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Full Version: To malaysian: If you really a moslem, why you call us Indon?
Asia Finest Discussion Forum > Asian Culture > Malaysian Chat > Malaysian Serious Talk
mahatir
Reading this news:
http://www.bernama.com/cgi-bin/snni2/list_...ia/ma2410_7.txt

QUOTE
KUALA LUMPUR, Oct 24 (Bernama) -- Malaysians have no intention to ridicule their neighbours, Indonesians working in this country, by referring to them as "Indons".


As a moslem i couldn't understand how come a country who called them self as as islamic based country while they still called their neighbor by a word which is disliked by his neighbor?

Do they know how a moslem should call another? Even to non moslem we should not called somebody using a word disliked by him.

QUOTE
"They (Indonesians), including their top leaders and ministers, are highly sensitive about their citizens being called `Indons'," he added.


Ignoring our complaint are really an arrogant action for a neighboring country.
mahatir
May be this blog will give you more understanding:
http://www.myindo.com/story/241.asp

QUOTE
In reality however, most educated Indonesians would regard the term 'Indon' as degrading and insulting. 'Indon' has been considered by some to be as racist of a term as 'Chokin' (referring to Indonesian Chinese) or the very crude 'N*gga' (African-Americans). The worse part is we as Malaysians are not always aware that the term 'Indon' reeks of derogatory. This, unfortunately for us, translates as ignorance.
fadlee
whats the matter with all you indons??
theng
Before I came to this forum,I didn't even know Indonesians hate to be called "Indon" shrug.gif



and did u spell "muslim"wrongly deliberately just to insult muslims? icon_rolleyes.gif
kelantanese
i started not to call u guys indon since i know its annoyed u guys, same goes to my friends. maybe the one that calling u guys indon dont know u guys dislike been called like that
Majapahitans
here we go again..., "indon" thread reopened..... icon_rolleyes.gif

This is old-stinky-issue my friend maha....
Some of them are already knew that we despise being called "indon", yet some still deliberately use it...

Well occasionaly some people did it on purpose to irritate us (rite rico n fadlee..?), some "innocently" ignore this sentiments.
Terserah lah..... cappe dee....
pepoluan
QUOTE(theng @ Oct 27 2007, 12:11 AM) [snapback]3287225[/snapback]
Before I came to this forum,I didn't even know Indonesians hate to be called "Indon" shrug.gif
and did u spell "muslim"wrongly deliberately just to insult muslims? icon_rolleyes.gif

Who spelt "muslim" wrongly?

AFAIK, in the English language, "muslim" is spelt "moslem".

But I digress...
pepoluan
QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Oct 27 2007, 02:22 AM) [snapback]3287346[/snapback]
here we go again..., "indon" thread reopened..... icon_rolleyes.gif

This is old-stinky-issue my friend maha....
Some of them are already knew that we despise being called "indon", yet some still deliberately use it...

Well occasionaly some people did it on purpose to irritate us (rite rico n fadlee..?), some "innocently" ignore this sentiments.
Terserah lah..... cappe dee....


Well, to Malaysians, I can only say...

1. Stop mistreating Indonesian labor
2. Stop calling us "Indon" with contempt
3. Respect our citizens visiting your nice country (I am admitting that your country is nice... it's the people inside that isn't... well mostly)
4. Stop stealing our culture

Then we will be very happy to stop calling you MALINGsia.
triplex
QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Oct 27 2007, 05:22 AM) [snapback]3287346[/snapback]
here we go again..., "indon" thread reopened..... icon_rolleyes.gif

This is old-stinky-issue my friend maha....
Some of them are already knew that we despise being called "indon", yet some still deliberately use it...

Well occasionaly some people did it on purpose to irritate us (rite rico n fadlee..?), some "innocently" ignore this sentiments.
Terserah lah..... cappe dee....



..u got that right maja.. embarassedlaugh.gif i tried to avoid this thread because i was over it already.. but fyi, now i embraced the fact that indonesians don't like to be called indon and they should be called indo instead.
pancaindera
QUOTE(theng @ Oct 27 2007, 02:11 AM) [snapback]3287225[/snapback]
Before I came to this forum,I didn't even know Indonesians hate to be called "Indon" shrug.gif


Ya me too. So since then i kinda stop using that word. But sometimes it terkeluar la. But now never in front of INDOs. icon_smile.gif

I heard in Indo, the Chinese dont like to be called "Cina". Is this true?
Jaimu-Jaimu
Moving to serious discussion as per request. icon_redface.gif
---->
Protoculture
QUOTE
Well, to Malaysians, I can only say...

1. Stop mistreating Indonesian labor
2. Stop calling us "Indon" with contempt
3. Respect our citizens visiting your nice country (I am admitting that your country is nice... it's the people inside that isn't... well mostly)
4. Stop stealing our culture

Then we will be very happy to stop calling you MALINGsia.


Well, to Indonesian I can only counter-say ...

1. Stop sending your illegals immigrants that came here to become 'malings' in my country.
2. Stop burning our national flag
3. Have some self respect while talking things rationally ... Stop being irrational drones ..
4. Stop claiming shared cultural heritages as originally yours truly

Get that.
polisrichard
Orang Indonesia x suke dipanggil Indon??
Aku x tau plak,
Ni br tau,
Coursemate aku ade student Indonesian,
tp x pnh plak tegur bdak2 len pasal panggilan Indon ni
HangPC2
Short Term

Jarang Di Belai = Jablai......



senang....
Bhaskara
QUOTE(pancaindera @ Oct 27 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]3287854[/snapback]
Ya me too. So since then i kinda stop using that word. But sometimes it terkeluar la. But now never in front of INDOs. icon_smile.gif

I heard in Indo, the Chinese dont like to be called "Cina". Is this true?

Yes, that's why we change "orang keturunan Cina" to "orang keturunan Tionghoa". Even when refering to the country People's Republic of China, we stop using "Republik Rakyat Cina" and call it "Republik Rakyat Tiongkok" or "China" (English pronunciation).
Protoculture
QUOTE
Yes, that's why we change "orang keturunan Cina" to "orang keturunan Tionghoa". Even when refering to the country People's Republic of China, we stop using "Republik Rakyat Cina" and call it "Republik Rakyat Tiongkok" or "China" (English pronunciation).


That's in your country. Which really shows how the ethnic Chinese in both countries develop distinctly dissimilar ideals & later on tradition.

In MY, the Chinese are definitely proud with the term China. Our linguists once tried to borrow the term Tionghua from Indonesian vocabulary in 1970s, but the term never caught on with MY population. 'Cina' is much more easy & straight to the point as compared to 'Tionghua'.
Bhaskara
That is just an example how you should honor the wish of other people, if you haven't noticed.

Actually, Chinese Indonesians are fine with "China" (English pronounciation) but not with "Cina". They don't want to be addressed as "Cina", so now the correct way calling Indonesians of Chinese descends are "keturunan Tionghoa".

Is it so hard for you people to call us the way we are more comfortable hearing of? You already know that we hated to be called "Indons", yet you keep on calling us with that term.
renzokuken
how bout thai?is it ok?
fadlee
i talk to one of my dad's worker who lives in sumatra, the weird thing is he even called his countrymen as indon n quite happy with it.. you indons are just too sensitive and feels degrading by it.
hailer
I do not understand why they cannot be called 'Indon'. Is 'Indon' has a bad meaning in Indonesian language, or it sound funny from your point of view? 'Indon' is a term normally used in English newspaper in Malaysia to describe Indonesian national. It is just writing style in the newspaper to shorten the title of the article. Just like 'Aussi' for Autralian national, 'Britton' for British national, 'Kiwis' for New Zealand national, '_Jap' for Japanese, 'Pinoy' for Philippines national. In Malaysia, 'Indon' does not give any bad meaning. It is our language, and they have to accept this usage in Malaysia even thought it give bad meaning when translated to Indonesian language.
It is actually sort form to describe Indonesian citizen with English style.

Indon = Indo + n

Where:
Indo = Sort form of Indonesia.
n = national/citizen.

Why my Indonesian mate calls her friends as Indon too when she talking to me? That means the PRA or TKI are accept this. So why these wealthy Indonesians who have the internet access residing in Indonesia can not accept this, and feels been down graded? Do you rich and wealthy Indonesians feel that you have been down graded as TKI and PRA in Malaysia that have make you can not accept this term?

Some Indonesia words also have a bad meaning in Malaysia language, but we do not make it as serous issue.
Example: 'butuh' or 'membutuhkan' means '_ass hole' in Malaysia language. But we understand the actual usage is 'want', 'need' or 'require'. Others like 'pendatang haram' now has been changed to 'pendatang tanpa izin'.
You can call us as Malingsia or what ever you like because it your language. For us it has no meaning and we don't care how its sound.
renzokuken
funny theres a lot of restaurant used the word indo...have u heard instant noodle brand INDOmee?

however, if u put extra 'n' at the end...a lot of indonesian get pissed off....single letter make a lot of diff

it cant be helped if some people cant pronounce indo well...its because of thier accent
Crystallised Dream
This thread again...

I think that, in order to understand the usage of the word 'Indon' in Malaysia you will also have to look at how the word 'bule' is used in Indonesia... here I quote the part of a blog entry by an Australian living in Indonesia.

QUOTE
It's not that those who use it necessarily mean anything racist by it. 90% of the time in my particular context it is used quite innocently or naively (in the positive sense of the word). Fellow teachers and students use it in my presence. It's not their fault that they have been conditioned by society to use such a term. Nor am I necessarily offended when they use it. But that doesn't excuse the fact that when one examines it and similar labels closely, it is a label based on the colour of my skin and used to identify me or my child in situations where our race does not need identifying.

Bule itu lagi tersesat kayaknya... (That white guy looks lost)

Why the label? What's wrong with 'Orang itu... (That person)?

Wah..ada bayi bule...ada bayi bule!!! (There's a whitey baby...a whitey baby...)


Link to full article: http://ausdag.blogspot.com/2007/12/bule.html


You have to understand that not all Malaysians mean 'Indon' in a bad sense of the word either. Yes I am aware of some AF-ers who use the word 'Indon' (especially after they know what it means to Indonesians) just for flaming's sake, and indeed that is not commendable at all. But get out from AF, look at the local society and you'll see that we mostly use 'Indon' just for convenience's sake instead of having to pronounce a mouthful of 'orang Indonesia'. We use 'Indon' not just to address the Indonesian workers here but to address anything Indonesian in general - even for Indonesian celebrities that are a big hit among Malaysians. If you think we Malaysians only know Indonesians as foreign labourers, think again!

Ask a random Malaysian what 'Indon' means and there's a big chance he'll say 'Orang Indonesia lah.' He wouldn't specifically say 'Tenaga Kerja Indonesia' or 'pembantu rumah Indonesia' or 'buruh warga Indonesia', but just 'orang Indonesia' in general, which to him does not imply anything negative.

Another reason is because like the Indonesian usage of 'bule', we Malaysians have been conditioned to call Indonesians as 'Indons'. It simply does not mean anything negative to us. We've been calling Indonesians 'Indon' for decades and to reverse all that overnight is simply impossible. I suspect that the usage of 'Indon' is also due to the structure of the Malay language - you hardly find words or names that end with merely 'o' in our language. Which is why the term 'Indo' sounds strange and feels strange to the Malaysian tongue, simply because it's just not the way we pronounce things. In contrast, Indonesians are used to words and names that ends with the vocal 'o', so naturally to them 'Indo' is the best way to put it...

I think another reason why 'Indon' is still used is because we Malaysians are still not fully aware of what 'Indon' means to the Indonesians (don't bother about the Malaysians in AF, the larger portion is out there). So far I've only come across one Indonesian official from the Indonesian Consulate in Kuching (my city) that has bothered to address the issue publicly. I wouldn't have known if he had not said a thing either. And my friends, once by one person is not enough to create a big wave of change ...


But of course, I do urge all Malaysians (especially those in this forum) who are aware of this issue to stop calling our neighbours 'Indon', since we're no longer ignorant about it. Yes 'Indo' may sound strange and incomplete to our ears, but for the sake of neighbourly harmony we need to take initiative. We may be upset with some of the Indonesian forumers but we should still maintain a decent air and call them Indonesians or Indo the way they like it. So what if they call us 'malas' or 'Malingsia'? Let them! We did not respond to the Konfrontasi Indonesia with a Konfrontasi Malaysia and neither did we launch our own 'Basmi Indonesia' in response to their 'Ganyang Malaysia', so why should we start 'Indon'-ing them? Never reciprocate evil with evil, but with good.

And to the Indonesian forumers, we apologise if we've angered you with the usage of 'Indon' ... I just hope none will repeat the mistake again especially if they are aware of the issue. However do understand and give us time to change, as something that has been going on for decades as this never changes overnight, but takes a longer period of time. All we hope for is your kind patience and understanding. And if you wish, to educate the Malaysian public publicly instead of confining yourself to the computers, because computers seldom go far when it comes to things like this.

Bhaskara
Thank you, CD! beerchug.gif
I know that there are decent Malaysians out there who can actually think with both their heads and hearts, that's why I don't want to retaliate with anything disrespectful to the name "Malaysia". I hope everyone would also realize that you can't judge a whole nation just from the action of a few icon_smile.gif
Crystallised Dream
QUOTE(Bhaskara @ Jan 9 2008, 10:36 AM) [snapback]3412665[/snapback]
Thank you, CD! beerchug.gif
I know that there are decent Malaysians out there who can actually think with both their heads and hearts, that's why I don't want to retaliate with anything disrespectful to the name "Malaysia". I hope everyone would also realize that you can't judge a whole nation just from the action of a few icon_smile.gif


: )

Glad there's some degree of understanding here ... I know you're bothered by Esfandiari's usage of the word 'Indon', but if he insists on using it not because he wants to insult, but because 'Indo' to him is a term rightly owned by India/Indians, then I suppose the best you could do is change your mind regarding his usage. As the saying goes: 'If you can't change something, then change what you think about it'. Of course sometimes this saying has to go out the window, but in this situation I think it's best to just let it be since we're practically going nowhere with it and to prolong the issue causes more harm than good. : )

Cheers!
mmmbop
QUOTE(Crystallised Dream @ Dec 31 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]3395073[/snapback]
This thread again...

I think that, in order to understand the usage of the word 'Indon' in Malaysia you will also have to look at how the word 'bule' is used in Indonesia... here I quote the part of a blog entry by an Australian living in Indonesia.
Link to full article: http://ausdag.blogspot.com/2007/12/bule.html
You have to understand that not all Malaysians mean 'Indon' in a bad sense of the word either. Yes I am aware of some AF-ers who use the word 'Indon' (especially after they know what it means to Indonesians) just for flaming's sake, and indeed that is not commendable at all. But get out from AF, look at the local society and you'll see that we mostly use 'Indon' just for convenience's sake instead of having to pronounce a mouthful of 'orang Indonesia'. We use 'Indon' not just to address the Indonesian workers here but to address anything Indonesian in general - even for Indonesian celebrities that are a big hit among Malaysians. If you think we Malaysians only know Indonesians as foreign labourers, think again!

Ask a random Malaysian what 'Indon' means and there's a big chance he'll say 'Orang Indonesia lah.' He wouldn't specifically say 'Tenaga Kerja Indonesia' or 'pembantu rumah Indonesia' or 'buruh warga Indonesia', but just 'orang Indonesia' in general, which to him does not imply anything negative.

Another reason is because like the Indonesian usage of 'bule', we Malaysians have been conditioned to call Indonesians as 'Indons'. It simply does not mean anything negative to us. We've been calling Indonesians 'Indon' for decades and to reverse all that overnight is simply impossible. I suspect that the usage of 'Indon' is also due to the structure of the Malay language - you hardly find words or names that end with merely 'o' in our language. Which is why the term 'Indo' sounds strange and feels strange to the Malaysian tongue, simply because it's just not the way we pronounce things. In contrast, Indonesians are used to words and names that ends with the vocal 'o', so naturally to them 'Indo' is the best way to put it...

I think another reason why 'Indon' is still used is because we Malaysians are still not fully aware of what 'Indon' means to the Indonesians (don't bother about the Malaysians in AF, the larger portion is out there). So far I've only come across one Indonesian official from the Indonesian Consulate in Kuching (my city) that has bothered to address the issue publicly. I wouldn't have known if he had not said a thing either. And my friends, once by one person is not enough to create a big wave of change ...
But of course, I do urge all Malaysians (especially those in this forum) who are aware of this issue to stop calling our neighbours 'Indon', since we're no longer ignorant about it. Yes 'Indo' may sound strange and incomplete to our ears, but for the sake of neighbourly harmony we need to take initiative. We may be upset with some of the Indonesian forumers but we should still maintain a decent air and call them Indonesians or Indo the way they like it. So what if they call us 'malas' or 'Malingsia'? Let them! We did not respond to the Konfrontasi Indonesia with a Konfrontasi Malaysia and neither did we launch our own 'Basmi Indonesia' in response to their 'Ganyang Malaysia', so why should we start 'Indon'-ing them? Never reciprocate evil with evil, but with good.

And to the Indonesian forumers, we apologise if we've angered you with the usage of 'Indon' ... I just hope none will repeat the mistake again especially if they are aware of the issue. However do understand and give us time to change, as something that has been going on for decades as this never changes overnight, but takes a longer period of time. All we hope for is your kind patience and understanding. And if you wish, to educate the Malaysian public publicly instead of confining yourself to the computers, because computers seldom go far when it comes to things like this.


Well said.wholeheartedly agreed..
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