Full Transcript

Sarah Montague:
Malaysia has just celebrated the 50th anniversary of its independence from Britain, and there is much to celebrate. Living standards have improved immeasurably over the past five decades, and the economy is doing well. But race is increasingly becoming a problem. A third of the population are ethnic Chinese or Indian. And they are becoming increasingly frustrated at the systematic discrimination they suffer. My guest today is the country’s Foreign Minister.

[music]

Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar, welcome to HARDtalk.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Thank you very much.

Sarah Montague:
Is it time to change Malaysia’s laws and treat everyone the same?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
When you talking about, looking at everyone, we’re looking at nation building. The most important thing is Malaysians feel they are Malaysians. To recognise our diversity as a source of our strength, there is no need for us to change the laws so long as we’re able to exercise the unity, we’re able to act as Malaysians. And I think this is happening, the process of nation building is not a short process. We came from a very divided society that was recognised by economic functions, living at a very poor living standard. So I think we have tackled the issues in a way that will bring peace and stability, at the same time people are able to share prosperity of the country. And this is happening..

Sarah Montague:
But there were laws that were originally brought in to help Malays, who were… basically to tackle poverty. There might have been some justification for them at some time, but since poverty has been tackled, the illiteracy is eradicated, what’s the justification for treating generations-old… ethnic Chinese and Indians who’ve been in Malaysia for generations; why should they be treated differently now?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think when you’re looking at it from a detached point of view, you might be seeing it in that way. But if you look at it in reality, what is happening is that the economic growth of the non-Malays is faster after the New Economic Policy than before it. The share of the economic cake, is bigger, deeper and wider than before, so it is not as if you’re looking at a theoretical, conceptual thing, you’re looking at the realities on the ground. And the realities on the ground, if you look at the household income, between Malays, Chinese and Indians, even the Indians have got better household income than the Malays. So I think if you take it out of its ethnic dimension, then you will see that it is the function of any government to have the less fortunate, to make sure the divide that is based on ethnic division can be overcome. And I think we have done that quite successfully…

Sarah Montague:
Let’s take a look at access to universities. Is it fair that it’s easier for Malays to get to universities than it is for ethnic Indians or Chinese?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think the question, maybe at the beginning, I think it is the same thing in UK or any country that starts to build a nation. When you start to build a nation, when you see the disparity, the education opportunities, what we wanted to do was to create the opportunity. How do you avoid seeing people who are living in the rural areas with less facilities, how…

Sarah Montague:
… but you don’t have that problem any longer it’s difficult to justify..

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
We do have.. we have.. At present it is based on merit, it is based on merit, and I think if you look at the university, our —– of the education, you have to look in total, the number of students in Malaysia. I think people who see it from outside will try to aggravate the situation and say ‘Oh there is disparity between..

Sarah Montague:
But it doesn’t just seem.. but it doesn’t just seem to be people from outside who are saying this, people within.. it is ethnic Indians and Chinese in Malaysia…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think you have to look at it this way.. I think without me getting excited about it, or emotional about it, looking at it in a fair balance; if you look in terms of total number of students of all universities in Malaysia, there are still more non-Malays than the Malays. And this should not be an issue that divides us. I think ultimately we have done, we have tackled all issues step by step, and it is working. I think for Malaysia it is working. Wherever we see that there is disparity.. At one time scholarships were given to Malays; government scholarships were given to Malays. Now it is open to non-Malays also. So all these things are happening, but we must dismantle..

Sarah Montague:
But what about government contracts…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
For your information, the contracts that are enjoyed by the Chinese in absolute terms, and the non-Malays, is bigger than even the Malays. If I have a piece of land that is one acre in a rural area, that one piece of acre of land, may be valued at RM10,000, or it’s about US$3,000. But if I have got a ten thousand square feet of land, in the urban area, that will cost millions. So we do not look at that.. We are building a nation, a nation that has been left divided, been recognised through economic activities, now there is building on common factors amongst us.

Sarah Montague:
But do you not accept that you are in danger.. that there is rising resentment among ethnic Indians and Chinese because of this situation.. it is persisting when they don’t see that it needs to persist any longer..

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think there is a lot more discussion, open discussion, but you do not misinterpret that open discussion among the races is something negative. It shows that the nation has reached the stage of maturity. We’re questioning things that before we have taken for granted. The Chinese are looking at what more can they get, the Indians are looking how they could improve; I’m not saying that there is no problem, but for outsiders to come and tell us, ‘Ohh you’re going.. there is going to be racial tension, there is going to be problem..’ No. I think you just witnessed the 50th anniversary of independence. I think there is that sense of belonging and ownership. It is up to the Malaysians to subsequently to dismantle whatever they consider is necessary…

Sarah Montague:
… how is it that ethnic Indians and Chinese feel a sense of belonging when they’re, right from the very top, they can’t get access to the top Cabinet posts?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Who told you that?

Sarah Montague:
When was the last time a senior Cabinet post was held by an ethnic Indian or Chinese?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
What do you mean by ‘senior Cabinet post’?

Sarah Montague:
Since 1973, the top Cabinet posts: Prime Minister, Deputy, Home Affairs, Internal Security, Defense, Foreign, Finance, Education, Trade and International Trade.. 1973 is the last time any of those posts was held by a non-Malay..

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I can argue the same thing with so many countries, I can argue the same thing..

Sarah Montague:
We’re not.. we’re not talking about other countries, we’re talking about Malaysia. Other countries can deal with their problems of their own. How would you deal.. Do you recognise that is a problem?

You talk about sharing power, there is..

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No no let me talk to you in a way that is most… that you do not get excited… that you do not get upset about something that you do not understand. Let me tell you this: Whenever we want to do something, it is important for us to look at other countries. That’s where we learn, that’s how we leapfrog. Democracy does not come by itself, it comes because we look at the examples of other places. So let me say that, in the case that, the most important thing is, there will come a time when the Chinese, the Indians and the other races in Malaysia have accepted that arrangement; how can somebody from outside come to tell us, ‘Ohh..’

Sarah Montague:
You mean…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
They have accepted..

Sarah Montague:
.. you mean this situation is fine because nobody is saying anything in Malaysia about it..

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No no.. not nobody is saying. If they are able to.. if the Opposition, if they’re able.. or the Chinese parties decide to get together and to change that thing, there is nothing under the law to stop it. That is what I’m saying..

Sarah Montague:
Do you not think it’s a little odd that all the senior posts… in the Cabinet in the last 30 years have been held by a non-Malay?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I don’t think… I don’t think so. This is a democratic system. Each one of them have agreed in the coalition to work together. It is well and good for somebody to say that ‘All this.. it should not be’, I don’t think we’re going to be told how it should be..

Sarah Montague:
There is outside… there is inside Malaysia who say this.. this social contract is actually State racism. What do you say to that?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Oh. I can say the worse about Israeli State racism; in our case we don’t have that provision. You have to look at it in, I think, objectively. I don’t think it is right to look at Malaysia as a racist country. I don’t think it is right. You should see how the infusion of cultures, the getting together, the people get along together.. Yes you can find there are.. people who disagree with it.. there are certain things that people say ‘Ah it’s not perfect,’.. I would be the last person that say this is a perfect situation, but I think we have succeeded in building a multiracial society out of our diversity. We have succeeded in bringing the whole of the Malaysian community, even against the diverse backgrounds, together, to work together. There will come a time… that… if it is the choice of the people, because one person is one vote..

Sarah Montague:
When do you think that time will come..

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
… That is up to the voters…

Sarah Montague:
Because there are plenty of people outside Malaysia, who look at it, and let’s take a look at investors, because [while you] think, ‘Look it’s absolutely fine,’ there are those who would invest in Malaysia, but choose not to do so. And here’s an emerging markets fund manager. He’s cashed out most of his fund investments in Malaysia, because he said, ‘The problem is that the Malays would do a lot better as well if there weren’t the restrictions. They’ve got the resources, they’ve got the people; they’re just not harnessing them in the right way.’ And he suggests that you roll back those measures, to encourage entrepreneurial energy. And that was Mark Mobius, who’s the fund manager with Franklin Templeton.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think what he’s saying, if you do not… If there are ten fund managers, there is one fund manager that say in that way, then I think he is entitled to his own view. But the majority of fund managers find that Malaysia is a good place for investment, it is a good place that gives good returns on investment; the Malaysian economy has grown because of foreign investment..

Sarah Montague:
But why has it not grown as much as other countries in the area..

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think they’re quite happy that it has grown for the last.. If you look at it from double digit, now we have grown about 6 percent, so it’s not a bad growth..

Sarah Montague:
… But it’s slowing and your neighbouring countries are growing faster.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No there are times that our neighbouring countries grow slower, and we grow faster. I mean, you can’t take… one particular moment and say ‘Oh this is growing faster, therefore it is because of..’, I can actually give all sorts of clarifications if I want to, on so many things. But I think you have to look at it; have we succeeded in creating peace and stability, in generating prosperity among the races, have we succeeded in trying to infuse [?] culture out of our diversity; we are better off than many other countries..

Sarah Montague:
But my question is, will it continue to do so?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think it will. I am not in the same position like you are… look at it negatively. I am a Malaysian. My love for my country, my commitment to my country, I would say yes. I am not going to allow any foreigners to tell me, ‘Oh this is going to break’. No I will not allow that.

Sarah Montague:
A recent survey on race relations in Malaysia found that 34 percent of those who were asked had never had a meal with citizens of other races. The lives of different races within Malaysia are now so divided that, that you have different races – they learn in separate schools, they eat separately, they work separately, they socialise separately – does that worry you?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
If that happens like the way you say, of course it worries us. That’s why we have been addressing the racial issues. We talk about among ourselves, I do not know whether you [?] realise or not, we talk about the danger of polarisation, the danger of us looking at ourselves separately, of course we tackle these problems. But we recognise, it can exist. But we have got a desire of tackling those issues. It’s not we are saying, you know try to brush everything under the carpet and think, ‘Oh it doesn’t exist’. What exists, we recognise. But it is not.. it is not as if we are not doing something..

Sarah Montague:
But why is society is becoming increasingly divided? The Crown Prince of Perak makes the point that in his boyhood, the different races mixed more freely. He says some Malay-majority schools have made the girls wear headscarves… … people to avoid non-Malay homes. He points to the fact that lives are being lived more separately, increasingly so.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think that’s a very good comment that he has made. He is as much responsible as all of us are. All of us have to find a way… that means we have identified the problems that we have… the fact that a person wears a headscarf does not make a person an extreme. What we want to avoid, is extreme behaviour, whether of faith or culture, or of customs. We need to work together. I think the most important thing, you know Sarah, if I can tell you, is to understand the issues and then try to address them. Not to look at the issues, and say that, ‘Oh it’s getting worse.’ There is this problem, we need to tackle those problem. I’m not saying that there is no problem. That is the very thing that you are saying..

Sarah Montague:
.. the fact that it is getting worse, and when I quote the Crown Prince … uhh… the prominent historian Khoo Kay Kim says, ‘It is becoming increasingly difficult for the peoples of various ethnic groups to participate in common activity.’

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No, I think this is what the Malaysians have addressed. All of us are talking about it. It’s not something that is alien, that you are telling me that this exists; we know that.

Sarah Montague:
But it is getting worse. Do you not accept it is getting worse?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No, I think there is relations all over the world, is getting worse. Polarisation all over the world is getting worse. But it does not mean you should give up. We know it exists, but we want to take steps to overcome them. That’s why, our current government, is giving the opportunity, for everyone to talk about it. And then try to provide solutions. One of the things that we have done in the Merdeka celebrations is to make that sense of participation, that every race… Because we know there is that problem of polarisation, division… People leaving go to Chinese schools, go to Tamil schools, they don’t mix with each other; so all these, we are handling and tackling them. I am not going to take…

Sarah Montague:
What are you plan to do about the schools then, the fact that…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
The schools, we need to overcome the problem of sensitivities. We wanted to establish the integrated schools, where everyone, studying their language, their … medium of instruction, under one school. But here in this particular case, the Chinese does not want. They want a separate school of their own. So now what we have done, in the national schools, we have brought in the… you can study Chinese, you can study Tamil, you can study other ethnic… You know you can’t get that in other places. You know some… I think, we recognise their problems, but it is not a problem we cannot overcome.

Sarah Montague:
Article 11 of the Malaysian Constitution says ‘every person has the right to profess and practise his religion’. Increasingly, that seems to be becoming meaningless. Is it?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I don’t think so. I don’t agree with you. You’re talking about practising their own religion.. you know, Malaysia is one of the places that you can see the practice of multi-religions, and all religions exist in Malaysia. But if you’re talking about, you know, converting one person to… That is a different issue entirely…

Sarah Montague:
Why is a Muslim, and there have been some high-profile cases, perhaps one of the most high-profile – Lina Joy, a Malay woman. She tried to convert to Christianity and she wasn’t allowed to.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think you have made the whole thing… turn into something that is negative. Lina Joy wanted to change her name; she was never not allowed to convert to Christianity or whatever religion that she has chosen. But a person is born, with an identity card; there is a system that we have in Malaysia, the ID. And that ID you want to change, that creates problems. It is nothing to do with the fact that nobody has arrested her and forced her to become a Muslim, to convert to become a Muslim. But the court decided, on the basis that, you cannot change your name in the ID. But she has got her own choice, she has made her own choice, in wanting to be what she has chosen. I don’t think we stop that.

Sarah Montague:
So anybody can convert. Let’s take the case of Revathi Masoosai. Now she was a Muslim-born Malaysian woman, who was sent to an Islamic rehabilitation centre for six months, because she tried to live as a Hindu.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
[pause] I think that happens all the time, for a Muslim, you have to look at the diversity.. If you are a Muslim, you are converted or you choose to convert – we see whether that conversion is being done, she has entered into another religion voluntarily or not, then she will have that right, the choice, the option to decide on her own. I think … out of 5 million Malaysians, or there are about 12 million Malaysians who have profess certain religions, and there are two or three cases; I don’t think it represents the whole country. And there are quite a number of issues that are more important, bigger than what you are describing, but if you describe out of one, then it becomes the whole picture. I don’t think that is right.

Sarah Montague:
It’s.. it’s important because it shows what the State is doing, it shows how it could affect other individuals. I mean, if you take her case, why could she not practise as a Hindu?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
She has decided.. If ultimately she has decided to become a Hindu, that’s up to her.

Sarah Montague:
.. But she had to go through what she has gone…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
She is a Muslim.

Sarah Montague:
Six months rehabilitation, she says it was like a prison. They say it’s a school, but it’s actually like a prison.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Yah, out of the how many Muslim women that got converted to Hindus?

Sarah Montague:
She…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
You are.. you know she came out, and she said that is what had happened. Have they proceeded against her? They have not proceeded against her. She has.. they want to make sure that…

Sarah Montague:
She now has to live with her mother in order to see her child.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
To see her child… whether…

Sarah Montague:
She has a child with the Hindu man.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
You know, if you follow a certain religion, like you are a member of a certain club, you are subject to certain rules. When you want to get out of that club, then you must make sure you follow that rule in getting out of it. But nobody is going to stop anyone, who so strongly profess a certain religion, they want to change to another religion, that’s up to them. But it does create… misunderstanding, between people, between religions. Malaysia we have survived, because we have kept …that, that compartment [?], rather than… you know.. the various religions living, practising… without interference. If you see in Malaysia, there are more… Malaysia practises more freedom than even in this country.

Sarah Montague:
But these cases are used… are used as examples of where people fear a creeping Islamisation of Malaysia.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think there is.. there is that prejudice rather than creeping Islamisation. You must remember that in the Constitution, Islam is the official religion of Malaysia. You know.. that at the same time, we have got per capita population, we have got so many…

Sarah Montague:
But is it an Islamic State?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
It is an Islamic State.

Sarah Montague:
It is, or is not?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
… but it is not a theocratic Islamic State. We have said that. You know because we, as far as we are concerned, we do not see the separation you know, the old rule – the separation of church and State, as something that is applicable to us. We do not stop people building churches, there are so many churches in Malaysia, more than wherever you can find…

Sarah Montague:
But you have Syariah Courts operating…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Syariah Court is up to the Muslims.

Sarah Montague:
Only for the Muslims?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
It’s for the Muslims. It’s not.. it’s… you know please don’t.. don’t get…

Sarah Montague:
But you have this system because of the amendment in 1988, where there seems to be confusion over when Syariah Law applies, and when…

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think that.. that.. I know that you have looked at certain parts of it, and then you try to dissect it. Okay. When there is… on matters pertaining to Syariah, the jurisdiction is given to the Syariah Court. On matters pertaining to Syariah, if there is any conflict between the two laws – between the Syariah and our civil laws – it is for the courts to decide. But this is done in the courts. It is.. we use the rule of law in order to determine right and to determine which law is applicable. And I think that is the correct way of approaching the subject. Malaysia is not an easy country to govern. It is easier for commentators to say ‘This is wrong. This is wrong.. this is wrong,’ but I think that you have to live in it, to see how to govern the country. And I think overall, we are very happy in what is happening in our country, and whatever weaknesses, we will overcome them.

Sarah Montague:
When your Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi became prime minister, he promised to do a number of things, not least tackle corruption. And yet, a survey by PERC (Editor’s Note: Political and Economic Risk Consultancy), which is a Hong Kong-based consultancy, showed that corruption is perceived to have worsened in Malaysia this year. Does he accept that you have a lot more to do?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Yes, I think we agree with that. We have to do a lot more in terms of ensuring good governance, ensuring that our fight against corruption can be overcome. I think this is a perennial problem that needs to be tackled, and that has to be tackled with the law, as well as with education, that is why we have established the Integrity.. the Institute of Integrity, in order to inculcate that sense of good governance, values – which is necessary, sense of morality.. When we have problems, we identify them, and we try to tackle them.

Sarah Montague:
It is not going as fast as you would hope. Do you accept that?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think in some areas it is slow, in some areas it is… moving in the right direction. But there are.. there are problems.

Sarah Montague:
Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar, many thanks.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Thank you very much, thank you.

Sarah Montague:
… how is it that ethnic Indians and Chinese feel a sense of belonging when they’re, right from the very top, they can’t get access to the top Cabinet posts?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Who told you that?

Sarah Montague:
When was the last time a senior Cabinet post was held by an ethnic Indian or Chinese?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
What do you mean by ‘senior Cabinet post’?

Sarah Montague:
Since 1973, the top Cabinet posts: Prime Minister, Deputy, Home Affairs, Internal Security, Defense, Foreign, Finance, Education, Trade and International Trade.. 1973 is the last time any of those posts was held by a non-Malay..

Both of them are annoying

The things that I agree with the Datuk:

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I can argue the same thing with so many countries, I can argue the same thing..

Name a country, and you would most probably see that the most important positions are held by the majority. (US, Israel, China, Japan, etc). Malaysia is just another country that practices the same thing

What I don't agree with the Datuk:

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
You are.. you know she came out, and she said that is what had happened. Have they proceeded against her? They have not proceeded against her. She has.. they want to make sure that…


Why was he even go round and round like that? He's just trying to evade the reality that a Muslim can't convert to another religion in Malaysia

Both of them are annoying

I have a severe dislike of Sarah Montague...well actually anybody who has ever been associated with the Today programme.

Yes but through Malaysia's history the Malays until recently hadn't been in a significant majority. At the time of independence, Malays only made up just over 50% of the population, infact if you included Singapore at independence,the Chinese were actually the majority. I strongly believe in promoting based on merit, and I don't want to suggest that the "senior" ministers didn't deserve their portfolio but I find it difficult to believe that, in so many years not one non-Malay would be more qualified then his/her Malay counterpart for the job for any of those Ministries.

There are so many things wrong with what he's said, firstly Malaysians are not united, its a hopeful fantasy if he thinks that Malaysians are united. The division in races is the biggest it has ever been. My mum's family live in a predominantly Malay "kampong". I used to remember we would visit our neighbours during Hari Raya and they would come over whenever we had any celebrations ie Christmas, Chinese New Year, Birthdays etc. Now the neighbours hardly ever mix.

I don't think the people would mind if the govnt helped the less fortunate, infact its the govnts responsibility to help those less fortunate, but not help the less fortunate of only one race.

Its interesting that he says there are more non Malays in Universities, well what about public Universities only, whats the percentages there, or the percentages of those on scholarships. The govnt has no influence on private undergraduate programmes.

Non Malays still cannot talk about the NEP or the "favouritism" showed to Islam, under any context even in parliament.

The Price of Perak is right the division among races is bigger then it has ever been. Among all the royal families in Malaysia, the Perak royal family is probably the most educated.

And again he claims Malaysia is an Islamic State, it is NOT an Islamic State.

He makes some good arguments sometime but to me its sad when a senior govnt Minister doesn't see the main problems in Malaysia or simply chooses to gloss over them.

Agree, she is fairly irritating!
I think Syed Hamid Albar is held hostage by the reality of day-to-day politics of rural Malaysia, his constituency is the Malays heartland. It's the wrong tactic to choose to gloss over the harsh realities of life for ordinary Malaysians who are more separated than ever by the racial divide. I hear you clearly when you related the lesser mingling between the folks at your mom's kampung. My family always have open houses whenever Hari Raya comes and they will have friends from uni come over. And during Chinese New Year I used to go crazy collecting ang pow from the uncle2 and auntie2. It is obvious that Malaysians in general do not mix as much as they did even as late as the 80s.

Even with Singapore in Malaysia, Lee Kuan Yew conceded that the Malays would be the first amongst equals, even if at the time Malays were been outnumbered by the Chinese and Indians. He did foresee that in the original form of Malaysia ie with Singapore in it, no one can use the racial cards as balance of power will be equal. That time has now past though. Malays are now stronger in numbers, and it would take Malays to change the mindset of other Malays.

I take up on your point on Raja Nazrin. I had made a thread on his father HRH Sultan Azlan Shah, the one sultan in Malaysia that I give my utmost respect and affection. It would appear that Raja Nazrin takes after his father in outlook and sense of fairplay. Daulat Tuanku.

The NEP is not Islamic, it breeds complacency and a sense of arrogance amongst some Malays. That was never its purpose, but this is the result of our social experiment over the last three decades.

I think its sad, from young I remember the friendships I shared with my non-Chinese friends. I don't see the same unity in Malaysia as I used to. When we left Malaysia I was very sad and to a certain extent angry at my parent for taking me away from my friends and family, now 20+ years down the track, I'm greatful my parents had the vision to see what was happening in Malaysia.

You're very right that since the Malays hold such a large majority, they hold the power and as such any changes need to come from them, I fear though that all the changes in the last few decades have been towards a more Conservatiev(Arabisation) Malaysia. The push for Malays recieving special treatment is as strong as if not stronger then ever, Islam at the expense of other religions is growing more influential, and people basically just disregarding the constitution for their own desires. Without trying to sound like a pessimist, I fear Malaysia disintegrating from the inside.

I see alot of royal families in Malaysia abusing thier power, and to me they are certainly not the model Muslims and therefore I don't respect them as the official protectors of Islam. I can tell you of many incdences of un Islamic behaviour. However, I do hold the Royal family of Perak in high regard, they do not fall back on their royal prevelidges to support themselves and unlike their contemporaries, they see royalty as much as a responsibility as it is a prevelidge. Most of them, including the girls are well educated, and they speak the voice of unity and tolerance.

I agree that the NEP was altruistic in is conception, but its become more then that now. Islam the NEP and Malays are so intertwined they cannot be seperated.

It is still really sad that many still see non Malays as not as deserving as Malays.

The moderate Malays need to speak up, the problem is that even when they do, they are shouted down, called un-Islamic and branded traitors to their race.

I’m in agreement with all that you’ve said. It’s not my place to say whether I’m a moderate Malay or not, though you might feel that I am. The close Malaysians friends I have here are mostly Chinese, cos the majority of Malaysians who stay on in the UK are the Chinese Malaysians. At some UK universities, there are more than one Malaysian student societies, some are truly multiracial while others are very dominated by the Malays leaving the others to form another Malaysian society, often in conjuction with our neighbours down south which then becomes quite Chinese-dominated. I mix with both cos it means I could makan more! 

I feel very very strongly for you, like a kindred. You’re still very much Malaysian at heart, swingdoctor, despite the fact that you’re now Australian. It is very important that you believe that there are many of us who dream of and will continue to fight for a truly equitable and progressive Malaysia for all. There are good people in Malaysia who are trying to turn this tide around, and increasingly I feel that the answer lies with opposing the government which has grown complacent.

Look at Hishamuddin. They are both alumni of St John’s Institution, as is Raja Nazrin. Yet at times their stand on a united Malaysia seemed to be at ends with the other. I felt so alienated with the polemics and rhetorics of keris-waving at the UMNO Assembly. I don’t feel that Hishamuddin represents my interest.

Your point on the increasing Islamisation of Malaysia is valid. Malaysia is struggling with its Muslim majority identity. It's a problem that happens worldwide, even in Eurocentric Turkey. In large parts it's a natural reaction to the perceived injustices against Muslims in the Middle East, be it real or imaginary. Iraq can be used as a case study. Many Muslims have a collective recollection of Baghdad of the old Abbasid caliphate, the centre of learning of the world. Look at how now it's left to spiral into decay. It's infuriating that democracy was used as an excuse for what is essentially the thirst for oil. This anger indirectly fuels the Islamisation of the Malays. It's not so much that they adopt Arab values than it is them turning their backs agaisnt what is seen as the hypocritical West.

The battle for the Muslim ummah will last long after both you and I have left this earth swingdoctor. I am optimistic that in future there will be a return to the more enlightened Islam which will emerge from the ashes of crumbled insular fundamentalism. The very first word of the Quran being "Iqra'" which means Read. Knowledge today is largely in the English-speaking world, yet many Muslims choose not to read and learn. The Prophet Muhammad SAW said, "Seek you knowledge as far as China" yet some Malays who profess to be devout Muslims stll use own their Chinese brothers as an excuse for their lack of progress. On a closing note, Malaysia is currently trying to be a centre of Islamic banking, with some success, and hopefully this marriage of traditional principles with modern day economic realities will be a catalyst for a more outward-looking and progressive Malay Muslim society. Wallahualam.

Ahhhh obvioulsy the main priority in life .

I am saddened that even when overseas and "lonely" Malaysians still cannot mix well together, such that they have to form 2 Malaysian societies. Personally I blame the govnt for this.

Whatever happens Malaysia will always be the country of my birth, I have family(generations) who are buried there and therefor I will be forever tied to Malaysia. I am personally embarassed by Australia being in Iraq because I agree with you that the war was at least partially started by oil, but having said that I don't believe that at least initially the Iraqis didn't want us to come. The sad thing about Iraq is that by and large its not the Iraqis doing the killing, but it is the Iraqis getting killed. I don't believe that the "terrorists" there are interested in the welfare of the Iraqis or even in Islam, they are there for political reasons and probably hatred too. So I see both sides as being in the wrong. Unfortunately, "Gajah, sama gajah berperang, pelanduk mati di tengah-tengah"

I don't know if you are conservative or not, I know you believe in anti apostacy, but I respect your opinions becasue you have considered other points of view when forming your own opinion, rather then just chanting religious slogans, as some others do often blindly and worst still without reasoning. We may not agree but at least we can have a discussion about it from considered points of view. And I don't believe that if you didn't get your way, say for example if Muslims were allowed to convert, that you would threathen me, but would accept it and move on. We can't get our own way all the time but to live happily next to each other we must learn to compromise. At the moment in Malaysia I feel that for the non Malays there is no compromise, they have to accept everything that the Malays tell them, and then they are told they should be greatful. This is very painful for non Malays and engenders a sense of betrayal.

I have always respected your opinions.

I know, Malaysians are blessed with good food. The one true thing that binds us all together

Lest you get me wrong swingD, most Malaysians I know in the UK both during my time and even now get on well together. The separate Malaysian societies are a minority, not majority.
When you throw a curveball like that by speaking Malay, it really catches me offguard!!
Another elephant-related peribahasa; sometimes for us Malays it's a case of, Kuman seberang laut nampak, tapi tidak pula gajah di depan mata. Likewise for me, one of the pleasures of joining AF is knowing people like you, someone that I genuinely enjoy having a discourse with.

You're right in that I'm anti-apostacy for Muslims in Malaysia but this is very much ingrained in the Malay culture as it is practised in Malaysia. Malays of yore, say back in the 60s could drink, gamble, cross-dress (become mak nyah), and indulge in other multitudes of 'un-Malay ' activities, and will then be the scandalous talk of the kampung. But they will get away with it. Apostasy though is the one unforgiveable amongst Malays, even then. Having lived in the UK though, I cannot help but feel that this is indeed unfair, (most of my mat salleh friends are only nominally Christians, most are atheist in practise) but such is the state of affairs in Malaysia. Other injustices done under the slogan of Islam I can challenge, but not the case against apostasy. It's ingrained too deeply in my psyche.

There's only so much I feel we can do on an online forum like this. One can argue that the pen is mightier than the sword, but conversely similarly action is louder than words, and I already am very comfortable living my life as a Malaysian in the UK amongst my other Malaysian friends, and we truly don't care for skin colour or religion. I don't feel the need to project my real life onto the internet.

I sincerely do apologise if I don't come to your defense often enough when your integrity is attacked by some here. You have my respect, and I do respect your opinions too, the vast majority of which echoes mine. Malaysia for all Malaysians. Away with Malay-centric laws that prevent the greater development of Malaysia, especially those that uses Islam as an excuse.

I agree that the seperate Malaysian societies are a minority. I'm saddened when some Mara scholars who come as part of their attachment to my clinic have nothing to do with the non Malay scholars at Monash and actively avoid mixing with them, instead choosing to integrate into what I consider a more radical Muslim organisation that discourages them from mixing with non Muslims. I understand the psyche of being lonely and wanting to fall back on something that is familiar, but even so it is concerning.

I appreciate your honesty regarding anti-apostacy, I respect the fact that it has been ingrained in you psyche since young. Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems that in your mind at least you do acknowlede that it is unfair. I hope that in the future your sense of fairness can overcome what you feel deep inside.

I know it seems that I "bite" whenever someone says anything that is seemed as being prejudicial but I feel personally that people shouldn't be allowed to think that its acceptable when they are intimidating, or when they really are being so unfair in their thinking. I know that often right and wrong is just a matter of opinion but, sometimes the comments here are just so wrong, it isn't just a matter of opinion. And I'm starting to believe more and more that"Evil flourishes when godd men do nothing". So many of us carry the burden of prejudices taught to us by our parents and our communities, deep down many Malays think that Chinese are money hungry and greedy, Chinese think that Malays are lazy. These are prejudices that children by and large learn from the people around them. The challange to us, the younger generation is to not let these prejudices determine how we view each other but to observe and judge for ourselves what we believe is right, wrong and fair.

I think Malaysia is in a unique position with such large proportions of different races living side by side. She can show the world the way of tolerance and peaceful existance or just be another example of how people of differnet races cannot co-exist peacefully.

I agree with you completely that evil flourishes when good men do nothing. Thing is, it was never my intention to join AF to talk about serious matters. I try to set an example by being non-racial in outlook in my daily life, it's lucky that I can do this as there are still many Malaysian doctors and students where I work and live, and I mingle freely with everyone. AF is just an avenue that I use to make friends and exchange friendly ideas, not to get into overly serious political discussions. I meet have met Malays like Esfandiari and 1+1 in real life and will be more than happy to get into a healthy argument with them, but to do so online I think is not something I'd like to commit too much of my time to. But as much as I can from now swingD, I'll back you up when I can. I don't spend too much time on AF anymore though...

To clarify matters concerning apostasy, I feel it is unfair that Malays aren't allowed officially to convert out of Islam, but it's already the norm which will not change. The civil court will never over-rule the syariah judgement on this matter. I do not see any Muslim judges doing this in Malaysia. This is my own personal belief. Islam does not believe in suicide, but I believe in euthanasia - passive euthanasia. These are just my beliefs.

On the contrary, I love making racial jokes!! You know that you're alright when you can make Chinese and Malay and Indian jokes with your friends of these backgrounds and everyone will just laugh it off. Again, I already do this in real life with my circle of friends so at times it feels really overbearing to repeat my thoughts online time and time again. We don't let prejudices get in the way.

As for the Mara scholars, ideally the Mara schools need to be revamped. It's not healthy to have an all-Malay environment at boarding school. I actually brought this up in a Malaysian student function with Datuk Nazri, the MARA minister on a meet-the-students session in London a few years back. Boy, did that go down well with some students! But I made my argument clearly, stating that it is a hindrance in opening the mindset of the Malays. It inculcates a sense of familarity and does not encouraging them to venture out of their comfort zones. How then would they function in the pricate sector which by and large is dominated by the urban elites, Chinese outnumbering the Malays? Datuk Nazri surprisingly took it quite well; sure he used some arguments about the lack facilities faced by the kampung Malays but I've made my point that there are Malays who diagree with the MARA policies. A really petty incident occured once during the Hari Raya group phot session that I'd organise to send to Utusan Malaysia. There was a Malay girl doing medicine who felt uncomfortable that all the Malaysian medical students were present for the photo session. I said it was a petty issue and told her she could either join us or not. She did, and the photo got published by both Utusan and The Star which doesn't usually publish Raya greetings (I'd sent a letter to the editor).

I grew up as a Malaysian, not merely Malay. But increasingly the Malay-Muslim aspect is being shoved down my throat. I only feel this in Malaysia, never in the UK. I see the Tourism Malaysia Truly Asia ad on CNN and BBC and behind all the gloss, I can recognise its truths. Malaysia can genuinely be a model for a tolerant multiracial society.

That was just a general comment and one mainly directed at me, we pick our fights and our battles, you can't fight all the fights and I do appreciate your backing, though I don't expect it. I appreciate that with what you are doing you don't have much free time. By the way how's your studying coming along? Hope your family's well and your GF also. My wife and I will be in London for a couple of days in mid October part of a holiday before we have to start being responsible.

Wow I think that was quite courageous to challange the establishment like that. Many of my parents Malay friends have been pressured into wearing headscarves and into being more conservative. Its sad but their friendship s have drifted apart.

I feel kind of shame China has leave it to BBC to press for rights of overseas Chinese where is xinhua telling the guy to acts up, or china has to move to defend its interests?

I have suggested in the past that Chinese Malaysians should just gather their wealth and leave Malaysia and let malays them become backwards.

Singapore is desperately looking for skilled foreign workers due to dwindling birthrates. Many Indians are working over there. Seriously Chinese Malaysians should look into moving to Singapore.

I am sure China can make good use of the wealth of Chinese Malaysians. Is there any policy the China government have enacted to encourage overseas Chinese to come back and make China their home once again?

That will teach the Malaysians a lesson. Their economy will crumble and will put them back 50 years.

we all know chinese which make up their income by small retails chain and kongsis are just burden and only become liability of Malaysia to move forward

btw, there are more chinese in Indonesia or Thailand than in Malaysia.
Chinese Malaysians have migrated out of Malaysian, chinese used to account at rate of 45% of Malaysia population. now is merely 20%.
When chinese made up 45% of Malaysia population in early 1970's gdp/capita Malaysia is below Thailand, Philippines and equal with Indonesia. Now Malaysia gdp double and triple of those countries with less number of chinese. Malaysia has better economy progress by less chinese exist in the country.

we all know chinese which make up their income by small retails chain and kongsis are just burden and only become liability of Malaysia to move forward

just keep deluding yourself then. you'd never had the gdp growth without chinese. look at singapore your far better neighbor, filled to the chin with chinese. c'mon let's not throw rocks at your own foot.

1 Petronas company is already contribute to around 20% of Malaysia gdp, not counting others Malays and goverment owned company: Proton, Khazanah, MAS, Maybank, Guthrie, Naza, Perodua, Bumiputra commerce etc...
Those smalls store and stall owned by chinese do not contribute anything to Malaysia income and progress, only give contribution to those chinese family income who own the store. That's what I call chinese only liability to Malaysia, Malaysia need to wait to move forward, in developed nation the people do not buy household stuff and groceries in mini store or stalls but in megastores which will offer better price (no retail chain price jack up) and will offer alot of jobs oppurtunities for individu in low income family.
But if goverment go with policy of megastore right now those chinese cheap retail store will go drain, so safe to say your fate are in your Malay master hand.

Yep, I'm a moron.

btw, there are more chinese in Indonesia or Thailand than in Malaysia.
Chinese Malaysians have migrated out of Malaysian, chinese used to account at rate of 45% of Malaysia population. now is merely 20%.
When chinese made up 45% of Malaysia population in early 1970's gdp/capita Malaysia is below Thailand, Philippines and equal with Indonesia. Now Malaysia gdp double and triple of those countries with less number of chinese. Malaysia has better economy progress by less chinese exist in the country.

we all know chinese which make up their income by small retails chain and kongsis are just burden and only become liability of Malaysia to move forward

Well said.

btw, there are more chinese in Indonesia or Thailand than in Malaysia.
Chinese Malaysians have migrated out of Malaysian, chinese used to account at rate of 45% of Malaysia population. now is merely 20%.
When chinese made up 45% of Malaysia population in early 1970's gdp/capita Malaysia is below Thailand, Philippines and equal with Indonesia. Now Malaysia gdp double and triple of those countries with less number of chinese. Malaysia has better economy progress by less chinese exist in the country.

we all know chinese which make up their income by small retails chain and kongsis are just burden and only become liability of Malaysia to move forward

I don't know what the percentage of Chinese there are in Thailand but in Indonesia Chinese make up <5% of the population. It is not the raw numbers that matter with regard to the impact a community makes but the percentage of the overall population, which in Malaysia is still 20-25%.

I don't know where you get your data on GDP per capita but this data suggests that your data is wrong http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/drabble.malaysia

Its obvious in 1973, Malaysia's GDP per capita is double that of Thailand and 2.5 times that of Indonesia. In 1990, Malaysia's GDP per capita is 1.5 times that of Thailand and still 2.5 times that of Indonesia. Compared to Singapore, Malaysia's GDP per capita has fallen further behind, in 1973 Singapore's GDP per capita was about 1.7 times that of Malaysia, in 1990, it was 2.5, in 2006 it was 5.6 according to these statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...nal)_per_capita. According to these same statistics Malaysia's GDP per capita was 1.8 that of Thailand and 3.7 times that of Indonesia in 2006.

Not knowing what the percentage of Chinese there are in Thailand its obvious that the countries with the largest Chinese population by percentage has had a greater growth in GDP per capita.

What statistics do you have to suggest how Chinese make their money in Malaysia or their contribution to the GDP? If it wasn't for the discriminatory law in Malaysia that says all companies in Malaysia have to be at least 50% owned by Malays, what conversely is the Malays contribution to the GDP. Because of this same law, many Malays own companies in name only and make no contribution to the growth of that company, so it begs the question what percentage of the contribution of Malays to the growth of a country and its GDP is in name only.

Finally, the majority of govnt employees are Malays where they by and large make little contribution to a country's GDP. While a larger percentage of Chinese work for private companies, this would suggest that Chinese make a larger contribution to the private sector and therefore GDP. This is even taking into account that by law companies must have a minimum percentage of Malay employees, making one wonder how many of these are employees in name only. Also since the Chinese have the greatest wealth they tend to spend more and invest more, leading to a greater contribution to the GDP.

Before posting any so called statistics please make sure they are firstly accurate and that their interpretation is accurate, otherwise you just look like an idiot. And for those that agree with him, like everything else in life be critical of what other people say before simply agreeing with them.

I don't know what the percentage of Chinese there are in Thailand but in Indonesia Chinese make up <5% of the population. It is not the raw numbers that matter with regard to the impact a community makes but the percentage of the overall population, which in Malaysia is still 20-25%.

I don't know where you get your data on GDP per capita but this data suggests that your data is wrong http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/drabble.malaysia

Its obvious in 1973, Malaysia's GDP per capita is double that of Thailand and 2.5 times that of Indonesia. In 1990, Malaysia's GDP per capita is 1.5 times that of Thailand and still 2.5 times that of Indonesia. Compared to Singapore, Malaysia's GDP per capita has fallen further behind, in 1973 Singapore's GDP per capita was about 1.7 times that of Malaysia, in 1990, it was 2.5, in 2006 it was 5.6 according to these statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...nal)_per_capita. According to these same statistics Malaysia's GDP per capita was 1.8 that of Thailand and 3.7 times that of Indonesia in 2006.

Not knowing what the percentage of Chinese there are in Thailand its obvious that the countries with the largest Chinese population by percentage has had a greater growth in GDP per capita.

What statistics do you have to suggest how Chinese make their money in Malaysia or their contribution to the GDP? If it wasn't for the discriminatory law in Malaysia that says all companies in Malaysia have to be at least 50% owned by Malays, what conversely is the Malays contribution to the GDP. Because of this same law, many Malays own companies in name only and make no contribution to the growth of that company, so it begs the question what percentage of the contribution of Malays to the growth of a country and its GDP is in name only.

Finally, the majority of govnt employees are Malays where they by and large make little contribution to a country's GDP. While a larger percentage of Chinese work for private companies, this would suggest that Chinese make a larger contribution to the private sector and therefore GDP. This is even taking into account that by law companies must have a minimum percentage of Malay employees, making one wonder how many of these are employees in name only. Also since the Chinese have the greatest wealth they tend to spend more and invest more, leading to a greater contribution to the GDP.

Before posting any so called statistics please make sure they are firstly accurate and that their interpretation is accurate, otherwise you just look like an idiot. And for those that agree with him, like everything else in life be critical of what other people say before simply agreeing with them.

You were taking someone personal website note who did not put things quite right, yet he wrote a lot of facts about big leap achievement by Malays.

The GDP per capita chart from World Bank shows clearly in 1975: Philippines GDP per capita is higher than Malaysia, Indonesia or Thailand and Singapore is already quite exceptional high at that year above all the countries.
Only after 1970's, Malaysia above both Indonesia and Thailand, and only in 1981 Malaysia overtook Phlippines.

I think you knew it but you were trying to deceit yourself or too stupid or too shocked by the facts, but whether you non-Malays like it or not, Malays progress rapidly, especially since 1990 and onward.

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/economics/document...gures,_2006.pdf

I have explained about chinese who made money on retailing stores and stalls why not contributing positively toward nation incomes.

You are the bigger idiot, look at your own chart.

In your post you quote GDP per capita in the chart you quote its GDP per capita PPP which is Purchasing Power Parity ie its wealth of an individual in relation to what he can buy in his own country and does not reflect the relative wealth of an individual in that country vs an individual in another country which is what GDP per capita compares. Furthermore in the above post and your previous post you quote GDP per capita and not GDP per capita PPP. So my referances are the ones which are correct and yours are clearly wrong.

Don't be so arrogant to assume that someone else is wrong before making sure that you are right. You need to be more dilligent in your own research. You are the one who is "decietful or too stupid or too shocked by the facts".

By the way GDP does not reflect national income but in simple terms is the relative wealth of that country, it includes exports but also includes investment and consumer spending. So if you had a hairdressing shop as long as people were spending money in that shop they would be contributing to the GDP. So in otherwords any company that is generating revenue is contributing to the GDP. Know what you are talking about before simply making comments about it, otherwise in trying to look smart you look really stupid.

By the way in a previous post you claim that Petronas contributes 20% of the GDP in Malaysia, could you please show me where you got this statistic or like your other posts did you pull this figure out of your @$$ again.

By the way in a previous post you claim that Petronas contributes 20% of the GDP in Malaysia, could you please show me where you got this statistic or like your other posts did you pull this figure out of your @$$ again.

Look at your own stupidity, you took a drabble from someone personal webnote who highly praise Malays but just not put gdp/capita statistic not in quite right way. And you take that gdp/capita stats of personal drabble like a hungry dog eating hot feces.

I refuted you by accurate datas from World Bank and you replied to me by name calling...that... I am stupid and trying acting smart... Hohohoho, you non-Malays so desperate...Why do you not just send email to World Bank ask them to change the stats making lower gdp/capita for Malaysia now and change the chart in 1970's to put Malaysia in much higher gdp starting point than other countries If this will make you feel better? why you blame someone who trying to eductae your thick skull? LOL.

And you were trying to deny the facts that data by telling me that chart from WorldBank is PPP instead of nominal.
Lets's see whether it is PPP or nominal, Malaysia GDP/capita now is double than Thailand, and 3 times even 4 times than Indonesia and Philippines.
I used GDP/capita nominal before as bench mark how Malays leap and move forward and widen the gap in recent years with less chinese. With using GDP/capita PPP heck Malaysia's figure is even look better NOW compare to Thailand, Indonesia and Philippines. Look at this way; Thailand political and economics are controlled by chinese descent in Thailand, Indonesia during Soeharto used to be controlled by chinese, until anti-chinese riot in 1998 that make hundred of thousands left. But still Malaysia is perform better and raising the gap and left those countries further.
I feel pity to you chinese, Malays progress rapidly in economic lately, especially when your number in Malaysia become less. We are not talking about Malays technological advance yet.
Why should I entertain you for Petronas figure if data from World Bank you think coming from my @$$, idiot.

Another thread ...yet...dedicated to bashing Malaysian Malays for the so-called discrimination against Malaysian Chinese....started by..yet...another Malaysian Chinese!!

Don't you all the Malaysian Chinese.... or ex-Malaysian Chinese.....ever get tired of arguing about the same f-cking issue?? You guys have started more than half a dozen threads, under different names, all dedicated to the same "basi" issue??

Let's discuss HUMUHUMUNUKUNUKUAPU'A for once!! I'm just getting sick and tired of responding to all these pukimak whinings and rantings by Malaysian Chinese against Malays of Malaysia!!!