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kkdkckrl
QUOTE


To understand the significance of 100 Indian soldiers spending a week running around southwestern China alongside troops from that country's People's Liberation Army in mock battles against imaginary terrorists, it is worth noting that Operation Hand in Hand is the first-ever joint exercise between these two armies. They fought each other in 1962, and have not exactly warmed to one another in the decades since, for much of which India was close to China's erstwhile communist rival, the Soviet Union, while China has been a reliable ally of India's arch-foe, Pakistan. "The two sides will be like two porcupines facing each other," says Delhi-based security analyst C. Uday Bhaskar, "They have had little contact for 40 years, and a negative perception of the other still prevails, more so, perhaps, on the Indian side."


The joint exercise follows a series of smaller steps to break the ice, including a joint mountaineering expedition and joint naval exercises. In 2006, Beijing and New Delhi signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) providing for regular war games and annual defense summits. The thaw in the long-time Sino-Indian cold war began with the 1996 visit of Chinese Premier Jiang Zemin to New Delhi. Since elevating the relationship to a "strategic partnership" in 2005, the two countries have seen bilateral trade exceed $20 billion last year, and have worked together to voice common concerns in such international forums as the WTO and the Bali climate-change talks. "Sino-India relations are definitely on an upswing," says Dipanker Banerjee, director of the Delhi-based Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies. "The army exercises are a result of a natural progression of events, so they are a welcome step."

Not everyone is as optimistic. Chief among the irritants to the relationship is a continuing border dispute: India accuses China of illegally occupying 43,180 square kilometers (16,672 square miles) of territory belonging to the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, including 5,180 square kilometers (2,000 square miles) ceded to China by Pakistan. China, on its part, accuses India of occupying some 90,000 square kilometers (34,749 square miles) of Chinese territory, mostly in the northeastern Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh. Recently, Indian security experts have raised alarm over China's alleged military build-up near India's north-east, while India's Indo-Tibetan Border Police has revealed that there have been 141 border incursions by the Chinese in the past year.

"The Chinese have actually hardened their stance regarding the border issue," says Brahma Chellaney, a strategic studies expert with the Delhi-based Centre for Policy Research, "Last year, the Chinese Ambassador reiterated the Chinese claim on Arunachal Pradesh, and since then they have been trying to put the onus for settlement of the border issue disproportionately on India."

India is also concerned by China's burgeoning and secretive defense expenditure, its building of road and rail links along the border, and its "string of pearls" strategy of setting up naval bases in the Indian Ocean. But China has its own strategic concerns, particularly the fact that India is being courted by the U.S. in a strategy aimed at forging a regional alliance comprising India, Japan, Australia and the U.S. To that end, last September, India held joint naval exercises in the Bay of Bengal with the U.S., Australia, Japan and Singapore, soon after China's military exercises with Russia and the Central Asian members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. China has also been protesting against India's refusal to allow Chinese direct investment in Indian ports, telecommunications and other sectors for security reasons.

This week's Sino-Indian military exercises are aimed at defusing some of this tension. "The exercises will help build military confidence between two nations that have a record of supporting dissidents on the other side — India in Tibet and China in India's North-East," says foreign affairs expert C. Raja Mohan. "They both now share a counter-terror agenda, and it is an important step forward for the two to collaborate." On the domestic political front, the exercises also offer the Indian government an opportunity to quiet criticism from its leftwing coalition partners over its pro-U.S. tilt.

Given its scale, Operation Hand in Hand is essentially symbolic, although it may set the stage for bigger and more regular war games in future. "However," says Chellaney, "Sino-Indian relations need to move beyond mere symbolic gestures towards more substantive steps to resolve outstanding issues." As the economic and security architecture of Asia is re-drawn, competition for resources and influence is likely to grow between Asia's second and third biggest economies. But this need not necessarily lead to tension, as Bhaskar points out: "What matters is how China wants to see India in the long run — as a worthy global power, or as an antagonist that must be mired in South Asia. In the past China has leaned towards the latter approach; it has been arming Pakistan to bog India down. But the way things are evolving, particularly with continuing economic globalization, that may not continue to be the case." Both India and China realize that they need peace to stay on their high growth trajectories. And for this, hand-in-hand will work better than fist-to-fist.


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1697595,00.html
Mid-Night_Sun
"spending a week running around southwestern China alongside troops from that country's People's Liberation Army in mock battles against imaginary terrorists,"

...that sounded retarded. im sorry. sounds like something 10 year old american red necks would do.
kkdkckrl
QUOTE(Mid-Night_Sun @ Dec 22 2007, 11:55 PM) *
"spending a week running around southwestern China alongside troops from that country's People's Liberation Army in mock battles against imaginary terrorists,"

...that sounded retarded. im sorry. sounds like something 10 year old american red necks would do.



I guess that's how "close" the relationship is. The trust is so "high" that the best (and only) joint exercise they could find was running around hitting imaginary terrorists.
paperball
at least its a good gesture. any sino-indian military exercise is positive. the mutual benifits between the two nations outweigh conflicts. there are a lot that we can learn from each other.
VAMAN
It is a step in the right direction. I have already mentioned this in Indian Armed Forces thread.

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=71469&view=findpost&p=3380587


QUOTE(Mid-Night_Sun @ Dec 23 2007, 10:25 AM) *
"spending a week running around southwestern China alongside troops from that country's People's Liberation Army in mock battles against imaginary terrorists,"

...that sounded retarded. im sorry. sounds like something 10 year old american red necks would do.

For your information Americans do these kind of drills with friendly armies all the time.
ACMILAN1983
It's a start at least
ReichsLeiter
hindi-chini bhai bhai
Mid-Night_Sun
QUOTE(VAMAN @ Dec 23 2007, 10:03 AM) *
It is a step in the right direction. I have already mentioned this in Indian Armed Forces thread.

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=71469&view=findpost&p=3380587
For your information Americans do these kind of drills with friendly armies all the time.


yes.....we should all follow americas.....method....for terrorism icon_neutral.gif

[its worked wonders for them]
koreandude
I hope that India and China don't forget the things that were done to them at the hands of foreign powers (especially Britain). It's horrible what they did. People need to read history and learn from it.

That stuff must not happen again.

The best thing that's bringing these countries together is the booming trade.

I hope these countries can have more and more unity.

Jagger
What's up with all this love-hate relationship between China and India? Why can't you guys just get along?

I has got a dream... of Chinese girls and Indian girls playing with each other

babelone
QUOTE(Jagger @ Dec 27 2007, 07:43 AM) *
What's up with all this love-hate relationship between China and India? Why can't you guys just get along?

I has got a dream... of Chinese girls and Indian girls playing with each other

The link took me here:


"Hello, you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Adobe's Flash Player. Get the latest Flash player."

I never turn on Java, and I never turn off javascript and I never waste my time with Adobe's version of Flash, nor Macromedia's.

The two cultures are some of the greatest cultures of the history of Mankind, and for that should always respect the other, but was there anything in the link that you can edit into HTML?

<is it good porn? Send me the jpegs! (hehe)>

Mid-Night_Sun
QUOTE(koreandude @ Dec 25 2007, 11:12 PM) *
I hope that India and China don't forget the things that were done to them at the hands of foreign powers (especially Britain). It's horrible what they did. People need to read history and learn from it.

That stuff must not happen again.

The best thing that's bringing these countries together is the booming trade.

I hope these countries can have more and more unity.


lol no one forgot. i wonder how many people in the world actually know why China suddenly decided to explode... its because of foreign powers. everything was good before and China wanted to be left alone. so it sealed itself off from the world, stopped advancing (no need to). then what? European countries come and slice up China and WWII Japan? out of nowhere too, its not like China didn't trade with others before....Marco Polo anyone?

so now China is pursuing power by any means necessary. and now countries are criticizing left and right, with problems they have as well (usually a more severe case, like pollution). well guess why China doesn't care, because when it didn't pursue power and wanted to be left alone, it got attacked. so now dragons nap time is over.

so yeah, people are well aware of history and no ones forgotten. you can see todays actions as a result of yesterdays events.
helloworld
Man, that Indian soldier needs to change his cloth!!
ReichsLeiter
umm.............why?
Jagger
QUOTE(babelone @ Dec 27 2007, 07:49 AM) *
The link took me here:
"Hello, you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Adobe's Flash Player. Get the latest Flash player."

I never turn on Java, and I never turn off javascript and I never waste my time with Adobe's version of Flash, nor Macromedia's.

The two cultures are some of the greatest cultures of the history of Mankind, and for that should always respect the other, but was there anything in the link that you can edit into HTML?

<is it good porn? Send me the jpegs! (hehe)>

What makes you think it was porn? Naughty boys like you deserve to be poked in the butt.
Shura
Despite some bitter lingering memories of the Sino-Indian War and border clashes, China and India have more to lose than gain with their enmity toward one another. With burgeoning populaces and developing economies, it'd make more sense for China and India to cooperate in mutual projects in trade and military matters rather than have enmity.
And yes, China and India pre-1900s were actually the largest participants in international trade AND manufactured goods. At least half of all the world's products and commodities were of Sinic or Indic origin. However, the arrival of European merchants disrupted and diverted manufacturing and bullion into the coffers of Europe, primarily Britain. As a result, India got colonized and the Chinese humiliated with opium and occupation. Let's hope this doesn't happen again.
VAMAN
QUOTE(helloworld @ Dec 28 2007, 09:57 AM) *
Man, that Indian soldier needs to change his cloth!!

Fyi that Indian soldier is from the Border Police. The uniform he is wearing is a ceremonial uniform. And he is taller than the Chinese soldier. embarassedlaugh.gif
ahmedwazir
QUOTE(ReichsLeiter @ Dec 23 2007, 04:54 PM) *
hindi-chini bhai bhai

It was 'Hindi-China Bhai Bhai', then after 1962 it became bye-bye. It seems it is again a little bhai-bhai because of Taleban. Hope, it will not be bye-bye again.
ircer
QUOTE(paperball @ Dec 23 2007, 09:25 PM) *
at least its a good gesture. any sino-indian military exercise is positive. the mutual benifits between the two nations outweigh conflicts. there are a lot that we can learn from each other.

Yes, on the surface it seems very friendly. But do you really think so? No hidden agenda? Some would say they used this exercise to test each other capabilities. I hope some of you are Indian and keep up with your own news. See below.
QUOTE
CHINA – INDIA
Chinese incursions along the border with India are up
Beijing is pushing India to cede ‘southern Tibet’, the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh. The demand is falling however on deaf ears in New Delhi which is instead reopening an airfield at 4,960 metres above sea level that overlooks the region, especially the Karakoram Highway to Pakistan.

Beijing (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Chinese incursions along the 4,057-km-long Sino-Indian border have increased in 2008. New Delhi has responded by re-building an airfield at 4,960 metres (16,200 feet) close to the border. The control of that part of Tibet under Indian rule but claimed by mainland China is at stake.

Borders between the two nations have not been demarcated on maps or delineated on the ground after the border war of 1962 which India lost. New Delhi claims some 38,000 sq km of territory in Chinese-held Aksai Chin in the north-eastern corner of Jammu and Kashmir as well as 5,180 sq km of land in Kashmir ceded to China by Pakistan in 1963. For its part, China lays claim to around 90,000 sq km of territory in India's northeast, roughly approximating the India state of Arunachal Pradesh. China refers to it as "southern Tibet".

In mid-June both sides said that their territorial dispute was resolved but in the first six months of the year China has carried out over 65 incursions into the Indian state of Sikkim.

Sikkim itself is not at stake but many believe that China is putting pressure on India here in order to get Arunachal Pradesh, especially Tawang.

Nestled in the eastern Himalayas at an altitude of 3,400 meters, Tawang is a critical corridor between Lhasa and the Brahmaputra Valley. It would give China the means to control the entire area.

There is also Tawang's link with Tibetan Buddhism and its religious and emotional significance for Tibetans. It is home to the second most important Tibetan monastery after the Potala Palace in Lhasa, a virtual treasure trove of Tibetan Buddhist religion and culture compared to the cultural genocide currently underway in Tibet. The area is also fertile and rich in minerals

Scholars have argued that Tawang is central to Beijing's control over Tibet and would buttress Beijing’s religious and cultural legitimacy claim that Tibet is an integral part of China. And China's occupation of Aksai Chin has consolidated its military control over Tibet by securing an all-weather, year-round overland access to Tibet.

For this same reason Tibetans and the Dalai Lama insist that Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh are part of India, whilst China wants to annex it to the rest of Tibet as “Chinese territory”.

However New Delhi cannot afford to give in and surrender millions of people who have always been Indian. Thus it is investing billions of dollars into improving communication and transportation links with the rest of the country, reinforcing its military presence in the area, reopening the Daulat Beg Oldi airfield in Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir at 4,960 meters, ideal for dropping or picking up troops and supplies, located a mere eight kilometres from the Sino-Indian Line of Actual Control, and more importantly overlooking the strategic Karakoram Highway that links China and Pakistan.

China can be expected to be quiet before the Games, but one cannot exclude that it might up the ante after they are over, warned Shantonu Choudhry, a former vice chief of army staff, especially “if India's political center is perceived as weak and pusillanimous.”
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