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tangawizi
QUOTE
Indonesia: Muslim bridge-builder?

Israel's deputy foreign minister has called on Indonesia to play a more active role in the Middle East. The BBC's Lucy Williamson in Jakarta asks whether the government will listen.

This month, a letter appeared in Indonesia's main English-language newspaper.

It was signed by Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister Majalli Whbee and it called on Indonesia to expand its role in the Middle East, and to engage more with the challenges facing the Muslim world.

This might come as something of a surprise, given that Indonesia has no diplomatic relations with Israel.

It also happens to be the world's most populous Muslim country, is a member of Opec and enjoys good relations with Iran and Syria.

But Indonesia is the kind of Muslim country many western nations and their allies feel comfortable with - it is democratic, pluralist, and has had real success in tackling Islamic extremism.

No wonder some people see it as an ideal candidate to bridge the gaps between the Muslim world and the West.

To some extent, it is already involved in that dialogue. Indonesia took part in last year's Middle East peace conference in Annapolis, and is working on capacity-building programmes for the Palestinians.

But given its size and political spread, could it do more? Should it have a more prominent role in issues like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or Iran's nuclear programme?

'Active neutrality'

One of those who thinks it should is Wimar Witoelar, a former Indonesian presidential spokesman. He believes Jakarta is well-placed to talk to countries like Iran, and that the US should be asking for its help.

Indonesia, he says, has a made a virtue out of being "actively neutral" - a policy first introduced by Sukarno, the country's first president.



"At that time," says Witoelar, "it applied to communism and the West; now it applies equally to Muslim countries and the West."

There is support too from the Indonesian public for a more assertive role, particularly in the Middle East.

A straw poll on the streets of Jakarta found that more than half the people we talked to wanted Indonesia to support the Palestinians - with money or even troops - "because they are Muslims".





Religious identity in Indonesia is growing - the number of people wearing the headscarf has been rising for decades.



And while most Indonesians are proud of their pluralist democracy, they also feel a personal, emotional connection to the situations in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Palestinian Territories.

But is domestic desire for a greater role for Indonesia mirrored among Muslims in Pakistan, or Kosovo, or Egypt?

Broadly, the answer appears to be no.

Most Muslim countries around the world still look to the Middle East for leadership.

Religion 'not enough'

While Israel would like to see Indonesia use its democratic, Muslim weight in the region, Arab countries tend to see it as distant, different and lacking in religious authority.

US officials privately agree that Indonesia's influence in the region is limited.



As the BBC's Middle East analyst Magdi Abdelhadi points out, Indonesia has neither the historical weight of a country like Turkey nor the economic leverage of the Gulf.

Religion is simply not enough. To have any kind of real influence Indonesia would need to bridge thousands of kilometres, as well as gulfs in history, culture and language.

Playing a role as a Muslim power simply is not high enough on the government's agenda for leaders to attempt it.

Indonesia's foreign policy is much more focused on its economic and political role in South East Asia, and even its links with Africa, than with the Middle East.

The country's role in global peace and security comes 18th on its list of foreign policy objectives. Islam never gets a mention at all.

The reason is that the government - unlike some of its voters - does not like to see things in terms of religion.

Non-emotional consultants

Analysts like Anak Agung Banyu Perwitz point to Jakarta's unwillingness throughout most of its history to label its foreign policy decisions with an Islamic tag.

He details how Indonesia has supported all UN resolutions calling for the withdrawal of Israel from the occupied territories, and opposed the latest US invasion of Iraq.

But he says such actions have always been justified in terms of political pragmatism, economic development, or anti-colonialism - not Islam.

For example, with Israel, public opinion is seen to be strongly against opening diplomatic relations.

The foreign ministry has confirmed that Indonesia will never have diplomatic relations with Israel before the creation of a Palestinian state.

But the reason, it says, is not the Islamic outrage you can find expressed in homes and coffee shops, but the anti-colonial commitment enshrined in the country's constitution.

Indonesia's weight in the Middle East may be reduced as a result of this attitude.

But Wimar Witoelar believes it is this very quality that is Indonesia's unique selling point.

He admits that his country does not have the influence to tackle the big issues by itself and likens his country's role to that of consultants.



"We're useful because we use our mass in a non-emotional way."
jrockerz
QUOTE
But he says such actions have always been justified in terms of political pragmatism, economic development, or anti-colonialism - not Islam.



correct $$$.

most of people in Indonesia believe Zionism is a part of western colonialism.
DutchEastIndiesMan
Good news....Finally someone has help me promoting Israel in Indonesia.... laugh.gif
furansizuka
QUOTE
"We're useful because we use our mass in a non-emotional way."

I like this.
DutchEastIndiesMan
^^ I'm sorry Furrie can you pls help me to understand that ?? or Tanga, anyone ??
Majapahitans
Hmm... interesting, Israel recognize Indonesian influence and wish for more role to be played by Indonesia in Mideast.

But I dunno icon_neutral.gif , Indonesia is known to somehow "reluctant" to play our "Islamic card".
Although we're the nation with largest muslim population, doesn't necesarily have the same magnitude, authority, or influence in mideast and Islamic world, and I think many people do aware of that fact. Actually we enjoy the neutral role we played so far.

Since the beginning of our republic's history it has clearly declared that Indonesia is pluralist nation, "Bhinneka Tunggal Ika" (Unity in Diversity). The extreeme interpretation of Islam such as creating Islamic State of Indonesia/Darul Islam Indonesia/DI-TII (a historic rebellion to create Islamic states was happened in our history) is unpopular idea, even among muslim Indonesian. So historically at some degree, religion-based idea of state often viewed in suspicion. And its already known the Nationalist vs Islamist politics rivalry, even in our current parliament.
tangawizi
@ Majjy, what is the origin of this philosophy "Unity in diversity"?

i have read that it's a hindu concept from antiquity.. because in hinduism, there's so many different deities and different ways of looking at philosophy that they ultimately believe in unity in diversity in their religious outlook

did Indonesia's motto come from their Hindu background?

@ dutch, i think the sentence missed out on a word "mass media"
Kresna
QUOTE(jrockerz @ Feb 29 2008, 04:59 AM) [snapback]3532738[/snapback]
correct $$$.

most of people in Indonesia believe Zionism is a part of western colonialism.

Then they're wrong. The state of Israel is a legitimate state who has done everything in its power to treat Palestinians fairly.
tangawizi
QUOTE(Kresna @ Feb 29 2008, 04:29 PM) [snapback]3533610[/snapback]
Then they're wrong. The state of Israel is a legitimate state who has done everything in its power to treat Palestinians fairly.


Dude, the creation of the State of Israel was just as flawed as the way Papua was given to Indonesia under the United Nation's resolution. If u think Papua is illegally occupied by Indonesia, then Israel is also illegally occupied by the Israelis.
Majapahitans
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Feb 29 2008, 08:17 AM) [snapback]3533588[/snapback]
@ Majjy, what is the origin of this philosophy "Unity in diversity"?

i have read that it's a hindu concept from antiquity.. because in hinduism, there's so many different deities and different ways of looking at philosophy that they ultimately believe in unity in diversity in their religious outlook

did Indonesia's motto come from their Hindu background?


Yes...., the motto "Bhinneka Tunggal Ika" has Hindu-Buddhist syncretism philosophy origin. Its our Hindu-Buddhist past that we hold dearly even if now we're Muslim or Christian. From this formula clearly states that the very nature of Indonesia is a "die-hard pluralist".... rockon.gif

QUOTE
The motto of Indonesia is Bhinneka Tunggal Ika which is Old Javanese and is often loosely translated as 'Unity in Diversity' but literally it means '(Although) in pieces, yet One'.

This is a quotation from an Old Javanese poem kakawin Sutasoma, written by Mpu Tantular during the reign of the Majapahit empire somewhere in the 14th century. Kakawin or Kawya, are epic poems written in Indian metres.

This poem is notable as it promotes tolerance between Hindus (Shivaites) and Buddhists.

Original canto
This quotation comes from canto 139, stanza 5. The full stanza reads as follows:

Rwâneka dhâtu winuwus Buddha Wiswa,
Bhinnêki rakwa ring apan kena parwanosen,
Mangka ng Jinatwa kalawan Siwatatwa tunggal,
Bhinnêka tunggal ika tan hana dharma mangrwa.


Translation
It is said that the well-known Buddha and Shiva are two different substances.
They are indeed different, yet how is it possible to recognise their difference in a glance,
since the truth of Jina (Buddha) and the truth of Shiva is one.
They are indeed different, but they are of the same kind, as there is no duality in Truth.

This translation is based, with minor adaptations, on the critical text edition by Dr. Soewito Santoso.
Kresna
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Feb 29 2008, 02:37 PM) [snapback]3533619[/snapback]
Dude, the creation of the State of Israel was just as flawed as the way Papua was given to Indonesia under the United Nation's resolution. If u think Papua is illegally occupied by Indonesia, then Israel is also illegally occupied by the Israelis.

The earliest Israelis were only following up on decisions made by the UN general assembly. The Palestinians could have had their own state a long time ago, instead they rejected it and decided to wipe out he jews. They are still paying the price for their incompetence of doing so.

The act of free choice in Papua however was rigged from the beginning.
tangawizi
U say the UN resolution for Papua was rigged from the beginning.. well did u know that the UN resolution for Israel was only some 41 states who voted for its creation? 41 out of the current 130 something nation states we have today..

talk about double standards..

Kresna
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Feb 29 2008, 02:53 PM) [snapback]3533634[/snapback]
U say the UN resolution for Papua was rigged from the beginning.. well did u know that the UN resolution for Israel was only some 41 states who voted for its creation? 41 out of the current 130 something nation states we have today..

talk about double standards..

It was a sound majority for the UN of that day. And if a legitimate decision in the worlds most important international body doesn't suffice, we might as well break down international law all together. Under that resolution, the Palestinians could have had their own state with a Jerusalem not governed by jews. They ought to be happy that they're screwed by Israeli's who at least have some sense of morality. Compare that to the apalling situation of Palestinians in Jordan and Syria.
Kresna
To get back to the topic, I don't think Arab states necessarily appreciate Indonesia as a muslim country. For them Indonesia is probably an exotic pagan place where Hindu rituals still exist in Muslim areas. And Indonesia has overcome some vicious interreligious violence the past years. What we don't need is the export of arab/muslim nationalism to Indonesia. I don't see how meddling into the middle east could be good for anyone.
tangawizi
spoken with hindsight no doubt... how would Palestinian leaders then have known ??

anyways the thread is about Papua, and coming back to it, I am unsure if at all, the UN should have ever been an agency for creation of nation states.. that's all i am saying.
tangawizi
Meddling in the Middle East is a BIG mistake for anyone, juz look at the US and UK and all the other European govts who meddled and got voted out (Berlusconi, Aznar)

But I find it interesting that Israel is so keen to have Indonesia take up the role.. they must be giving Indonesia something in return for meddling in ME politics... weaponry? Free visas?
jrockerz
QUOTE(Kresna @ Feb 29 2008, 08:48 AM) [snapback]3533630[/snapback]
The earliest Israelis were only following up on decisions made by the UN general assembly. The Palestinians could have had their own state a long time ago, instead they rejected it and decided to wipe out he jews. They are still paying the price for their incompetence of doing so.

The act of free choice in Papua however was rigged from the beginning.


nope,

QUOTE
Demographer Uziel Schmelz, in his analysis of Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron kazas, found that most Ottoman citizens living in these areas, comprising about one quarter of the population of Palestine, were living at the place where they were born. Specifically, of Muslims, 93.1% were born in their current locality of residence, 5.2% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 1.6% were born outside Palestine. Of Christians, 93.4% were born in their current locality, 3.0% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 3.6% were born outside Palestine. Of Jews (excluding the large fraction who were not Ottoman citizens), 59.0% were born in their current locality, 1.9% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 39.0% were born outside Palestine.[177]


Demographics in Palestine
year Jews Arabs
1800 6,700 268,000
1880 24,000 525,000
1915 87,500 590,000
1931 174,000 837,000
1947 630,000 1,310,000


Palestine jew was in palestine alongside Muslim and christian.



details in occupation 101 icon_smile.gif

bonus


QUOTE
To get back to the topic, I don't think Arab states necessarily appreciate Indonesia as a muslim country. For them Indonesia is probably an exotic pagan place where Hindu rituals still exist in Muslim areas. And Indonesia has overcome some vicious interreligious violence the past years. What we don't need is the export of arab/muslim nationalism to Indonesia. I don't see how meddling into the middle east could be good for anyone.

im agreed with this one, I hope other country understand that our rule is not based/represent single religion.
but this is may explain why indonesia support palestine state :


http://www.rense.com/general31/didyouknow.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandung_Conference
DutchEastIndiesMan
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Feb 29 2008, 11:14 PM) [snapback]3533661[/snapback]
Meddling in the Middle East is a BIG mistake for anyone, juz look at the US and UK and all the other European govts who meddled and got voted out (Berlusconi, Aznar)

But I find it interesting that Israel is so keen to have Indonesia take up the role.. they must be giving Indonesia something in return for meddling in ME politics... weaponry? Free visas?


I think They have already been giving us free weaponry visas and training for the last 50 years or so...

@ Kresna are you a members of OPM or RMS ??
Kresna
QUOTE(DutchEastIndiesMan @ Mar 1 2008, 04:05 AM) [snapback]3535180[/snapback]
@ Kresna are you a members of OPM or RMS ??

No.
Kresna
@jrockerz

I was specifically talking about the partition act, and how attempts were made to destroy Jewish statehood afterwards.
DutchEastIndiesMan
QUOTE(Kresna @ Mar 1 2008, 12:59 PM) [snapback]3535321[/snapback]
No.


ok Good, cool beerchug.gif biggthumpup.gif
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