Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Suharto: What Goes Around Comes Around
Asia Finest Discussion Forum > Asian Culture > Indonesian Chat > Indonesian Serious Talk
theaccidentaltourist
He syphoned billions of dollars to private accounts of his owns and his cronies for years,
but he declared himself of "not having a single cents" in his pocket. You got that right...,
not in his pocket but rather in numerous accounts domestically and abroad which over the
years earned this devil incarnate and his cohorts even much more money.

He killed millions of people, starting from the mid sixties, his first hundred thousands of
victimes were what he coined as communists and communist symphatizers. His bloody
hands continued reaping victims after victims over the next three decades: the achenese,
the chinese, the irianese, the timorese, and the list goes on.

His cronies in the high places had helped to prevent him from being brought to justice
for so long. Many people far removed from the brutal episodes of Suharto's era might
not even remember. They might even care less. The cry and sorrow of millions
who directly or indirectly victimized by this atrocious despot might have gone unnoticed
to these people, but one day it will come front and center again. It might be seen Suharto
is beyond the reach of this country's corrupt and appaling court of law. However, we shall
rejoice that the Supreme Judgment from the Above will happen eventually. It will only take
time.

Fast forward to the present, he clings to his life amidst the assistance of the latest medical
equipments. It makes one wonders: what is the purpose of all these delays? Was he so afraid
to face all those victims he helped murdered and killed had he died now? But, no...,
rather..., If God is the Most Merciful and Gracious, God is also the Most Swift and Certain with
His punishments. Suharto is now facing what many religious authority call the long retributions
before his final demise, the long torturous journey to the death. Indeed, what goes around
comes around.


The Accidental Tourist
Bhaskara
I think it's not fair for him to die on us now, it would be a blemish on Indonesia's vow against corruptors. icon_sad.gif
snoopy
Too right.
Hopefully, the government (with the assistance of international anti-corruption agencies) can one day recover the millions he siphoned from the country, albeit it, a little late. As he desperately tries to fight off the inevitable, I hope he does feel an ounce of remorse for the atrocities his regime was responsible for. Lets hope his children and cronies foot the bill.
Indonbali
QUOTE (theaccidentaltourist @ Jan 15 2008, 09:30 PM) *
He syphoned billions of dollars to private accounts of his owns and his cronies for years,
but he declared himself of "not having a single cents" in his pocket. You got that right...,
not in his pocket but rather in numerous accounts domestically and abroad which over the
years earned this devil incarnate and his cohorts even much more money.

He killed millions of people, starting from the mid sixties, his first hundred thousands of
victimes were what he coined as communists and communist symphatizers. His bloody
hands continued reaping victims after victims over the next three decades: the achenese,
the chinese, the irianese, the timorese, and the list goes on.

His cronies in the high places had helped to prevent him from being brought to justice
for so long. Many people far removed from the brutal episodes of Suharto's era might
not even remember. They might even care less. The cry and sorrow of millions
who directly or indirectly victimized by this atrocious despot might have gone unnoticed
to these people, but one day it will come front and center again. It might be seen Suharto
is beyond the reach of this country's corrupt and appaling court of law. However, we shall
rejoice that the Supreme Judgment from the Above will happen eventually. It will only take
time.

Fast forward to the present, he clings to his life amidst the assistance of the latest medical
equipments. It makes one wonders: what is the purpose of all these delays? Was he so afraid
to face all those victims he helped murdered and killed had he died now? But, no...,
rather..., If God is the Most Merciful and Gracious, God is also the Most Swift and Certain with
His punishments. Suharto is now facing what many religious authority call the long retributions
before his final demise, the long torturous journey to the death. Indeed, what goes around
comes around.


The Accidental Tourist






Ex-President Suharto is the representative of majority Indonesians.

Full of blood, dirty money, corrupt power and no good consciousness at all

ataturk
^ Wow, you sure are full of pompous arrogance by having the gall to bash every one of the 240 million Indonesians as bad people.
Majapahitans
QUOTE (ataturk @ Nov 3 2009, 10:05 AM) *
^ Wow, you sure are full of pompous arrogance by having the gall to bash every one of the 240 million Indonesians as bad people.


Ataturk... I sense "it" just anuther lame Indonesia-hater, icon_confused.gif maybe separatist supporters. Although all entitled of freedom of speech, I don't think its wise to feed the troll. Let it stay under the bridge where it belongs.
Indonbali
QUOTE (ataturk @ Nov 3 2009, 09:05 AM) *
^ Wow, you sure are full of pompous arrogance by having the gall to bash every one of the 240 million Indonesians as bad people.





I said, MAJORITY Indonesians are corruptors, not all Indonesians are corruptors. Check out my writing before.

And your current Finance Minister: Sri Mulyani said that 93% of total government officials are Corruptors.

If 93% government officials are thieves, we can say that Majority Indons are corruptors.

Dont' be too sensitive, do reality check. It is the fact !
londoh
QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Nov 3 2009, 01:05 PM) *
Ataturk... I sense "it" just anuther lame Indonesia-hater, icon_confused.gif maybe separatist supporters. Although all entitled of freedom of speech, I don't think its wise to feed the troll. Let it stay under the bridge where it belongs.

Hi Mas Maja,

I never thought you were so narrow-minded, you talk about “freedom of speech” but in the same sentence about a ban. This seems a contradictio in terminis to me. The guy says things that are true, your problem, and that of many Javanese is that they don’t want to hear things like that. It is “not done” to speak like this or criticize Javanese behaviour. The reaction is always very arrogant, what Javanese themselves call “overacting”
Majapahitans
QUOTE (londoh @ Nov 8 2009, 05:22 AM) *
Hi Mas Maja,

I never thought you were so narrow-minded, you talk about “freedom of speech” but in the same sentence about a ban. This seems a contradictio in terminis to me. The guy says things that are true, your problem, and that of many Javanese is that they don’t want to hear things like that. It is “not done” to speak like this or criticize Javanese behaviour. The reaction is always very arrogant, what Javanese themselves call “overacting”


What can I say is everyone have right to have opinions and freedom of speech. And choosing to ignoring and not to speak is indeed exercising a freedom of (not) speech too.
And I didn't sentence a ban at all, just healthy dose of ignorance.
I have encounter alot of this kind of dude in the net. They don't want a discussion in good manner of mutual respect, they've set their mind in "attack mode", their agenda and mind is already setted on disliking or hating something. Wheater it be Islam-hater, Indonesia-hater, or Indonesia-separatist sympathizer etc.
Try to discussing or reasoning with them are kinda frustating and impossible. And "ignore" button is works for me...
Discussing politics without ourself having mutual respect, having actual power to change, or without any actual experience, is leading to nowhere. "Debat kusir, buang-buang tenaga Oom..."
ataturk
@indonbali: We are the world's 15th largest economy in the world, with 3rd fastest growth rate amongst major world economies. Our people are wealthy enough to consume and support this growth. We are being praised by the international community for these accomplishments. Our anti-corruption efforts are being praised worldwide. These accomplishments would not happen if your childish generalisations is true.
londoh
QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Nov 8 2009, 07:40 AM) *
What can I say is everyone have right to have opinions and freedom of speech. And choosing to ignoring and not to speak is indeed exercising a freedom of (not) speech too.
And I didn't sentence a ban at all, just healthy dose of ignorance.
I have encounter alot of this kind of dude in the net. They don't want a discussion in good manner of mutual respect, they've set their mind in "attack mode", their agenda and mind is already setted on disliking or hating something. Wheater it be Islam-hater, Indonesia-hater, or Indonesia-separatist sympathizer etc.
Try to discussing or reasoning with them are kinda frustating and impossible. And "ignore" button is works for me...
Discussing politics without ourself having mutual respect, having actual power to change, or without any actual experience, is leading to nowhere. "Debat kusir, buang-buang tenaga Oom..."

Nice story Mas, but what you did is quite a dirty way of reacting. I have been told by an old man who had stayed long time on Java. Be aware,!! (Awas) Javanese are the only people in the wortld who wear their weapon on their backs. You are an example. You got a very dirty way to place people in a place where they look wrong, it has nothing to do with objectivity, you count on Indonesian sentiment from the other Indonesians here. What a mess that kind of thinking, real dirt that has to be thrown in the garbage can.
londoh
QUOTE (ataturk @ Nov 8 2009, 08:29 AM) *
@indonbali: We are the world's 15th largest economy in the world, with 3rd fastest growth rate amongst major world economies. Our people are wealthy enough to consume and support this growth. We are being praised by the international community for these accomplishments. Our anti-corruption efforts are being praised worldwide. These accomplishments would not happen if your childish generalisations is true.


And so what ?? Where are you talking about. The funniest thing are "the efforts" every Javanese is corrupt, it is hidden in their small balls. I have never seen so much poverty and arrogance in my life as on Java.
Kresna
QUOTE (londoh @ Nov 8 2009, 04:52 PM) *
And so what ?? Where are you talking about. The funniest thing are "the efforts" every Javanese is corrupt, it is hidden in their small balls. I have never seen so much poverty and arrogance in my life as on Java.

If you despise Indonesia so much, then what on earth are you doing on a internet messageboard for Indonesian ABG's and twenty-somethings??? You are pathetic and just another irrelevant Blok M type of bule.
londoh
QUOTE (Kresna @ Nov 8 2009, 02:43 PM) *
If you despise Indonesia so much, then what on earth are you doing on a internet messageboard for Indonesian ABG's and twenty-somethings??? You are pathetic and just another irrelevant Blok M type of bule.



Some people felt their asses burnt because there is some opinion about their country. They still are stuck in the "Demokrasi Pemimpin" of their hero Soekaro, 50 years ago. What a mess, but if you are happy with it I just say "Silakan aja", it is your country, not mine.
londoh
QUOTE (Kresna @ Nov 8 2009, 02:43 PM) *
If you despise Indonesia so much, then what on earth are you doing on a internet messageboard for Indonesian ABG's and twenty-somethings??? You are pathetic and just another irrelevant Blok M type of bule.


He I see you are living di Ngeri Penjaja, what you are doing here, illigal cleaning toilets for 5 euro an hour ? Great fun isn't it. Call me and we'll have a teh otak together.
Kresna
QUOTE (londoh @ Nov 8 2009, 08:10 PM) *
He I see you are living di Ngeri Penjaja, what you are doing here, illigal cleaning toilets for 5 euro an hour ? Great fun isn't it. Call me and we'll have a teh otak together.

No, I'm a studentnurse working my @$$ off every single day to take care of my patients despite a shortage in qualified staff. I'm also damn proud of that.
JoeRagan
QUOTE (londoh @ Nov 8 2009, 10:52 AM) *
And so what ?? Where are you talking about. The funniest thing are "the efforts" every Javanese is corrupt, it is hidden in their small balls. I have never seen so much poverty and arrogance in my life as on Java.

QUOTE (Kresna @ Nov 8 2009, 01:43 PM) *
If you despise Indonesia so much, then what on earth are you doing on a internet messageboard for Indonesian ABG's and twenty-somethings??? You are pathetic and just another irrelevant Blok M type of bule.

Yay dat explains it, in ABG's lingo: Londoh "benci (bener bener cinta)" Indonesia !
but gotta admit he's got one big cohone! embarassedlaugh.gif
londoh
QUOTE (JoeRagan @ Nov 8 2009, 07:12 PM) *
Yay dat explains it, in ABG's lingo: Londoh "benci (bener bener cinta)" Indonesia !
but gotta admit he's got one big cohone! embarassedlaugh.gif



You are perfectly right, I have noting to do between a bunch of little facsists, time to quit.
Majapahitans
QUOTE (londoh @ Nov 8 2009, 11:49 AM) *
Nice story Mas, but what you did is quite a dirty way of reacting. I have been told by an old man who had stayed long time on Java. Be aware,!! (Awas) Javanese are the only people in the wortld who wear their weapon on their backs. You are an example. You got a very dirty way to place people in a place where they look wrong, it has nothing to do with objectivity, you count on Indonesian sentiment from the other Indonesians here. What a mess that kind of thinking, real dirt that has to be thrown in the garbage can.


My soo called "dirty" reaction is after examining the indonbali posts in other threads that I finds all are in "attack mode" and sinister tone. So I decided to sling a dirt on it. icon_twisted.gif
Unlike you Oom Lon, although you sometimes have negative and "sinical" view and opinion that can make a proud Indonesian Javanese's thin-ear turn to dark-red, somehow you have rights, because (unfortunately) you experience it yourself, and you have honesty and sincerety in that. Sometimes you also have some neutrality and positive opinion too, and because of that I appreciate your POV. Seeing Indonesia in foreign unflattering eyes, I think maybe it's good for reality-check.
Unlike random hater from nowhere whom didn't even know, understand, or ever live in Indonesia, and actively decided to have Indonesia-bashing for breakfast, and attack based on separatist propaganda on the net. It is wasting time to deal with them.

I'm aware of your stereotypical Javanese "politics" that "Keris ning Mburi" things... Somehow I can understand that, because Javanese indeed have long recorded history of cunningness. From Ancient Hindu-Buddhist Mataram, Singhasari, to Majapahit, from Sultanate of Demak, Pajang, Jipang, and Mataram, all are full of example of politics dirts of undirect and tactics with all that "tipu daya". The more flatering tone is; Javanese have "sophisticated politics" since ancient times, probably rivaled only by ancient China or Rome. Sophisticated politics may equal to dirty conspiracy. Here we taught in history that Mataram is dominated/"dijajah" by VOC (Kompeni), actually I believe it was Kompeni whom being absorbed into whirpool of Mataram dirty partisan politics and involved in struggle of power of the rival princes. And Kompeni play their card quite good with equal cunningness.
Somehow it frustate me too (to deal with Javanese) because everything is not what it seems..., Then again it's all because of "undirecness" and it is consider rude and blatant (even barbaric) for one to be bare souled, open book, or display shallow emotions. Always using undirectness to be polite and discreet, but this can be perceive as deceiving, even back stabbing. icon_confused.gif
Kresna
QUOTE (londoh @ Nov 9 2009, 07:30 AM) *
You are perfectly right, I have noting to do between a bunch of little facsists, time to quit.

beerchug.gif
JoeRagan
Mas Maja n Bung Lon it’s been very interesting to read many of your postings/comments about Indo history, it is like we are witnessing the changing of a text book history unfolding before our eyes.

We know that Republiken as well as Kumpeni to a certain degree both suffer from and guilty of inexactitude of tempo doeloe history,
but Indonesia as the winner got to write the history her own version and the looser can only refute bitterly to the end.
The cycle continues and repeated until peeps like u share ur “balanced” side.

And truth be told –not to negate the spectacular kemajuan2 so far -there are still troubles in paradise like the real looser is always the much touted "rakyat kecil" who still don’t get their share of the pie of prosperity that only the elites can get hold of.

But let’s keep hope alive that soon we can change for better despite all the odds.
Keep on da good vibes you are ok guys in my book.

Indonbali
According to United Nations and Word Bank, Ex-President Suharto stole people's money around $35 billion dollar in cash. It doesn't include many giant companies in Indonesia owned by Suharto's family. And Suharto is a Javanese.

It means the worst thief in the world is a Javanese.

***************



On the other hand, Javanese or Indons ? always say they are civilized people. They always feel offended when people disclose their bad actions. Javanese always scold other people who dare to speak the truth. It is very strange. Javanese/Indons reminds me to NAZI but not exactly the same.

Germany Nazis are great people. They are highly educated people. They consider themselves as superior race because they have many achievements in the world, better than most other nations. I can understand their extreme chauvinistic feeling as long as they don't attack other people.

However, Javanese/Indons are inferior people. They don't have many achievements in the world. Suharto knew that. So, Suharto routinely and actively brainwashed Indons/Javanese for many decades that Indons/Javanese are great, polite and civilized people via media, newspaper, indoctrinations.

To successfully brainwash Javanese, Suharto needed a scapegoat. Chinese are the perfect scapegoat. They are week, minority, rich, and in that time, China was weak. Suharto brainwashed Javanese that Chinese are foreigners who are stealing their money, wealth and bad people.

You cannot successfully brainwash people if you don't have the "enemy". You must can "compare" between two parties, between Javanese and Chinese. By spreading racist prejudices that Chinese are bad people, Suharto successfully brainwash Javanese that they are great/good people.

But, Suharto needs to tightly control the media in Indonesia, kick out all foreign medias who dare to speak the truths and did all kinds of rubbish indoctrinations on Indons everyday, every time, everywhere to make the brainwashing work.

And it works well.


*********************


However, when Suharto was toppled by his own people in 1998, suddenly, all medias can speak freely. No more indoctrinations. Freedom at last !!

And, gradually people started to realize that they are not as "great" as they used to be under Suharto's rule.

People started to realize that they actually are inferior, lazy, corrupt, racist and full of violences.

It hurts the feelings of Javanese so bad !!

Cannot handling the truths, Javanese/Indons start to make denials, try to keep brainwash themselves that they are "great" people and scold other people who dare to speak the truth.

In reality, Indons still have no world class achievements, compare with other nations/races.

It is as if Indons are inferior Nazis. Declaring themselves that they are great people, but they don't have real great achievements in the world.

***************************




See.......

Now we all can understand why Indons still don't feel guilty eventhough they are the most corrupt people in the world. The extreme brainwashings which happened for many decades under Suharto's rule cannot be abolished just in 10 years. It takes 1 generation to make Indons realize who they really are...

Indons are already get used to be brainwashed by Suharto. When the brainwashing suddenly stopped, it is just like people throw cold water to Javanese who are having good dream in their sleep. When they woke up, they don't like the realities, they want to come back to sleep, having good dreams.

But, life doesn't work that way.

You cannot keep brainwashing yourselves forever.

You need to deal the problems and face the facts.



ataturk
^ Haha.. Comparing Javanese with Nazis are the most ridicilous thing I've heard so far. You never fail to amuse me.

The Javanese culture is as different and as far away you can get from Germanic Nazi culture. The Javanese people are well-known for being low-profile and lacking in any kind of chauvinism.

Imagine, despite making-up 60% of Indonesia's population, Javanese language was never forced to be national language.

Compare this with Adolf Hitler who seek to "Germanize" Europe and seek to exterminate people just because they have non-Germanic cultural or racial background (Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Slavs, basically anyone not German).

With regards to brainwashing, I suggest you stop brainwashing yourself with your infantile hate for Javanese and Indonesians. Deal with the fact that Indonesia is the world's 15th largest economy in the world with one of the fastest growth rate, fuelled mostly by Indonesians' own domestic consumption. Indonesia is also the world's third-largest democracy despite the initial difficulties of the post-Suharto years. That's why Indonesia is widely praised by the international community as a success story.

You need to get over your irrational hatred and face the facts.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.