"the extreme act of violation of international law"...Like the massacre of millions of Asians at the hands of the imperial Japanese army..then the stubborn denial of such acts for 50+ years..Does he mean that kind of "extreme violation"?

US will never apologize for dropping Nukes on Japan, in fact it was Japan who provoked war with US.

To apology is to acknowledge certain things, beside the Japanese was not exactly humane when fighting the American. If Japan have the bomb during the war, I highly doubt their hesitation to deploy it.

Tit-for-tat. This is more or less Japan's retaliation for the Resolution 39-2 passed by the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs. Predictably, none of these are going to go anywhere, since both of them are going to simply ignore each other on the issues.

"You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
"No. You apologize first."
...

at least 10% of those died in the nuke explosions were ethnic koreans.

Not going to happen

Never going to happen.

We still celebrate Victory over Japan day.

Japanese bombed naval base, American bomb city to kill mostly civilians.

nagasaki & hiroshima were home of top Japanese naval bases.

including military hardware factories

US is not going to apologize, and no regret either. Only irrationality that could be debated is dropping more than one. Why was the second bomb dropped? Russia was involved as well.

more germans died in the firebombing of dresden by the US than the combined death toll of hiroshima and nagasaki. and dresden was only one of the german cities targeted for firebombing (a highly indiscriminant, but highly destructive) campaigns. the us hasn't even so much as lifted a finger on the issue, let alone apologize for the massive civilian casualties. and germany didn't even provoke war on the US; it was obliged into war because of the tripartite pact with japan.

Important army depot was the reasoning behind Hiroshima. The other recommendations were Kyoto, Yokohama, Kokura Arsenal and Niigata. Got to love the reasoning behind choosing Kyoto

6. Status of Targets

A. Dr. Stearns described the work he had done on target selection. He has surveyed possible targets possessing the following qualification: (1) they be important targets in a large urban area of more than three miles in diameter, (2) they be capable of being damaged effectively by a blast, and (3) they are unlikely to be attacked by next August. Dr. Stearns had a list of five targets which the Air Force would be willing to reserve for our use unless unforeseen circumstances arise. These targets are:

(1) Kyoto - This target is an urban industrial area with a population of 1,000,000. It is the former capital of Japan and many people and industries are now being moved there as other areas are being destroyed. From the psychological point of view there is the advantage that Kyoto is an intellectual center for Japan and the people there are more apt to appreciate the significance of such a weapon as the gadget. (Classified as an AA Target)

(2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focussing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target. (Classified as an AA Target)

(3) Yokohama - This target is an important urban industrial area which has so far been untouched. Industrial activities include aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries. As the damage to Tokyo has increased additional industries have moved to Yokohama. It has the disadvantage of the most important target areas being separated by a large body of water and of being in the heaviest anti-aircraft concentration in Japan. For us it has the advantage as an alternate target for use in case of bad weather of being rather far removed from the other targets considered. (Classified as an A Target)

(4) Kokura Arsenal - This is one of the largest arsenals in Japan and is surrounded by urban industrial structures. The arsenal is important for light ordnance, anti-aircraft and beach head defense materials. The dimensions of the arsenal are 4100' x 2000'. The dimensions are such that if the bomb were properly placed full advantage could be taken of the higher pressures immediately underneath the bomb for destroying the more solid structures and at the same time considerable blast damage could be done to more feeble structures further away. (Classified as an A Target)

(5) Niigata - This is a port of embarkation on the N.W. coast of Honshu. Its importance is increasing as other ports are damaged. Machine tool industries are located there and it is a potential center for industrial despersion. It has oil refineries and storage. (Classified as a B Target)

(6) The possibility of bombing the Emperor's palace was discussed. It was agreed that we should not recommend it but that any action for this bombing should come from authorities on military policy. It was agreed that we should obtain information from which we could determine the effectiveness of our weapon against this target.


The figures for the bombing of Dresden range from 25,000 to 300,000 though the historians seem to be going with the 25,000 to 35,000 range. Whereas the immediate deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thought to be from 110,000 to 145,000 and the deaths in Hiroshima alone possibly exceeding 200,000 after five years.

You're right except that Dresden deaths were about 35,000 I heard from several sources although there are some higher estimates depending on your source. Some consider this a war crime siince there wasn't many military target and lots of refugees. I though Hiroshima and nagasaki combined deaths was about 200,000 but many died later. But I know that bombing deaths for Germany throughout the war was several hundred thousand.

who knows ? Maybe USA will Kowtow to the mighty Japanese Yen and apologize.

I also want Austria, Hungary, and Serbia to apologize to the rest of Europe and the world for dragging everybody to hell with them. Likely hood is of course, nil. I honestly don't see the point.

Mushroom, i hate to say this but you supposedly Japanese or i feel sad for your race really farking sarks, you claimed that japan bombed the naval base and then US bombed your farking precious civillians and yeah you forgot what der fark you farking did to china man i farking hate such bustards

Is it so blardy shameful to first take a look at yourself in the mirror ,and does an apology kills?Just farking admit that everyone sarked at WW2 .I face it, being a chinese myself i realise that the chinese sort of brought or should i say created this opportunity for the sino japanese war to take place and i dont totally blame the Japanese but on the other hand ok fine just think it that way imagine japan was china and china was japan. I mean since that god dammed thing is long over why not just apologise for once and then never bring this thing up again

Oops, I didn't read Takashi's post right above mine. Sorry if it seemed I just repeated his post, hahaha.

japanese have too much pride.. so apologizing to the u.s thats a big no.
U.S.. they dont care, even if bush or anybody else apologize, don't belive it..



somebody said the 2nd bomb was dropped cuz russia.. i'd have to disagree with this.. imo the reason the 2nd was dropped cuz the japan gov was being a DOUCHE, he'd rather have his people suffer than surrender.

Japan practiced biological warfare, something far more cruel than the atom bombs. If practicing biological warfare is fair game then so are nuclear bombs.

So did the US.

I havent read the replies to this yet, but oh gods !!! yeah how can prez bush appologise for what someone else did anyway? (as if he would in the first place) oh I can see that now
"err why yes...uhmm We appologised for the utter, unneccesary descimation our forfathers inflicted on your people...so glad you are buying into our materialism and culture !" ??? The us knew about pearl harbor before it happend... personally I think the gov just wanted to make an example of a country for the others to see. Disgusting, there is no way to appologise for such an act.

They're not even sorry, so why apologize?

Mencius asked, "When one soldier retreats 100 paces, and the other retreats 50 paces, does the latter have the right to laugh at the former?"

The wise king said "No, for he would have ran 100 paces as well, it is just that he has failed to do so".

I don't know about the first but as for the latter does it really make a difference if the person is a civilian or not when they were lied to about what they were going to take part in and sometimes not even given a choice about it? I don't think so.


Suijen understands my point.

That's not what I'm referring to.
The tuskegee experiment wasn't biological warfare.

lol you don't understand the point.

the U.S should of dropped 10 more atom bombs on japan for all the atrocities and murders they committed against millions of innocent people.

The U.S should never apologize since japan was the instigator and they are not even ounce of remorseful to this day.

The atomic bombing on japan was one of the greatest things to happen in history to stop the evil japanese imperial war machines.

Do you live under a rock?

The atomic bombings are what I call poetic justice. Thanks to the atom bombs, Korea was freed from Japanese Imperialism.

you sure about that,,,,, it seems we do like flinging bombs all over the place. We even dumped some here on our own soil "testing' or ''accident' or some such thing.
evil hu?
you sure you don't have a thinking problem?
war machines? don't make me laugh ! How many people have suffered cause the us gov decides on its most recent bought of propaganda regarding what ever military opporation they feel the need to enact.
do you even know what our current war is about? I mean besides the aquistion of oil and forcing their gov. to mirror ours and all that.... you should research all that stuff...
evil? all japanese are evil?
that would mean that all brits are evil... (china and india)
and all the us is evil (oh wow should I even go though all that garbage?)
All arabs are evil ? (HI !!! How's it going ???)
Race and Nationality does not indicate good and evil my ignorant child
Its a personality trait.
I can't force my gov. to behave or be nice. I would then be considered working against the gov... probably imprisoned.... or some such thing, actually according to a pamphlet a friend of mine gave me the other day regarding 'terrorism' I'm (technically) considered one.
Funny how that works.
what you think amarica has never nor ever does commit attrocaties to the innocent? open your eyes.
(rt now Im thinking of the lax laws regarding domestic violence and how many women die as a result, and y a know if she fights back, she goes to jail... happens all the time. I have seen it get so bad to where young boys had to kill thier own father so that he wouldnt hurt thier sister or mother any more. .. everyone knew what was going on, but due to beurocratic bull ..ehmmm nothing was done. This is of course on a local level. However, it has its place in the grand sceme of things does it not?)
Evil starts with one person deciding to be so and spreading the wealth, before you talk about evil and generalizing it you should take a look at your own neighborhood/town/city.

What is sorry going to do anyways?. NOTHING. If someone has to apologize though, I think both of them have to do it. The US have to apologize for releasing such tremendous power and the Japanese have to apologize to the US and the other victims of their military wrath, like philippines, korea, china etc...

the imperialism was bound to end eventually near the end of WWII. The atomic bomb just made it lot more faster.

While I agree that there really isn't any way to apologize for something like that... by this particular argument, it's useless for China and Korea to be clamoring for apologies from Japan because it's been a long time and the people who were truly responsible for the atrocities committed there are (majority, at least) no longer in any position to be apologizing. That is *not* to say that I don't think the victims of the atrocities deserve an apology, but there's a strange double standard. The extremist Chinese and Korean factions yelp for apologies while gleefully shouting that Japan has no right to an apology from the United States--or that Japan deserved much worse. They bluster about human rights and innocent civilian lives--do you really think that the atomic bombs only affected the Japanese military? Or do you think that Japanese civilians didn't deserve the same consideration as your own? Do I really think the U.S. should apologize? *shrug* I wouldn't believe it, so it's a moot point on my part. (By the same token, I believe that no matter how much Japan sincerely apologized to Korea and China, there would always be people who wouldn't believe it and would continue to demonize Japan and its people.)

I'm not defending the Japanese Imperial here, their cruelty is beyond words, but those who say Japanese provoke the US into war should go back to history class again.

Stop watching Hollywood $hit and try to find some actual fact.

Pearl Harbor.

There's an actual fact.

You goto into a Bears den and poke a Sleeping bear, dont get made if it gets up and fu-king eats you!

.... and where does japan's apology for atrocious actions against korea and other asian nations come into play?

why does japan even deserve an apology from the US under this anology?

and plus it was japan who started the war after all... pearl harbor was bad, and hiroshima and nagasaki were merely justification.

The fact is Japan was offered the opprotunity to surrender rather than be bombed. They opted not to. 1 Bomb was dropped and still after such devestation opted not to. Even after the second bomb the Japanese Military tried to stop the surrender even tho they knew that they were soundly defeated. In end The US is guilty of being the only nation in history to drop a nuke.
And what of Japans guilt? The leadership willingly choose to accept a second bomb.
Japan had its own Nuke program well underway. Is there any doubt in anyones mind that if Japan had developed their nukes first that they would have used them as soon as possible? What would the targets have been?
China? The filipines? a suicide sub into sanfrancisco?
What of germany? Any doubt that they would have used the bomb?
Lets not forget if the war had lasted much longer the USSR would have wanted their pound of flesh from Japan. I think its accurate to say that the USSR would not have been quite as generous to a defeated japan as was the USA. Look no further than E. Germany for proof.

You made some great points. But I really dont think the japanese are making excuses or trying to say that what they did were not evil though.

Lets examine this clearly, what would have been preferable here? The Allies launching Operation Downfall with possibly hundreds of thousands if not millions of civilians killed in the crossfire and god knows how many soldiers would have been killed. And please don't give that BS that the Japanese were a defeated populace, they took fanaticism to the extreme, large elements would have fought to the death. The Atomic bomb was neccessary evil, and frankly it was total war; Truman merely made the decision of choosing the lives of US servicemen over Japanese civilians, neither he or the US gov are responsible for the stubborness of the Japanese government.

America didn't have to invade Japan. They already destroyed Japan's capability to project power outside of Japan. There was no good reason to harm Japan any further or even drop the atomic bombs.

US could have made a negotiated peace treaty instead.

Yeah but US defeated Japan's ability to threaten the US or any other country already. Just like how in the first Gulf War, the Americans ejected the Iraqis from Kuwait but left Iraq alone. US still won without the need for hurting Iraqi civilians by attacking Iraq.

Its really hard to say. If the american didnt nuke them thousands of more american soldiers would have lost their life cause they would have fought to the last man. They probably would have killed all the POW's that was brought to japan. It was a smart military move but morally wrong. And if they didnt invade japan, I dont think they would have surrendered. They didnt surrender after the 1st bomb was dropped let alone not invading them.

Actually it was the US who provoked the war with japan. The US had a treay with japan to supply them with metal and other materials in asia in their war against the allies Britain and USSR(at that time US was neutral). Roosevolt needed an excuse to enter the war as Britain was losing it quite badly to the Germans, Italians, and they didn't want Germany Japan and Italy become superpowers. So he deliberately broke the treaty and stopped all trade with them. This effectively meant japan was hugely handicapped in their war in Asia, so they decided if the USA will not abide by its treaty they would take the resources by force. Hence they planned the attack on pearl harbour, with orders that if the americans found out about the attack they should cancel it. Roosevolt knew the attack was coming on pearl harbour, there are documents signed by him acknowledgin transmissions they picked up from the japanese about the planned attack. But he decided to ignore them as the US public did not want to enter into another european war. He knew they needed to be attacked otherwise the US public would not support the war, so he let the attack happen, and entered WW2. Also by the end before the bombs were dropped japan was negotiating a surrender treaty with the US, they agreed to surrender completely apart from a few conditions such as not allowing foreign military bases in japan (okinawa and we have seen what is happening their with the rapes), not changing the political economic structure etc. US wanted an unconditional surrender so they bombed them twice and japan gave it.

Also the US wanted to bomb kyoto first i think, due to the maximum number of civilian casualties possible through it, but weather over kyoto was quite bad on the day of the bombing so they went to one of the other smaller cities.


All wrong. Japan as far as i know had no nuclear program, it was only germany and USA who were following a nuclear program, and germany were a decade behind as they had mistakenly taken the wrong course on the program. A lot of countries did not even believe a nuclear bomb was even possible theorhetically, hence the big catch up Britain, France, USSR, all played after the bombings, and why britain and USA nearly became enemies over it.

Yes and no, US wanted an excuse to enter the war, they would have sooner or later, even if it meant lying as in the vietnam war (where they lied about a US warhsip being attacked by the north vietnamese). They manipulated the japanese into it, so it depends really by what you mean with the word start. Japan, germany and Italy at all costs did not want the US to enter the war as it would have turned the tide in Britains favour as in WW1. Similar Britain was doing everything in its power to get the americans involved as they did in WW1 by faking stories how germany was plannning the invasion of the US and had been attacking US ships etc and other propoganda stories.

In all the middle of this war between the social elites of all these countries, the average joe in america, japan, ussr, france, britain, italy suffered as did the people of the lands the war was fought in, egypt, affrica, middle east, china, etc. The rich elite sat in their countryside residences and sent their people out to fight a war for them as always, in the name of liberty, freedom, god, democracy, justice etc. When in truth it was always about imperialism. Germany, Japan, Italy wanted it, colonies and an empire. Britain and France didn't want to give it up to them. USA wanted to become the worlds superpower and replace Britain, and USSR wanted to destroy capitalism and create an empire of communism. Whilst all the 3rd world countries just wanted to be left alone, but weren't allowed to be, as they were the prize.

Japan initally was the US's colony but they turned it all round in the civil war near the end of the 19th century, and with the help of the british in ww1 had become quite strong. Strong enough to get their own ambitions of getting colonies. In their imitation of the west, they ended up becoming an enemy of the west and committing the same type of crimes as them. So in my mind all these governments are the same and just as guilty of murder, its just the people who are innocent.




Is that a real mencius quote? That's a good one. Reminds me of this one from the middle east.



The person who is willing to take one life unjustly, is just as willing to take the lives of a million people, if given the opportunity. Similar he who saves one persons life, is a hero who would be willing to save a millions peoples live if given the opportunity. I always remember this quote, it struck me as being really nice about how the means never justify the end. You can't sacrifice even one life unjustly even if it means saving a millions lives.

Yeah Japan did start WW2 by attacking China and other asian countries at the time anyway.

It was also Japan that started the war in the Pacific during the Marco Polo bridge "incident." The attack on Pearl Harbor was the United State's official entry into the war in the Pacific, a war which had already started between China and Japan.