Sure sure, go ahead believe your propaganda, as long as scholary sources from Universities around the world tell a different story, then I'm not gonna bother arguing with you.

I doubt Confucianism is a significant cultural influence anywhere in the world today. It may have been culturally influential in the past, but most of it has been replaced by western ideals like egalitarianism, democracy, communism, etc.

Because you living way up there in north, and you didn't bother to study that region culture and history. have you visit vietnam before? Why don't you do that and stay there awhile, and then also go around to thailand, phillipines and see if you notice the difference.

what are you talking about ancient times? Saigon was recently ceded by France to Vietnam in the 1940's, and this has nothing to do with Chenla or Funan. All of Southern Vietnam was Kampuchea territory, and that parcel island rightfully belongs to Cambodia so screw you both.

this is what it comes down too.

Whoever has the bigger guns owns the land. Thats the pattern of history.

We have too many Chinese nationalists here. Settle down people what ever the final decision, isn't going to be yours.

Why not share the islands between China & Vietnam since they right between them, and this will increase trade and cultural exchange, and even tourism. I guess UN should step in and decide who has the right to claim, either way this land disputes ain't going to be easy one.

China already owned many lands that wasn't belongs to them, so why the fuss trying to acquire more lands.

Can you tell US to share their oil stake in Iraq with other countries? of cuz not.

China is also getting oils from Iraq too. What is your motive dragging US here, we were discussing about land dispute between Vietnam & China.

I'm criticizing the attitudes of some of the AFers here. This is a territorial dispute, and a he said she said bullcrap that's a fight for definitions. The Spratleys for example, are claimed by many nations, excluding the "imperialist" Chinese. All of the reasons for claiming it are just as flimsy as the other.

Personally, the islands should be shared.

You will get the fist part.

These type of comments are probably the retarded things I've read all day.

What does confucianism have anything to do with this debate?

As flimsy as the other? Take a look at this map and use your common sense to figure out what's wrong with the Chinese claims.



China uses a historical basis to claim that the islands were Chinese territory. This has ill implications for other historical claims made by China, such as that on the northern Korea peninsula.

You sound like noob, I won't bother to go into details.
Let me ask this, is Vietnam the only southasian country adopted confucism, yes or no?
as for rest ask your friend Byron, he should be able PM you a thing or two.

Same way US claimed Guam and Hawaii, No Guam is even more far fetched.

I sound like noob? Is that supposed to be an insult?

Yes Vietnam is the only country that is geographically located in South East Asia. What is your point? Like someone already said, it wouldn't matter anymore these days.

No, very different. If you trying to say since USA is occupying above islands, so does China have rights to claims is like saying since they eat $hits, it's OK to eat $hits.
If China want to another USA, then no one will listen to China.

Your buddy Santa is talking about distance.

Qing dynasty maps locate and label the islands as Chinese, just as Vietnamese maps do. Those islands were otherwise unoccupied, and since they were insignificant, no one bothered to dispute them earlier. Both Vietnam and China use the same historical basis for the islands.

Just because an island is closer doesn't mean that it belongs to the country closest to it.

And I seriously doubt that China has made claims on the DPRK.

http://www.kokuryo.com/images/Goguryeo_map1.jpg

Most other countries at ancient time think those islands are garbage, uninhabitable. They have no concept of oil. CHina is the only claiming at old times. This point cannot be emphasized enough.

The Americans do not want to be involved in the Spratly because it is a very sensitive issue that could trigger WWIII. But the Americans have the option to deploy Naval Forces in the Spratly if the situation became worse and the USA will be the most powerful Naval Force in the Spratly. American jets were once deployed in on of the Islands with a long airstrip but they pulled out.

Again bring another western country to an asian dispute like the Old Imperial Era. How fitting.
Take note of the title of thread and my opening statement.

No it fits because the Spratly was completely controlled by the Philippines until the US bases closed in 1992 then problems in the Spratly began to arise.

The Philippines used a number of incidents involving China around Mischief Reef between February and May 1995 as a lever to stimulate their political and military relationship with the USA following the closure of the US bases in the Philippines in 1992. However, the success enjoyed by the Philippines was not due to the underlying logic of US–Philippines relations narrowly defined. Rather, the main factor was China’s resort to military pressure against Taiwan in July and August 1995, and again in March 1996. For the first time, the USA used its ally’s presence in the disputed Spratly islands as a lever of its own for winning back Philippine support for renewed US military access as part of the USA’s strategy for regional power projection against China. The Philippines had played for a security guarantee from the USA in respect of the Spratly islands, but found the price of alliance was mutual commitment, especially with regard to a possible Taiwan contingency.

http://sdi.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/34/1/41

^ I think having a disinterested peacekeeping force there would do some good actually.

You banking on US to bail your out, OK, but just don't get too disappointed in case it doesn't materialized.

No I don't expect the US to help the Philippines because they don't want to get involved but the other scenario is that the US may give or sell the Philippines combat aircrafts and naval boats without the US being directly involved.

Japan Navy and the US navy is the police of the Spratly Islands.

http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/r...lected=Analyses

Japan navy never go to south china sea, lol and US bases are in Guam and Japan.

anyway, that's not the point, the main point is after all those reading...
everyone by now should find the Vietnamese claim of chinese invading Vietnamese territory is a pretty
laughable if not borderline lunatic claim.
You are Dismissed.

The Philipines is having trouble with local Islamic insurgencies despite American donations so that leaves buying new equipment. Is the Philipines willing to pay the exorbitant sums for second grade weapons of which wealthy Taiwan is hesitant?

The Philippines was going to buy Taiwanese F5 fighters from Taiwan but I think it was the Philippines that got hesitant because it would create a tension between China and the Philippines.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200209/1...19_103478.shtml

I think the Philippines is going to aquire a few F18 fighters.

if this true, then what's the argument about? do we have any historical record or better evident to show that island belongs china.

i read most of the posts and kind of getting to understand it a bit better.

it is a small island and from the geographical standpoint, it doesn't belong to either side.

imo, they should split the island or share.

if vn wants it full, thats too greedy.

What if the Spratlys got submereged underwater because of Global Warming? The Spratly are just small islands which are threatened to disappear because of Global Warming. Technically the ocean cannot be owned by a state or nation.

I think this would be a greater problem.

I wasn't referring to distance, don't try changing the subject, you always change subject when can't argue.

Good point.

The obvious reason for Taiwan's phasing out of the F5 is because they are no longer technologically competitive vis a vis PRC. How many F18's would be required to make a difference? I'm no expert, but iis this not the same plane Australia is trying to phase out because it can not match the sukhois some SE asian nations now pocess?

What the PRC needs to do is to look into any prospects of land reclamation arround the islands. This could inherently solve any issues regarding rising sea levels while presenting a potential for human settlement which could once and for all end the issuesof sovereign claim.

F18s are better than nothing because the Philippines is not that rich to buy F22 Raptors or Eurofighters. On the bright side, F18s are considered to be Raptor Killers in terms of conventional dogfighting.

It's not the land, but the water that's important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia

US/British military base in the Indian Ocean.

If the US and Britain are allowed to have territories like these....

Looks like a massive flame bait thread.......

It's UK territory that was once owned by Portugal. Perhaps that island is a remnant of the British Colonization of India. If no one complains so I think its ok to own it but it just looks like an island that is going to disappear in the next 10 years and it also looks like a coral reef lagoon rather than an island.

The Spratly is a different case because many claim it because of its Oil unlike this Diego Gracia, no one claims this useless Coral Reef Lagoon. The Russians claimed the North Pole which is also rich in Oil and according to many that is illegal.

If that's the case, then I'm sure the Brits and Americans are making sure the valuables underneath the island remain hidden.

good! so shall Vietnam gets submerged underwater while we smart chinese move up to tibet!

if that's the case then, I wonder why the f-18's are being replaced by raptors?

I remember I was warned about this site being filled with nationalists, and by what I see, it's true. I see a lot of, Lets do this, lets do that, our military will do this or that. If it bugs you all that much, why don't you get your asses over there and enlist in your countries military and do something about it instead of posting on forums saying stuff like "our forces" are ready to defend or attack if needed. Your not part of the "our" if your at home sitting on your comfy chair staring at the computer screen. I know it might be your country and all, but where are you? Your in the states, if anything, go back to your country and protest there instead of b!tching about it online. Because my friends, that ain't gonna get nowhere. Jeeez, it's just ridiculous sometimes.

^Good Post.

lol....you are such a stupid kid. Do you think that Vietnamese adopted Chinese confucism is a good think for us? Don't be so naive you moron. As a matter of fact, We've tried to get rid of it long time ago, and we tried to adapted westerns system instead.

As far as i see, the reason why Vietnam didn't ask these islands back was because we tried to keep relationship with china. And at the same time we will be able to rebuild our military when push comes to shove

You're brighter than a lot of guys here.


Map published by China in 2006.

Remember, China, greed can destroy you.

you shoud have it said greed could destroy everyone

Of course the colonial white masters are not stupid. Not only have they done this in Asia, they've done it around the world. Once they leave, they make sure the region is unstable. When they colonized and left Rwanda, they purposedly drew up their own boundary line between the Tutsis and the Hutus knowing well that these two groups historically have not gotten along well. They wanted to play the divided and conquer card. they have played it so well , even when people can see thru it, people still fall for it.