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Ek-ek
The Ate & Kuya: Filipino Sibling Titles
by Karen Grace Pascual



In our annual family reunions, everyone in my clan comes over. So that mans double the number of people I really don't know. What puzzles me back then was the fact that my grandmother kept looking for her "ditse" or my mom looking for "dete" Leli. What was that?
An article of Penelope V. Flores, a professor in San Francisco State University cleared this sibling hierarchy for me.

These titles seem to have seeped into our Filipino culture and have manifested in many Filipino homes. These Filipino titles are not so Filipino at all. In fact, the Filipinos got it from the Chinese.

According to her article, anthropologist Arsenio Manuel, states that the word kuya comes from the Chinese word ko which denotes elder brother, and "a" as a word modifier that denotes kinship. However , we have widely used "kuya" as a term for elder brother not necessary the eldest or addressing an obviously older male related or not related to you. With the widespread use of honorific kinship titles, Kuya has become a generic term for an elder brother, not necessarily the eldest.

A study of many Filipino families with Chinese antecedents can be very informative. For example, former President Corazon Aquino was born a Conjuangco. Her great grandfather was an eldest brother as discerned from the honorific title "Co" in the family clan name. For that matter, any Filipino Chinese patronymic name that begins with "Co" as in "Coseteng" or "Cu" as in "Cutiongco," indicates a family branch from the eldest son.

For the females, "ate" denotes an older sister. In Chinese, you replace the ko with chi thereby making it to achi or atse , like in Kapampangan,or what is relatively known as ate in Tagalog regions.

The second eldest is called diko for males and ditse for females. di translates in Chinese to second. Di indicates a clan that derived from a cadet branch of the family belonging to the second son in the Chinese clan. Although ditse means second elder, in some places, calls them dete.

Following the ordinal Chinese count, third will translate to 'sang'. Thus Sangko is the third elder brother and the third elder sister is sanse.

Lets try another one, Fourth translated in Chinese is, you guessed it, 'si'.The fourth elder sister is called, 'sitse' and fourth elder brother 'siko'.

Well, I guess you can now do the remaining by yourself. But of course we should never forget, the youngest one.

In a Filipino family with nine children of four brothers and four sisters plus the bunso (also called the runt), there is a sociologically structural kinship implication of who has clout. It is abundantly clear who kowtows to everyone else and who carries the commensurate power and prestige among the hierarchy of siblings.

In Filipino families, the elder brothers and sisters are to be respected always. The amount of deference and respect is directly proportional to his/her ordinal position in the sibling constellation. But there is something disarming in all these Kuya and Ate syndrome.

In a Filipino family, the youngest sibling is either the well-loved baby or the brat. Sometimes, they can also be pushed around when the parents arent home. The common little boy name  Totoy is actually a Chinese term which means  the foolish son. The little girl name Nene, in Chinese means  the dull one. We all know that Totoy can be ato, atoy, toy,etc. And Nene can be ineng, day inday.

If youre the youngest, dont worry, its not that youre stupid. These name handles are in fact terms of endearments. The youngest kids normally get away with everything.

No matter if you are older or younger, you must always remember to respect one your siblings. It doesnt excuse a kuya to bully a totoy nor an ate to push her the nene around. And if you become a parent or is one now, always remember to keep things fair around house.

Her article can also be found in the August 2000 issue of Filipinas magazine
Horitaka
good find beerchug.gif
Ek-ek
I always go to this site!

It would be nice to know the origin of some Filipino words .
dalawapo
QUOTE
These Filipino titles are not so Filipino at all.


Kuya and Ate are not Filipino words... then why is it in the Filipino language dictionary? icon_neutral.gif
Ek-ek
Ano ka ba?

Filipino words were influenced by Chinese Mandarin, Chinese Fookien, Spanish, English, Malayo-Polenesian, Nipponggo, Indian, Vietnamese, Arabic etc..........
dalawapo
malayo-polynesian is not a influence... its the root girl!

im just saying we should be careful in wording things

QUOTE
These Filipino titles are not so Filipino at all.


of course they are Filipino! but the origins may be from china!

just like we had a baybayin writing script, the script is derived from india just like all scripts of seasia but yet the writing script became distinctly of the philippine islands!
Horitaka
I disagree with the polynesian thing
Ek-ek
Filipino languages and dialects originated from Malayo-Polynesian but centuries of trade, colonization, marriage etc.... had left us with a lot of words borrowed then Filipinized into our own words.
dalawapo
hoitak show some thing to disprove the lingustic relationship between malayan languages & polynesian languages then!

not just go about saying you dont believe cause of your own personal experinces or whatever....

ekek, filipino language (based on tagalog) retained native austronesian syntax/structure etc. most of the words in the national language, filipino is native tagalog words. we merely recieve foreign loan words to the language, but also retain the native words as the lingust says.

QUOTE
Tagalog is the most important of the many tongues and dialects of the Philippines on account of its being widely understood, and the most developed by contact with foreign idioms. Spoken by over ten million of an energetic race in the islands occupying the capital city of Manila, eight provinces surrounding the metropolis, and a number of outlying islands and districts beyond these limits, it is also generally understood by many far beyond its own territory, especially in seaport towns throughout the archipelago.

The language seems to be divided into a northern and a southern dialect, the former being spoken in Bulacan, Bataan, Nueva Ecija, Rizal, and parts of Tarlac, and the latter occupying La Laguna, Batangas, Cavite, Tayabas, Marinduque, the coast of Mindoro and part of the Camarines Norte and Camarines Sur. Dialect differences though can only be distinguished by local mannerisms in pronunciation but very seldom in meaning.

Philologically, Tagalog belongs to the Malayan branch of the great Malayo-Polynesian linguistic family, which extends from Hawaii to Madagascar and from Formosa to Easter Island west of Chile, including New Zealand, Tonga, and Samoa, as well as Borneo, Celebes, Java, Sumatra, the Malay Peninsula, and the Philippines from east to west, a distance of 180º, or half the circumference of the earth.

Tagalog, together with other civilized tongues of the Philippines, such as Visayan, Pampango, Ilocano and Bicol, has preserved the verbal system better than any other. The basis for the comparative study of the family must be taken from the Philippine tongues and not from the more cultivated Malay, Kawi, or modern Javanese, all three of which have been profoundly affected by Sanskrit and to a lesser degree Arabic, something as English has been affected by Latin and French elements. The number of roots or primitive-idea words in Tagalog seems to be about 17, 000 there being 16, 842 words in the Noceda and Sanlucar dictionary of 1832. Of these some 284 are derived from the Sanskrit, and are evidently borrowed through the Malay. Many of these are names for the things unknown to the primitive Malayan peoples, but others are abstracts and various words, some of which would seem to have supplanted a primitive Malayan word. Thus in may cases Americans and Tagalogs use words in their own languages which are from the same remote source in India, and coming aroung the earth east and west to meet again in the Philippines.

The Japanese language seems to have furnished no words to the Tagalog although many Japanese came to the Islands during the seventeenth century owing to the expulsion of Japanese converts to Catholicism, who found a refuge in Manila and the adjoining provinces, mainly in Pampanga.

Notwithstanding a comparatively close contact with the Chinese for several centuries and certainly antedating the Spanish conquest by many hundred years, the Chinese element in Tagalog seems limited to a few commercial terms, some household implements, and a few miscellaneous words.

The Arabic words in Tagalog, which are hardly more than a dozen in number, evidently came in with the Mohammedan religion, and upon the extinction of that faith around the mouth of the Pasig, all but a few words fell into disuse.

Spanish, as a matter of course, has contributed a great number of words to Tagalog, many of which have been thoroughly naturalized. They are mainly religious, governmental, social, legal and abstract terms, including terms for foreign articles and luxuries. Some names for Mexican articles are not Spanish, but Nahuatl or Aztec, owing to the intimate connection between Mexico and the Philippines for more than two centuries. English has as yet given but a few words to Tagalog. English words which have no exact native or Spanish equivalent are taken into the language bodily, while many others are still quoted.

The construction of Tagalo does not seem to have been influences by any of the foregoing languages but has retained its Malayan structure.

As has been already mentioned, there are some 17,000 roots in the Tagalog language, many of which are nouns, pronouns, adverbs, and prepositions. Verbs are generally formed by the use of certain particles (affixes) of which there are more than twenty. Together with the noun and the adjectives forming particles, of which there are several, the possible number of intelligible Tagalog words can not be far from 50,000 to 60,000; quite sufficient to express any non-technical ideas of any language whatsoever. Yet, with all these there are some curious facts about the language and its vocabulary. Many general terms can not be expressed in one word, but the modifications of a general act have many words to express them, sometimes far more than exist in English and Spanish. In addition to such particularizing words, there are also many synonyms or words meaning the same thing in Tagalog, many of which are local or provincial or not heard in the same locality.

In Tagalog, there are twelve (12) names for the coconut, including its different varieties and conditions for the maturity and preparation for use. The verb to carry, with its variations has some eighty words to express all combinations in Tagalog. It should be borne in mind that Tagalog is not constructed on English or Spanish lines, either in grammar or syntax. The universal tendency upon using a new language is to translate one's own language word for word, or phrase for phrase, into the foreign one. The native may understand but the result is not elegant. No language can be learned entirely from books, and to supplement the special needs of each person, constant practice in speaking with educated or intelligent Tagalogs is necessary. Even with a considerable vocabulary, the American or any other foreigner, will find difficulty in conveying just what he wants to say in Tagalog unless he masters the idioms and peculiarities of the language. This will not be a very easy task, but once mastered, the key is held to all the Philippine languages, and it might be said, to all the Malayan languages of the East Indies.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/3727/tagalog1.htm
poknat
Kuya , Ate and those other words are of Chinese fookien dialect in origin then Filipinized them into our own !

So there were a lot of Chinese words that were incorporated in the Filipino languages and dialects!

But the main origin is Malayo-Polynesian.
dalawapo
if u were to filipinze a home what religous symbolisnm will go in it?
poknat
Image of the holy family?
maybe in Barong Tagalog, Baro't Saya
dalawapo
QUOTE (poknat @ Aug 6 2004, 03:45 AM)
Image of the holy family?
maybe in Barong Tagalog, Baro't Saya

only the barong?

why not a sarong of the muslim ppl or a sluong knibang of the tribal ppl? are these not dresses of the philippines? is not muslim and tribal/indigenous also religions of the philippines?
Ek-ek
QUOTE (dalawapo @ Aug 6 2004, 04:42 PM)
if u were to filipinze a home what religous symbolisnm will go in it?

icon_neutral.gif Pasensiya na kuya!

I think it was kind off the topic!
dalawapo
that is fine ek-ek, i have made a topic of it, u can just ignore it in here. but it will be a discussion in the forums that u can not deny!
Ek-ek
Yeah, You always got a lot of nice informative yet sometimes controversial topics here!

Thanks,
BishoujoHunter
speaking of ate and kuya thing

our word for spider is Gagamba


http://www.hoklo.org/YuetCulture/Articles/?item=4#4
Ek-ek
So where did the word gagamba came from?
Is it from proto -Yuet?
maogmang_aki
QUOTE (BishoujoHunter @ Aug 6 2004, 04:21 AM)
speaking of ate and kuya thing

our word for spider is Gagamba


http://www.hoklo.org/YuetCulture/Articles/?item=4#4

Ngex, dito kaya sa amin, may mga subdialects na Lawa ang tawag sa gagamba... biggrin.gif
Ek-ek
Is it in Bikol?
maogmang_aki
QUOTE (Ek-ek @ Aug 6 2004, 05:29 AM)
Is it in Bikol?

opo nga po... at lawa rin ang lake! icon_smile.gif
tsinooy1
on my mother's side, they use those sibling names. diko, sanco.....My second pinsans call their lola "Waipo", I think its mandarin for maternal grandmother
ham_let
influenced from fukien?! they sound so different... embarassedlaugh.gif

kuya <--> ahia... (dunno how to spell) EDIT: wha? 'KO'? i've never heard that... sure.gif
ate <--> achee...

older brother>> ahia
middle brother>> dihia
younger brother>> syoti
older sister>> achee
middle sister>> dichee
younger sister>> syobe

EDIT: hmm, actually, i have heard diko... but, we never used that in my family... icon_neutral.gif

i call my lola: ama... iunno how to say uncle/aunt in fukien tho, we say that in cantonese, and even then i'm confused... y can't it just be: aunt+name?!?!
tsinooy1
ditse, atse, sanse, mmmmm
tsinooy1
doesnt "co" have anything to do wid "brother"
Like in terms of brotherhood....hence we have last names with co.. like limjoco, or cojuangco
ham_let
yeah i was thinking that too, but aren't those names just a full name of a certain person, that's made into a last name to pay respect/sound more like a spanish name? of course, that would mean thousands of ppl would have to have 'co' as the second syllable in their given name, unless the last syllable is their surname which i doubt...

so with what your saying, having the last syllable of 'co' would ackknowledge you as being a tsinoy?
tsinooy1
I assuming, but can be...mmmm....simple yet complicated hehehe
xie xie dahil sa info
Zaijian
Ek-ek
QUOTE (tsinooy1 @ Aug 8 2004, 10:23 AM)
on my mother's side, they use those sibling names. diko, sanco.....My second pinsans call their lola "Waipo", I think its mandarin for maternal grandmother

icon_neutral.gif What I know that there are also Chinese Mandarin and Cantonese words that were also incorporated in the Filipino languages.


I could hear some Filipinos saying Wai po ..........
poknat
QUOTE (BishoujoHunter @ Aug 6 2004, 04:21 AM)
speaking of ate and kuya thing

our word for spider is Gagamba


http://www.hoklo.org/YuetCulture/Articles/?item=4#4

embarassedlaugh.gif Interesting Chart!

So there have been a lot of influences coming form other Chinese dialects as well, Not just Chinese Fookien,Mandarin , Cantonese or Hakka.
maogmang_aki
O eh di diayalekto na lang namin Bicol,
Manay - ate
manoy - kuya

saang mga wika naman kaya yon galing...? confused.gif
JMAC
wow I never knew the origin of the words before... Ek-Ek is my syobe! biggrin.gif
Ek-ek
Now you know.
maogmang_aki
Basta ba may kasabay na respeto, kahit anong honorific ang gamitin... okay na sa akin yon... icon_smile.gif
Ek-ek
Ate maogmang ?
Rocky Cuong V
QUOTE (Ek-ek @ Aug 6 2004, 05:02 PM)
The Ate & Kuya: Filipino Sibling Titles
by Karen Grace Pascual



In our annual family reunions, everyone in my clan comes over. So that mans double the number of people I really don't know. What puzzles me back then was the fact that my grandmother kept looking for her "ditse" or my mom looking for "dete" Leli. What was that?
An article of Penelope V. Flores, a professor in San Francisco State University cleared this sibling hierarchy for me.

These titles seem to have seeped into our Filipino culture and have manifested in many Filipino homes. These Filipino titles are not so Filipino at all. In fact, the Filipinos got it from the Chinese.

According to her article, anthropologist Arsenio Manuel, states that the word kuya comes from the Chinese word ko which denotes elder brother, and "a" as a word modifier that denotes kinship. However , we have widely used "kuya" as a term for elder brother not necessary the eldest or addressing an obviously older male related or not related to you. With the widespread use of honorific kinship titles, Kuya has become a generic term for an elder brother, not necessarily the eldest.

A study of many Filipino families with Chinese antecedents can be very informative. For example, former President Corazon Aquino was born a Conjuangco. Her great grandfather was an eldest brother as discerned from the honorific title "Co" in the family clan name. For that matter, any Filipino Chinese patronymic name that begins with "Co" as in "Coseteng" or "Cu" as in "Cutiongco," indicates a family branch from the eldest son.

For the females, "ate" denotes an older sister. In Chinese, you replace the ko with chi thereby making it to achi or atse , like in Kapampangan,or what is relatively known as ate in Tagalog regions.

The second eldest is called diko for males and ditse for females. di translates in Chinese to second. Di indicates a clan that derived from a cadet branch of the family belonging to the second son in the Chinese clan. Although ditse means second elder, in some places, calls them dete.

Following the ordinal Chinese count, third will translate to 'sang'. Thus Sangko is the third elder brother and the third elder sister is sanse.

Lets try another one, Fourth translated in Chinese is, you guessed it, 'si'.The fourth elder sister is called, 'sitse' and fourth elder brother 'siko'.

Well, I guess you can now do the remaining by yourself. But of course we should never forget, the youngest one.

In a Filipino family with nine children of four brothers and four sisters plus the bunso (also called the runt), there is a sociologically structural kinship implication of who has clout. It is abundantly clear who kowtows to everyone else and who carries the commensurate power and prestige among the hierarchy of siblings.

In Filipino families, the elder brothers and sisters are to be respected always. The amount of deference and respect is directly proportional to his/her ordinal position in the sibling constellation. But there is something disarming in all these Kuya and Ate syndrome.

In a Filipino family, the youngest sibling is either the well-loved baby or the brat. Sometimes, they can also be pushed around when the parents arent home. The common little boy name  Totoy is actually a Chinese term which means  the foolish son. The little girl name Nene, in Chinese means  the dull one. We all know that Totoy can be ato, atoy, toy,etc. And Nene can be ineng, day inday.

If youre the youngest, dont worry, its not that youre stupid. These name handles are in fact terms of endearments. The youngest kids normally get away with everything.

No matter if you are older or younger, you must always remember to respect one your siblings. It doesnt excuse a kuya to bully a totoy nor an ate to push her the nene around. And if you become a parent or is one now, always remember to keep things fair around house.

Her article can also be found in the August 2000 issue of Filipinas magazine

oic. THx for da info.
Ek-ek
This articles shows that these words were from Chinese origins.
poknat
QUOTE (JMAC @ Aug 9 2004, 07:51 AM)
wow I never knew the origin of the words before... Ek-Ek is my syobe! biggrin.gif

embarassedlaugh.gif Yup, I second that!
kim_kayie
is ek-ek is the youngest here?
Ek-ek
QUOTE (maogmang_aki @ Aug 11 2004, 07:10 PM)
Basta ba may kasabay na respeto, kahit anong honorific ang gamitin... okay na sa akin yon... icon_smile.gif

embarassedlaugh.gif Well said. I think that using this term rather addressing the person in his/her full name is more respectful for most Asians and Filipinos as well.
flipcombatmedic
the term ate and kuya as well as a bunch of filipino, or should i say tagalog words are of chinese origin.
dalawapo
why are u repeating what is already said? icon_rolleyes.gif
flipcombatmedic
well i'm sorry sir, i dont have the luxury of time that you do so i could not fully read it as you did
dalawapo
read the first post, that's all you have to do idiot, if ur going to post in something at least know what is going on. icon_rolleyes.gif
flipcombatmedic
idiot? what's up with your cranky @$$ thats the reason why you got no friends here. sorry for my french.
dalawapo
i dont call everyone an idiot, i only use the term sparingly when it fits for ppl like you and ejay1. biggrin.gif
flipcombatmedic
right and how about the time you called halo halo one? maybe the term idiot not so much but i am for sure have used alot of other derogatory ones. and please stop hating, because i will have to disgrace you in front of people again and when everybody gangs up on your @$$ you'd act like its peace and all. like i said your befouling language makes this filipino site look like we're a bunch of people with no manners.
Ek-ek
Actually, He thinks that you have time to read the article!
ham_let
lol, don't get mad... sirang ulo si dalawapo... but he's a very proud filipino nonetheless... a little too proud, and a little too intereste in his culture, but i guess that's a good thing... although, jeez, he pisses ppl off to much... hopefully he'll learn how to read tagalog so he can contribute to the rest of the threads... i'd like to see that...

btw, if anyone wants to know, i do know how to read tagalog, it's just that making sentences is close to impossible... the whole verb-subject instead of subject-verb thing is really weird to me...
BatangDamo
QUOTE (ham_let @ Sep 6 2004, 08:47 PM)
lol, don't get mad... sirang ulo si dalawapo... but he's a very proud filipino nonetheless... a little too proud, and a little too intereste in his culture, but i guess that's a good thing... although, jeez, he pisses ppl off to much... hopefully he'll learn how to read tagalog so he can contribute to the rest of the threads... i'd like to see that...

btw, if anyone wants to know, i do know how to read tagalog, it's just that making sentences is close to impossible... the whole verb-subject instead of subject-verb thing is really weird to me...

hmmm, what i dont like about the guy is one day he's praising the Philippines, the next bashing it. repeat cycle at least most of the time......
anjing
yan ang mga taong walang sariling disposisyon...
di malaman kung san lulugar...
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