj on Aug 11? I have read that the Isra & Mi'raj is one of the most important pillar for muslims as it distinguishes Palestine from all other Islamic lands and made it the inheritance for all muslims.

Well, Wahabbi is not really a sect. I would rather categorize them as a movement. They don't call themselves Wahabbi anyway. They preferred to be called the Salafis.

Druze are not considered as muslim in Israel. As such, they are being inducted in the army which is forbidden for muslim Arabs. Another exception is the muslim Bedouins. I am not so sure why the Bedouins are required to join the army but this is probably because they don't have loyalty to any Arab country, an also because of their desert expertise.

=================

http://www.freewebtown.com/shiaofahlulbayt...rue%20Image.htm

This is one of the websites about the danger of Wahabi. Even though this website is produced by the Shiahs (Wahabbi's enemy # 1), not Sunnis, the content will tell similar stories. There are many more websites about Wahabbis produced by muslims from all kind of schools.

Origins of Wahabi thought
The Wahabi sect has two basic tenets, a declared tenet and a hidden one. The declared tenet is commitment to divine unity and opposition to idolatry and paganism. But as we shall see later, this commitment is not confirmed by the actual history of the Wahabi.

The hidden tenet is sowing the seeds of schism, discord, conflict and war among Muslims to serve the goals of foreign domination. This is the real purpose, which the Wahabia has sought to achieve since its inception and until the present day. This means that the declared objective or tenet served only to impress followers and enlist their efforts in achieving the real objective.

Undoubtedly the slogan of reviving the concept of divine unity and opposing idolatry has its attraction, and followers can be expected to rally around it with enthusiasm but without being aware that it is only a camouflage for the real hidden purpose.

Experts on the history of the Wahabia confirm that the movement was originally established upon an order by the British colonial administration. The list of authoritative sources supporting this conclusion is long and includes Saint John Philpy in The History of Najd, Khairi Hamad in The Pillars of Colonialism, Hamaion Himayati in Al-Wahabi Criticism and Analysis, and finally, Haiem Wiseman, the first prime minister of the Jewish entity in Palestine in his memoirs.


===========

Malaysia adhere to Sunni version of Islam. Sadly, Wahabi is so widespread in Malaysia right now, especially among educated Malays, and especially among muftis in the state of Perlis. The Wahabbi rejects all major Sunni schools, consider their followers as heretics. They only adhere to Al Quran and Hadith, which is okay to me, but they took it to the extreme. The Wahabbis (and the Saud) were supported by the British in their war against the Hashemite. You know British won't support anybody unless they are part of scheme. Google this in the internet and you will know why.

Very interesting! Do u mean that there are muslim bedouins in Israel recruited into the Israeli Army? Or u meant the bedouins are recruited to the Saudi armies?

Bedouins are nomadic and they would have warrior traditions in their ranks, surely they'll make good conventional fighters in the deserts.




Wow, interesting!

I had read that the first patriarch of the House of Saud was from the Wahhabi tribe and that he had been recruited by the British colonial administration to subdue the Arab revolt for independence, and as a reward, his family was given the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the guardianship of Mecca/Medina by the Brits while the rest of the colonial territories like Iraq, Jordan etc. were divided as spoils amongst his sons.



Does Malaysia support the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan? How do they view the King of Jordan? The Brits were very good in ruling and dividing the local chiefdoms in the territories they controlled, but I think Wahabi school of thought nowadays have nothing to do with the British.

The Wahabi school of today has taken a life of its own where the House of Saud are seeking to perpetuate their legitimacy to roost over Mecca & Medina when they no longer set an example to the muslim world of their divine right to be guardians of the holy cities. IMHO, the Sauds are a case of waiting for someone in the muslim world to say The Emperor has No Clothes!

Yes, the Bedouins are required to serve in the Israeli army eventhough they are muslims. So far, they've been loyal to the Israeli army, and have been participating in surpressing the Palestinians. They are as trigger happy as other Israeli soldiers. An Israeli Bedouin soldier was the one who shot dead a British guy who were in Gaza for humanitarian reason. The whole thing was taped and it caused a lot of uproar in Britain.

We, Malaysian don't really understand what's going on in the Arab world. However, any event in the area would greatly influence Malaysian muslims. There are 3 events that slowly radicalized Muslims in Malaysia, who normally don't really care whether they are Sunnis, Shiites or Wahabis, as long as they look like they are fighting for Islam.
1. Israel - Palestinian conflict (hating everything Jewish)
2. Iranian Revolution (women started to wear tudung, within a short period after the revolution, eventhough a couple years prior they were still wearing mini skirt)
3. Russian invasion of Afghanistan (this is a truly Wahabi influenced war, and with muslim volunteers from all over the world, including Malaysia, some Malay muslims have started to become radicalize, to the extend of involving in terrorism).

and now, we have another fiasco in Iraq. Anyway, I believe, 50 years from now, the Iraqis will thank USA for bringing democracy to their country, while other Arab countries will still under the grip of dictators.

i have a question. Does Allah = Jehovah,

if so, why do Muslim say Allah and not Jehovah?

You raise a good point.

I know that for the Israeli Arabs, service in the IDF is optional, but as you said, that might not be the case for the specific Bedouins.



I highly doubt that.

The U.S will be remembered as nothing more than yet another colonialist, imperialistic, barbaric western power, and not much else.

More incompetent than most, in fact.




"Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God".

An Arabic Christian refers to God as Allah, just as an Arabic Moslem does.

Arabic speaking Jews used to, but not so much anymore.

my point being, The god of the Mulsims are the gods of the jews, or god of Abraham, The God of Abraham is the Jewish God, worship by jews for thousands of years before Arabs(Muslims) ever even heard of such a thing.

lets just admit that the Jews are the Choosen ppl of Allah, as all the holly scipts that precede Islam say (old and new testiment), Islam, which is merely a result of Arabs who wanted to follow in the footsteps of the Christians who's religion started to gain ground in Arab lands,

just as Christians know their belief's are derived from the Jew's or Hebrews, Muslims also must acknowledge all their believes come from the Christian school, as well as the Jewish School, the person that delivered that message of christians to the Arabs was Mohammid, he merely just gave it another name,

in the old testiment, a text acknowledge by Muslims as a holly book, names Allah, So why not call Allah by his true name, which is Jehovah?

If MY don't really unnerstand what's going on in the Arab world, why should the events in the middle east concern Malaysian muslims greatly? Why won't Malaysia look up to its brethrens in Southeast Asia which share more cultural affinity and immediacy in their economic front? e.g. the Khmers (Cham), the Indian (pre-islamic), the chinese, thais, the Indonesians etc...

"Islam will be divided into 73 'golongan', only 1 will enter the heaven..." it's hadits of Mohammad S.A.W.

it's the duty for each of us to find the 'one' and be the 'one'...

and of course the source will Alquran and Assunnah

peace......

I realise that Indonesia is basically a Muslim country, and most people are Muslims, but how serious do Muslims take Islam in their daily lives?

(1) Do you believe the the Shadadah and the 5 Pillars of Islam?

(2) I assume that most of you accept the Sharia Laws for your family lives?

(3) You accept that apostates deserve the death penalty.

(4) Hence most Muslims will accept that the Koran is the Word of Allah and that the Prophet Mohammad was his final messenger. Thus the word of Allah is immutable and cannot be altered?

(5) Do you also believe that blasphemers of the Koran must receive the death penalty?

If you believe in all the above, I assume you are an orthodox Muslim? i.e. believing in the Koran, and the Hadiths, and the Islamic history and Sharia Law.

I just would like the above confirmed by someone who knows. Thank you!