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*promo
READ IT FULLY, IF I COULD READ THROUGH THIS SO CAN YOU.

everthing that is right and wrong about the Filipinos ans Philippines. this guy went into it.

QUOTE
Culture: The real culprit
by Teodoro C. Benigno
Philippine Star 11 March 2002




Fifteen years ago, an American chanced upon the Philippines and took critical aim "at a society that had degenerated into a war of every man against every man." I thought James Fallows then was guilty of rank hyperbole, a know-it-all Yankee, jeering and arrogant, who deserved to be lynched. It was Fallows who coined the term "damaged culture" to depict the Philippines, and all the more did we endeavor to burn him at the stake. Now fifteen years after, this quondam roving corespondent of Atlantic Monthly has turned out to be dead right. Right on every count.

We Filipinos indeed have a damaged culture, more damaged even than we think. Thomas Hobbes, the philosopher of stern social discipline, of crowding humankind into a disciplined cage, was certainly describing the Philippines, among others, when he said without order, life was "nasty, brutish and short." Ferdinand Marcos had a sense of smell better than most when he said the Philippines was "sitting on top of a social volcano" and that was more than 30 years ago. Historian O.D. Corpuz (Roots of the Filipino Nation) wrote in 1989 that civil war, revolution or a coup could break out in a matter of years. Any day now?

Benigno (Ninoy) Aquino Jr. in 1983 sought a "rendezvous with history" – meaning a heart-to-heart talk with President Marcos – because as he confided to me in Boston, "along the way, the Philippines can explode into bloody revolution and that will take us back 20 years." At one time, the great nationalist Claro Recto intimated that Philippine democracy was a bad case "of the blind leading the blind." That was long ago. Of course, another foreigner, Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore, predicted our "exuberant democracy" of fiestas and good time would come to no good end.

And now what do we see?

It's every man for himself. A war of one against all. We have a sitting president swinging from extremes of the political pendulum not knowing really what direction to take except possibly the futile and mine-infested road leading to 2004. We have two former presidents, Corazon Aquino and Fidel Ramos, the first brandishing a cigar, the second a rosary. Both are in search of Shangri-La. Both clamor for surcease, peace and unity. And lastly, we have an immediate past president, Joseph E. Estrada, who is now the immediate, visible source of almost all the turbulence shaking the foundations of the republic. He is the Leviathan of Thomas Hobbes.

All the sound and fury is surface temblor. All the creaking and groaning is the behavior of a ship of state tossing, turning and twisting, presumably about to sink in a cultural storm. All that simply points to tectonic plates under the surface shifting before unleashing a big, maddening and devastating earthquake. When almost all of our politicians seek to rescue Estrada from his predicament and forget justice and the rule of law, you espy the rats about to jump from the sinking ship. Or they would seek to preserve the doomed Titanic and off-load Estrada into a safe and pleasure-laden igloo in America. And yet whatever they do, the Titanic will sink.

Well, back to Fallows. In 1994, he wrote his best-selling Looking at the Sun after four years laboring in the cultural vineyards of Asia. The section on the Philippines immediately caught my eye.

He had no hesitation sticking the knife deep in his first sentence: "The least successful-seeming society in East Asia is the Philippines ... a society most heavily shaped in the American image." He continued: "This is the largest country the United States ever attempted to colonize. It is the one part of East Asia to embrace most fully the 'American Way' of two-party elections and an uncontrolled press." Then Fallows pours it on:

"At the end of World War II, Manila prided itself as having been on the winning side, while Tokyo and Seoul tried to size up the conquering Americans. Today Manila is sad in the same way Rangoon is, and for a similar reason. Each has become a melancholy monument to unnecessary, self-induced decline ... It can seem gratuitous and bullying for an American to dwell on the miseries of the Philippines ... Seen from everywhere, the Philippines is troubled and poor. Why pick on people who need help and sympathy? If Americans think things are wrong in the Philippines, why didn't they fix them when they were running the place (the same thing I have drummed in this column — TCB), or in the years when they had leverage over the Marcos family? The Philippines' ethic of delicadeza, the local equivalent to 'saving face,' encourages people to raise unpleasant topics indirectly, or better still, not raise them at all."

I'd like to inform Mr. Fallows that today delicadeza is cracking up like broken Ming. Mr. Estrada's growing army of critics now pounce on him as a matador lunges at a wounded bull. But Fallows is still right. The old pols, the tradpols, the pok-pok pols would liberate Estrada from prison to save a system that has made them rich, powerful beyond their dreams, craven, brazen and corrupt beyond redemption. Three former Senate presidents – Edgardo Angara, Blas Ople, Aquilino Pimentel – and current House Speaker Jose de Venecia are moving heaven and earth to save Estrada. They are looking for a "parliamentary solution" (what kind of animal is that?) to get the nation out of the Estrada quagmire. The truth is, they are lost. The truth is the system is churning lava about to be vomited by the social volcano.

Let's hear Fallows anew: "Except for Burma, the Philippines is the only country in the region where life seems to be moving backward. In the early 1990s Malaysia per capita income was nearly $2,500; Singapore's more than $10,000; Thailand's more than $1,500 and all, of course, were going up. The per capita income in the Philippines has been stagnant at about $700 for several years. By government estimates, roughly two-thirds of the people in the country live below the poverty line, as opposed to about half in the pre-Marcos era."

That was eight years ago. Today, our population has reached 80 million. In 2020 or before, it will surpass 100 million. In 2050, given current birth rates, it could peak at 200 million.

How about education? The Philippines has long banished itself from the Knowledge Society, the only catapult to national progress. Fallows writes: "The education system has run down terribly. The Philippines spends about one eighth as much money per student than Malaysia does. The $15 billion to $20 billion that Marcos creamed off has had a big effect. There's a kind of corruption that just recycles the money, but all this was taken out."

Why? What went wrong?. Where did we Filipinos fail? Was it the predatory regime of the Marcos dictatorship? Was it the fault of "imperialist America" and international bankers? Was it the fault of God who abandoned or forsook the Philippines? And if it was God, would importuning Him to come back by prayer and fasting stand any chance? Should we propitiate Him by lamplight and candlelight in a world of darkness? That is what the EDSA People Power Commission (EPPC) would have us do, even as Muslim Mindanao threatens to explode in another war of attrition without end, even as Metro Manila resembles Noah's Ark about to sail and spin crazily into a biblical tempest.

Where lies the difference?

According to Fallows, effective bureaucracies "needed to be protected from excessive democratic rule" as he sought to explain the economic and social success of many non-democratic countries in East Asia. He continues: "Foremost among these traits is technocratic insulation – the ability of economic technocrats to formulate and implement policies with a minimum of lobbying for special favors from politicians and interest groups." Here comes the clincher: "The function of authoritarian rule (not dictatorial) has been to see that certain national interests are served, interests that might not automatically emerge from the play of market forces or the individual pursuit of happiness."

I hope the lunkheads in Congress are listening. Now read carefully:

"Individual Filipinos are at least as brave, kind and noble-spirited as individual Japanese, but their culture draws the boundaries of decent treatment much more narrowly. Because these boundaries are limited to the family or tribe, they exclude at any given moment 99 percent of the other people in the country. Because of this fragmentation, this lack of useful nationalism, people treat each other worse in the Philippines than in any other Asian country I have seen ... The tradition of political corruption and cronyism, the extremes of wealth and poverty, the tribal fragmentation, the local elite's willingness to make a separate profitable peace with colonial powers – all reflect a feeble sense of national interest. Practically everything that is public in the Philippines seems neglected or abused."

Fallows focuses on the four hundred years the Philippines spent under Spain's thumb, and following that "the distorting effects of the Philippines' encounter with the United States ... But American rule seemed to intensify the Philippines sense of dependence. The US quickly earned or bought the loyalty of the ilustrados. It rammed through a number of laws insisting on free 'competition' at a time when Philippine industries were in no position to compete with anyone." Remember the infamous parity provision?

In short, we have a mendicant society with a mendicant leadership with a mendicant culture. The grossest insult is we are to be pitied and deprecated like Burma. That's about as low as low can get.
Pang253
QUOTE(*promo @ Sep 15 2007, 10:07 PM) [snapback]3210545[/snapback]
READ IT FULLY, IF I COULD READ THROUGH THIS SO CAN YOU.

everthing that is right and wrong about the Filipinos ans Philippines. this guy went into it.


Awesome. It could not have been better said.
felltohell
things that we filipinos who study history and get insights from the news should know by now...
and understand
*promo
QUOTE(felltohell @ Sep 16 2007, 02:32 AM) [snapback]3210796[/snapback]
things that we filipinos who study history and get insights from the news should know by now...
and understand



yeah thats true, but some who study uses it to their advantages.
delilah
anyone here who have read sioil jose's essay on why we are poor? i read it at the site of teodoro benigno and there are lots of points to agree with. we are our own enemies.
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QUOTE
Why are Filipinos so Poor?
In the ’50s and ’60s, the Philippines was the most envied country in Southeast Asia. What happened?
By F. Sionil Jose

What did South Korea look like after the Korean War in 1953? Battered, poor - but look at Korea now. In the Fifties, the traffic in Taipei was composed of bicycles and army trucks, the streets flanked by tile-roofed low buildings. Jakarta was a giant village and Kuala Lumpur a small village surrounded by jungle and rubber plantations. Bangkok was criss-crossed with canals, the tallest structure was the Wat Arun, the Temple of the Sun, and it dominated the city's skyline. Ricefields all the way from Don Muang airport -- then a huddle of galvanized iron-roofed bodegas, to the Victory monument.

Visit these cities today and weep -- for they are more beautiful, cleaner and prosperous than Manila. In the Fifties and Sixties we were the most envied country in Southeast Asia. Remember further that when Indonesia got its independence in 1949, it had only 114 university graduates compared with the hundreds of Ph.D.'s that were already in our universities. Why then were we left behind? The economic explanation is simple. We did not produce cheaper and better products.

The basic question really is why we did not modernize fast enough and thereby doomed our people to poverty. This is the harsh truth about us today. Just consider these: some 15 years ago a survey showed that half of all grade school pupils dropped out after grade 5 because they had no money to continue schooling.

Thousands of young adults today are therefore unable to find jobs. Our natural resources have been ravaged and they are not renewable. Our tremendous population increase eats up all of our economic gains. There is hunger in this country now; our poorest eat only once a day.

But this physical poverty is really not as serious as the greater poverty that afflicts us and this is the poverty of the spirit.

Why then are we poor? More than ten years ago, James Fallows, editor of the Atlantic Monthly, came to the Philippines and wrote about our damaged culture which, he asserted, impeded our development. Many disagreed with him but I do find a great deal of truth in his analysis.

This is not to say that I blame our social and moral malaise on colonialism alone. But we did inherit from Spain a social system and an elite that, on purpose, exploited the masses. Then, too, in the Iberian peninsula, to work with one's hands is frowned upon and we inherited that vice as well. Colonialism by foreigners may no longer be what it was, but we are now a colony of our own elite.

We are poor because we are poor -- this is not a tautology. The culture of poverty is self-perpetuating. We are poor because our people are lazy. I pass by a slum area every morning - dozens of adults do nothing but idle, gossip and drink. We do not save. Look at the Japanese and how they save in spite of the fact that the interest given them by their banks is so little. They work very hard too.

We are great show-offs. Look at our women, how overdressed, over-coiffed they are, and Imelda epitomizes that extravagance. Look at our men, their manicured nails, their personal jewelry, their diamond rings. Yabang - that is what we are, and all that money expended on status symbols, on yabang. How much better if it were channeled into production.

We are poor because our nationalism is inward looking. Under its guise we protect inefficient industries and monopolies. We did not pursue agrarian reform like Japan and Taiwan. It is not so much the development of the rural sector, making it productive and a good market as well. Agrarian reform releases the energies of the landlords who, before the reform, merely waited for the harvest. They become entrepreneurs, the harbingers of change. Our nationalist icons like Claro M. Recto and Lorenzo Ta–ada opposed agrarian reform, the single most important factor that would have altered the rural areas and lifted the peasant from poverty. Both of them were merely anti-American.

And finally, we are poor because we have lost our ethical moorings. We condone cronyism and corruption and we don't ostracize or punish the crooks in our midst. Both cronyism and corruption are wasteful but we allow their practice because our loyalty is to family or friend, not to the larger good.

We can tackle our poverty in two very distinct ways. The first choice: a nationalist revolution, a continuation of the revolution in 1896. But even before we can use violence to change inequities in our society, we must first have a profound change in our way of thinking, in our culture. My regret about EDSA is that change would have been possible then with a minimum of bloodshed. In fact, a revolution may not be bloody at all if something like EDSA would present itself again. Or a dictator unlike Marcos.

The second is through education, perhaps a longer and more complex process. The only problem is that it may take so long and by the time conditions have changed, we may be back where we were, caught up with this tremendous population explosion which the Catholic Church exacerbates in its conformity with doctrinal purity.

We are faced with a growing compulsion to violence, but even if the communists won, they will rule as badly because they will be hostage to the same obstructions in our culture, the barkada, the vaulting egos that sundered the revolution in 1896, the Huk revolt in 1949-53.

To repeat, neither education nor revolution can succeed if we do not internalize new attitudes, new ways of thinking. Let us go back to basics and remember those American slogans: A Ford in every garage. A chicken in every pot. Money is like fertilizer: to do any good it must be spread around.

Some Filipinos, taunted wherever they are, are shamed to admit they are Filipinos. I have, myself, been embarrassed to explain, for instance, why Imelda, her children and the Marcos cronies are back, and in positions of power. Are there redeeming features in our country that we can be proud of? Of course, lots of them. When people say, for instance, that our corruption will never be banished, just remember that Arsenio Lacson as mayor of Manila and Ramon Magsaysay as president brought a clean government.

We do not have the classical arts that brought Hinduism and Buddhism to continental and archipelagic Southeast Asia, but our artists have now ranged the world, showing what we have done with Western art forms, enriched with our own ethnic traditions. Our professionals, not just our domestics, are all over, showing how accomplished a people we are!

Look at our history. We are the first in Asia to rise against Western colonialism, the first to establish a republic. Recall the Battle of Tirad Pass and glory in the heroism of Gregorio del Pilar and the 48 Filipinos who died but stopped the Texas Rangers from capturing the president of that First Republic. Its equivalent in ancient history is the Battle of Thermopylae where the Spartans and their king Leonidas, died to a man, defending the pass against the invading Persians.

Rizal -- what nation on earth has produced a man like him? At 35, he was a novelist, a poet, an anthropologist, a sculptor, a medical doctor, a teacher and martyr.

We are now 80 million and in another two decades we will pass the 100 million mark. Eighty million -- that is a mass market in any language, a mass market that should absorb our increased production in goods and services - a mass market which any entrepreneur can hope to exploit, like the proverbial oil for the lamps of China.

Japan was only 70 million when it had confidence enough and the wherewithal to challenge the United States and almost won. It is the same confidence that enabled Japan to flourish from the rubble of defeat in World War II.

I am not looking for a foreign power for us to challenge. But we have a real and insidious enemy that we must vanquish, and this enemy is worse than the intransigence of any foreign power. We are our own enemy. And we must have the courage, the will, to change ourselves.

F. Sionil Jose, whose works have been published in 24 languages, is also a bookseller, editor, publisher and founding president of the the PhilippinesÕ PEN Center. The foregoing is an excerpt from a speech delivered by Mr. Jose in Manila, Philippines.
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QUOTE(*promo @ Sep 15 2007, 11:01 PM) [snapback]3210648[/snapback]
QUOTE(Hensoldt @ Sep 14 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]3208356[/snapback]
I don't advocate false pride. If you talk the talk you'd better walk the walk if you guys know what I mean.

And don't take any crap from anybody. Look where humility and indifference to confrontation have brought us. Getting trampled upon in our own land of all places. Time we look within ourselves and decide that we must make our homeland a secure place for the next generations free from oppression and exploitation.



just those words alone deserves it own thread and even more.

i think i should have left this forum a little bit alonger instead of coming back after a little after a week. I'm more pissed off then frustrated then ever how some of these Filipino think here and other forums too.

seriously this needs to spread worldwide, we need to have a secure future that is in favor of our children's childern's and not foreign interest. isn't that what our fore parents fight was for our right of freedom and free from foreign oppression! NOW what, what ashame!

we need to plan the new seed of life into future generations of Filipinos that is free of the destructive culture mentality of Philippines. we must rid of the mentality of those who come abroad, wanting to forget who they are and teach them correctly. teach those that are born away from their homeland to look back and know who they are be comfortable with whom they are and not to be ashamed of their roots. most of all teach each of them to love pass thier family and love their country.

i know tacking this these problems in Filipino culture is difficult especially of 300+ years and counting of colonial mentality but needs to start somewhere it needs to. beerchug.gif
Pogpog
AMEN to this!
*promo
this is such a nice topic to deal with and talk about.
delilah
filipinos(in general, not pointing to any particular ethnicity/tribe) kasi have a culture of mediocrity, laziness, passiveness, inferiority complex, puede na yan, bahala na, social climbing(just look at how many people form the sqautters have the latest model of nokia cellphones!), gossiping about the artistas and their neigbors personal and sex life.
*promo
QUOTE(delilah @ Oct 16 2007, 04:21 AM) [snapback]3269758[/snapback]
filipinos(in general, not pointing to any particular ethnicity/tribe) kasi have a culture of mediocrity, laziness, passiveness, inferiority complex, puede na yan, bahala na, social climbing(just look at how many people form the sqautters have the latest model of nokia cellphones!), gossiping about the artistas and their neigbors personal and sex life.



yeah media kills our senses of national pride. thumbsdown.gif thumbsdown.gif
deliria
i daresay media or any other culprit hasn't killed our sense of national pride. we did that all by ourselves with our outlook and attitude about ourselves. with media, for example, we're so gullible that we trust practically everything on the television, radio, news, etc. implicitly. weakness of character. weak sense of self. for from whence spring society but the individual?

and what of national pride?
where does the idea come from?
what purpose does it serve?
*promo
yes i know but whats more evident and problematic is Filipinos won't or don't want to deal with the problems at hand. it seems that they a savior, what that is...


and what of national pride?


ones own self esteem


where does the idea come from?

from traditions and culture. so stop borrowing and seek out our true culture


what purpose does it serve?


to build our own self esteem in our country in which is being abandoned.



Barilin-Kita
Nice read but is nothing new to what ive suspected for a long time.

You only have to read through the Filipino chat, and all accusations of what being a filipino is about is "RIPE" throughout the fu-king useless meaningless threads. I dont pity filipinos, i think they got what they deserved. Life will no less carry on as normal, be the appeassing passive idiots they always are.
ComeClean
are you kidding me???

the filipines is the only country in the s.e.a that still has negrito natives living. let alone the mixed ones. this country should be an utopia just because we have the right kind of ppl for civilization. our true native culture. not usa or pain or mexoc
Barilin-Kita
QUOTE(ComeClean @ Dec 17 2007, 01:35 AM) [snapback]3371696[/snapback]
are you kidding me???

the filipines is the only country in the s.e.a that still has negrito natives living. let alone the mixed ones. this country should be an utopia just because we have the right kind of ppl for civilization. our true native culture. not usa or pain or mexoc



Meaning what exactly??

If Philippines had the right people for civilization, then tell me. Why is the country ripe with corruption, Why is middle class Non existance?. Why is it still a 3rd world country? why is there so much poverty striken people whilst the rich gets richer?..

ComeClean
QUOTE(Barilin-Kita @ Dec 17 2007, 03:18 AM) [snapback]3372369[/snapback]
Meaning what exactly??

If Philippines had the right people for civilization, then tell me. Why is the country ripe with corruption, Why is middle class Non existance?. Why is it still a 3rd world country? why is there so much poverty striken people whilst the rich gets richer?..


the negritos were the 1st civ. in the world.

its would be easy to filipinos to gain their knowldge of civ. creation
speedygonzalez2
I'll agree on one thing here...

The Philippine Educational System is very poor...
*promo
QUOTE(ComeClean @ Dec 16 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]3371696[/snapback]
are you kidding me???

the filipines is the only country in the s.e.a that still has negrito natives living. let alone the mixed ones. this country should be an utopia just because theywe have the right kind of ppl for civilization. theyour true native culture. not usa or pain or mexoc



please!
NeoVxR
as a european I am kind of apologizing to show up here.
but I would like to ask you to see state of matters in our countries and compare.
I think we have an era where grassroots contact and exchange between cultures becomes possible in a positive way.
I mean in a more analytic and intellectual way than is possible with diaspora life and mixed families alone.

the lead-in post says a key sentence
>>But American rule seemed to intensify the Philippines sense of dependence. The US quickly earned or bought the loyalty of the ilustrados.

in the last years, we here in europe are experiencing increasing problems that if you can ever forgive me I may call "filipinization", because it means vast decline of public property and therefore national solidarity and functionality, and more and more sell-out to global or american or russian or chinese economic and political forces. increasing poverty and burden of the poorest, and ruthless populist regionalism that seeks racist "solutions" and separatism ("no-go areas" are a symptom). this means more power to local oligarchs, and more control from brussels-EU centralism, where the oligarchs mix their gambling/yaatsi cards.
people feel dependent, feel loss of control of their social and regional environment.
there is also the "homeland security" trend in europe, control and surveillance measures against the individual citizen are being installed more and more.

we have still some achievements with the economy, though already too much of that is "virtual" or just financial, or carried by outsourcing of work to developing countries. the latter closes a circle, if we become conscious that workers and undertakers are experiencing common global problems, and rising wages elsewhere would also help european citizens in terms of employment and national trade balance.

so I am hoping you can accept that there is some mirroring going on and the way we see each other can be mutually instructive. I learn that 10% filipino population works abroad so they want success and are interested in how they are perceived not only as workers but as humans.

from my perception the discussions here - besides some anecdotal fun and ego-gaming - have a very high and mature level, compared to other forums. I have learned tremendously.
this alone is kind of wealth.


wouldn't you agree that the filipinos are the most global nation on earth? when you combine your knowledge, and be not partisan (like fil-am, fil-ger, fil-hispanic etc) - means not exclusive but rather inclusive (which is an austronesian trait anyway icon_wink.gif ) then you will after some time and some million internet postings and mails gain gigantic advantage in intelligent world view and power of solution, and this is grassroots level, and eventually the intellectual component of every citizen who use the opportunity of discussion.

IMHO there is only one difficult point, that slows down economic progress. it is the self-protection of the cabale who is involved in the games of big power and money. in europe, the bigger part is done with proprietary influence on media, and conservative education, and in some other countries there is in addition brute violence and direct attack on the lives of citizens who want to discuss the problems and (re-)gain democratic control of "public" matters and law enforcement.

the idea that I have about this, we must turn the spear-head of the gigantic "human rights" hype in a direction that protects not only partisan opposition (like the kasparovs or the bougeois opposition in venezuela) but helps much more the grassroots critizism and journalist expression of matters like right-wing and pseudo-conservative cronyism in developing countries.
so that this can be understood, the western world must not be seen as monolithic. the oligarchs and cronies that are so difficult to openly criticize have strong backing in powerful western politicians and financial cabale, but not in the broad population.
but they can only do what is possible, and our progress here is slow too, but still some behaviour of apparatchiks is becoming more and more impossible. they are sweeping dirt under the carpet, thats true, but that also, together with the silencing of criticism, is becoming increasingly difficult.

I think we can help and encourage each other in not-so-political criticism that focuses on particular matters, and must not allow to be hoarded into the "axis of evil" direction just for wanting justice.

the postings about "you have to walk in the shoes of a local filipino" are very true and factual interest of people is of course focussed in their personal lives. I was able to learn about that also from reading discussions among african american "katrina" victims. they tell something similar.
but there might be a huge chance when international networking starts to become conscious about the protection of local people who want to change their situation to the better.
one example is atimes.com with numerous articles about the frequent killing of young journalists.
it must become the interest of citizens in the western world, to be informed about these matters, so it will be the biggest shame to the governments that let such things happen. just jump the human rights bandwagons that are headed to the "muslim women in central asia" thing, or trumpet about the white victims of african leftist governments. then make their trails broader, their journey longer. we must apply these agendas to the philippines and burma also, in a much more useful way. we had a little media storm about burma, but so far little has changed, because conflict of interest with chinese and other powers. we must continue very hard, and use every case to support the other as well.

so, my point is, the problems are not so much based in the culture, but parts of the culture (particularly older solidaric principles) are harmed and weakened by lack of protection of the citizens. this makes them helpless when they attempt to fight corruption and injustice.

the mass media chooses who is the "human rights activist" of the day, that is often a red herring. but media in europe have to be populist. they depend on advertising. so if there is a parallel movement with bloggers and forum partisans, that brings about some different rights violation info, they must hurry behind the story!
actually many newspapers have internet forums connected to the daily articles, and censoring is quite decent because people become really angry when they are not allowed to speak up. from that alone the situation is changing and so some very embarrassing information about official politics can make it into public and provokes reaction, which was not possible before the internet users reached a critical mass.

I also think that the actual handling and the various discussion echo in community forums about the trillanes coup attempt has shown very good maturity and progress. the way I have understood matter says : "if GMA is not perfect and not everything was right, we still see no problems being so sudden and bad that we could not wait until she has completed her term. we can elect then someone else anyway. democracy is now more important to us than immediate action with questionable outcome."
big respect for that. this yields a very good picture.
Torete_ako_sa_yo
QUOTE(NeoVxR @ Jan 8 2008, 04:15 PM) [snapback]3411916[/snapback]
as a european I am kind of apologizing to show up here.
but I would like to ask you to see state of matters in our countries and compare.
I think we have an era where grassroots contact and exchange between cultures becomes possible in a positive way.
I mean in a more analytic and intellectual way than is possible with diaspora life and mixed families alone.

the lead-in post says a key sentence
>>But American rule seemed to intensify the Philippines sense of dependence. The US quickly earned or bought the loyalty of the ilustrados.

in the last years, we here in europe are experiencing increasing problems that if you can ever forgive me I may call "filipinization", because it means vast decline of public property and therefore national solidarity and functionality, and more and more sell-out to global or american or russian or chinese economic and political forces. increasing poverty and burden of the poorest, and ruthless populist regionalism that seeks racist "solutions" and separatism ("no-go areas" are a symptom). this means more power to local oligarchs, and more control from brussels-EU centralism, where the oligarchs mix their gambling/yaatsi cards.
people feel dependent, feel loss of control of their social and regional environment.
there is also the "homeland security" trend in europe, control and surveillance measures against the individual citizen are being installed more and more.

we have still some achievements with the economy, though already too much of that is "virtual" or just financial, or carried by outsourcing of work to developing countries. the latter closes a circle, if we become conscious that workers and undertakers are experiencing common global problems, and rising wages elsewhere would also help european citizens in terms of employment and national trade balance.

so I am hoping you can accept that there is some mirroring going on and the way we see each other can be mutually instructive. I learn that 10% filipino population works abroad so they want success and are interested in how they are perceived not only as workers but as humans.

from my perception the discussions here - besides some anecdotal fun and ego-gaming - have a very high and mature level, compared to other forums. I have learned tremendously.
this alone is kind of wealth.
wouldn't you agree that the filipinos are the most global nation on earth? when you combine your knowledge, and be not partisan (like fil-am, fil-ger, fil-hispanic etc) - means not exclusive but rather inclusive (which is an austronesian trait anyway icon_wink.gif ) then you will after some time and some million internet postings and mails gain gigantic advantage in intelligent world view and power of solution, and this is grassroots level, and eventually the intellectual component of every citizen who use the opportunity of discussion.

IMHO there is only one difficult point, that slows down economic progress. it is the self-protection of the cabale who is involved in the games of big power and money. in europe, the bigger part is done with proprietary influence on media, and conservative education, and in some other countries there is in addition brute violence and direct attack on the lives of citizens who want to discuss the problems and (re-)gain democratic control of "public" matters and law enforcement.

the idea that I have about this, we must turn the spear-head of the gigantic "human rights" hype in a direction that protects not only partisan opposition (like the kasparovs or the bougeois opposition in venezuela) but helps much more the grassroots critizism and journalist expression of matters like right-wing and pseudo-conservative cronyism in developing countries.
so that this can be understood, the western world must not be seen as monolithic. the oligarchs and cronies that are so difficult to openly criticize have strong backing in powerful western politicians and financial cabale, but not in the broad population.
but they can only do what is possible, and our progress here is slow too, but still some behaviour of apparatchiks is becoming more and more impossible. they are sweeping dirt under the carpet, thats true, but that also, together with the silencing of criticism, is becoming increasingly difficult.

I think we can help and encourage each other in not-so-political criticism that focuses on particular matters, and must not allow to be hoarded into the "axis of evil" direction just for wanting justice.

the postings about "you have to walk in the shoes of a local filipino" are very true and factual interest of people is of course focussed in their personal lives. I was able to learn about that also from reading discussions among african american "katrina" victims. they tell something similar.
but there might be a huge chance when international networking starts to become conscious about the protection of local people who want to change their situation to the better.
one example is atimes.com with numerous articles about the frequent killing of young journalists.
it must become the interest of citizens in the western world, to be informed about these matters, so it will be the biggest shame to the governments that let such things happen. just jump the human rights bandwagons that are headed to the "muslim women in central asia" thing, or trumpet about the white victims of african leftist governments. then make their trails broader, their journey longer. we must apply these agendas to the philippines and burma also, in a much more useful way. we had a little media storm about burma, but so far little has changed, because conflict of interest with chinese and other powers. we must continue very hard, and use every case to support the other as well.

so, my point is, the problems are not so much based in the culture, but parts of the culture (particularly older solidaric principles) are harmed and weakened by lack of protection of the citizens. this makes them helpless when they attempt to fight corruption and injustice.

the mass media chooses who is the "human rights activist" of the day, that is often a red herring. but media in europe have to be populist. they depend on advertising. so if there is a parallel movement with bloggers and forum partisans, that brings about some different rights violation info, they must hurry behind the story!
actually many newspapers have internet forums connected to the daily articles, and censoring is quite decent because people become really angry when they are not allowed to speak up. from that alone the situation is changing and so some very embarrassing information about official politics can make it into public and provokes reaction, which was not possible before the internet users reached a critical mass.

I also think that the actual handling and the various discussion echo in community forums about the trillanes coup attempt has shown very good maturity and progress. the way I have understood matter says : "if GMA is not perfect and not everything was right, we still see no problems being so sudden and bad that we could not wait until she has completed her term. we can elect then someone else anyway. democracy is now more important to us than immediate action with questionable outcome."
big respect for that. this yields a very good picture.

I do feel that the Culture is Partly to blame. Remember, I'll try to interject Spain into the arguement for the fact that 40 years ago, in the Franco's era, many Europeans felt Spain was sort of a lost caust because of the Spanish Culture of Manyana and Siestas. Today, Spain is one of the powerhouse economies again and they didn't have to change their culture to do it. My point is that Culture is a double edge sword - Filipino culture is vibrant, colorful, euphoric, enjoyable, exuberant, but it also breeds tardiness, sloppiness, unseriousness, and lacking in ambition.
But, following the footsteps of Spain in the last 30 years, or Brazil in the last 10 years, and we see that we can have the best of both worlds.
The Spanish didn't have to give up Siesta to progress, neither was Brazil transformed into the image of obsessive clock watching culture of America.

We can have a laid back society with modernity and comfort if we show up in time and distinguish clearly when is work and play. When we work, we should only focus on work, but when we relax, that's when we can enjoy the fruits of our labor.

I also believe that a broader discussion needs to take place and labels should simply be dropped. Just because one is from the Liberal Party - doesn't mean they're communist, and just because one still believes in Estrada or Marcos, doesn't mean they are trying to thwart democracy,
and just because one is a Socialist, that doesn't mean they're from the NPA(New People' Army), and just because they're protesting, doesn't mean they don't have legitimate concerns. In our political culture, politicans make their campaigns seem like a fight of Good vs. Evil. This is destructive because dialogue becomes impossible, and good ideas from one side could easily be viewed as Evil ideas by the other, and vice versa.

We are all people, we all have our views, we all deserve to be heard, we all deserve representation, this is true democracy.
speedygonzalez2
spain has the largest titanium clad bldg.. its a museum

and titaniums are very expensive...
they're usually used for rockets and space shuttles
felltohell
^ and your freakn stupid point is?
P. Bredahl
hahaha yeah totally random embarassedlaugh.gif
*promo
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 10 2008, 03:48 PM) [snapback]3417211[/snapback]
spain has the largest titanium clad bldg.. its a museum

and titaniums are very expensive...
they're usually used for rockets and space shuttles



and what does that have to do with the topic? ay nako bobo....
Masipag
QUOTE(*promo @ Jan 11 2008, 10:28 AM) [snapback]3417585[/snapback]
ay nako bobo....


embarassedlaugh.gif
speedygonzalez2
QUOTE(felltohell @ Jan 10 2008, 07:29 PM) [snapback]3417255[/snapback]
^ and your freakn stupid point is?


IM JUST stating facts

biggthumpup.gif
Najjiah
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 11 2008, 01:12 AM) [snapback]3418509[/snapback]
IM JUST stating facts

biggthumpup.gif

and another thing, dont pick fights with hot girls on af. it makes u look like a fagtron. i know ur not gay but thats the impression most ppl get when guys fight w/ girls online.
*promo
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 11 2008, 01:12 AM) [snapback]3418509[/snapback]
IM JUST stating facts

biggthumpup.gif



so your just stating the facts.......




what facts that you have stated would lend to this topic of CULTURE, titanium or how much it cost. do you think you answered the topic or or stated an opinion that fits best for the topic. do you think its a proper opinion or anwser for the topic.

BYI: i'm just stating facts not questions. see i didn't put question mark. just sad your state of mind that is.


your stating fact alright, but that all your doing. nothing intelligent about it.
speedygonzalez2
QUOTE(*promo @ Jan 12 2008, 12:56 PM) [snapback]3421165[/snapback]
so your just stating the facts.......
what facts that you have stated would lend to this topic of CULTURE, titanium or how much it cost. do you think you answered the topic or or stated an opinion that fits best for the topic. do you think its a proper opinion or anwser for the topic.

BYI: i'm just stating facts not questions. see i didn't put question mark. just sad your state of mind that is.
your stating fact alright, but that all your doing. nothing intelligent about it.


ehem....
still nothing wrong on sharing facts to people
Masipag
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 13 2008, 06:12 AM) [snapback]3421513[/snapback]
ehem....
still nothing wrong on sharing facts to people


lol
Masipag
QUOTE(Najjiah @ Jan 11 2008, 06:36 PM) [snapback]3418680[/snapback]
and another thing, dont pick fights with hot girls on af. it makes u look like a fagtron. i know ur not gay but thats the impression most ppl get when guys fight w/ girls online.


Please dont say stupid $hit!
i admit im one of the first to bash speedy in the head, but thats because he says stupid $hit!
If you try to fight "dumb" with dumb a whole lot of dumb will pile up on the forum.. if you know what i mean..
*promo
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 12 2008, 02:12 PM) [snapback]3421513[/snapback]
ehem....
still nothing wrong on sharing facts to people



sharing is one thing

contributing is another

being dumb is something else which it doesn't share nor contribute.

icon_redface.gif dumbo
speedygonzalez2
QUOTE(*promo @ Jan 14 2008, 12:52 PM) [snapback]3425384[/snapback]
sharing is one thing

contributing is another

being dumb is something else which it doesn't share nor contribute.

icon_redface.gif dumbo


is that all u can fire
Ur big mouth...

ehem...

isn't that u promo...

embarassedlaugh.gif
*promo
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 14 2008, 02:33 PM) [snapback]3425858[/snapback]
is that all u can fire
Ur big mouth...

ehem...

isn't that u promo...

embarassedlaugh.gif



being dumb is something else which it doesn't share nor contribute. dumbo.


QUOTE(Dette @ Jan 14 2008, 07:47 AM) [snapback]3425249[/snapback]
Colonial mentality is characterized as being inferior to the colonial masters.

Western powers had a moral obligation to colonize the world and that includes Indonesia even if they would not wanted to.
speedygonzalez2
QUOTE(*promo @ Jan 14 2008, 06:50 PM) [snapback]3426029[/snapback]
being dumb is something else which it doesn't share nor contribute. dumbo.


and u think ur the smarty pants around here..

Not a chance...
ur the DUMB-O

U don't even have a clue how people live in here
honestly, I get sick when people who aren't residing in pinas starts lecturing us in how to
live our lives...

like duh..
ur only up until ur blabbers...
2ndsun
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 15 2008, 04:34 AM) [snapback]3427262[/snapback]
and u think ur the smarty pants around here..

Not a chance...
ur the DUMB-O

U don't even have a clue how people live in here
honestly, I get sick when people who aren't residing in pinas starts lecturing us in how to
live our lives...

like duh..
ur only up until ur blabbers...


And what if we people who don't reside in Pinas had lived in Pinas or were raised there? If we have the knowledge to make comparisons, so be it. Thats the problem with people like you , you hate it when you are compared to other ideas and people, thats why our country is also in shambles the way it is. You are just a bag of stinking wind dude, put a plug in it already.
speedygonzalez2
QUOTE(2ndsun @ Jan 15 2008, 08:19 AM) [snapback]3427299[/snapback]
And what if we people who don't reside in Pinas had lived in Pinas or were raised there? If we have the knowledge to make comparisons, so be it. Thats the problem with people like you , you hate it when you are compared to other ideas and people, thats why our country is also in shambles the way it is. You are just a bag of stinking wind dude, put a plug in it already.


Im happy now..
lalallaa

they've locked the thread u've replied at thai chat

I won't be bothering thai chat for a long time...

peace na...
I won't make any fights na

biggthumpup.gif
*promo
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 15 2008, 04:34 AM) [snapback]3427262[/snapback]
and u think ur the smarty pants around here..

Not a chance...
ur the DUMB-O

U don't even have a clue how people live in here
honestly, I get sick when people who aren't residing in pinas starts lecturing us in how to
live our lives...

like duh..
ur only up until ur blabbers...



what up DUMBO!

and like your ignorant @$$ is going to get up and do anything about it. all you care about is your soups and whitening creme. you can't even think anything to contribute to this thread but your $hit for brains for spanish. whats wrong can't avoid your faults so you imagine your something else. icon_redface.gif nono.gif
2ndsun
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 15 2008, 07:49 AM) [snapback]3427456[/snapback]
Im happy now..
lalallaa

they've locked the thread u've replied at thai chat

I won't be bothering thai chat for a long time...

peace na...
I won't make any fights na

biggthumpup.gif


Lucky for a loser like yourself. At least I had the last word and you're still the jackass. So swallow that with a grain of salt, Mongoloid. embarassedlaugh.gif
speedygonzalez2
QUOTE(2ndsun @ Jan 16 2008, 05:51 AM) [snapback]3429193[/snapback]
Lucky for a loser like yourself. At least I had the last word and you're still the jackass. So swallow that with a grain of salt, Mongoloid. embarassedlaugh.gif


u can hate me all u want
but I know the battle has been won

wheeeeeeeeeee
yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

LOL

rotflmao.gif rotflmao.gif rotflmao.gif
2ndsun
QUOTE(speedygonzalez2 @ Jan 16 2008, 03:10 AM) [snapback]3429229[/snapback]
u can hate me all u want
but I know the battle has been won

wheeeeeeeeeee
yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

LOL

rotflmao.gif rotflmao.gif rotflmao.gif


*Yawn* icon_lame.gif Yeah, yeah, you ain't won jack crap dude.
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