Once upon a time, there was a beautiful river. It was called Sungei Melayu. It flowed in Jambi, Sumatra, into a bigger river called Sungei Batang ihari. Sungei Melayu became the cradle of the Jambi kingdom, also called the Melayu kingdom. The Melayu kingdom was incorporated into Srivijaya, whose centre was in nearby Palembang, in 685 AD. In 1088, however, the Melayu kingdom under king Dharmasraya made a 'reverse takeover' of the Palembang kingdom, i.e. conquered it's former master, n thus became the new centre of Srivijaya, until 1288.

However, there were already several earlier Malay kingdoms long before that time, even well (a few centuries) before the Melayu kingdom in Jambi, in the Malay Peninsula/Isthmus, such as the Kedah, Pattani, Ligor, Kelantan, Terengganu n Pahang kingdoms, collectively allied as the Langkasuka Federation, beginning in the 1st century AD. There were also the Bruas n Gangga Negara kingdoms in the west coast, as well as the Gelanggi kingdom in the south. They were all contemporary with early Funan n early Champa. During Funan's golden age, the Kedah, Pattani, Ligor, Kelantan, Terengganu n Pahang kingdoms all paid homage to Funan as a more powerful, brother Malay kingdom. Funan was then like the centre of a loosely allied empire, much like Srivijaya's Palembang, which was modelled after it, a few centuries later.

Funan was a Malay kingdom from 1 st century AD until 550 AD, when it collapsed completely n was conquered n absorbed by the neighbouring Khmer kingdom of Chenla to its north. Champa lingered on until 1750, when it was completely conquered by Khmers n Viets, outlasting the much later Melaka kingdom by 239 years.

The Malay kingdoms of Kedah, Pattani, Ligor, Kelantan, Terengganu, Pahang, Bruas, Gangga Negara, n Gelanggi kingdoms in the Malay Peninsula/Isthmus, the Funan n Champa kingdoms, as well as the Melayu kingdom in Jambi, Sumatra, n their peoples, are all descendants of the DESCENDANTS of ancient king Marayu n his tribe of the Arakan kingdom, many thousands of years ago, who had worked their way further east n south into the rest of SEA after transitting in the Arakan region for a few hundred years, after coming there from Yunnan.

How long more will the Malay peoples survive? Your guess is as good as mine. Let's hope, at least for another 10,000 years.

Continuing the story:

Some time before the Malay kingdom of Funan collapsed completely in 550 AD, with the death of Malay king Rudravarman without a Malay heir to take over, several young princesses of Rudravarman, along with his young Malay queen, their mother, had already made their escape to Pattani. This was to avoid any untoward actions by Bhavavarman n Chitrasena, the two 1/4 Malay, 3/4 Khmer grandsons of Rudravarman by his Khmer concubine, who had seized Funan n incorporated it into Bhava's Khmer kingdom of Chenla.

One princess married into the Pattani royal house. Another 2 went south along the Malay Peninsula, n sailed across the sea with their warrior escorts. Of this two, one went to Java, n the other went to Sumatra.

The princess who wed the Pattani prince bore children whose progeny later eventually became the sultans of Kelantan n Terengganu. As for the one who went to Java, her distant descendants ended up marrying into one of the Javanese royal houses, from which arose the Sailendra dynasty in 750 AD. The fate of the one who went to Sumatra was not known.

Sailendra rose to become a powerful but short-lived kingdom, a bit like the Melaka kingdom 7 centuries later. In 832 AD, Rakai Pikatan (also called Jatiningrat), crown prince of neighbouring Sanjaya kingdom, married Pramowardhani, daughter of king Samaratungga, Sailendra's last king. When Samaratungga died in 850 AD, Rakai Pikatan seized the Sailendra throne n usurped the Sailendra kingdom. Samaratungga's infant son, Balaputra, whose mother was a Srivijayan princess, was taken into refuge into the forest. 18 years later, Balaputra attempted to regain his throne, but his attempt failed.

Balaputra fled to Palembang n eventually became king of Srivijaya, when the old king died. From the the line of Balaputra was born Srivijaya's last prince, Parameswara, several centuries later, who fled to Melaka when Palembang was attacked by Javanese invaders. Parameswara eventually became the 1st king of the Melaka kingdom.

One question: do you even know what's the meaning of "dirgahayu"?

See, i told u before Bhas, the Malays have a malaise... they have such an irrational fear of their own extinction, it's almost like a paranoia. That's why they behave the way they do, with brittle arrogance towards everybody, including their compadres in Indonesia. They can't change their attitudes to non-Malays like Chinese and Indians cuz the cultures of these non-Malays are the deep-rooted cause of the Malay malaise.

I don't see what to be afraid of. Indian and Chinese influences are deeply rooted in almost every culture in Asia, even the world too

It's a malaise.. inexplicable disease.. that's why

Bhask, you still underrate me. At your own peril. Of course I do. Dirgahayu, as in "Dirgahayu, Sultan kami," "Dirgahayu, Tanah Airku," "Dirgahayu, Pertiwiku," "Dirgahayu, Langkasuka," etc. etc. etc.

Uh uh. Nope. Nein. Nyet. Sorrryyy. It's not about malaise. It's not about fear. It's about being realistic. Being pragmatic. Preventive management.

Many nations have fallen. Glorious nations in their own time. Been defeated, conquered, absorbed n assimilated by others. Been relegated to the dustbin of history. Although in certain cases, their names still live on to enthrall us.

The Trojans. The Hittites. The Mittani. The Medeans (some of their descendants r still struggling without a state to this day, i.e the Kurds) who have been absorbed by the Persians.

In more recent times, the Palestinians. They were defeated by a people who were formerly recent immigrants to their country. Even if the ancestors of the immigrants once lived there.

Closer to home, the Chams. The Pattani nation.

It's good to have a HEALTHY degree of distrust. Of insecurity. If it keeps you on your toes.

My turn now. Do you know the meaning of Borobodur? The full meaning.

If you have Chinese forming 25%, n Indians forming 7%, of your population, in Java, or Sumatra, or the entire Indonesia, then maybe, just maybe, you'll just begin to understand.

DH, Hope you can change your mind .... to be more positive and open minded ...

It would be better If you and other Malays can treat Chinese and Indians as your assets or friends because they are Malaysians too .....
Don't underestimate them because their "determinations" are "required" to build your country ...

get busy and have baby, and you might understand as well

You're right pidah!! For first time, you do talk some senses.....but please ..just a friendly reminder..make sure your 10-year old democracy sticks..we don't want you to slump back into the Old Disorder, do we?

Everbody has a malaise, not just the Malays, otherwise the world is a boring place to live! Trouble with people like you is that you always think that the Chinese culture is more deep-rooted, hence more superior than the cultures of other peole, including the Malay culture...no wonder, history has shown that wherever the Chinese had migrated to, they were resented, even violently so, and with some countries actually enacting special laws against the Chinese...in America, Canada, Australia, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines....the only difference between us and those other countries is that we never treated the Chinese as those countries had done.....we even gave Singapore to the Chinese....if you're Chinese, better you learn about the history of the world's overseas Chinese before you keep on peddling your Chinese cultural superiority craps!! Chinese culture superior? Why not call yourself the chosen people...like the Jews!!

Come on then Bhask. You ain't answered me yet. I've answered your question on 'Dirgahayu'. Now tell me, that's if you know it, what's the meaning of 'Borobodur'? Give me it's full meaning. I'll accept nothing less from an Indonesian.

actually you haven't. you only gave more examples of the usage of 'dirgahayu' without explaining the meaning of the word.

^word
You can't hide the fact that you don't understand the meaning of it, because your using of the word is all wrong in that sentence. "Dirgahayu Melayu" is a very weird sentence indeed.

And about Borobudur.... dude, I came from an area rich with Buddhist culture, we even have our own ancient Buddhist structure (even if it's nothing beside the grandeur of Borobudur). Unlike Malaysia, we don't feel the need to cover it up with Islamic values. Our Buddhist tradition believes that the name was derived from sambarabudhara, but it has other meaning in old Javanese, either way is fine to me. We don't call it "the vihara of the highland" for nothing

Oh yeah! We are. We are. Don't you worry about that one. So come 2050, or 2040, Malay/Bumiputera will rise to 85% of overall Malaysian population, Chinese will drop to 10% n Indians will drop to 3%.

Now then, that new girl in my friend's office. She looks like she's got nice motherly qualities. N she's quite cute too. N whaaat a body! Yessss, she'd make a fine 2nd wife for anybody.

Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink. Say no more, say no more.

I don't think anybody here feels that the Chinese culture is more deep rooted then the Malay Culture. Most people here as far as I can tell don't care too much about where culture originates from except as far as I can tell the Malays. To me it seems some Malays here also place a very high importance on the "greatness" of the Malay Empires of the past. To be honest to me thats fine but thats all in the past, the today is more important then the past. So all the countries you mentioned above, none of them currently have laws agaisnt Chinese people, its still only in Malaysia where there is still institutionalised discrimination. Who here has said anything about "Chinese Cultural Superiority", how can you even have one culture that is superior to another, how do you even begin to "grade" one culture against another, what standards do you use to judge one culture as being better then another?

Finally stop trying to show how generous Malays were in "giving" Singapore to the Chinese. Firstly, Singapore was "given" to the British when a greedy Malay prince sold out his own people for his own selfish desires, to be the Sultan of Johor. The Chinese then came and settled in Singapore. The Chinese being the majority race in Singapore has nothing to do with the generosity of Malays. Don't try to rewrite history!!

The only people on this forum who think they are superior have been the Malays not the Chinese. Malays here still try to defend that "special" status as the "natives" of Malaysia. The Chinese here have never asked for special prevelidges, only equal rights. Malays on the otherhand continually defend their special standing and the rights of Islam over other religions. So tell me which of these groups think they are the "chosen people"?

Of course it ain't weird. We've understood 'Dirgahayu' n used it in our own sense. For many centuries. Hey, our ancestors spoke Sanskrit too, you know.

As for 'Borobodur', now then. Gotcha.

Just 'sambarabudhara' ain't complete. 'Borobodur' is the Javanese abbreviation for 'Bhumi Sambhara Buddhara'. Thus, from 'Bhu ra Buddhar', it was Javanised to 'Bo ro Bodur'.

See? Now I gotcha.

Err, nope, you got nothing. Adding "bhumi" would almost be as silly as your use of dirgahayu, it just doesn't make any sense. Javanese don't have the tradition to abbreviate prior to the establishment of Indonesian government, and Borobudur has a diffferent meaning in Old Javanese.

Still, you haven't come up with the exact meaning of dirgahayu. C'mon, give it to us already. Everybody can see that you never mention the meaning of the word but kept on insisting that you know the word. Weird. Dilly-dallying aren't you? Waiting until your little research came up with your desired result, aren't you?

Can u read English?

Please read my post again, where did i say that the chinese culture is more deep-rooted? I said the Malays have a deep-rooted fear of the Hindu and Chinese cultures.

It's so deep-rooted this fear that it's become a disease that has eaten up otherwise your sense of self-respect and esteem.

If u can only feel secure by fueling this deep-rooted fear, I can only say one thing to u....

YOU ARE SUCH A LOSER.

Wrong again, Doc. As usual for you. Maybe that's cos you just can't stop SWINGING around, from this viewpoint to that viewpoint, from that logic tree to this logic tree, so that you never cease from confusing yourself, forever getting lost in your own stupid thoughts.

Another idiotic theory from you, as expected: 'greedy prince sold out his own people'. For your enlightenment (I don't know, perhaps you're just beyond being enlightened), it was the Brits who played out the Johore prince n 'chilokked' his signature to get Singapura island. If you don't believe me, go see the Johore Sultan. He's still got the records of what actually happened.

As for 'equality', sorry Doc. We can't give out 'equal' rights. Only 'equitable' rights. No matter how many centuries more your people keep whining for it.

Bhask. For your own benefit, I think you should consider that refresher language class on Sanskrit.

Don't need to. We use Sanskrit words on daily basis.

So you think the Sultan of Johor is going to admit that is own ancestor sold out their own people and his own brother to the British? So if the British 'chilokked'(whatever this means) his signiture, why did Hussein Shah become the Sultan of Johor instead of his older brother Abdul Rahman? So why did Hussein Shah not give back the throne to his older brother, the rightful ruler of Johor? Why did the British support the younger brother to the throne? Do you seriously believe that the British would support the younger brother for nothing in return? You mean to suggest that Raffles somehow "liked" the younger brother more, or maybe they were just feeling generous to the younger brother that day? Maybe Raffles and Hussein Shah were sitting down to a cup of tea after doing a spot of hunting and Raffles says "Hey old boy, sorry about what happened to dad but why don't we support you in becoming the next Sultan of Johor. No, no you don't have to give us anything in return, we just feel like being generous today." And then later the British happen to 'chilokked' his signature? Are you so gullible that you believe something that is so illogical?

Before you start throwing personal insults around and accusing someone else of being illogical look at your own sense of logic. If you choose to believe a version of history from someone who has something to hide and from a series of events that makes no sense, they you only have yourself and your own stupidity to blame.



You see Esfandiari, there are Malays who think they are the "chosen" people.

malay have no right to become chosen people ,this is baseless.malay are chosen babi.

I want to correct a mistake I made. Abdul Rahman was the younger brother who was supported by the Dutch, he was the Sultan of Johor because apparently he was by his fathers side when his father died making him the next in line to become Johors Sultan. I wasn't aware that by Malay tradition the next ruler of the Sultunate had to be beside the dying Sultan to succed the throne. Hussein Shah was the older brother who was supported by the British.

So I apologise I was factually incorrect.

The point I'm making though is the same, Sultan Hussein Shah made a deal with the British, he gave them Singapore in return for their support in him assending the throne.

First n foremost, 'malaysiatakboleh' is now banned. As of this moment. HE can now go n engorge HIMSELF on as much 'babi' as HE likes. N HE can continue to behave as that 'babi' HE eats.

So now Doc, you've actually started talking to yourself. Gone senile or what?

No, I acknowledge when I am wrong and I apologise for my mistakes.

So, do you still think the Sultan of Johor was 'chilokked', whatever this means?

What an admirable gesture, doc. Just don't expect a certain someone to match your honorable deed

I am stll here ,malay babi.

It seems lots of Malaysian chinese nationalities would rather leave the country then stay put to fight for equal rights in their own nation.

Heck, there's even a chinese fellow who is close to Mahathir who wrote an entire book justifying why the New Economic Policy must continue for the Malays not to feel socially castrated by the Hindus and Chinese..

Thanks Dream, u make me understand and appreciate now that this deep-rooted fear or malaise the Malays have is akin to a fear of social castration.

And they have been harbouring this fear since way back when they were pursued by the Javanese princelings in the olden days...

And it's only such a fear that can continue to fuel such a childish yet bullying attitude on their subjects in their realm.

Most of the Chinese Malaysians who have left, left with a heavy heart. Certainly for my family and the majority of families I have come in contact with, it was a big and difficult decision to make. The worst thing for Chinese in Malaysia is not simply the discrimination but the apparent attitude a significant majority of Malays view non Malays. So far bar Malaccan every other Malay person here justifies the discrimination even suggesting that non Malays should be greatful for the way they are discriminated against. The only justification for this attitude is the apparent fear that Malays might end up being politically dominated. There has never been an instance particularly recently where this has even been a remote possibility. Malays are the majority race and can never be politically supressed. No political party can ever control Malaysia without the support of a significant proportion of the Malay community. But to be honest it shouldn't matter who runs Malaysia as long as they do a good and fair job. The leaders of Malaysia should be determined by ability and not who their parents are and the leaders should be looking after the welfare of Malaysia and not simply the welfare of their own race.

The Chinese are leaving because without the support of Malays the situation in Malaysia will not change. And the attitude of Malays towards the Chinese has in my opinion been getting worse rather then better, as a result I can't see things improving for non Malays in the forseeable future. In fact I see things getting worse.

stfu, twerp
if u have nothing better to call others animal names, go back to your farm and feed instead.



Ok Swingdoc, so you think Chinese are being socially & economically castrated in Malaysia?

Why don't the Chinese n Indians become part of a grand unified version of the Malaysian Malay?

Is an unitary Malay identity such a bad thing to envision? Why?

Does it mean conversion to Islam? If so, that sux cuz religion should not form part of the issue of identity.

They want fellow Indonesians to join them in this unitary Malay identity. Why not the other way around?? That Malay unitary identity joins up with the Indonesian unitary identity??? quit splitting hairs dudes? you are all the same -- lovers of spicy food!!

I wonder if they would extend the same invitation to Singaporean Malays and Chinese and Indians too?

In Singapore, the identity of the Peranakan Chinese is on the ascendent. there's always been a rivalry between the FOB pure chinese and the established peranakan chinese who have a long lineage in SE Asia. The Peranakan Chinese may consider themselves as part of this unitary Malay identity right? After all, their dress, food and language closely resembles the original Malay customs. Except when it comes to gods, death and marriage.

Can the unitary Malay or Indonesian identity hv NOTHING to do with religion, death and marriage rites? Can they just limit it to the essential things like dress food and language??

Howabout doing away with the unitarian term Malay or Indonesian, and just stick to something neutral and more poetic instead? The Spice Islanders????

Lmao, a bule friend of mine had a better suggestion: "the place with hot women"

^ okaaaaaaaaay, "place of hot girls" sound corny, howabout the


Islands of Spicey Girls???

I won't throw brickbats at Esfan just yet. As long as we’re still most of the time allies here. He he he.

As for the thread detour, it's just like when you ambled along to that Mamak stall, then sat down, thinking intently of having a ‘mee goreng’. But then you suddenly see some guy, sitting at just the next table, slurping on a hot ‘Maggie soup’. With nice, tasty-looking chicken inside. N it looks really goooddd. Yum, yum. Slurp, slurp. Drool, drool. Now, are you still going ahead with your ‘mee goreng’? Now then ...

Now, just for our so called 'East Indian' ‘non-Malay’ cousins who r so indignantly, vehemently, against us calling them our "Malay' brothers, now I have for us, just a wee humble proposal here. Say, how about you all give those Malay n Malay-related peoples in Aceh, Sulawesi, Riau, Kalimantan Barat, n Western Indonesia the independence that they so crave? N then one fine day, when all the dust has settled, we can consider some restructuring of our Malay/Javanese/Indonesian/Nusantara Archipelago. Instead of you still clinging on to them like fish to weed, perhaps you should give them a more open option, including the choice of joining us, their Malay brothers across the sea.

Spicey Girls? Ummmm. Lemme think ...

Somehow the thought of having my sausage dipped in hot spicy stuff seems ... somewhat ... a bit scary. He he he.

hmmm.... i thought u were socially castrated as a group fearing your own extinction??? how comes u are talking abt sausages in spice now??? ahahahahahahhaha...

macam bangsa kau bagus sangat

Tell you what, Tanga. If we can just have that 'body-to-body transmission of soul' massage, that you were talking about that time, just you n me, then we can discuss that a bit further. He he he.

Reading some of the posts here I get the impression that Malays see themselves as Muslims first, Malays second and Malaysians third. They see this identity as being important and are not willing to accept change. This makes assimilation difficult because it means "become us otherwise we can never be united". they also make it seem that it is important that their distinction as being "natives" of Malaysia remain exclusive and irrespective of how long Indians and Chinese live in Malaysia they will never be given the same classification.

Chinese and Indians are being marginalised in Malaysia, this is not an opinion this is a fact, and its getting worse and reading the justification that is being used, I can't see things improving for the minority groups in Malaysia.

I dooooon't waaaaant.... u are a pervert!!!

Not only that, u have no self-confidence in being a Malay without making non-malays feel like u are a Malay supremacist! Who wants to be have a body-to-body transmission with an obvious loser in life??? ahahahaha...

Naaaahhh. I's just testing ya. He he he.

We're not supremacists, Tanga. Neither r we fascists. We're just defenders. Defending a heritage passed down from generation to generation. Beginning from our earliest ancestors of 2000 years ago n more. From which we have learnt many lessons.

Could we do any less? Nope. Nein. Nyet. Tidak. Iie. Mo. Illek. Sorrrryyyyyyy.

Well, Doc. They've got 2 choices. Assimilate fully n totally. Or continue being marginalised That's just the way it works. Anywhere you go in the world.

Assimilation is not solution, I'd rather like separation like currently applied in Malaysia. Look at Indonesia, Philippines and Thailand, they Chinese over there are fully assimilated into local Javanese or Philippines or Thai culture. They can not even speak Chinese anymore and use Javanese or Spanish/Philippines or Thai last name, but tension often occurred between those chinese and native on those countries especially Indonesia and Philippines. The assimilation also does not stop the chinese to plunder those countries' resources by bribing corrupt local enforcements on those countries. Just check foreigners who bought majority properties in Singapore and keep save their money in Singapore bank rather than In their host countries, majority are chinese Indonesian. Majority Indons, Thai and Pinoys are become chinese slave in their countries due their corrupt enforcements who sell out their own country in trade with kickback money offered by those "assimilated" chinese.

Genuine assimilation, not just wearing kain sarung n baju kurung, will be ok.

So are peranakans genuinely assimilated in your books?? we only wear baju kurung and cook a helluva lot of spicy stuff but we still sembayang to our tau pek kongs, is that okay ???