Geographically, Japan was one of the most isolated countries on earth and one of the best protected countries from foreign invasions, yet it was still one of the most violent and warlike nations/cultures in ancient times, why is that?

You should take a geography class or at least learn the meaning of the world "Resources".

I thought Japan was embarrassingly weak in ancient times, and it wasn't until they got a hold of western weaponry (in the late 19th century) that they actually became a threat to their neighbors.

The relative isolation meant that no side could politically through allience with an outside forcve gain an upper hand. The balance of power was so tight that local leaders thought that fighting was a good, if not the best option

Japan was blessed when it came to protection from outside aggression however it was cursed because it was still a small island nation with very little resources and since most wars are fought for resources, it developed into a warlike culture; pure irony at its finest.

Japanese warfare/war culture parallels medievil Europe. The samurai is basically the equivalent of a knight. Japan was often not centralized like the other confucian states. Warlords were constantly fighting each other. Likewise, the European states, often fiefdoms, dukedoms, principalities, city-states and whatnot, were constantly fighting each other.

Japan wasn't weak by any means, they just weren't that strong. A perception due to the fact that they got from their WWII exploits, which are actually overrated.

Their bushido culture evolved from confucianism. This is a fact. I suspected this right when I first heard of it only to later read it from a Yale prof . Ironically it arose due during a lengthy golden age of peace & prosperity, i.e. the Tokugawa shogunate. During this long era of peace, the samurai had nothing to do but sit around and concoct noble and/or bizarre code of conduct, such as the need to perfume their head gear before combat because in the case where they might lose getting decapitated, their victorious opponent will invariably pick up their severed heads and pleasantly encounter a pleasant smell. Upon which the victor would no doubt say: "Wow, that guy smells really nice! It's a shame he had to die!"

Prior to this age, retreat was no big deal. It did not mean loss of face as it so famously/notoriously did in WWII. Again, much of the Japanese nationalistic propaganda the world saw during WWII arose from a few key events both big and small, (two mongol invasions/kamikaze winds, the 47 ronin, Russo-Japanese war, etc.,) and all those bushido codes from the peaceful Tokugawa period.

I suspect some other key aspects about bushido, but won't go any further... Such as why Japanese warlords fought for the title of Shogun and not of Emperor. To me this obviously harks back to the fact that Japan was started by Koreans ~2300 years ago. Oops, I've gone too far...

Believe it or not, much of the Nazi propaganda myths, codes, protocols, and so on were modeled after the early 1900 Japanese nationalism with all of its arcane bushido codes. Apparently, the Nazi propagandists just scratched out "samurai" and replaced it with "teutonic knight" in the Bushido 101 manuals they got their hands on. And voilà, they got Mein Kempf.

Japanese were good at fighting each other--rather than outsiders. They developed great tactics against each others'. Their tradional martial arts are among the most effective. But their samurai tactics clearly did not work during the the two disastorous Imjin Wars.

Their initial stunning success during colonization of Korea, Manchuria, WWII in general, were due to the simple fact they had an enormous, indeed insurmountable technological advantage over other Asian countries.

They also had stunning success during the Russo-Japanese War, but then again the Japanese commander Admiral Heihachiro Togo paid enormous homage to the Korean Admiral Yi Sun-sin from the Imjin Wars as being he inspiration, saying that Yi was the greatest admiral of all time. It was Yi who single handedly defeated the Japanese navy against astronomical odds during the two Imjin invasions.

Agreed which is why I laugh when people say that Japan was blessed geographically, sure you didn't have to worry too much about outside aggression but that's still not gonna stop Samurai warlords from collecting your head.

Relation between Korea and Japan is much deeper than we think. Not too mention both share common ancestors yet neither accept this concept. According to modern sicentific research indicates both Korea & japan share almost identical cultural bounderies like food, music, ppl, history etc.. this is because both nations were so close each other in geographically and in terms of human & animal migration & habitats.

Oh please. Tell that to the entire lot of anti-koreans over at 2channel--hell, just go check out Youtube. Out of all foreigners, Japanese hate koreans the most.

What can I say, Japan being the most technologically advanced nation in the Asia-Pacific region sure attracts a lot of envy, even amongst the most ethnocentric of koreans.

Haha. That would have actually made sense if all of your past four posts that you've made on the boards so far weren't devoted to bashing Koreans. If you really are Vietnamese, then that statement just screams irony, considering how you are giving Korea, much more technologically advanced than Vietnam, so much attention, which more or less describes how much you "envy" them.

That's wonderful but my comment was about Japanese geography, not the relationship between Koreans and Japanese.

You're right. Technically, I am not Vietnamese--I'm an American of Vietnamese background. Envy? No. Respect? More than koreans, that's for sure.

I always find it hilarious whenever I see a Korean and a Viet duel it out. The reason? These two countries have virtually no relationship with each other historically to hold any real animosity unlike say China/Japan, Japan/Korea, China/Korea, China/Vietnam. It's interesting to see what each side has to say.

You mean Vietnamese-American.

"Respect"? So, my Vietnamese-American friend, what do the Vietnamese have to make them more respectable than Koreans?

That Viet guy is that same troll, who about a week ago masqueraded as a Chinese nationalist(SundayFun) and started a flame war in K-chat. He gets banned all the time yet keeps coming back like a cancer. That troll however is probably Vietnamese or Japanese. His earliest account admitted to his Vietnamese heritage and this was before his trolling days.

Personally I find a lot(not all) of Vietnamese people on AF unpleasant and illogical so I wouldnt be surprised if the troll was indeed Vietnamese.

There isn't anything necessarily warlike in Japanese culture. It's not like Bushido promoted the invasion of foreign countries for resources. The cause for Japanese Imperialism is the same cause of imperialism by Western Powers.

Personally I find a lot(not all) of Korean people on AF inconsiderate and high on pride so I wouldnt be surprised if they attract more trolls.

LOL What an idiot. My only advice to you is, take some history classes in college.

Militarism more often than not leads to warlike conduct. However, prior to industrializing, Japanese were mostly concerned with fighting each other (with the notable exception of the two Imjin Wars. But then again, the Mongol/Yuan did invade them twice too; The Japanese also annexed Okinawa--sort of another exception). In fact, Western scholars say that preindustrial Japan was "irrelevant" in that it exerted no influence whatsoever outside its borders.

Once they industrialized, then, as Titanium alluded to, they naturally needed resources since they are so utterly resource poor. Also, as you assert, the Japanese were eagerly jumping on that European/American colonialism bandwagon.

I'm not sure what precisely the American position on a potential rearming of Japan is--mostly because I've never looked into it, but the nightmare scenario is that Japan with a population of 130 million (same as Russia), though resource poor, but cash rich and possessing a truly vast industrial capacity, could easily revert to their bad old ways. They would not only no longer be a submissive ally with a warm & welcoming naval base for American carrier fleets, but they might actually become aggressive competitors with their own blue water navy. A reamed Japan would automatically be a nuclear Japan, which would absolutely cause a nuclear chain reaction, pun intended, of other countries going nuclear throughout East Asia and S.E. Asia. Neither the US, nor China would want this--purely from a selfish interest.

As for the Japanese population, they are mostly pacificists right now, hell bent on conquering the world economically via Toyota, Sony, etc. We should always remember imperial Japan was by definition, not a liberal democracy like it is now. No duh. But then again, the US is a democracy, and so is France and the UK, and they are still neck deep in neo-imperialistic shaningans.

What I love about Japan is that when they isolated themselves, they did a lot of unique things..sweet

Its just the few nationalists that keep doin that. You can find those type of people in the other sections as well.

True and yet not true. The Japanese were as dependent on Chinese technology as Vietnam or Korea were. Japanese art however was in some respects the most advanced--but this is relatively speaking, in Asia. The first novel was written by a Japanese woman. Japanese wood block paintings with their their highly stylized, indeed fully mature, miminalist sensibilities played a pivotal role in changing the direction of European art. Japanese architecture, landscaping, haiku poetry, etc., were also fully mature.

But again, Japanese achievements were only marginally more advanced than that of Korea and Vietnam. China and India were far more developed, far more influential. In fact, the pre-industrial Japanese nationalists used to delusionally claim that China, India and Japan were the three great cultures of Asia. No, it was only China and India.

Point taken.

Oh, really? Mind to show us proof? Or maybe you being delusional is the real problem? I'm sorry you find some Viet members on here unpleasant or illogical; victimize yourself all you want, but don't attack the entire Viet race for it. How do you know for sure he is Vietnamese? Because his screename has "Viet" in it? Not enough evidence for me. Why would someone make countless troll accounts confidently stating their "ethnicity" for everyone to see, as if to adversite it. Quite pathetic approach, IMO. These trolls are supposedly representing their so-called ethnicity, but in reality they cannot troll/argue for jack. I don't think they are Vietnamese, honestly.

Remember Vietavenger, the Vietnames troll you claim to have hundreds of accounts attacking Koreans? His first thread was to attack Koreans for eating DOGS! I mean, c'mon now, either he is a stupid Viet or more likely not Viet at all. And how are Viets going to attack Koreans by calling them g@@ks? Such an act of a hypocrite to me.

Maybe I should create an account with "Korean" attached to the screenname and go to Chinese chat to stir up hatred? See where I am going? Just b/c some trolls here choose to attach Vietnamese names on their sn purposely to troll does not mean they are Vietnamese. Heck, they could be Cambodians for all I care. Cambodians enjoy attacking Viets and making us look bad, even to the point where they have to disguise themselves as Viets to do so. Check Viet Chat frequently to see what I mean. When it comes to defending their so-called ethnicity they either 1) come off being weak or 2) BACK OFF. Doesn't quite add up to me, really, and as a Vietnamese I am sorry you took their childish attacks so literally. Victimize yourself all you want.

All I can say to you is, look at the true Viet posters on here to determine our true colors. Do not conclude recently made accounts with "Viet" names attached to them as true Vietnamese voices.

When I'm talking about warring for resources, I'm not necessarily only referring to post modernization Japan even though there's an obvious connection. Japan was always a small, isolated, resource poor nation hence even in ancient times, the inhabitants could do no more than bicker and squabble amongst each other. After all the main reason anyone fights for war is to attain resources. Shogun warlord A wants Shogun Warlord B's resources therefore they war while Shogun Warlord C goes after the weakened winner. Hence the root of violence and martial culture in ancient Japan was the same as modern Japan. The only reason Japan didn't go on a rampaging conquest before modern times was simply due to the fact that she wasn't powerful enough to do so. Hideyoshi's organized army is one notable exception but even that was due to western technological influence from the Spanish and Portuguese. In a way, his ambitions was a foreshadowing of what would happen centuries later. Either way Japan was arguably more geographically cursed than blessed if you ask me. The only advantage Japan had was protection from outside aggression but the extreme isolation and lack of resources cons more than made up for the pro.

^ Yes, yes. The fight over land is among the most basic of conflicts. But people don't label you as "violent" unless you attack others, vis-a-vis Imperial & WWII Japan.

True the rest of Asia didn't get to taste Japanese violence until modern times however my point is that the military and warlike culture of Japan was around long before her modernization.

True, but it's also useful to remember that when you're constantly under attack, you unite. When not under attack, you fight each other.


Chomsky says that because the many European ethnicities/kingdoms/empires incessantly fought amongst themselves, this is why they developed so much technology, which ultimately lead to their conquering the world. Jared Diamond says this too in Guns, Germs, and Steel. The Europeans also fought others (the Ottomans, Arabs, and later colonial conquests) which inevitably leads to gaining more and more foreign technology, military tactics, etc.

The Japanese fought mostly each other, and hence developed great tactics against each other. But as I said above, their tactics failed miserably during the two Imjin Wars. The samurai was very well trained, but Japanese tactics were definitely not as sophisticated as Mongol tactics. The Mongols were able to conquer China and so much more. The Japanese hit a brick wall in Korea and never even made it to China, which was their original aim.


Yeah, some 2012 predictions say that Japan will sink into the Ocean.

One of his earlier accounts "Kono" mentioned his Vietnamese nationality. You have no idea who Kono is but I know who he is because he trolled K-chat months before that Avenger guy. He(kono) made a couple of dumb posts on K-chat and got owned so horribly that he made a multiple accounts just to agree with himself. Then he and his multiple accounts got banned and now he trolls K-chat just to get revenge.

I also find it funny that you want proof, you are the same person who who refused to acknowledge all the proof I gave out from military sites that repeatedly showed that Koreas kill ratio against the Vietcong was above 15:1 but whatever, that just shows how insecure some people are towards the truth. This one troll even claimed that the Viet cong had a higher kill ratio then Korea in the Vietnam war, that nearly made me die of laughter. . It even contradicted Viet cong military documents.

Of course I gave out several links and sources of information proving my point, yet ironically your side refused to provide any evidence other then word of mouth and lies. As I said earlier, a lot of Vietnamese posters on AF(not all) are generally unpleasant and illogical. At times they tend to over-react and to further prove my point just look at you. I didnt even mention any Vietnamese posters name nor did I even insult Vietnam the nation yet oddly enough, you took huge offense in my post. I guess that says a lot about your personality.

I dont know how advanced Vietnam was 200 or more years ago, but its generally accepted that Korea was ahead of Japan for most of the last 2200 years. It was only until Japan picked up western technology 150 or so years ago, that Japan finally eclipsed Korea.

Of course there were certain aspects of pre modern japan that was more advanced then pre modern korea. Take swords for instance, Japanese swords were generally sharper then Korean swords. Korea was a peaceful confucian monarchy for most of the last 700 years. Wheras Japan was a brutal and violent warlord controlled domain.

And you are so certain? I do believe VietVo and VietAveng are both the same person (obvious due to his avatar), but I still do not believe they are actually Vietnamese. To prove that they are in fact the other trolls you claim they are, please show everyone proof. Until you do, please do not accuse them and speak as if you are a mod.



Don't worry, I acknowledged your claim, but I found them too delusional and bias, which was why I asked you to provide better source. In addition, your claim denounces your pride in their responsibility in Vietnam, but as a human being I have yet to see what you are proud of. Raping and killing tens of thousands of innocent lives isn't something I would go around bragging to people.



I, too, have thrown some truth in your face, but I feel your insecurity would not allow you to accept the truth. Your contribution to that thread was quite pointless and you were also pwned hard by us Vietnamese.



Look at yourself, the insecure Korean who feels victimized by AF members with "Viet" attached to their screennames. You will not intake the evidences I have thrown in your face, but instead you resort to stick to your assumptions. I have nothing more to say to you. Please do not respond to me for I will just ignore you.

I win

LOL Vietnamese people have credibility to insult others? When was this?

Anyways back to the topic, people here are right. It's ironic that Japanese people with all the geographic protection from the outside world still developed into a warlike and violent culture.

i don't think he's viet, cus viet people eat dogs too

How the hell am I suppose to give out definitive proof on his Vietnamese heritage? I dont know the guy in real life nor am I a mod with access to his IP account. All I know is that his early account admitted to him being a Vietnamese. He could have been lieing for all I care. However, his early posts dealing with Vietnam and his japanophile nature before he started getting banned likely places him as either a Vietnamese japanophile or a plain japanese nationalist who enjoys masquerading as different ethnicities just to stir $hit. Whatever the case, you apparently do not know how to read because I never flat out stated with 100% certainty that he was Vietnamese. I also mentioned that he was likely to be Vietnamese.



Wait a minute, so you acknowledge my claim yet deny it as well? What are you smoking? You cant acknowledge something while denying it at the same time. Its common sense that even a 2nd grader could understand. You want me to provide a better sources? I gave out like 5 sources from credible military sites(and those sites also listed their sources)for you and your buddies to read. I was able to prove my points with factual data. One of my sources even came from Vietnamese military documents written by Vietcong commanders themselves lol. How many sources did you and your delusional Vietcong supporters give? Oh yeah thats right, you gave out zero. . You couldnt find even a tiny bit of information supporting your claim.

You also mentioned that Koreans were responsible for raping and killing tens of thousands of innocent lives. Since when? Do you even know Korean history? If you honestly think ROK troopers were responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of Vietnamese civilians then youre seriously delusional.



Such as? Seriously, I cant recall a single intelligent thing youve said so far.



Wait a minute? Im the insecure one? . I only mentioned that the troll was probably a Vietnamese person and then you completely flip out and write a whole bunch of crap because it hurts your Vietnamese ego. Whos the insecure one now? . Its funny that you claim to have pwned me hard even though I was the winning the debate and had several military sources and evidence to back up my claims. Your side on the other hand was throwing a temper tantrum and couldnt find a single source to back up your claims. Then you requested the mod to close down the topic before I pwned your side any further.



What are you? 10 years old?

I don't know enough to debate which was more advanced between Korea and Japan, but regardless, it was all relatively small.

Vietnam was the least developed of all the Confucians kingdoms--not including China of course, in large part due to the fact that Vietnam didn't regain independence until 939 CE, and because the Vietnamese emperors kept middle level scholars/mandarins from access to the countries texts books, which was not the case in China, Japan and Korea. But again, it was all relatively small. The typical Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean, and Japanese probably had very simililar standards of living, literacy, etc., for most of the last 2000 years. Yet, in 1850, Vietnam still had the highest literacy rate by far.

During the period about 1100-1400, Vietnam and Thailand had among the most advanced ceramics. Then, Japan was buying from Vietnam. Ceramics was a really big deal back then. The technology originally came from China of course. With the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese regained their dominance in ceramics.

None of this is really important, since by Renaissance, the Europeans were far more advanced, which is why they conquered Asia. Japan copied them and hence was safe from European conquest.