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tangawizi
This is an extract of a chapter from a book titled "My Thai Girl and I" by a British expat who lives in rural northeast thailand now with his wife. It seems like he got caught up with the romantic idea of living in the countryside in Thailand would be like living in Provence, Southern France or something... please read and let me know your thoughts, is he moaning too much this British expat?


QUOTE
Extract from my forthcoming book, 'My Thai Girl and I'

28. Things Fall Apart
I sometimes wonder if it’s a consequence of ‘Thainess’, of the readiness to say mai pen rai, meaning ‘never mind’ or ‘what the hell’, that the folks round here seem to be irredeemable botchers. Everything’s a mess in the countryside, though to be fair, it’s the same with small farmers everywhere. Tiny farms in rural France are a tangle of broken machinery, nettles and brambles because you haven’t time for anything fancy when you work a ten hour day and can hardly make ends meet. Likewise a Thai farmer isn’t too concerned about having the ideal home, but still it bothers me that nothing here ever seems to work properly and nobody is the slightest bit concerned about it.

My old jeep’s in dock yet again and when our second hand motorbike, bought from a dishonest motorbike mechanic, fails to start yet again, I do begin to wonder. With both out of action, we’ve just had to borrow a motorbike to get into Sangkha. On the way Cat begins to slow, shouting to me that something’s wrong. We grind to a halt and as I look down, there’s a ping and a greasy sprocket falls into the dust. I try to pick it up but it’s blazing hot and I burn my fingers.

Having paid for the repair of the motorbike, I tried the bicycle instead. It was securely locked with chain and padlock but then the key broke off in the lock. When I found the hacksaw to cut the chain, that was broken too and as for the bike, it’ll be exactly the same story.

All these experiences leave me feeling a little cynical. I’ll soon be telling you more about the jeep I’ve bought, but the succession of five mechanics I paid to stop its brakes seizing up were either incompetent or hadn’t even touched them before writing out a bill. When we came back from a trip to England the brakes were seizing up yet again, so I got Cat’s cousin to take them apart at the house, while I watched. They were utterly filthy and full of black dust, the slave cylinders were seized and the pads were coming off the shoes.

Sadly a few days later we never made it home from town, the front brakes binding tight and screaming so loudly that people in the street turned to stare. Thankfully, mechanic number five whose garage was nearby seemed competent and he had it fixed the next day. The jeep has modern servo-assisted brakes and the servo that was supposed to be new, was a dud.

For some months the jeep then stopped perfectly, or as well as drum brakes can stop a ton or two of metal, but then the ultimate nightmare occurred. One day, on the way into town I put my foot on the brake pedal and it went straight to the floor. With a rush of adrenaline, I grabbed for the hand brake, forgetting there isn’t one and then resorted to prayer. It was only because I was on a straight road with nothing in front of me that I didn’t have to die. If I’d made it into Sangkha and lost my brakes in the middle of town, the story could have been very different.

At little more than walking pace, I then drove the jeep back to my mechanic and paid him to have another go at getting the brakes right. A rubber seal in the ‘new’ servo had apparently failed. Not long after, exactly the same thing happened again, so the only thing I can now think of is buying an emergency anchor.

My conclusion is that maintenance doesn’t come naturally in this part of the world. To make it worse, most cheap things like door locks and taps are rubbish anyway and people are thoroughly careless fitting and using them, casually trashing everything they touch.

I won’t make any friends by saying this, but in my experience the bush mechanics I’ve encountered in Africa were far, far better than the Thais. In India and Burma they have amazing skills breathing life into old jalopies and I’m told the Vietnamese are fine mechanics. So why can the Thais not keep my jeep on the road as it’s not so very difficult. The engine, gearbox and brakes are modern Japanese transplants, while the rest is as simple as a tractor.

Small motorbikes regularly break down too, so maybe the problem’s a failure to do simple maintenance. Neglect can be expensive but Thais just don’t do maintenance, or so it seems to me. I often wonder why this is as the Thais are highly materialistic and sometimes strive hard to get the shiny baubles they’ve seen on the telly. I think of Prasert who, with his wife, spends his life stirring noodles to keep up the payments on his now ageing pick-up. I think of the girl in the bar who told me she’ll be hard at it until she’s bought the new car she can’t live without. So why is it that once they’ve got the object of their desire, they often seem to neglect it?

Is it a Buddhist thing? Could it be that material things are illusory and impermanent and if you can’t expect them to stay gorgeous and new, why bother to look after them at all. But no, I’m sure that’s not the explanation and I don’t know what it is.

Asians generally like everything to be brand spanking new and often can’t be bothered with the old. The Chinese for example like new houses because old ones are full of spirits from the past and as Bangkok is largely an immigrant Chinese city, many of the buildings there are un-maintained and falling into ruin. Apart from a few old areas that deserve restoration, half the city needs to be knocked down and rebuilt.

Attitudes are so very different in the West. We farang actually like old things for their hand-made feel and for the patina they’ve acquired from decades of human contact and use. For all these reasons we lavish enormous care on old buildings and I adore my thirty year old MGB which runs beautifully despite its age.

In Thailand it seems acceptable that nothing much ever works. The ATM at the bank often has no ink so withdrawal receipts come out blank, it’s run out of paper and even of money. Copy shops give you appalling photocopies and in the internet shop the letters on the keys have worn away to nothing and are illegible. My TOT IP Star satellite internet, a recent acquisition, rarely works, the maintenance men are quite shocked at being called out and I’m expected to pay for a sub-standard service.

It’s boring to trot out more examples and I’d better stop moaning because maybe they’re right… it doesn’t matter anyway! It’s my farang attitude that’s out of line, though sometimes it really does drive me mad.

Recently when taking Cat’s sister to the Bangkok bus, I spent two baht to have a pee at the Sangkha bus station. Twenty four hours a day somebody sits outside the toilet collecting the money, but do they ever clean the filthy urinals I’ve just paid to use? Not apparently. They’re yellow and stinking and broken and it’s hard to believe Thailand has just hosted the World Toilet Expo in Bangkok which promotes high standards of sanitation. The Thais are very particular about personal hygiene, so why do they tolerate these appalling public latrines?

Since then, the bus station toilet’s been closed and it says ‘sia’ on the door (‘spoiled’), so perhaps something positive’s about to happen. Trouble is, now there’s nowhere to go for a leak before you face an eight hour bus ride to the capital.
AnAttA
sorry because it is too long for me to read

i'd like to offer my point of view on "mai pen rai" thing

when thai ppl say mai pen rai/never mind, they don't mean it

they will go home and talk to friends/families about how to kill you without going to jail

when thai ppl smile, don't think that they like you

it is very hard to know what in thai ppl mind


it might not related to your post, but i hope you will think twice when thai ppl say mai pen rai
GentleWind
Omg your emotions are out of control lol
tangawizi
Anatta, does the mai-pen-rai attitude also leads to a "couldn't give a damn" about maintenance of things in life? always going after the new, and discarding the old?

In Singapore, there is no more mai-pen-rai attitude amongst the people. They are all freaken anal about getting things right and in working order.. it's frightening.
AEROFORCE1
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Mar 2 2008, 09:18 PM) [snapback]3539091[/snapback]
Anatta, does the mai-pen-rai attitude also leads to a "couldn't give a damn" about maintenance of things in life? always going after the new, and discarding the old?

In Singapore, there is no more mai-pen-rai attitude amongst the people. They are all freaken anal about getting things right and in working order.. it's frightening.

Mmm I though you are right in some what Mai pen rai attitude is about living with the problem or push it away instead of solving it. Kinda no one want to take action. In the group working situation if some one take a risk action to solve the problem ,in the start no one help you. And if you do well people jump on the bandwagon and do a bit of work to gain face. But if you fail people blame you stupid and lost your trust.

The part I like about the western attitude is about taking action, if you fail ,but you taking risk and taking responsibility and learn. Your boss or your work mate is fine with you.

AnAttA
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Mar 2 2008, 09:18 PM) [snapback]3539091[/snapback]
Anatta, does the mai-pen-rai attitude also leads to a "couldn't give a damn" about maintenance of things in life? always going after the new, and discarding the old?

In Singapore, there is no more mai-pen-rai attitude amongst the people. They are all freaken anal about getting things right and in working order.. it's frightening.


AHH

pretty much, i would that someone who couldn't give a damn about maintenance things in life is stupid and simple lazy

but the thai farmer in your story is working, isn't he? And he working hard, right?

there are many factors contribute to the "mai pen rai" attitude.

like religious beliefs, mythologies, literature and floklores.

buddhism teachs you to content with whatever you are

rich people almost always are evil in thai folklores [we even got bad, greedy and stupid kings in thai folklores]

i did some thinking about thai cartoons i read when i was a kid

none of them teaching about hardwork

non of them teaching about struggle in life

or fight for the better days

most ppl will get rich because of luck and miracle which rewarded by angels because they are living life according to the buddha teaching

and ppl are poor because they did bad things in the past life

i heard alot of ppl say things like "you must have done a lot of merit in the past life, that why you are so beautiful/rich"

blah, blah,blah

hope you get what i'm saying
tangawizi
i get what u are saying about the traditional way of buddhist laymen's view on merits and karma in the past lives affecting their standard of living of today.

in Singapore, there is alot of chinese buddhist/taoists who are gradually converting their religious belief to christianity because of several things :

1. christian beliefs take away the concept of bad karma, they seem to teach the newcomer that if u ask God for forgiveness and receive Christ into your heart, all your sins will be forgiven and u will be "saved" -- haha...all your bad karma will just go *poof* into thin air if u accept Christ,

2. christian groups have an active network where they work with one another not just on the religious matters, but also business and other social networks... you can find insurance salesmen or lawyers in your church group who will feel obligated to help u out in times of stress, on the condition that of course, you attend the weekly bible study and donate 1/10th of your salary to the church

3. ok, wait for this... i was told this by an old chinese woman who became a christian, being a christian also means that your funeral expense will be much lower than if you were to have a buddhist/taoist funeral ceremony.. !!! eek.gif because u no longer have to hire the expensive taoist or buddhist monks to chant for u, make all these fake paper houses and cars to burn, burn all these fake money to spend in hell or heaven, and etc etc etc... christian funerals are stark and simple, no candles no joss-sticks no expensive rituals to follow...

So I wonder if its because a huge number of Singaporeans are turning Christians that's why my country is becoming more anal about efficiency, maintenance and simple things like delivery on time?? this is a massive generalisation i realise, but when i read what that English blogger wrote of his experience living with Thai farmers up in northeast Thailand, it made me think again about this religious-social phenomenon...

AnAttA
i think basically it comes down to what is the purpose of our lives

some people go for the material things like money, cars, big houses, fame...

some ppl just don't care about those things, they just want food on the table for their children. they want self-sufficiency life

self-sufficiency ppl see capitalist as evils destroying the world

capitalists ppl see self-sufficiency ppl as lazy and backward


i don't know, tanga

life is so complicated to categorize it


back to "mai pen rai"

is it the same as aussie saying "no worries"

i'm just curious. maybe aero can give me the asnwer.


and what do you think about that thai farmer and how would you like your funeral done? embarassedlaugh.gif
Buddhalove
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Mar 2 2008, 10:18 AM) [snapback]3539091[/snapback]
Anatta, does the mai-pen-rai attitude also leads to a "couldn't give a damn" about maintenance of things in life? always going after the new, and discarding the old?

In Singapore, there is no more mai-pen-rai attitude amongst the people. They are all freaken anal about getting things right and in working order.. it's frightening.


Let use "mai-pen-rai" in the normal day to day conversation.

You're helping somebody out, and they say "Thank You", then you reply "mai-pen-rai"

"mai-pen-rai" literally means you're welcomed.
AnAttA
QUOTE(Buddhalove @ Mar 3 2008, 10:57 AM) [snapback]3540801[/snapback]
Let use "mai-pen-rai" in the normal day to day conversation.

You're helping somebody out, and they say "Thank You", then you reply "mai-pen-rai"

"mai-pen-rai" literally means you're welcomed.


ahh that's right

it means you're welcome ,too

interesting

what else does it mean
transtic
QUOTE(AnAttA @ Mar 3 2008, 02:12 PM) [snapback]3540663[/snapback]
is it the same as aussie saying "no worries"


I can't speak for AERO but at work I say no worries more times than Britney Spears flashes her cooch.

If a workmate asks me to help him out for a bit I'll say 'No worries'. After I'm done and he thanks me, my reply is 'No worries'. A customer comes in and sees that the restaurant is pretty packed I'll say 'Yeah, no worries just wait here I'll see what I can do'. If I can't find one the customer will say 'No worries'. My manager asks me to come in and cover a shift for someone and I'll be like 'No worries'. I get there and he thanks me, yep, you guessed it, 'No worries!' Today I asked my manager if he could be my reference for another job I'm applying for and OMG guess what he said? 'NO WORRIES!' Oh yea and as a last example, a customer buys a drink, and thanks me after I give him change and my response is 95% of the time 'No worries'.... hmmmm
babelone
Mai pen rai boosts the wonderful harmony of Thailand. I haven't read the essay yet, but can guess that he's missing his blarney stone or something. Me, I miss the harmony of Thailand right now from out of country.

Ahhhie, mai pen rai...

bawling.gif
AnAttA
QUOTE(transtic @ Mar 3 2008, 05:08 PM) [snapback]3541517[/snapback]
I can't speak for AERO but at work I say no worries more times than Britney Spears flashes her cooch.

If a workmate asks me to help him out for a bit I'll say 'No worries'. After I'm done and he thanks me, my reply is 'No worries'. A customer comes in and sees that the restaurant is pretty packed I'll say 'Yeah, no worries just wait here I'll see what I can do'. If I can't find one the customer will say 'No worries'. My manager asks me to come in and cover a shift for someone and I'll be like 'No worries'. I get there and he thanks me, yep, you guessed it, 'No worries!' Today I asked my manager if he could be my reference for another job I'm applying for and OMG guess what he said? 'NO WORRIES!' Oh yea and as a last example, a customer buys a drink, and thanks me after I give him change and my response is 95% of the time 'No worries'.... hmmmm


ahh, transtic is from down under too

so aussie's no worries and thai's mai pen rai got the same meaning

interesting
tangawizi
QUOTE(AnAttA @ Mar 3 2008, 06:12 AM) [snapback]3540663[/snapback]
i think basically it comes down to what is the purpose of our lives

some people go for the material things like money, cars, big houses, fame...

some ppl just don't care about those things, they just want food on the table for their children. they want self-sufficiency life

self-sufficiency ppl see capitalist as evils destroying the world

capitalists ppl see self-sufficiency ppl as lazy and backward


i don't know, tanga

life is so complicated to categorize it

and what do you think about that thai farmer and how would you like your funeral done? embarassedlaugh.gif


i think the thai farmer does a good job managing the expectations in his life. If he can mai-pen-rai all the $hit that happen in his self-sufficiency life, that's a beauty.

The problem comes when he no longer can mai-pen-rai all the $hit that happens in a self-sufficient life, and yearns for new expectations to be met, like a truck, a consistent water supply system, more spending money.. Who is going to meet such new expectations?

I also think the English ex-lawyer who married the thai lady and moved to Surin has a tough time managing his own expectations in life living in rural Thailand. That's why he is trying to find an answer why things don't go smoothly and efficiently in rural Thailand.. compared to say rural England or France. His expectations don't match the reality.
AnAttA
nah, he will get used to it

i totally agree with what you said

it is hard to live a self-sufficiency life

even buddhist monks got a/c, fridges and netbooks in their rooms {+several girls paying visits everynight}

i admire those self-sufficiency ppl

but i will never live like that



Buddhalove
" English ex-lawyer who married the thai lady and moved to Surin has a tough time managing his own expectations in life living in rural Thailand." Quote from tangawizi. To me it means that the central Thai government is partial blame for their mis-management. People in issan and Lanna voted for Thaksin twice based on his ability to solve problems, which previous PM can not do, doesn't mean he's perfect. If issan, muslim south and Lanna have a choice they would manage their own affair. sick.gif
AnAttA
QUOTE(Buddhalove @ Mar 4 2008, 08:48 AM) [snapback]3542838[/snapback]
" English ex-lawyer who married the thai lady and moved to Surin has a tough time managing his own expectations in life living in rural Thailand." Quote from tangawizi. To me it means that the central Thai government is partial blame for their mis-management. People in issan and Lanna voted for Thaksin twice based on his ability to solve problems, which previous PM can not do, doesn't mean he's perfect. If issan, muslim south and Lanna have a choice they would manage their own affair. sick.gif


exactly

let's have a referendum for every region;e-sarn,lanna,south and muslim south.

Buddhalove
QUOTE(AnAttA @ Mar 3 2008, 10:12 PM) [snapback]3542915[/snapback]
exactly

let's have a referendum for every region;e-sarn,lanna,south and muslim south.



Sorry, No muslim south, especially when you start bombing and killing babies, monks, teachers, un-armed civilians and innocent bystanders. nono.gif
skullwrecker_13
blrugh, that's weird, no-one i know back home has ever had that kind of problem and most of the toilets i've encountered have been acceptable (better than what i'm putting up with now and what they have in france... esp the public ones in calais...)... then again im completely alien to that region of thailand anyway
corky
QUOTE(AnAttA @ Mar 2 2008, 04:50 PM) [snapback]3538483[/snapback]
sorry because it is too long for me to read

i'd like to offer my point of view on "mai pen rai" thing

when thai ppl say mai pen rai/never mind, they don't mean it

they will go home and talk to friends/families about how to kill you without going to jail

when thai ppl smile, don't think that they like you

it is very hard to know what in thai ppl mind
it might not related to your post, but i hope you will think twice when thai ppl say mai pen rai

so true.....

its not that they dont care about the problem its that its "not their place to deal with it"


i think that english guy missed that. thais DO care!! askt he avergae thai if they care about all the whores, ask them if they care about the bad reputtation an dthey will say yes. but dealing with it isnt every buddhist in their eyes. my wife is a clasic example, soem kids say "dtong jee wake" when she passed (thats new slang for raping her) and sh come shome in a foul mood. tells me the story and i want to get soem guys and go voisit the yobs......she calms me down saying "its thefather's job"........only problem is where is the father????

thais have a great respect for place and ebing rip-rooi (proper)and to this end they dont want to be suak (nosey) and rop guan (disturb) the peace unless its their 'pa-la' (responsibility).

QUOTE(GentleWind @ Mar 2 2008, 04:53 PM) [snapback]3538485[/snapback]
Omg your emotions are out of control lol

another fantastic contribution embarassedlaugh.gif

QUOTE(tangawizi @ Mar 2 2008, 09:18 PM) [snapback]3539091[/snapback]
Anatta, does the mai-pen-rai attitude also leads to a "couldn't give a damn" about maintenance of things in life? always going after the new, and discarding the old?

In Singapore, there is no more mai-pen-rai attitude amongst the people. They are all freaken anal about getting things right and in working order.. it's frightening.

that the balance i suppose. comparing my country to thailand i have often said they have way more in common than your avergae western country. but there si one huge difference, irish people take it upon themselves to "sort-things out". we wade in, even when we are not wanted (i can see other AF members queing up to agree with this embarassedlaugh.gif), we dive in bull-headed because we feel the world is worn g and we should try to make it better. is that any better than not dealing with the problem? its about 50-50...a balance is hard to find but ultimatley what we should be trying to find. ho many thais sit quieyly while a half-naked farang parades about.....funny enough if he was at home he would be told "put a fu-king shirt on" and probebl;y punched if he did'nt.
i once told a farang "put your shirt on" and he said "what the fu-k, you ar a foreigner here, what the fu-k does it matter to you" i told him "believe me you are irratating all the thias here" he said i was bull-$hitting"so i asked some thais, and then they said yes.(on the bts)
point is if thais dont want to lose face they will never speak out... shrug.gif
i irleand we have this guy eamon dunphy, he just says all controversial stuff. he is love by the irish because we value the "other-point-of-view"
thailand needs someone like that.

QUOTE(AEROFORCE1 @ Mar 2 2008, 10:24 PM) [snapback]3539147[/snapback]
Mmm I though you are right in some what Mai pen rai attitude is about living with the problem or push it away instead of solving it. Kinda no one want to take action. In the group working situation if some one take a risk action to solve the problem ,in the start no one help you. And if you do well people jump on the bandwagon and do a bit of work to gain face. But if you fail people blame you stupid and lost your trust.

The part I like about the western attitude is about taking action, if you fail ,but you taking risk and taking responsibility and learn. Your boss or your work mate is fine with you.

Khun AERO and i have talked about this before, its a difference in the opinion of what is important. westerners are taught that it doesnt matter what other people think. its al over our media, we tell out kids its competeing that counts, and not to listen to the bullies, and it works.

i really dont care what people think. that is not true of most thais. again i dont think either system is superior, but if we can find that happy medium where people are vocal about their problems with out it degereating into a troll fest like AF can do...... embarassedlaugh.gif
AnAttA
QUOTE(Buddhalove @ Mar 4 2008, 09:41 AM) [snapback]3542997[/snapback]
Sorry, No muslim south, especially when you start bombing and killing babies, monks, teachers, un-armed civilians and innocent bystanders. nono.gif


mai pen rai laugh.gif
skullwrecker_13
@ corky, god i must really be mixing with the wrong bunch of people (or we're just too westernised)... my family do not intefere with each other's business but when we found out my auntie's attitudes towards her kids was too keep them locked in the house and never let them out (including weekends) and just work everyone went balistic and cut off their links with her.... consequently she treats my cousins differently (and her husband got a few words that put him in his place over the way he is with his stepsons)... as for my mates.. its not uncommon for them to lay out a couple of westerners (esp when they're abroad, i swear to god ramsgate thinks thais are just violent hot-heads..... ) when they really piss them off
tangawizi
QUOTE(corky @ Mar 4 2008, 09:35 AM) [snapback]3543431[/snapback]
i really dont care what people think. that is not true of most thais. again i dont think either system is superior, but if we can find that happy medium where people are vocal about their problems with out it degereating into a troll fest like AF can do...... embarassedlaugh.gif



hmmmmm.... imma gonna think hard about what u wrote, because all the thai concepts about ebing rip-rooi (proper), suak (nosey) and rop guan (disturb) the peace unless its their 'pa-la' (responsibility), we have the same words for them in Singapore too and it applies not juz to the Chinese but Malays and Indians I suppose..

rip-rooi = the word we use suggests someone who is well bred and from a proper honorable family
suak = kaypoh also means busybody, we can't stand busybodies as a society, so our number 1 motto is "bo chap" attitude which is basically 'it's not my freaken problem'

the thing that is extremely different is taht most asians can't articulate or vocalise the existential problems in their lives.

I mean Khun Aero has noticed that Westerners take action. Yes, that's a fairly obvious difference when u have to work with farangs after you have studied years with them. But the thing is, Asians also take action but in circumstances that are quite different from the western. They wait and watch with alot of patience before taking the action that is deem appropriate. Many westerners take action that later turns out to be in haste and not particularly helpful. But they are often perceived by everybody to be a 'natural' and 'effective leader' amongst the people because of their willingness to take action fast. Asians are not born 'natural' leaders who take action and decisions fast. We don't talk too much either nor are we able to vocalise what's the problem. We seem to look at the action behind the words much more than the words themselves.

Do i make sense?

I dunno.. coming back to the British ex-lawyer who is living in Surin n struggling with plumbers and IT guys who can't fix his internet connection, I think he is unlearning many things he has picked up in his 'fast' life in the UK. And now in his old age, he is discovering values alien to him, values which make for a simple life with no haste and no excess. Values which he did not pick up before in his life in the fast lane where being an effective leader means 'talking' fast. He's gonna have to enjoy saying 'mai pen rai' now to his mates in the pub in England i am sure...
corky
QUOTE(skullwrecker_13 @ Mar 4 2008, 01:47 PM) [snapback]3543469[/snapback]
@ corky, god i must really be mixing with the wrong bunch of people (or we're just too westernised)... my family do not intefere with each other's business but when we found out my auntie's attitudes towards her kids was too keep them locked in the house and never let them out (including weekends) and just work everyone went balistic and cut off their links with her.... consequently she treats my cousins differently (and her husband got a few words that put him in his place over the way he is with his stepsons)... as for my mates.. its not uncommon for them to lay out a couple of westerners (esp when they're abroad, i swear to god ramsgate thinks thais are just violent hot-heads..... ) when they really piss them off

if that was my family they would have taken the kids away form her. that stepping over the line but it illustrates what i mean. my wife does similar things, she wont talk to mates that have wronged her. if my mate wrongs me he will be lucky if i am not talking to him 24/7.
of course it would be foolish and ignorant to bulk characterize thais as passive. i have met thais ho make me seem agreable and apssive embarassedlaugh.gif but i guess we ahve to stereotype a little to evaluate thais in general. i taught a fe thai kis in basildon essex (actaually pitsea (not nice place) and they were hard, but i am not talking about thai-blood or thai-ethnicity, i am talking about culture and while i am sure the thai-english thais are very thai, they certainly have elements of england too, and being loud and loutish are english traits afterall tongue.gif (joking, its the irishman's right to attack the english embarassedlaugh.gif ))

QUOTE(tangawizi @ Mar 5 2008, 11:47 AM) [snapback]3545794[/snapback]
hmmmmm.... imma gonna think hard about what u wrote, because all the thai concepts about ebing rip-rooi (proper), suak (nosey) and rop guan (disturb) the peace unless its their 'pa-la' (responsibility), we have the same words for them in Singapore too and it applies not juz to the Chinese but Malays and Indians I suppose..

rip-rooi = the word we use suggests someone who is well bred and from a proper honorable family
suak = kaypoh also means busybody, we can't stand busybodies as a society, so our number 1 motto is "bo chap" attitude which is basically 'it's not my freaken problem'

the thing that is extremely different is taht most asians can't articulate or vocalise the existential problems in their lives.

I mean Khun Aero has noticed that Westerners take action. Yes, that's a fairly obvious difference when u have to work with farangs after you have studied years with them. But the thing is, Asians also take action but in circumstances that are quite different from the western. They wait and watch with alot of patience before taking the action that is deem appropriate. Many westerners take action that later turns out to be in haste and not particularly helpful. But they are often perceived by everybody to be a 'natural' and 'effective leader' amongst the people because of their willingness to take action fast. Asians are not born 'natural' leaders who take action and decisions fast. We don't talk too much either nor are we able to vocalise what's the problem. We seem to look at the action behind the words much more than the words themselves.

Do i make sense?

I dunno.. coming back to the British ex-lawyer who is living in Surin n struggling with plumbers and IT guys who can't fix his internet connection, I think he is unlearning many things he has picked up in his 'fast' life in the UK. And now in his old age, he is discovering values alien to him, values which make for a simple life with no haste and no excess. Values which he did not pick up before in his life in the fast lane where being an effective leader means 'talking' fast. He's gonna have to enjoy saying 'mai pen rai' now to his mates in the pub in England i am sure...

excellent post. and i wish i read it before i replied to skull's post, as that was what i was trying to say , in my big dumb-irish way. its not that asians dont deal wiht things, they just do it differently. like skull said his family gave the silent treatment, whereas perhaps a more western family would have called the police/ taken matters into their on hands or whatever.
tangawizi
^ thx! i got thinking again that the concept of "mai pen rai" exists in all languages right?

"pas de probleme" (francais)
"hakuna matata" (swahili)
"no problemo" (espagnol)
"no sweat" (american)
"no worries" (aussie)

the difference maybe that for some, "mai pen rai" carries so many different undertones, whereas for many others, "no worries" just means that - "no worries, mate!"

i think the trend these days is straightforward and linear thinking?

while other cultures are still steeped in a more subtle and circuituous way in their thinking?

Maybe that reflects the sort of living mode they have. The linear thinker enjoys a structured predictable lifestyle, while the subtle and circuituous thinker suffers a 'feast' and 'famine' mode of living more often?

So maybe a Bangkokian or a retired British ex-lawyer who's got a measure of predictability and stability in his life would definitely say "mai pen rai" and mean it like "no worries, mate" whereas an Issan farmer's "mai pen rai" carries a lot more connotations?

Or hm... maybe vice versa?? The farmer's life could be more predictable than the Bangkokian and hence carries more sincerity in his 'mai pen rai' anytime...

life is juz a polarity isn't it?
AEROFORCE1
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Mar 7 2008, 03:10 AM) [snapback]3549286[/snapback]
Or hm... maybe vice versa?? The farmer's life could be more predictable than the Bangkokian and hence carries more sincerity in his 'mai pen rai' anytime...

life is juz a polarity isn't it?

I think MaiPenRai is said when you cant do any things about the problem at the time. Their life is base on the environment and they got resource there So without meney (Some time) they are OK. But thesedays their life is base on the money more and more so it harder for them cuzthey are the one who hold the resource but cant control the market price like middle man or big organization. So its hard for them to has a bargain power then they would says "Mai Pen Rai" when they cant do any things.

Hmm even replace the salary man with farmer and skills with the resource the above statement still true. embarassedlaugh.gif

Well lets intoduced new Thai word to you Sabai Sabai which mean Easy Easy , or "take it easy" this is the attitude that I not like that much. Sabai Sabai attitude made Thai people cant compete in the world class. Thesedays is the world is head to the "Knowledge Based Society" but many Thai people still dont do any things and happy with the kind of believe

The fish is available in the canal or river ในน้ำมีปลา
The rice is available in the rice field ในนามีข้าว
The money is available before election ก่อนในเข้าคูหาเลือกตั้งได้เงิน
The whore house are also available every where ซ่องมีอยู่ทุกที่แม้ตรงข้าม รร อนุบาล
And the best is We never been colonized (,where as we already lost economic warfare in 1997)

After says all these not need to do any things all the rest is prepare the bed jump on it then sleep.....

But before that lets listen to daddy fairy tale biggrin.gif
QUOTE
The Vietnam challenge: Bye-bye sabai-sabai bawling.gif
Bangkok Post - Two weeks ago, I wrote a column called "Facing the new challenge of Vietnam". The day after, the Vietnam News called me to ask permission to reprint. I was pleased to allow the newspaper to share my perspective for the Vietnamese. ...

On the same day, I got two voicemails from a Thai reader. He asked me where he could buy the book Blue Ocean Strategy. I had mentioned in the same column that the book could help Thai entrepreneurs survive in the competitive world market. I did not call back, since I thought it was too much spoonfeeding if I have to tell that person where the book could be purchased.

Two days after that, I got an e-mail from one of my workshop participants who is the head of human resources, telling me that she would distribute the column to other HR executives in Vietnam.

A week after the column appeared in the Bangkok Post, I had an executive coaching session with a young Thai executive who manages a couple of hundred IT engineers. I shared with him my positive impression from my Vietnam experience. I asked him about his knowledge of Vietnam.

"I went there a few months ago. I like to explore this country. To my amazing surprise, I think Vietnam's information technology (IT) business will be catching up with Thailand within two years."

"What makes you say that?"

He replied: "I think that for technical skills and knowledge, IT engineers from Thailand and Vietnam are about the same. But if we compare productivity, my rough estimate is that a Vietnamese engineer would be much better - four or five times more than Thais."

"Why?"

"First, Vietnamese salaries are almost half what Thais are paid. Second, on average, a Thai engineer works about 30 hours per week, while a Vietnamese engineer works 60 hours per week. They work six days a week and roughly 10 hours a day.

"In addition, our engineers have some other disadvantages. Number one is we are not disciplined. Number two, the attitude toward work is too demanding, since the IT market in Thailand is short of manpower. Staff turnover is high. Consequently, they are very demanding for benefits and compensation. Finally, our fighting attitude is not good. We want a high salary and we don't want to solve problems. Instead, we look at the technical problems as the challenges; we perceive them as an obstacle to our sabai (comfort)."

After a few seconds of silence, I said: "I think it's not too late. It's just a matter of promoting awareness of how critical discipline is."

I don't want to say this because many Thais might think that I am insulting my own country, but it's a fact of life. The lack of discipline seems to be a cause for several major problems in Thailand.

Without good discipline, we could not make any project run smoothly. I observe in most events in Thailand, the deadline is always compromised.

Our harmonising culture is good in hospitality industries, when we have to deal with clients or provide hospitality services. This is a strength for Thais.

Unfortunately, when we compromise a deadline, there are several consequences after that. I think the cost incurred from compromising deadlines would have a huge financial impact on both government and corporate expenses.

We should not compromise so much by saying mai pen rai (it doesn't matter). It's better to have good project-management skills and stop being so kreng jai when dealing with undisciplined people.

On the other hand, it is imperative for teachers and parents to really educate our children. We must tell them life is about solving problems, fighting with adversity and being persistent. Otherwise, we will have a new generation which is not only weak, but also comes to the workplace with a demanding attitude. They'll say: "How much can you pay me?", instead of asking questions like: "How much I can contribute? How could I learn from solving difficult problems here? And how will I add value to the organisation?".

Today is Christmas and we are approaching the new year. Let's work harder to make the coming year more productive.

As Thomas Friedman, the New York Times columnist and Pulitzer Prize winning author of The World is Flat, teased Americans in his Times column:

"When I was growing up, my parents used to say to me: 'Finish your dinner - people in China are starving.' I, by contrast, find myself wanting to say to my daughters: 'Finish your homework - people in China and India are starving for your job."'

I would say to Thai children: "If you love sabai sabai, fun and don't learn very hard, soon people in Vietnam will take over all your work. You will never be sabai sabai again.
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