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Arash







URUMQI, China (AFP) - After years of controversy and political intrigue, archaeologists using genetic testing have proven that Caucasians roamed China's Tarim Basin 1,000 years before East Asian people arrived.

The research, which the Chinese government has appeared to have delayed making public out of concerns of fueling Uighur Muslim separatism in its western-most Xinjiang region, is based on a cache of ancient dried-out corpses that have been found around the Tarim Basin in recent decades.

"It is unfortunate that the issue has been so politicized because it has created a lot of difficulties," Victor Mair, a specialist in the ancient corpses and co-author of "Mummies of the Tarim Basin", told AFP.

"It would be better for everyone to approach this from a purely scientific and historical perspective."

The discoveries in the 1980s of the undisturbed 4,000-year-old "Beauty of Loulan" and the younger 3,000-year-old body of the "Charchan Man" are legendary in world archaeological circles for the fine state of their preservation and for the wealth of knowledge they bring to modern research.

In historic and scientific circles the discoveries along the ancient Silk Road were on a par with finding the Egyptian mummies.

But China's concern over its rule in restive Xinjiang has widely been perceived as impeding faster research into them and greater publicity of the findings.

The desiccated corpses, which avoided natural decomposition due to the dry atmosphere and alkaline soils in the Tarim Basin, have not only given scientists a look into their physical biologies, but their clothes, tools and burial rituals have given historians a glimpse into life in the Bronze Age.

Mair, who played a pivotal role in bringing the discoveries to Western scholars in the 1990s, has worked tirelessly to get Chinese approval to take samples out of China for definitive genetic testing.

One expedition in recent years succeeded in collecting 52 samples with the aide of Chinese researchers, but later Mair's hosts had a change of heart and only let five of them out of the country.

"I spent six months in Sweden last year doing nothing but genetic research," Mair said from his home in the United States where he teaches at the University of Pennsylvania.

"My research has shown that in the second millennium BC, the oldest mummies, like the Loulan Beauty, were the earliest settlers in the Tarim Basin.

"From the evidence available, we have found that during the first 1,000 years after the Loulan Beauty, the only settlers in the Tarim Basin were Caucasoid."

East Asian peoples only began showing up in the eastern portions of the Tarim Basin about 3,000 years ago, Mair said, while the Uighur peoples arrived after the collapse of the Orkon Uighur Kingdom, largely based in modern day Mongolia, around the year 842.

"Modern DNA and ancient DNA show that Uighurs, Kazaks, Krygyzs, the peoples of Central Asia are all mixed Caucasian and East Asian. The modern and ancient DNA tell the same story," he said.

Mair hopes to publish his new findings in the coming months.

China has only allowed the genetic studies in the last few years, with a 2004 study carried out by Jilin University also finding that the mummies' DNA had Europoid genes, further proving that the earliest settlers of Western China were not East Asians.

In the preface to the 2002 book, "Ancient Corpses of Xinjiang," written by Chinese archeologist Wang Huabing, the Chinese historian and Sanskrit specialist Ji Xianlin soundly denounced the use of the mummies by Uighur separatists as proof that Xinjiang should not belong to China.

"What has stirred up the most excitement in academic circles, both in the East and the West, is the fact that the ancient corpses of 'white (Caucasoid/Europid) people' have been excavated," Jin wrote.

"However, within China a small group of ethnic separatists have taken advantage of this opportunity to stir up trouble and are acting like buffoons, (styling) themselves the descendants of these ancient 'white people' with the aim of dividing the motherland."

Further on, in an apparent swipe at the government's lack of eagerness to acknowledge the science and publicize it to the world, Ji wrote that "a scientist may not distort facts for political reasons, religious reasons, or any other reason".

Meanwhile, Yingpan Man, a nearly perfectly preserved 2,000-year-old Caucasoid mummy, was only this month allowed to leave China for the first time, and is being displayed at the Tokyo Edo Museum.

The Yingpan Man, discovered in 1995 in the region that bears his name, has been seen as the best preserved of all the undisturbed mummies that have so far been found.

Yingpan Man not only had a gold foil death mask -- a Greek tradition -- covering his blonde bearded face, but also wore elaborate golden embroidered red and maroon garments with seemingly Western European designs.

His nearly 2.00 meter (six-foot, six-inch) long body is the tallest of all the mummies found so far and the clothes and artifacts discovered in the surrounding tombs suggest the highest level of Caucasoid civilization in the ancient Tarim Basin region.

When the Yingpan Man returns from Tokyo to Urumqi where he has long been kept out of public eye, he is expected to be finally put on display when the new Xinjiang Museum opens this year.

China has hundreds of the mummies in various degrees of dessication and decomposition, including the prominent Han Chinese warrior Zhang Xiong and other Uighur mummies.

However, only a dozen or so are on permanent display in a makeshift building until the new museum is completed.
KimJongIL
Celts in China?
GentleWind
Can East Asians have Europoid genes
Arash
QUOTE(GentleWind @ Jan 24 2008, 12:53 PM) [snapback]3446579[/snapback]
Can East Asians have Europoid genes


People as far as India have Caucasian genes. But I think it stops there.
amir_the_man
the mummies are Tocharian, the eastern most indo europeans, they lived similar to indo iranians and were probably in contact with them, but they had their own language group withen the indo european language.

they probably looked similar to iranian nomads and mostly had dark hair and eyes, with a minority of medium brown and red brown(this also occures in iranians and afghans) connecting them to modern northern european is to much of strech they are most likely closely related to iranian nomads which can be european looking with lighter pigmentation.

the tocharians were taken over by nomadic turks or displaced into more western regions.
tujue
^Accualy The Uygurs in the south show more Caucasian feature due to the Tochorian admixture the last 'pure' tochorian villeage in East Turkestan was untill the 8th century if i'm not mistaken



but they have nothing to do with celts shrug.gif
Scheme
Well, a bunch of Han people live there now, along with some minorities. I won't be able to kiss a tocharian princesses hand, oh well no love get life
tujue
accualy the Hans are the second largest ethnic group there next to the Uygurs
tujue
double post
Jor
QUOTE
Caucasians were in China 1000 years before Asians


Not what article says, stupid whiteboy
Go back to using your head for an @$$-toy
Henry123
"Caucasians were in China 1000 years before Asians"

I agree with Jor. Thats not what the article says.

Arash totally made that insertion up.
jiggyiggy
roflmao, this is coming from the guy who says that theres no such thing as race.
Arash
QUOTE(jiggyiggy @ Jan 25 2008, 05:05 AM) [snapback]3447931[/snapback]
roflmao, this is coming from the guy who says that theres no such thing as race.


There isn't. Just showing ethnic migration patterns.


Jor,

QUOTE
Caucasians roamed China's Tarim Basin 1,000 years before East Asian people arrived.


Well maybe it doesn't refer to China as a whole. But still. Pretty interesting.
dude543
i've heard they had to do with celts because of the language being of the western division of indo european as opposed to the eastern iranian ones, and something to do with the clothing style, but i don't really buy it. still it's interesting how they ended up so far away from their relative
jiggyiggy
QUOTE(Arash @ Jan 24 2008, 04:23 PM) [snapback]3447960[/snapback]
There isn't. Just showing ethnic migration patterns.
Jor,


Now you are just engaging in hypocritical race denialism. It's degenerate thinking(from my POV), just like dude454's(or whatever his name is) ethno-racial fantasies, amir's antagonistic racialism, and the combination of things that infects Aerain's brain.
Arash
QUOTE(jiggyiggy @ Jan 25 2008, 09:27 AM) [snapback]3448420[/snapback]
Now you are just engaging in hypocritical race denialism. It's degenerate thinking(from my POV), just like dude454's(or whatever his name is) ethno-racial fantasies, amir's antagonistic racialism, and the combination of things that infects Aerain's brain.


Aha sure.gif
han2
QUOTE
the mummies are Tocharian, the eastern most indo europeans, they lived similar to indo iranians and were probably in contact with them, but they had their own language group withen the indo european language.

they probably looked similar to iranian nomads and mostly had dark hair and eyes, with a minority of medium brown and red brown(this also occures in iranians and afghans) connecting them to modern northern european is to much of strech they are most likely closely related to iranian nomads which can be european looking with lighter pigmentation.

the tocharians were taken over by nomadic turks or displaced into more western regions.


QUOTE
^Accualy The Uygurs in the south show more Caucasian feature due to the Tochorian admixture the last 'pure' tochorian villeage in East Turkestan was untill the 8th century if i'm not mistaken
but they have nothing to do with celts shrug.gif


The majority of the Tocharian, sometimes also called the Yuezhi were driven out of the tarim basin by the Xiongnu (Huns), and they ended up establishing the Kushan empire, which was located in present day Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and down into the Ganges river valley in northern India.

The tarim basin mummy is kinda old news, btw... icon_wink.gif

DutchEastIndiesMan
This is just a misunderstanding... Jiggyiggy You don't need to be insulting..

Btw this is a very interesting news...Have you guys heard of the 100 Roman Legions That ran to China and founded a city ??
han2
QUOTE
Btw this is a very interesting news...Have you guys heard of the 100 Roman Legions That ran to China and founded a city ??

^^ last time i read up on it, it was a hoax, lol...

most probably some of those people in that town got their west eurasian features from the tocharians, who used to live as far as what's now called the Gansu province.

GreyFox

I can't recall clearly which one, but either the History Channel or National Geographic did a documentary on this already. And DNA evidence said that these mummies are not of pure Indo-European stock as people have thought. According to the program, their genetic make-up were diverse with multi-ethnic stock.
DutchEastIndiesMan
QUOTE(han2 @ Jan 25 2008, 12:01 PM) [snapback]3448642[/snapback]
^^ last time i read up on it, it was a hoax, lol...

most probably some of those people in that town got their west eurasian features from the tocharians, who used to live as far as what's now called the Gansu province.


Really...?? ohh ok thx bro..
tujue
QUOTE(han2 @ Jan 25 2008, 03:44 AM) [snapback]3448583[/snapback]
The majority of the Tocharian, sometimes also called the Yuezhi were driven out of the tarim basin by the Xiongnu (Huns), and they ended up establishing the Kushan empire, which was located in present day Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and down into the Ganges river valley in northern India.

The tarim basin mummy is kinda old news, btw... icon_wink.gif




Yeah I think I read it 2 years ago


Kurgan Graves
amir_the_man
QUOTE(jiggyiggy @ Jan 24 2008, 08:27 PM) [snapback]3448420[/snapback]
Now you are just engaging in hypocritical race denialism. It's degenerate thinking(from my POV), just like dude454's(or whatever his name is) ethno-racial fantasies, amir's antagonistic racialism, and the combination of things that infects Aerain's brain.

the only time i have ever being hostile to a certain group in these forums is to Mongolians and that is not because of their race, it's because of their backwards mind set, and how they glorify the killing millions by their violence crazed ancestors.

i am in fact the most unracist person you ll find in this forum.
N2AGreySkyMorning
This is old. Who cares.
jiggyiggy
Lol amir, racialism is a different phenomena then racism, even though the two are often tied together. It doesn't take a shrink to figure out what's going on inside your head.
dude543
oh no they found out that they were of mixed stock? noooooo

lol jk. but probably by the time of the kushans they were heavily mixed
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