Which last name of vietnamese do you think is related to China.
Truong
Ly
hoang
Ho
Dang
Le
Do I miss spelling ?

Le
Ho
Dang
Ly

probably all of them

tran = chan

trang = chang

Lam = Lim , Lam, Lum

Vuong = Wong or Wang

imma say all of em 2

Many people with surname Nguyen were Ly.

Are you saying Nguyen are also Chinese related?

What is next? Vietnam is a province of China just like Taiwan.

Every last name is from China... That's pretty sad but true.

it's kind of like how most mexicans have Spanish names, because they were once conquered by Spain

Big deal. Back in the Spring Autumn, Warring States of China, people changes their name according to the land they moved to. China is a big culture melting pot and thus every bit of culture in different parts of China & surrounds contribute to it, Vietnam is no different, so the effect is rather mutual even in early history. For example, the technology of repeating crossbow of Âu Lạc, an invention of Cao Lỗ, a general of An Dương Vương, was transferred to Triệu Đà (Zhao To) and the later Han acquired that technology by conquering Nam Viet kingdom (later known as Chu ko nu, an improved version).We need to differentiate between culture & nation/state. China back then was a group of different tribes fighting among themselves, and Vietnam was no different.
Well, you can see the likes of names: iPod, Coke, Mickey mouse, @, web, etc. in China now, or at least some Chinese have tried to register their kids with those names. Another note, Chist, Christian, etc. are these middle-eastern names?

mary kay m. le

hmmmmm sounds okay to u?

It's true.

yeah, large portion of China once belonged to Vietnam that explains why. China should be grateful. I still consider people in Guangxi, Guangdong, etc. are part of our brethren, lost children of Vietnam.

The rest of you g@@ks need to listen to this wise man. God dammit!!

vietnam get independent from china since defeat the mongolian at 13 centure.
thanks to mongolian.

LOL hey there lil iPod

China + Vietnam are like brothers and sisters.
Vietnamese people once were Chinese and some vice versa.

hmmmm, more like around 900 century AD, that was when Vietnam gained independence as the the later Tang's Dynasty was getting rather weak.

Yeah they are just cousins now.

nope. as recorded by vietnamese historians, never in a millenium did the vietnamese people ever consider themselves chinese.

More like, Big Communist Bro and Little Communist Bro. lol!

Who's here want to be Chinese? Raise your hand, don't be shy.

I don't like guessing...

I want Chinese to be Vietnamese, mwahaha

Ly

Vietnamese are Vietnamese. Chinese are chinese... you guys are guys are dumb enough to claim yourself Chinese then I have nothing else to say. Back then Vietnamese share the same characters with the Chinese, as well as Japanese and Korean. France gave us latin characters.

As you can see, most of the remarks are being sarcastic. And not to mention the person that made up this topic is probably chinese

This is true but Vietnam was existed in world map before that. We were invaded by China. However, the Mogolian prince was killed in Vietnam regardless of what you read online or what world history class teach you (the chinese wrote it).

According to American's World history class, you're right! And also according to American's world history class, were were all blacks...! remember Lucy 4.6 million years ago? She was found in Ethiopia, and the Africans migrated to China! Therefore, Chinese are blacks! So what? We are all blacks!? So who claimed Vietnamese was one Chinese!? Chinese! The submit their version to world history book. If Vietnam was part of China, I guess China would want you unit us like how they are temping for Taiwan.

From what I remember, Vietnam was recognized 4,000 yeras before B.C.. Learning technology advance from neighbors are common in human evolution. you can't say we are bunch of chinese just because we eat rice or jsut because we borrowedd their characters for our writting. In fact, we get diarhia from eating too much beans or potatoes.

We were never 'cousins' or 'related.' China has been trying to invade us through out history. There were times they were suceeded. Other times, none of them to get go back home. China is more like a thread to its neighbors than a good friend. Just because we both are on the road to reformming doesnt mean we get along. But they do have more power than us for now.

Absolute not true! There is a reason why Viets had to develope Chữ Nôm and the current latin based written language. Chinese scripts have no way of pronouncing words correctly. There is no real way to write Nguyen in chinese. Nguyen is definately a Viet name.

Nguyen la ho

I think the surname "Lam" can either be Chinese or Vietnamese

It's common sense people. Think about it.
Many last names just happen to exist in different ethnic groups.
Just because they sound and write the same way, it doesn't mean they originated from the same source.

Just take one case for instance. The last name "Lee". Both exist in Westerners and as well as Easterners.
Would you consider Ang Lee related to Tommy Lee or Robert E Lee ?
Would you consider any person has the last name Lee in China tracing its root back to the Western world ? and vice versa ?

If a Vietnamese person has the last name Tao, does that mean the person has Chinese descendent? I dont have the last name, btw.

grrr. Tofu :p
Chinese is a vague term to define an ethnic so the person with that last name is not likely a descent of Qin state . There are 3 possiblities for Tao last name: Vietnamese family with last names changed due to change in dynasties (or commit a crime in politics or whatever reason ), an ethnic minority (Từ, Cao, Sơn, Thạch, etc. ) or a Cantonese. The people who migrate most from China are Cantonese people. These people are part of Bach Viet and share the Dong Son culture in ancient time with the Vietnamese people originated in Red River Delta so Tao is still a Viet last name. By the way, many Vietnamese last names have disappeared like Yết Kiêu, Dã Tượng, so maybe Tao is a rare Viet family name.

PS: Tofu, you need to stop running into the Hwang Woo Suk hive of greatness.

What do you mean by that?

or else you will be under attack of mass zerglings. Remember, each larva can produce 11 zerglings plus with the support of defiler to cover the truth
OK. Chill out

Yeah this Tofu guy needs to stop b!tching at the Koreans. It's plain old pathetic on the internet.

There were a lot of intermarriages between vietnamese and chinese, thoughout the history. Most of vietnamese last names have chinese versions, or vice versa.

From what I know:

Le=Lai
Ly=Li, Lee
Duong=Yang
Truong=Zhang, Cheung
Hoang=Wong, Huang?
Nguyen=Ruan
Tran=Chen
Luong=Leung
Trieu=Zhao
Ho=Hu
Dao=Tao
Luu=Liu
Ha=He
Quach=?
Chau=Chu
Dang=Deng
Phan=?
Pham=?
Lu, La=?

and many more.

what about Dong?

phan

lmao All Vietnamese last names have some corresponding Chinese last names, but that doesn't mean we are Chinese, we are Vietnamese! Our ancestors walked away from the gigantic middle kingdom to preserve their Viet/Yue identity after more than 1000 years being part of China.

Actually, our Vietnamese ancestors had to fight for freedom and indepedence. They did not walk away or run away.

lol what I meant was they broke away from China, not run away from China

Sorry but when did Vietnam invented the Crossbows? Follow to Wikipedia, the earliest crossbow that can be found in Asia is as follow,

Repeating Crossbow
==================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow

"Repeating crossbows have a long history, with the oldest accurate written record dating back to the Han Dynasty (ca. 200 BC-220 AD) in China. The repeating crossbow (Chinese: 諸葛弩; pinyin: Zhūgě nǔ; Wade-Giles: Chu-ke nu; literally "Zhuge crossbow"; sometimes mistranscribed as Chu-ko-nu) is an extremely simple piece of equipment. It is claimed to have been invented by Chinese strategist Zhuge Liang (181-234 A.D.), which is arguable since the earliest drawings of the weapon have been found from the buried library of Chu, dating all the way back to 250 B.C....."

History Of Crossbow,
==================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_crossbows

"Crossbows were used as antipersonnel and siege weapons. The Chinese developed the repeating crossbow with an automatic reloading system.

The earliest documention of a Chinese crossbow is in scripts from the 4th–3rd century BC attributed to the followers of Mozi. This source refers the use of a giant crossbow catapult to the 6th to 5th century BC, corresponding to the late Spring and Autumn Period. The date is several centuries before the appearance of the manuscript. As a result the dating from the source can not be used without doubt to determine when the use of crossbows started in Chinese history, although the age of the source can.[9] Sun Tzu's influential book The Art of War (first appearance dated in between 500 BC to 300 BC[10]) refers in chapter V to the traits and in XII to the use of crossbows.[11] One of the earliest reliable records of this weapon in warfare is from an ambush, the Battle of Ma-Ling in 341 BC. By the 200s BC, the crossbow (nǔ, 弩) was well developed and quite widely used in China. Several remains of them have been found among the soldiers of the Terracotta Army in the tomb of Emperor Qin Shi Huang (260-210 BC).[12]....."

*cough*

First, do you know that wikipedia is not a very good source to sign? Anyone can edit it even me.

Second, anywhere from North Vietnam up would be called China at that time, and any person who lived from North Vietnam up would be called Chinese at that time.

The word "crossbow" in Chinese probably have Austric origin. The character 弩 is read nu3 in Mandarin, other Chinese dialects have similar readings. But in Old Chinese, that character was read nhāʔ, which sounds extremely similar to the word ná in Vietnamese which means cross-bow (it is significant to note that ná is a Thuần Việt 淳越 world, not a Hán Việt 漢越 world). The etymology for the character 弩 is as follow
Preclassic Old Chinese: nhāʔ
Classic Old Chinese: nhā́
Western Han Chinese: nhā́
Eastern Han Chinese: nhā́
Early Postclassic Chinese: nhṓ
Middle Postclassic Chinese: nhṓ
Late Postclassic Chinese: nhṓ
Middle Chinese: nó

Look up any other source from linguists, they would give you similar readings. Most linguists right now agree that Chinese borrowed the word 弩from Vietnamese or any other Bai Yue tribe. Since they borrow the word "cross-bow" at the first place, there was no way they invented the cross-bow.

I searched lots of web site, and follow to the source that I can get, for example,
http://www.worldcrossbow.com/history.html



Can you give me some reference that Vietnamese invented the crossbow?

Scholars:

There is a Vietnamese ledendary story about the magic crossbow that every student learns in Vietnamese school.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_D%C6%B0%C6...V%C6%B0%C6%A1ng


The Legend of Cổ Loa Thành and the Magic Crossbow

[edit] Cổ Loa Thành and Âu Lạc
After Thục Phán defeated the last Hùng Vương King and ascended to the throne as An Dương Vương, he renamed Văn Lang to Âu Lạc and established Co Loa Citadel (古螺) as the new capital. He saw the strategic and geographic importance of Cổ Loa. On two of its sides, Co Loa was surrounded by impenetrable mountains and forests. There was also a river flowing by. No one knows why did An Dương Vương favored the spiral, shell-like shape of Cổ Loa Thành, but legend has it that its construction was extremely tough, and difficult to complete. Each time it seemed it was almost done, it was undone at night by a coalition of spirits which were thought to be allied to the son of a previous king.


[edit] The Legend of Cổ Loa and the Magic Crossbow
An Dương Vương burnt incense, prayed, made offerings, and evoked all the gods of those days to help him. One night, in a dream, a very, very old and venerable man with long, white hair came to him and told him the only person who could help him out of this conundrum was a golden turtle that lived somewhere around Cổ Loa.

A few days later, while wandering in a boat on the river and thinking about the meaning of his dream, a gigantic golden turtle appeared suddenly at the surface of the water. The golden turtle told An Dương Vương that he would need one of its claws in order to accomplish anything in his life. Pulling out one of its claws and throwing it to An Dương Vương, the turtle vanished.

An Dương Vương had Cao Lỗ, his weaponry engineer, build a crossbow incorporating this claw. It is said a single arrow shot from this crossbow of the Golden Tortoise could kill hundreds, even thousands of enemies. Indeed right after obtaining this claw, An Dương Vương saw his fortunes change. His capital started taking shape. His kingdom prospered and soon was coveted by neighboring states. Among one of those who coveted his territory was Zhao Tuo (Triệu Đà in Vietnamese), a Qin general under the reign of Qin Shi Huang and his successor. For a period of ten years around 217 BCE to 207 BCE, Triệu Đà attempted many invasions to conquer Âu Lạc state, but failed each time due to An Dương Vương's military skills and defense tactics.


[edit] Triệu Đà's Scheme
Triệu Đà (趙陀), having been beaten several times, devised a new plan. Keeping to himself that it was just a temporary ploy to buy time, he negotiated a peace treaty with Âu Lạc (甌雒/甌駱) state. He set out to determine where lay the strength and strategies of his foe. He even went so far as to propose marriage between An Dương Vương’s daughter, Princess Mỵ Châu (Mei Zhou) and his son Trọng Thủy (Zhong Shu'i). In time Triệu Đà found out through his daughter-in-law Mỵ Châu that An Dương Vương had a magic crossbow that made him almost invincible. In reality, the secret military technology of bronzed-cast arrows with some kind of fire-attachment invention by the Âu Lạc state was one of their famous arsenals that was used against the Qin armies and soundly defeated them on many occasions in the past. Eventually, when Triệu Đà figured out a new scheme to infiltrate the war arsenal secrets and military tactics of Âu Lạc was when he told his son Trọng Thủy to sneak into his father-in-law's armory and steal this "magic crossbow", replacing it with a fake. Triệu Đà, with the magic crossbow in his hands, launched a final, decisive attack on his foe and in-law An Dương Vương.


[edit] The loss of Cổ Loa and the Magic Crossbow
Miraculously enough, Cổ Loa fortress fell into Triệu Đà's hands. For An Dương Vương this was a major disaster. He grabbed Mỵ Châu, his only daughter, and fled the scene of the battle. Riding on his horse with Mỵ Châu behind him he called out in despair, “What happened to my crossbow? It does not work anymore! Why? Why?” At that very moment, the giant golden turtle An Dương Vương had not seen for years and years, suddenly reappeared in the river. He replied to An Dương Vương, “The person responsible for this disaster, the enemy you are looking for, is sitting right behind you, your majesty!”

An Dương Vương reined in his horse and confronted his daughter, who was in tears. Angered, feeling betrayed by his daughter and son-in-law, the king slew his daughter (in a popular version of the tale he beheaded her). Then he jumped into the river with the giant golden turtle. Some say he drowned himself; some say his faithful servant the golden turtle took him to the depths of the river.

Trọng Thủy, searching for his beloved wife, arrived a few minutes later at the scene. The body of his beloved wife was lying in a pool of blood and his father-in-law was nowhere to be seen. In accordance with conjugal fidelity and devotion, he drew his sword and killed himself as well, in order to be with his wife forever and eternity.

Having achieved the defeat of his rival, Triệu Đà annexed the newly conquered territory to his own, ascended to the throne, and proclaimed himself a new emperor, founding the Triệu Dynasty (207 BCE-111 BCE).

Westerners study Chinese history from Chinese people, they got all the stuff about Qin Shi Huang and Warring States Period from Chinese. If Chinese historians wrote that they had the crossbow since 3th century BC then westerners would say that Chinese is the first one to invent the crossbow. But if they did invent the crossbow then why would they borrow the name for it from Austric languages? Secondly, like I said, North Vietnam was part of China hence anyone Viet at that time would be considered Chinese.

From Vietnamese history, the kingdom of Âu Lạc (甌貉 Ou Luo) first invented the crossbow, then Triệu Đà (趙陀) got it. He conquered and unified Âu Lạc 甌貉 and other states to become Nam Viêt (南越), which was later conquered by the Han dynasty.

Please try to understand and differenciate the meaning between legend and facts.


Im sorry but your source is unreliable and doesnt provide anything. And pardon for my lack of knowledge for history, can you give some reference during the time that crossbow has been invented that provide some details on north vietnam was under China?


That is what you said, It is not written in any historical fact. Perhaps it is tought in Vietnam school, but even if it is tought in Vietnam school, without any historical record or what so ever is very hard to convince people to believe it. Its like a legend or myth rather than a historical fact.

Please I respect your opinion, just that like I said without any written historical fact on somthing, its just hard to believe.

lol there must be a source somewhere, but I'm too lazy to look for it. But doesn't the fact the Chinese borrowed the word "crossbow" from another language show that Han people didn't invent it?

the legendary part of the story is that a Long Quy appeared and helped An Dương Vương made the crossbow and later carried him to the sea. However, Triệu Đà, An Dương Vương, Trọng Thủy were all real people in history and their names are recorded in ancient chinese history book as well.

if you really want to debate about history, this is not a good place for most people here seem to care about politics more than history. Why don't you visit chinahistoryforum and post up this question? I'm sure some wise people would give you a satisfactory answer.

btw, just the fact that you want "evidence" and "details" about North Vietnam was under China show that you don't know about history very well because anyone who's wise enough to enter a debate about Asian history should know this fact.