I was just wondering if anyone has any sites with articles or information on Vietnamese people in France. I know theres a huge community there ranging from 250,000-300,000 and is one of the oldest Vietnamese communities outside of Vietnam. But i've never seen anything or read much about them. I know i have a cousin and a great uncle there and thats about it

Heres just a few links i found

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_French

Vietnamese refugees to France (in french so cant understand what they're saying >_<)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdrX-H1ZOHk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEeQxB8Szts

Well, the Vietnamese in France are highly successful, highly regarded and heavily intermarried. Give it a couple more generations, and most of the Nguyens there will end up with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Genetically, with each generation of intermarriage the Vietnamese is diluted by half. If intermarriages exceed the rate of intramarriages, then after 4th or 5th generation, the number of Vietnamese would decrease. This is a reason why France wants a complete integration of their ethnic minorities. The French society does not encourage ethnic enclaves.

Vietnamese communities in France have two categories: those that are highly professional and intellectual who have long established in France and are pro-Hanoi, and those that came as refugees who tends to be less educated and pro-Saigon, pretty much like those in the US. The intellectuals are scientists and professors at French universities, and the newcomers usually run shops to make a living.

From personal experiences, they are quite intergrated into French society. I have a very large extended family there and most are really successful, they're either doctors, politicians, lawyers or professors...and a lot of the younger generation have French partners instead of Vietnamese...I don't know about other families but in mine, they seem to be very well off compared to my family members here in the U.S. and Canada...not that we are not doing good in North America, but compared to them, they are a lot more succesful.

Of course the Vietnamese French tends to be well off, the community there is the oldest of all Vietnamese enclaves around the world.

They should be, they are the original Nguỵ

Pháp Nguỵ to be exact. I've also read that the descendants of Bảo Đại are very well off. When you're a lackey you should be well off and successful.

This criticism is misplaced. The original Vietnamese community started with Vietnamese workers and soldiers that France imported in WWI - This community was always under the surveillance of the French authorities during the French War, given not only its ties to the homeland but its ties to the French Communists and the French Socialists who very strongly opposed the French war after 1949-1950. A second major wave of Vietnamese was made up of Vietnamese students who came after 1954 and who chose to settle in France - France was extremely hospitable to Vietnamese students, and certainly wanted to hold on to them. The overwhelming majority of the Vietnamese community in France opposed the American war. Calling people traitors recklessly is not an acceptable habit.

Academic sources I read say differently. Not all but a good portion of this community were originally French sympathizers and lackeys that supported France holding it's iron grip on French Indochina. Sure there were a few that were against French colonialism, but they sure didn't make up the majority, more like the minority. Actually I stand by my word that a good portion were traitorous dogs, not all.

I respect you because you are an educated man, and maybe I shouldn't label them as all lackeys, but how about a portion of them were? Just like I can't say every Vietnamese Catholic was a French dog, but many of them were.

Where is Johannj? He's a good representation of them that thinks French colonialism was good for Vietnam. At least the RVN loyalists and crazies today, many of them didn't like the French, although they tend to like the American involvement. For the French Viets, they thought French colonialism was good, but American involvement bad. How about these two groups can go fuk themselves? Since they're both s-hit heads.

During Vietnam War, most people in Europe were against the war including the Vietnamese French. I read that when Saigon fell in 1975, a lot of Viet Kieu in France were actually cheering. The Viet communities in France are generally didn't have a lot of baggage like those in the US.

Just for the record, I am no fan of the French, but let me give my 2 cents in favor of these folk after 1980. Some of the Vietnamese in France go way back to WWI, where they fought on the Allies side and decided to stay in France after the war; a lot of these folk don't even speak Vietnamese anymore and they look French but have Viet lastname. Some of them were the first to go back to Vietnam after the "Vietnam War" to help what they could. I really think that they help Hanoi in many ways.

The French have always hated the Americans and whatever they did. And this attitude probably rubbed off on the Viet-French.
You mention they were against the Vietnam/American war, which I already know, there is even a clip of it on Youtube, when Saigon fell and they were cheering. But what about the French Indochina war ('46-54)? They were actually pro French. They actually thought that French colonialism was good for Vietnam. Many not all thought this way. I didn't say all, so don't jump on my a-ss.

BTW the Vietnamese community in France is very old and established, so of course they won't have a lot of baggage compare to the Vietnamese in the USA, which came in '75.

Where is Johannj and other Viet French to defend French colonialism? They actually thought it was good for Vietnam!

On a side note, I hate American involvement in Vietnam just as much as French colonialism.

I am actually pro-French. I am just not pro-French colonialists. Again, most of the Vietnamese in France during the French War were workers and soldiers who had been imported into France during WWI and just before WWII. They had no reason to like French colonialism and they didn't. Don't confuse these people with the tiny Bao Dai elite who made their homes in France during the French war.

Check out the Korean-Chinese AF WAR. I think this whole place might go down.

No one says that French colonialism is good. I enjoy certain aspects of the French culture, but of course I thought that it was a great day when Vietnam beat France at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. There were some who were so francophiles that they thought French colonialism was good, but those were few and far between.

I think being Phap(French)-Nguy is better than being My(US)-Nguy. We caught Phap-Nguy at DBP, but President HCM freed them without punishment. Too bad My-Nguy didn't have the same outcome as they had their free education at the re-education camp.

Modern France = Land of Cowards

I have a Relative in Marseille. He can out-do the Algerians..............need I say more ?

I have always respected you blacklight and your honesty in many topics. From the sources I did read years ago, mentioned that a "good portion" of this community were pro-French colonialism during the first Indochina war, it didn't give the exact numbers, but I interpreted this "good portion" as probably being considerably more than those Viets that were anti-French colonialism. It touch upon the subject that they didn't want to be seen as being disloyal to their new country. But whatever the numbers were I still stand by my statement that there were Pro colonialists in that community. I guess we will have to disagree on how much of it was there.

We are the only people to have defeated its colonial overlord on the battlefield. If the French were indeed cowards, then there is no merit to our achievement. The fact is, they were not cowards, and they gave us a hell of a time. We still whacked them.

As for your comment about your relative in Marseilles outdoing the Algerians, I don't know what to make of it. Are you relying on a very negative, sometimes vicious French stereotype of the Algerians, or are you implying something else? I have bumped into a few Algerians in this country (the US), and they look like hard working, capable and honorable people to me - And they have a sweet spot for the Vietnamese. I am one of those who think that the only good French colonialists are dead French French colonialists, but I did state to some of these Algerians that I was apalled and horrified at the cruelty of the Algerian insurgents.

Ok, they are not all Cowards........................51% are Cowards--->National Symbol is a chicken (rooster).

Vietnam fought the other 49% .

French society looked down on the Algerians.

Still does

It seems the Vietnamese in France are doing quite well. Someone please tell me if I am wrong.

From my observation it seems Vietnamese people in France, especially nguoi Bac Ky, aims for bourgeois status in the French society. That's why there are so many Vietnamese doctors, lawyers, dentists, and professors in France. However, nguoi Nam don't usually care much for such "status," they aim to make dough, which is way they usually open small/medium size businesses all over France. The Southern Vietnamese are much like the Viet Kieus in USA. They will settle for a small business, make $10,000+ a month, and that would do enough justice. No need for such professional job title - well, maybe for their offsprings that's not the case.

I have one example from my own experience. I only know of 1 Vietnamese family from France who migrated to USA. They were originally elite immigrants from Northern Vietnam, migrated to France, were successful there, but for unknown reason migrated to USA. In USA, the family opened 5 upscale, classy Vietnamese restaurants. By upscale/classy I mean fancy 5 stars to the top type restaurants. The family are of course millionaires, possibly multi-millionaires. The owners have 6 or so children. All are professional doctors, lawyers, and dentists. They are the types who enjoys "status" in society. They golf, drive very expensive cars, have numerous houses up in the hills and in prominent areas, travel around the world, and watch plays, among other fancy things. They are more devoted to quality over quantity. By that, I mean they do everything to perfection.

Anyway, if that one family examplifies Viets who comes from France, then I do not doubt there are plenty more in France judging by how successful Viets are over there.

hmm my great uncle wasn't Bac Ky. But he certainly was filthy rich. They immigrated to France in the 1950s and the last time we heard from them was when my family were in a refugee camp in the 80s. He gave us some money and told us not to go to France since it wasn't a very good place for poor refugees to live. I still wonder what life would've been like there

France has very high unemployment rate, especially among the young people. This is thought to be due to France ultra-socialist labor laws. Employers cannot fire employees at will. Layoff notices must be given like half a year in advance. Once unemployed, French people can collect unemployment benefit for a year or more. As a result, companies don't like to hire young people for fear that they cannot easily get rid of them if they don't work out.

On the other hand, in terms of opportunities, no country can beat America. But Europeans sometimes think that Americans sell their souls to unbridled capitalism with no social safety net when they are in old age or when they face job losses. I think neither extreme is good.

My mother also told me once not to go to France. I never regretted my mother's advice. So I think your uncle was right on.

Does anyone know if Vietnamese do or do not have a billionare in France?

Well just thought i would dig up this thread. Found some Vietnamese/French people off google lol.
I some of Viet people in france will probably end up looking fully white after one or two more generations of intermarriages. Heres some varied looks...


Some lady running for some political part in France.



Some guy in the music industry.



Business director



Polytech staff

some more random photos

more...

and last but not least

Here's the hierarchy of choice of resettlement countries: USA, Australia, Canada, Germany, France, Japan.

Do any of these French-Vietnamese still speak Vietnamese?
Soon all the Vietnamese in France will just end up looking full french with french last names.

Damn look at those mongrels and $hit yo! The white man trying to ruin the g@@k race's gene and $hit!

visit www.g@@kfront.org or www.angryasianmen.com to fight against this social injustice and $hit.

Yes this dude looks like a hippy I bet he would love to have a jam session. Music is the right path for him lol. Just kidding. He does not even look vietnamese.

As of now my one of my friend is a Frenchman.He's only been over here for like a year.Dude is hella cool. He came over to France in 1981 and tells me the Vietnamese community embraces other Vietnamese from other countries with open arms. My friend said he help many American Vietnamese when they got lost and even brought them back to his house for dinner on many occasions. With that kind hospitality, I thought he was crazy. I said u do that in Oakland, u might get robbed by the people you're trying to help. But he said Vietnamese people in France are very close-knit, so when my friend gets married in France I'm going to have a blast over there.

Some of these Vietnamese-French girls got some beautiful honey looking skin. .

Wow Viets in France love to mix
All the seasoning and spicies stir up and blend

I`m quite xenophobic myself , very nationalist

Đoàn quân Việt Nam đi
Chung lòng cứu quốc
Bước chân dồn vang trên đường gập ghềnh xa
Cờ in máu chiến thắng mang hồn nước,
Súng ngoài xa chen khúc quân hành ca.
Đường vinh quang xây xác quân thù,
Thắng gian lao cùng nhau lập chiến khu.
Vì nhân dân chiến đấu không ngừng,
Tiến mau ra sa trường,
Tiến lên, cùng tiến lên.
Nước non Việt Nam ta vững bền.

You didn't need to introduce the Vietnamese community that way, your manicheism is hopeless, even less when it is hardly true.

The early wave of Vietnamese immigration in landed in France along with the French troops after the Geneve's accords, those were mostly soldiers' wife and children, colonial officers and rich urban traders who feared the communists.

The second wave was made of Southerners holding French citizenship Diem regime demanded to leave unless they give up their French citizenship when acquiring Vietnamese citizeship.

The third wave was made of students, they were allowed to study in France after Diem passed away. They were divided, some were pro-communist and anti Americans, while other were fiercely anti-communist. In 1975, after the commie took over SGN, lots of them went back to Vietnam hopefully, but most of them bitterly returned to France after having faced with suspicion and tyrany.

The boat people and people who benefitted from family reunification policies , formed the 4th wave. Most of the boat people who seeked asylum in France were educated, and chose France because of their affinity for French culture, although French society is less open and French economy was on the decay.

Nowadays, the Vietnamese is well rooted in the France, but community spirit is not developped outside religious organisations. In the absence of residential concentration area and political reprentation, the Vietnames spirit and consciouness is fading away among the late generation.

French society and mainstream culture doesn't brainwash the french to frown upon asians like the media does in america. The media makes a huge difference when it comes to influencing people. Sort of like how people view our president as an idiot but yet can't even recite the 1st or 2nd amendment. He's evil... but no idiot I assure you.

Well these Bac Ky you guys speak of, I am also a Bac Ky with family in France. The first thing they said when they saw my sister's picture album was "WOW! All your friends are asian. Why?" They also said that while there are a lot of vietnamese around their area, there's really no incentive to exclusively have asian friends. My guess is that the media there doesn't skew our image like they do in the US and hence the asians there feel no real need to create their own community.

And yes all of my cousins are married to French women/men and speak not a single word of vietnamese. Even my uncle stammers when he speaks vietnamese and he lived in vietnam all of his teen life.

And for the record, one of the main reasons why America went into Vietnam was b/c of the French. During the cold war, America and Russia were fighting for European allies and what better way to win the French then to try to restore Vietnam back to France through INDIRECT control. Indirect as in how America controls Iraq today... Iraq government may be comprised of their own people but America calls all the shots. Seriously, think about what incentives America had to go into Vietnam and majority of your answers will come from the cold war.

If anyone wants to debate with me, don't go responding with idiotic posts such as "b/c of money" or "to fight communism." Back up your statements with concrete detail and I will kill you with true facts.

Yer i saw from someones post on here few months back some franco-viet family and I thought damn! Gotta get me sum of them honeys in porn ASAP!

There's quite a bit of info, but you're right, it's mostly in French or Vietnamese. I used to live in France, myself, and in the 11th district or "arrondissement" as they say in French is where Chinatown is. Although many will call it "Indochinois Ville" or Indochinatown, because the majority living there are Vietnamese and even folks there who call themselves Chinese are Chinese-Vietnamese, born in Vietnam, but of Chinese descent. A good chunk of the Vietnamese community in France are Eurasians, a melange of French and Vietnamese parentage, many of which were born in Vietnam and shunned from Vietnamese society, but ironically when resettling in their fatherland end up living among other Vietnamese. Perhaps this is why many people who have heard about French-Vietnamese intercultural history are disappointed when they do visit Vietnam today and find that there is no Vietnamese-French Eurasian or "metiste" community there. That's because they've all moved over to France unlike the Spanish-Filippino Eurasians that remained in the Philippines. Depending how you look at it,some say the Vietnamese Eurasians might be luckier than the Filippino Eurasians because they were permitted entrance into their fatherland. But on the other hand, Spanish-Filippino Eurasians despite being denied the chance to come live in Spain mostly, were not looked down upon in Filippino society like those in Vietnam and are among the elitists sector of the Philippines, even today.

The vast majority of the community does speak vietnamese. If we get mixed with french people,it's because they don't look down at us.On the contrary ,they highly regard us as trustworthy or hard worker .The Education Departement has statistics that show that the viet kids are doing very well in schools.The percentage of Viet students entering the french elite schools (engineering or business schools ) represents many folds of their national representavity.
Last november,there was a first forum in Paris gathering Vietnamese businesses from all the world.
Here is the URL www.ForumVietnam.fr for the poster who initiates the thread .It 's in french ,not sure you can get the english version

damn they are mixing it well with the frenchies. some dont even look asian anymore

In real,you can , most of the times , spot any mixed person vith Vietnamese descent.

The children of these people completely look white. I found this Vandjour family from the web. The dad is half viet. The mom is white. Their children look white. However, as a clan, they still seem to maintain some viet tradition. Well at least in the food...

These are the kids. The boy is completely white but the girl looks like she has some viet in her



They still eat with chopsticks including the white kids at family gatherings




They still enjoy chả giò with nước mắm. Tho everybody does nowadays so I'm not sure if that counts.



Below is the website to this particular family
http://www.vandjour.com/

The Vandjour family came from a little know group of "repatriated" half Viets at the end of the French era (1950s). They lived at this settlement called Le CAFI Sainte Livrade near the south of france. They had it pretty rough. Much was those of us in the US. But as a community, they still seem to enjoy and maintain many viet traditions. It's heart warming.

Áo dài competition



Some sort of a community temple



More chopsticks and bún chả giò at community gatherings



More photos of them here
http://www.rapatries-vietnam.org/photos-rapatries-cafi.php


The main website is here
http://www.rapatries-vietnam.org/

Man. I can't resist posting pictures of a hot dude that used to live at CAFI. Was wondering what he looks like now. Probably got fat and bald.



The guy on the left. Not the hoodlum with the cigarette

[quote name='Sideley' date='Feb 28 2008, 03:40 PM' post='3531676']
You didn't need to introduce the Vietnamese community that way, your manicheism is hopeless, even less when it is hardly true.

The early wave of Vietnamese immigration in landed in France along with the French troops after the Geneve's accords, those were mostly soldiers' wife and children, colonial officers and rich urban traders who feared the communists.

The second wave was made of Southerners holding French citizenship Diem regime demanded to leave unless they give up their French citizenship when acquiring Vietnamese citizeship.

The third wave was made of students, they were allowed to study in France after Diem passed away. They were divided, some were pro-communist and anti Americans, while other were fiercely anti-communist. In 1975, after the commie took over SGN, lots of them went back to Vietnam hopefully, but most of them bitterly returned to France after having faced with suspicion and tyrany.

The boat people and people who benefitted from family reunification policies , formed the 4th wave. Most of the boat people who seeked asylum in France were educated, and chose France because of their affinity for French culture, although French society is less open and French economy was on the decay.

Nowadays, the Vietnamese is well rooted in the France, but community spirit is not developped outside religious organisations. In the absence of residential concentration area and political reprentation, the Vietnames spirit and consciouness is fading away among the late generation.

Bravo! I applaud your insightful post. It's so refreshing that there are intelligient Vietnamese out there that are willing to take the time and effort to articulately express their opinions on such an important subject. Having spent part of my childhood in France, even I wasn't aware of the history of Vietnamese French resettlement in such great detail like you presented. I just would like to point out in reference to the timline "waves" of Vietnamese immigration to France. You're absolutely correct with the order, but somewhere between the 4th and 5th waves, there was another significant Vietnamese immigration that took place. This was around 1978; a time when supposedly the fighting had stopped, however for the people left behind from the former South Vietnam were still being ravaged by their merciless conquerers. The Viet Cong new regime in the South conducted in manners of tyranny just like how a cat gloats after capturing its prey as they discover how much more satisfying it is to continually torture rather than to kill and eat its prey immediately. This humiliation that the VC had set out for the people in the South stripped many of their dignity; For instance: first, in accordance to communist theology, they confiscated belongings from each and everyone in order to "fairly" redistribute the wealth. They had no qualms about using brute force to do such as their guerillas would invade people's houses, ransacking and terrorizing and looted anything they wanted while there was nothing anyone could do. At some point, these guerillas didn't bother w/ the wealth redistribution charade any longer and continued with their stealing shamelessly. To add salt to injury, the humiliation furthered with the changing of the city's name from Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City. These arrogant VC's had never even been there but had the nerve to re-name this city after a man that also had never stepped foot there; all just to get under everyone's skin w/ the message: "So there! From now on, we're gonna call this bla bla bla, change the names of all your streets, etc... strip you of all your clothes and material possesions... And just because... WE CAN!"
The VC's mission to totally humiliate what's left of the South entailed many more various activities and schemes. In their words, this was all for the "Liberation of South Vietnam". And among their acts of malice was a crusade of "ethnic cleansing" which they defined as a way of ridding signs of the past evil foreign invaders and taking back Vietnam. This justified their confiscating of all your household appliances, cars, etc. that were foreign made. It went so far as to apply to those with foreign blood, or mixed-heritage.
Right around the beginning of 1978, the VC 's newly formed government sent their men to meet up w/ reps of foreign goverments of countries linked to Vietnam (mainly only France, India -- there weren't many willing to have talks with Vietnam's goverment as most other countries didn't want much to do with Vietnam then); the objective was to reach a decision as to where and when Vietnam could ship off their undesired population of mixed-breeds to their fatherlands to do away with all traces of the evil foreign presence. After these talks, the VC then sent their guerillas out to hunt down all who had foreign blood, i.e. Eurasians mixed with French and those mixed with Indian to send them all back to their Fatherlands. They couldn't do that to the half-Chinese, because there were too many and judging by looks, who could tell? And as much as they had also wanted gone , the Amerasians, or the U.S. war children like me, left behind from the recent war couldn't be shipped off anywhere, because the US gov't by then had severed all ties with Vietnam. So they gathered all who were part-French to be deported to France and those who were part-Indian to be sent to India. Don't get me wrong, many were delighted to be sent to France away from the miserable conditions under this new regime in Vietnam. Even some lighter skinned half-Indians lied about their heritage so that they would end up in France rather than impoverished India. But along with the deportation, came more humiliation and looting. I'm speaking from personal experience here. Once the Viet Cong's guerillas had tracked you down as one of these "mixed-breeds" to be deported, your family and you would then be subjected to repeated visits as they would hound you on a regular basis until your day of departure; each time to squander away any money or valuables you might have. The level of corruption during this time from the Viet Cong was unbearable, as these guerillas who were sent out to enforce socialist or communist ideology, where equality "thematically" was key and far from "Evil" westerners' materialistic capitalism. Yet these Viet Cong guerillas were in fact conjuring up bribes by threats all for their own selfish material gains. If one didn't comply with these bribes, coincidentally anything from their paperwork i.e. their physical exams could go wrong or the worst, tossed! Then as the day of deportation arrives, it is unannounced!The VC guerillas come to your home unexpectedly in the middle of the night giving you no time to pack or prepare, they shove you into a "xe lam" like bulldogs all in just a split second. What little valuables you might have left in your house that these guerillas hadn't managed to squander so far, all had to be left behind as your family and you were being bulldozed by these thugs right out of your house. No explanations were given to us except hat we had to leave right at that second.
Their reason for rushing you is all too clear. In a few hours, my family and I exited Vietnam permanently on a French naval ship to Kuala Lumpur. We would later join roughly 20, 000 other half-Viet/ half-French deportees and their families in a French island together; i.e. paperwork processing, inoculations, etc. before enterring the mainland France. Safe, far away from the Viet Cong tyrants, all awaiting on the island were thankful. But still no one could forget what rotten thieves, those Viet Cong s.o.b.'s were, as they had stolen from us repeatedly with those dreaded visits and if that weren't enough, had to rob us one last time ulitimately taking our house as they shipped us off.
That was the wave of Vietnamese immigration to France that should have been mentioned somewhere between waves #4 and #5. The exact figures are unknown, but I'm guessing it was roughly 30,000 in total cases of part-Viet/ part-French Eurasians "repatriated". This wave of immigration back in 1978 has been referred to as an act of "repatriation", but I prefer the term "deportation". Like in my family's case, all those that were removed from their homes during this time (albeit not a totally a bad thing considering Vietnam's turmoil then) were indeed "deportated" as they were sent to a faraway, foreign land, despite it being their "fatherland". Their entire lives until that point were spent in Vietnam, and despite their mixed heritage, that to them was home.