After reading a few relevant threads about the Philippines on this site--along with reading many on other fora--it has become abundantly clear that a huge amount of Filipinos and people of Filipino/Philippine descent have a deluded view about their history; especially the Philippines' history with other countries.

The United States: As an American (of Filipino descent), this is probably the most grating. The attitude among Filipinos (used for both Filipinos and those with Filipino ancestry) is that the American rule was all bad. Many, many Filipinos died in the Philippine-American War. However, there was some good to come from an almost half century of American rule. Because of the Americans, Filipinos became Filipinos. The term 'Filipino' was originally used for those of European descent born in the Philippines. The bulk of the population were not called Filipinos. Because of the Americans, Filipinos were encouraged to have a common identity. In the pre-Spanish era, the Philippines did not exist. There were a bunch of tribes. Contrary to some websites, there was no unified Filipino identity, even on the most tenuous levels. During the Spanish era, the Spaniards basically stuck to Manila. And that's about it--besides are few garrisons. They did not work to spread a common language or culture to the natives. The closest was bringing Christianity, which is not a culture. Because of the Americans, the Philippines once had some of the most advanced infrastructure in all of Asia (roads, railways, sewage, etc.). Because of the Americans, Filipinos were among the most literate people in Asia--and still are today. Because of the Americans, prior to World War 2, the Philippines had one of the largest (some argue second largest) Asian economies, after Japan. Notice how after independence THE PHILIPPINE ECONOMY TANKED. Then there seems to be some sort of idea that the Filipinos fought the Americans for their independence, and this is why the Philippines achieved independence after World War 2. As opposed to European countries, which were devastated by that war, the post-war American economy was booming, the American military was the unchallenged leader, and the American homeland was for the most part unscathed by the war. The Philippines gained independence because in 1935--years before World War 2 even broke out--the American government agreed to form the Commonwealth of the Philippines, with the goal of granting independence to the Philippines within 10 years. Ten years after 1935 was 1945, and the Philippines had just thrown off the Japanese and Manila was in shambles. Independence was held off for a year, but when it was granted, on July 4, 1946, it was very much a cordial parting of ways for both sides. As stated, there were some bad things. For instance, the United States had essentially a mercantile free trade agreement with the Philippines, which--while growing the Philippine economy--boosted agricultural products while retarding industrial growth. However, there was a huge amount of good to come from the American era.

The Spanish: As opposed to the Americans, Filipinos seem to have and insane view that the Spaniards were somehow 'good guys.' They were the ones who took over the Philippines, set up a de facto caste system with 'their people' (full-blooded European descendants) on top, mestizos beneath them, and the natives near the bottom. They hampered Philippine identity by remaining in Manila. They did squat to help the Philippines. Manila--Manila, not the Philippines--was practically just a way station between more sophisticated Asian countries and Latin America. Contrary to one member's views, the Philippines was not a part of the Spanish government. The closest the Philippines came to being part of the government of the 'master' was when they sent non-voting observer representatives to the AMERICAN Congress. Not great by a long shot, but still far more than the Spanish allowed. The only big good things to come from the Spanish were their missionaries. Not only were they responsible for evangelizing the people, but they were responsible for recording the Philippine (originally Tagalog) baybayin (or Alibata). They even [finally] came up with a kudlit to remove the ending vowel sounds so that Tagalog (and eventually other Philippine languages) could be written in full. Prior to the Spanish, somehow it didn't dawn on the proto-Filipinos to use their writing to record their history and culture, but just to make little notes and poems/songs. Still, the way Filipinos fall ga-ga over the Spanish is disgusting, especially in comparison with their antipathy toward the Americans.

The Chinese: THERE WAS NO LUSONG EMPIRE IN LUZON. Even with the Mongols breathing down their necks, the imperial court of the Song Empire would not have emigrated to Luzon. Furthermore, there is not one big piece of evidence supporting this myth. The Chinese merchants brought trade and food to the Philippines, and their mestizo descendants form the leadership of the Philippines today.

The Japanese: Marginal trade. During World War 2, the Japanese killed a massive number of Filipinos and set up a Vichy-style puppet government, as they did in Manchuria.

The Indians: Little evidence of direct contact between India and the Philippines. Contact was indirect, through Indonesia/Java/Sumatra.

The Arabs: ditto.

The Mexicans (why not?): The Philippines was administered by Mexico before that country fought for--and won--independence.

The Philippines did not have a great, glorious, sophisticated history the way some other Asian countries had. Fanciful ideas such as the Lusong Empire just make authentic things, such as baybayin, look suspect. At least the Philippines had writing, textiles, pottery, and metallurgy up to iron prior to Spanish contact. Just because pre-Spanish Philippine history was less than spectacular doesn't translate into the Philippines destined to be pathetic. There is no need for some sort of 'Kwanzaa-ified' and fabricated Philippine history full of fictious grandeur. As stated, under the Americans, the Philippines had one of the largest economies in Asia, and one of the highest per capita incomes in Asia. The Philippines did it once, the Philippines can do it again.

[And for some Americans of Filipino descent, and other Asians: THE PHILIPPINES IS AN ASIAN COUNTRY, NOT PACIFIC ISLAND. Having other Asians state this is stupid enough, but when people of Filipino descent state this, that is a whole other thing.]

WTF is the Lusong empire..never heard of it...

and Philippines was under Spain's control through an arbitrary gov in Mexico...who do u think was in control of Mexico...white spaniards...LOL

Please STFU...no one gives a sh!t...learn more about real filipino culture before u start talking...KANO

Um, i think you have it mixed up. Most Filipinos these days LOVE Americans, and don't care about the Spanish. To Filipinos, American is in and Spanish is a thing of the past.

^That's because the US is a superpower.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

OP has not met many filipinos?

Where did you learn your Philippine History Sir?

i noticed your words: "deluded and insane" views of the Filipinos --- because it's so different from the REAL views of the Filipinos now.

What are you talking about?

Americans are like the "in" thing in Philippines right now. Almost every Filipino I know who studied in Philippines are all pro-Americans. Americans killed many Filipinos, but brought education and American culture.

The Spaniards are considered "evil" - which wasn't all true. Spaniards also brought education to the Philippines and shared their culture. Majority Philippines was very Hispanicized until the American occupation.

Also the Spaniards didn't really kill or forced the natives into Hispanic culture. What happened was many of our native nobilities accepted an offer, pledge allegiance to crown of Spain and they received the title "Don" and "Doña" which formed the Principalia class.

So many our native nobility became even richer than they were before during the Spanish era. Except for the Islamic peoples in Mindanao who resisted the colonization.

With many of the native nobility accepting the offer the common folks followed.

Our history textbooks are pro-American and anti-Japanese and anti-Spanish.

I remember reading back then that Spaniards were all evil people and we should hate them. Which corrupted our minds because my parents and sisters, when they see Spanish people they automatically think they are b!tches.

One time they mistook my Spanish language teacher for an actual Spaniard and they automatically thought she was a b!tch, then when I told her she was Italian their faces went blank.

My dad praises American people - despite the fact that he has clear Spanish-Filipino ancestry. During his teenage years he even managed to meet my Spanish-mestizo great grandpa! Unfortunately my grandpa became pro-American also, and completely cut off their Hispanic ties.

Looks like the OP is a pretending Filipino.

Caste system in the Philippines? BS!

No, he's right. In the Philippines, people think America saved us from the Horribly Oppressive Spanish - the ones that never taught us Spanish in order to keep us at perpetual servtitude, as opposed to the Thomasites. Filipinos are clueless of how we WON the war of Independence, and how America betrayed and INVADED us.

I would have to admit, the United States occupation did bring mixed changes - on one hand, I doubt we'd have a democracy without the U.S. intervention. Some military dictatorship, probably by Aguinaldo himself, would have ruled the country in the early years.
Americans did have the Thomasites educate us, and American business were instrumental in modernizing the Philippines, although with some harmful consequences. The War with America probably killed more people than our Revolution against Spain.

In terms of culture, if there was an equivalent term for Hispanics(of Spanish influence and language) as for Peoples of American culture and language - we would fit that description. Americanics - but that doesn't sound good. America also set back the Philippine advances is literature, and science. Many of the illustrados like Rizal were making great contributions to their fields, but the introduction of English, created a shift in the elites. While we were replacing Spanish with English, who knows what literary and scientific accomplishments could have been reached instead of trying to master a new language.

WTF did you even read his post?

His post implied that all Filipinos have the exact opposite view that you just described.

Basically, he thinks all Filipinos are like LazyAsian. kekekeke.

.

Dude, I'm from the Archepelago okay - I read a dozen Philippine history books. I actually lived in the Philippines for most of my life, my family has a few history professors - some in La Salle and some in UP, and we get discussions all the time. Most Filipinos have view I presented to you. Trust me dude, trust me. Most Filipinos IN the Philippines believe that America saved us from the Spanish.

His post is Obviously pro America. And in his ignorance, he actually believes that the Spanish only stayed in Intramuros. How ridiculous? Cebu, Iloilo, Naga, Bacolod, even Zambuanga had a good amount of Spanish settlement. I doubt the guy even read Rizal or Ocampo or even Romulo, how freaken ridiculous many of his arguements aren't backed by any historical data?

I'm not advocating the Spanish were enlighteners, and I'm not advocating the American presence was a negative thing. It's more complicated.

Toro' thanks. It is the OP who is deluded. Philippine history, even when this dropkick uses a double L in Philippines, is clear as the light of day. Shut him up mate. He's full of schite!

---oo0oo---

Oops, I must take that back. My screen resolution is higher than my vision. There was noi spelling mistake in Philippines. Sorry. Still, Toro' ask him where he/she come from, and then knock that place. The Philippines doesn't need new foolish enemies.)

nah, don't be a hater. The OP just struck a nerve with me. The sensitive political historian nerve.

That was what I felt too. Thanks for easing this. I'm not Filipino, but I stand up for my friends, and anyone getting p-unished by fools. I guess you saved me from another argument.

Thanks mate. .

Let's leave this delusion to the deluded people alone.

Because many Filipino historians like to ape our ASEAN and EA neigbors, they resulted to such scams and bs in Philippine History. I read somewhere that 'Sa Aking Kababata' was NOT written by Rizal himself. It's highly unlikely given that Rizal came from a Spanish-speaking household and that an eight year old boy does not have that same consciousness about languages at age 8.

This, IMO, had created identity crisis among Filipinos. Aside from creating the self pity mentality, hate in ones history, and worse, the Philippines is being Tagalized, therefore culturally killing the non-Tagalogs.

I think that the idiot with the huge username which is messing up the whole forum with AsiandescendantnotAsian shoulf be asking the question as:

Too many Americans with a deluded view of Ph8ilippine history. Don't kill him/her. They are American after all. They are taught to be completely stupud fromn a very young age, and know no better than the idiocy that their american school- teachers told them to pass their degrees. Frightened co-wards will believe anything. Be gentle with them. They didn't start out as arseholes.

To think I read that wall of text only to touch my nerve and riddicule the thread starter in my head.

oh dear... Jose Rizal was an exceptional boy unlike the typical 8 year old way back then.

I have read that some of the major pre-spanish tribes were masters in sea-fare, trade and negotiation, and of human culture that has respect for the human life and honor as well as for the environment as central values. Their logic was "geometric" and metaphorical, which I mentioned in another thread. Many were independent merchants who owned boats.
How much is this commonly known, and are there oppositional sources? I think these traits are enormously important and helpful nowadays again.

Today some voices are calling for a big strong leader, but as far as I understand Dr.Rizal was a mental and cultural leader, and his writings are a central part of Filipino identity. So, shouldn't they call for a big writer with wise ideas instead?

and another one



you forgot something...

"Nothing is real... everything is permitted"

-Assassin's Creed

Does anyone else get what I'm trying to say to Torete???



The OP's post is saying that most Filipinos view the Spanish as the saviours and that Americans are the bad guys. His post is pro-American but he's still wrong in thinking that most Filipinos are pro-Spanish. You and I both agree that the vast majority of Filipinos are pro-American.

So I have no idea what all this is about:


¬¬

Spanish > Wanted to create another colony using force.
American > Helped us fight the spanish then made the deal with them to buy us off and we went to war.
Japanese > Wanted to take over asia, philippines included.
Mexican > Not too much of a connection here except for trades because they were controlled by spain.
American during the japanese era > They pretty much saved us from the japanese. Other countries in asia included.
India > No connection other than your usual trades and some migration.
Chinese > Also, no solid connection except for your normal chinese migration.

.
I stopped reading after this point. You clearly are not in touch with the modern Filipino mentality, I advise you to read the some of the posts here and you will realize the reality is the exact opposite of the garbage that you just wrote.

There is a HUGE connection, but it's not direct, it's via Indonesia/Malaysia. The Indian influence has touched many parts of the Philippines, but it's hard to see these days.

HUGE connection?. Prove it.

Like I said, there were SOME migration. Its very small, like I mean SMALL compared to migration of the spanish and chinese.

^ A lot of our pre-Spanish culture (religion, dances, clothing, language) are more Indian than Austronesian. I'm not talking about the Indians that came during British rule, that's way later than what i'm talking about. I'm talking about the indirect connection to India via Malaysia/Indonesia. Parts of the Philippines were part of Hindu empires in the past.

Here's a thread that shows a lot of what i'm talking about:

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...145660&st=0

I dont think thats considered as an indian influence, thats more like solid Malay influence. Like you said its indirect, malays have been influenced by numerous cultures also. Thats kind of reaching.

I agree.

It's simply that malay influences have retained/preserved their own indian influences as well.

I dont think it's solid Malay influence because pure Malay culture would just be Austronesian culture. If the Philippines, Malaysia, and Indonesia didnt have that Indian influence (as well as Chinese), then they would be very different today. They'd be more like Micronesia.

And you have to remember that Philippines, Indonesia, and Malaysia weren't 3 different countries back then. Sometimes different empires encompassed parts of all 3. So if Indians directly influenced Malaysia, then it is likely that they had some direct influence on the Philippines too.

Yes, I understand that All three of these countries had very similar beliefs and influences before because there were no countries back then its all just people living wherever BUT im just grouping them as individuals since India itself is not one big pure culture. It was all a mixture of different tribal beliefs and practices and even languages. The influences to austronesian culture was based on tribes not a whole country itself. I said that there is a solid malay influence because since we are grouping india as one culture we might as well group it all together to simplify it. And if we dont group it together then no country would exist, right?

I did say that "india" had SOME connection to the philippines, you said there were HUGE which I truly disagreed with. The connection of india to the people that lived in the philippines isnt that significant compared to the spanish and chinese and I am talking about pre and post spanish colonization. And you also have to understand that there were not alot of people back then as cultures are starting to develop with the number of population the more solidified the culture becomes.

A Tagalog couple of the Maharlika nobility caste depicted in the Boxer Codex of the 16th Century.

a south asian decent

India had greatly influenced the many different cultures of the Philippines through the Indianized Empires of the Buddhist Srivijaya and the Hindu Majapahit. The Indianized influences can be found in the many facets of Filipino culture, although it is less conspicuous than its Hispanic influence. The Islamization of the Philippines proves the strength of Muslim India.

Indian presence in the Philippines has been ongoing since prehistoric times along with the Chinese and Japanese, predating even the coming of the Europeans by at least two centuries. Indians, together with the natives of the Indonesian Archipelago and the Malay Peninsula, traded with natives and introduced and passed Hinduism and Buddhism to the natives were Philippines. The first known mention of the Visayas in history is in the 12th century, when the region is thought to have been ruled by the empire of Srivijaya. Most of them stayed in the Philippines where they were slowly absorbed to native society.

Sepoy troops from Chennai of Tamil Nadu, of India also arrived with the British expedition and occupation between 1762 and 1764 during the Seven Years' War. When the British withdrew, many of the Sepoys mutinied and refused to leave. Virtually all had taken Filipina brides (or soon did so). They settled in what is now Cainta, Rizal, just east of Metro Manila. The region in and around Cainta still has many Sepoy descendants. The most recent immigrants are mostly businessmen and settle within Metro Manila.[citation needed] The immigrant students and children of recent immigrants study English, as they know that Philippines is a third largest English-speaking nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asians_in_the_Philippines

A "tagalog" couple?. You do know that the people in the picture look middle eastern right?.

and you do know i said "a south asian decent" HELLIOOOOOOOOOOO!

^ his intelligence has been romanticed my our hisotrians. if rizal was alive today, he might take that as an insult.

Thats not what im saying, you siad they are "tagalog" and clearly in the picture they are middle eastern.

But anyways, graham was saying that we have a huge indian connection PRE hispanic. Not during or post.

Eh, wasn't there a British connection with the Philippines?

I think we are talking about influence in our culture....

Yeah but I'm just saying, I think there was some small minor account of British influence in the PI back around the 1800's or something.

This website goes into detail about Indian influence in the Philippines. I thought these quotes were interesting:

no.

during or post? what!? its largely embedded into in us by blood and culture. its just your too closed off to even remotely think of theory of it.

lol promo, you seem so angry all the time.

Spanish colonization used Christianity as an instrument for conquest.

i like truth in this sentence.


and this..


The legacy of Spanish Conquest and colonial rule in the Philippines, was a colonial attempts to 'master' or manage indigenous populations. Spanish clergy were very destructive of local religious practices. They systematically destroyed indigenous holy places and 'idols', or statues and representations of indigenous spirits, gods or goddesses. They also tried to stamp out all examples of native scripts and literature for fear that Filipinos were using exotic symbols to foment rebellion.

this sentence reflects the mentally of some Filipinos. LOSERS.

Yeah well considering the source... LMAO.... Did you know that hindus keep claiming the they influenced buddhism?, some of their "scholars" even say that buddhist concepts was derived from hinduism. These people(not all hindus) like to claim things with no proof. Just pure speculation. And remember, i never said there were no influence, I said its very small compared to the chinese and spanish influence.



Please educate yourself, mr. "You dont know what a cenus is"... lol


he dont get laid... thats why...

actually the picture was of tagalogs. it's well know fact that chinese and arabic clothes are well used by many rich Malays (i think there are sulu natives who've been documented wearing chinese clothes), given also that maynilad is not only a rich trading city (pasig had been as site of chinese traders) but also muslim. here's another picture of tagalogs from the boxer codex. clearly they look very 'middle eastern' but they are of tagalog maidens.



as for ON topic, i agree with what most say it's the other way around, HOWEVER i wouldn't go so far. the so called "they love everything American" is often exaggerated. there are a few authors of filipino contemporary history who documented much anti-Americanism during the sovereign years esp. during right before and after the Marcos regime . as for "they think Spanish are evil" HA! Why in the world would IMSCF syndrome be so rampant? So many Hispanophiles here, some would deny their native identity for their colonial masters'. Gimme a break.

\

oOOo wow you caught me, i misspelled a word. + 1 for you.

considering the source, considering it NOT WIKI. where its easily edited. that gives its sources too FROM BOOKS.




its people here that can't talk about both sides of the history.