So I was talking to my Dad this morning, you know normal stuff like weather, school, etc. Then I saw in the news related to America and I said "I don't like America."
Then all of a sudden he starts yelling and such, like how America is the greatest country in the world, without America a lot of countries would be poor. His so proud that the Americans colonized Philippines, and that we should have remained American, and that America is so great because they gave us independence.
Also he started saying how Americans are so smart and advanced, etc.
To me, this is the result of our Pro-American history books, which into my perspective has clearly diluted by Dad's mind. Now I avoid talking anything American to my dad, and I tell him go live in America , why live in Canada?! He even said Canada is semi-communist and crap, and that America is great, etc.
Also he has Spanish-Filipino ancestry, but somehow he never credits Spain for anything! Like seriously, isn't that sad?! A Filipino with mixed Spanish ancestry thinks that Spanish people are horrible people, wow!
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
Now you see why I'm interested in Hispanic culture of Philippines, because ever since I lived there, I didn't know much about it. Most of my teachers never really thought me about like the Spanish national anthem of Philippines, etc.
It's like I was thought about the Americans and Tribal stuff, but nobody ever thought me about my great great-grandfathers culture.
It's not that I think America should cease to exist, but I think that Filipinos should stop praising them so much!
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
Full Version: Why are Filipinos So Pro-American?!
QUOTE(LazyAzian @ Apr 5 2008, 08:39 AM) [snapback]3616257[/snapback]
So I was talking to my Dad this morning, you know normal stuff like weather, school, etc. Then I saw in the news related to America and I said "I don't like America."
Then all of a sudden he starts yelling and such, like how America is the greatest country in the world, without America a lot of countries would be poor. His so proud that the Americans colonized Philippines, and that we should have remained American, and that America is so great because they gave us independence.
Also he started saying how Americans are so smart and advanced, etc.
To me, this is the result of our Pro-American history books, which into my perspective has clearly diluted by Dad's mind. Now I avoid talking anything American to my dad, and I tell him go live in America , why live in Canada?! He even said Canada is semi-communist and crap, and that America is great, etc.
Also he has Spanish ancestry, but somehow he never credits Spain for anything! Like seriously, isn't that sad?! A Filipino with clear Spanish ancestry thinks that Spanish people are horrible people, wow!
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
Then all of a sudden he starts yelling and such, like how America is the greatest country in the world, without America a lot of countries would be poor. His so proud that the Americans colonized Philippines, and that we should have remained American, and that America is so great because they gave us independence.
Also he started saying how Americans are so smart and advanced, etc.
To me, this is the result of our Pro-American history books, which into my perspective has clearly diluted by Dad's mind. Now I avoid talking anything American to my dad, and I tell him go live in America , why live in Canada?! He even said Canada is semi-communist and crap, and that America is great, etc.
Also he has Spanish ancestry, but somehow he never credits Spain for anything! Like seriously, isn't that sad?! A Filipino with clear Spanish ancestry thinks that Spanish people are horrible people, wow!
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
Think Tibet and look at a map and see how close China is, then think Spratleys and ask yourself why we haven't been invaded yet.
QUOTE
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
Maybe your father is tired of being an Indio, unlike you
you're overreacting...
forgive your dad..he's old..very sentimental...
forgive your dad..he's old..very sentimental...
QUOTE(LazyAzian @ Apr 5 2008, 09:39 PM) [snapback]3616257[/snapback]
So I was talking to my Dad this morning, you know normal stuff like weather, school, etc. Then I saw in the news related to America and I said "I don't like America."
Then all of a sudden he starts yelling and such, like how America is the greatest country in the world, without America a lot of countries would be poor. His so proud that the Americans colonized Philippines, and that we should have remained American, and that America is so great because they gave us independence.
Also he started saying how Americans are so smart and advanced, etc.
To me, this is the result of our Pro-American history books, which into my perspective has clearly diluted by Dad's mind. Now I avoid talking anything American to my dad, and I tell him go live in America , why live in Canada?! He even said Canada is semi-communist and crap, and that America is great, etc.
Also he has Spanish-Filipino ancestry, but somehow he never credits Spain for anything! Like seriously, isn't that sad?! A Filipino with mixed Spanish ancestry thinks that Spanish people are horrible people, wow!
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
Now you see why I'm interested in Hispanic culture of Philippines, because ever since I lived there, I didn't know much about it. Most of my teachers never really thought me about like the Spanish national anthem of Philippines, etc.
It's like I was thought about the Americans and Tribal stuff, but nobody ever thought me about my great great-grandfathers culture.
It's not that I think America should cease to exist, but I think that Filipinos should stop praising them so much!
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
Then all of a sudden he starts yelling and such, like how America is the greatest country in the world, without America a lot of countries would be poor. His so proud that the Americans colonized Philippines, and that we should have remained American, and that America is so great because they gave us independence.
Also he started saying how Americans are so smart and advanced, etc.
To me, this is the result of our Pro-American history books, which into my perspective has clearly diluted by Dad's mind. Now I avoid talking anything American to my dad, and I tell him go live in America , why live in Canada?! He even said Canada is semi-communist and crap, and that America is great, etc.
Also he has Spanish-Filipino ancestry, but somehow he never credits Spain for anything! Like seriously, isn't that sad?! A Filipino with mixed Spanish ancestry thinks that Spanish people are horrible people, wow!
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
Now you see why I'm interested in Hispanic culture of Philippines, because ever since I lived there, I didn't know much about it. Most of my teachers never really thought me about like the Spanish national anthem of Philippines, etc.
It's like I was thought about the Americans and Tribal stuff, but nobody ever thought me about my great great-grandfathers culture.
It's not that I think America should cease to exist, but I think that Filipinos should stop praising them so much!
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
LOLOLOL dude.....
hahaha you got told off by your dad because you said that...btw why do you hate America lol ??
the Spanish was horrible anyway, much worse than the Americans i guess.
yeah don't worry to much about it...it's your dad and he has a very conservative view.
You all just need to follow Felltohell's lead
I can't help it. I live here.
Lol. America sucks balls.
You dad is living in the past.
Sure many Filipino may have benefited from the America of the past, but I mean come on. America in the present isn't doing too well. They may be the most powerful nation on Earth, but in the end, they're trillions of dollars in debt and no one likes them. Thes days, to like America just means you're in denial.
You dad is living in the past.
Sure many Filipino may have benefited from the America of the past, but I mean come on. America in the present isn't doing too well. They may be the most powerful nation on Earth, but in the end, they're trillions of dollars in debt and no one likes them. Thes days, to like America just means you're in denial.
I remember an article in Times magazine about the worlds view on USA... and out of all the countries asked only the Philippines and some african country i dont remember the name of had a mostly positive view on USA 
^to hamlet, another generalization. just because of politics don't mean Americans are now a bunch of evil people. Americans aren't angels, now or before, but it doesn't mean you can gloss over their deeds past or present. we shouldn't like America or Americans because "other people don't like them", it's stupid and childish.
I think people here are just using anti-American, anti-Tagalog campaigns and then rationalizing it with utilitarian arguments to bring the Spanish back. To see these Indios prop up their puny Spanish ancestry and almost often disregard their majority Austronesian ancestry ("too much tribal stuff"?!) is just appalling. IMSCF-variance to the max.
Anywho, I hardly believe this conversation happened. I've spoken to my grandfather and his friends when I was 11 or 12 and most of them have moderate view of Americans, my grandfather is critical of their colonialism and he especially (even when he's a victim of the Japanese) think that Americans bomb the Japanese when it isn't necessary. He's also partly socialist and thinks that American support for Marcos had consequences for the plight of workers.
As for 'teaching more Spanish' are you kidding me? when I went to school there in the Philippines half of what we've learned are Hispanized Philippines. The dress and dances we had during esp. days were Spanish dances and costumes. What they've taught in civics are variance of Hispanized Philippine-version of citizenship identity. They taught hispanic era literature ie Florante at Laura. If in any case I think Philippines should teach more of various ethnic and pre-hispanic studies. It's appalling to see how little (if yes, generalized) knowledge of our own past.
If you can't get more Spain go to Spain. You may get an orgasmic overblow though so you might bring more tissues and better pair of pants to clean yourself up in Madrid Barajas Airport.
Is it me or majority of these pro-Spanish, Cebuanos? sorry to put that out, but lots of these mofos here are Cebuanos.
Not advocating for hate of Spanish, but why is our options either to hate the Americans or hate the Spanish. Why can't we hate them both, or why can't we just focus on our own national pride? It's the past let's get overof praising them both.
I think people here are just using anti-American, anti-Tagalog campaigns and then rationalizing it with utilitarian arguments to bring the Spanish back. To see these Indios prop up their puny Spanish ancestry and almost often disregard their majority Austronesian ancestry ("too much tribal stuff"?!) is just appalling. IMSCF-variance to the max.
Anywho, I hardly believe this conversation happened. I've spoken to my grandfather and his friends when I was 11 or 12 and most of them have moderate view of Americans, my grandfather is critical of their colonialism and he especially (even when he's a victim of the Japanese) think that Americans bomb the Japanese when it isn't necessary. He's also partly socialist and thinks that American support for Marcos had consequences for the plight of workers.
As for 'teaching more Spanish' are you kidding me? when I went to school there in the Philippines half of what we've learned are Hispanized Philippines. The dress and dances we had during esp. days were Spanish dances and costumes. What they've taught in civics are variance of Hispanized Philippine-version of citizenship identity. They taught hispanic era literature ie Florante at Laura. If in any case I think Philippines should teach more of various ethnic and pre-hispanic studies. It's appalling to see how little (if yes, generalized) knowledge of our own past.
If you can't get more Spain go to Spain. You may get an orgasmic overblow though so you might bring more tissues and better pair of pants to clean yourself up in Madrid Barajas Airport.
Is it me or majority of these pro-Spanish, Cebuanos? sorry to put that out, but lots of these mofos here are Cebuanos.
Not advocating for hate of Spanish, but why is our options either to hate the Americans or hate the Spanish. Why can't we hate them both, or why can't we just focus on our own national pride? It's the past let's get overof praising them both.
^In the same light, you can't like American people just because the American government gave Filipinos education.
I'm comparing them on the same level. When people say "pro-American", I assume they mean that they're in support of America's policies and the overall condition of the country. No one says "pro-American" because they like American people. I didn't think anyone would actually think I was referring to American people because you've lectured me enough times for me to stop doing that.
I will read the other 63634 paragraphs of your post later.
EDIT:
correct
I'm comparing them on the same level. When people say "pro-American", I assume they mean that they're in support of America's policies and the overall condition of the country. No one says "pro-American" because they like American people. I didn't think anyone would actually think I was referring to American people because you've lectured me enough times for me to stop doing that.
I will read the other 63634 paragraphs of your post later.
EDIT:
QUOTE
Is it me or majority of these pro-Spanish, Cebuanos? sorry to put that out, but lots of these mofos here are Cebuanos.
correct
QUOTE(ham_let @ Apr 5 2008, 01:13 PM) [snapback]3616491[/snapback]
^In the same light, you can't like American people just because the American government gave Filipinos education.
I'm comparing them on the same level. When people say "pro-American", I assume they mean that they're in support of America's policies and the overall condition of the country. No one says "pro-American" because they like American people. I didn't think anyone would actually think I was referring to American people because you've lectured me enough times for me to stop doing that.
I will read the other 63634 paragraphs of your post later.
EDIT:
correct
I'm comparing them on the same level. When people say "pro-American", I assume they mean that they're in support of America's policies and the overall condition of the country. No one says "pro-American" because they like American people. I didn't think anyone would actually think I was referring to American people because you've lectured me enough times for me to stop doing that.
I will read the other 63634 paragraphs of your post later.
EDIT:
correct
i never said i like them for that, i'm just saying why do we have to like or hate them simply because the world in its fickleness do? why do hate the Spanish because of their past? In either case, let's stop praising both. If we are to praise, we ought to praise in educated analytical means, and in specifics. Can we just be Filipinos? Let's look inward for a change! Let's not exchange outward view for another.
Fair enough.
Or we could just be pro-Koreano b/c we like their dramas lol.
Or we could just be pro-Koreano b/c we like their dramas lol.
QUOTE(ham_let @ Apr 5 2008, 12:19 PM) [snapback]3616503[/snapback]
Fair enough.
Or we could just be pro-Koreano b/c we like their dramas lol.
Or we could just be pro-Koreano b/c we like their dramas lol.
. just kidding.You know whats weird. Most Filipinos are proud of being Filipinos, so why do we fight all the time if we are all on the same side?
Americans are great people. They aren't evil, just the opposite, they are extremely nice. But America as a State has had many questionable foreign policy endeavors. In history, they have wronged countries like Spain, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Philippines, Hawaii, Vietnam, China, Panama, and many others for their self interest. Peanuts compared to the individual wrongs done by Spain, Britain, France, Portugal, Netherlands, Japan, and Germany.
Would you rather the United States have the dominant world influence, or would you rather it be China, Russia, or the European Union? I'll stick with the U.S.
Lets face it, if not for the U.S., this world would be divided into right-wing fascists and communist regimes.
QUOTE(flipcombatmedic @ Apr 5 2008, 09:47 AM) [snapback]3616456[/snapback]
Is it me or majority of these pro-Spanish, Cebuanos? sorry to put that out, but lots of these mofos here are Cebuanos.
Not advocating for hate of Spanish, but why is our options either to hate the Americans or hate the Spanish. Why can't we hate them both, or why can't we just focus on our own national pride? It's the past let's get overof praising them both.
Not advocating for hate of Spanish, but why is our options either to hate the Americans or hate the Spanish. Why can't we hate them both, or why can't we just focus on our own national pride? It's the past let's get overof praising them both.
SERIOUSLY, its like a child abandonment issues, i say.
i agree, its really TIME to move ahead with each other for better, brighter future. lets leave these types of people alone and just consider them as outsiders. there's no good out come to their type of mentality. as you can see how Philippines is now.
QUOTE
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
lol, are you sure about that... where Philippines history is WHITE washed already. itll only bring in horror stories of the past....
SERIOUSLY MOVE ON YOU, HAVE NO TIES WITH SPAIN.
Spanish people ain't that great.
you are both wrong. japan is the future and will lead the rest of the world into modernity and kawaiiness.
sa totoo lang.
sa totoo lang.
QUOTE(Najjiah @ Apr 5 2008, 10:26 PM) [snapback]3617309[/snapback]
you are both wrong. japan is the future and will lead the rest of the world into modernity and kawaiiness.
sa totoo lang.
sa totoo lang.
Japan ain't that great.
Colonial mentality what else could it be!!!
and lazydude that was your dad not the Filipinos.. 
gotta set a demarcation line
gotta set a demarcation line
Blame it on America's superpower status, which is currently declining.
QUOTE(iMumble @ Apr 6 2008, 05:47 AM) [snapback]3617964[/snapback]
Blame it on America's superpower status, which is currently declining.
QUOTE(iMumble @ Apr 6 2008, 07:47 AM) [snapback]3617964[/snapback]
Blame it on America's superpower status, which is currently declining.
That's what they said in the early 90's. U.S.A is still # 1. The country is just in a recession, which is inevitable according to the business cycle theory.
QUOTE(iMumble @ Apr 6 2008, 07:47 AM) [snapback]3617964[/snapback]
Blame it on America's superpower status, which is currently declining.
You should do some research.
The depression during the 1930's was worse because it was never experienced before, therefore there was no backup to give debt relief:
http://mutualfunds.about.com/cs/1929market...lack_monday.htm
Another Black Monday also occurred in 1987:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987)
These events both took the US by surprise yet the government took steps to secure the economy and investors' confidence rose. Asia also had it's economic downfall in 1997: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_financial_crisis
All these events did not signal the end of a country, it only temporarily weakened them.
Knowing what we know about the economy and the experiences from lessons learned in the past, setbacks like what the economy is going through isn't permanent. I'm sure you weren't aware of these events as you're too young to have even cared about the lessons on the economy for now.
Superpowers come and go, but if your country can manage itself financially and restructure everything to fix itself, i'm sure the superpower status thing won't go away anytime soon.
It's safe to assume that your comment might have been brought on by world events where the US is hated for its foreign policies and not for its present economic status.
just gota love america
we all want the american dream
and yeah
dont hate spain...
we all want the american dream
and yeah
dont hate spain...
most OFWs are where?
QUOTE(speedyg0nzalez2 @ Apr 8 2008, 07:42 AM) [snapback]3621302[/snapback]
just gota love america
we all want the american dream
and yeah
dont hate spain...
we all want the american dream
and yeah
dont hate spain...
yeah, american dream....
i don't think filipinos are really pro-american...
they just like to live like americans do...
they just like to live like americans do...
QUOTE(calliezhou @ Apr 8 2008, 01:02 PM) [snapback]3622118[/snapback]
i don't think filipinos are really pro-american...
they just like to live like americans do...
they just like to live like americans do...
+100
I heard the OC is popular over there.
QUOTE(JakeCutter @ Apr 8 2008, 01:11 PM) [snapback]3622134[/snapback]
I heard the OC is popular over there.
actually, all american shows are....
my faves are gilmore girls, entourage, csi (vegas), smallville, numb3rs, prison break, 24, many to mention...lolz
oh, and gossip girl, heroes, grey's anatomy...almost all american tv shows....
and when dawson's creek was quite pop, every girl likes to be joey...
opps...my friend likes to be jen...whatever... i just remembered....
opps...my friend likes to be jen...whatever... i just remembered....
Why do Filipinos love Levis Jeans, Mc Donalds and Skin Whiteners?
watch studio 23...
QUOTE(LazyAzian @ Apr 5 2008, 05:39 PM) [snapback]3616257[/snapback]
So I was talking to my Dad this morning, you know normal stuff like weather, school, etc. Then I saw in the news related to America and I said "I don't like America."
Then all of a sudden he starts yelling and such, like how America is the greatest country in the world, without America a lot of countries would be poor. His so proud that the Americans colonized Philippines, and that we should have remained American, and that America is so great because they gave us independence.
Also he started saying how Americans are so smart and advanced, etc.
To me, this is the result of our Pro-American history books, which into my perspective has clearly diluted by Dad's mind. Now I avoid talking anything American to my dad, and I tell him go live in America , why live in Canada?! He even said Canada is semi-communist and crap, and that America is great, etc.
Also he has Spanish-Filipino ancestry, but somehow he never credits Spain for anything! Like seriously, isn't that sad?! A Filipino with mixed Spanish ancestry thinks that Spanish people are horrible people, wow!
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
Now you see why I'm interested in Hispanic culture of Philippines, because ever since I lived there, I didn't know much about it. Most of my teachers never really thought me about like the Spanish national anthem of Philippines, etc.
It's like I was thought about the Americans and Tribal stuff, but nobody ever thought me about my great great-grandfathers culture.
It's not that I think America should cease to exist, but I think that Filipinos should stop praising them so much!
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
Then all of a sudden he starts yelling and such, like how America is the greatest country in the world, without America a lot of countries would be poor. His so proud that the Americans colonized Philippines, and that we should have remained American, and that America is so great because they gave us independence.
Also he started saying how Americans are so smart and advanced, etc.
To me, this is the result of our Pro-American history books, which into my perspective has clearly diluted by Dad's mind. Now I avoid talking anything American to my dad, and I tell him go live in America , why live in Canada?! He even said Canada is semi-communist and crap, and that America is great, etc.
Also he has Spanish-Filipino ancestry, but somehow he never credits Spain for anything! Like seriously, isn't that sad?! A Filipino with mixed Spanish ancestry thinks that Spanish people are horrible people, wow!
He said I shouldn't insult our American ally, but then he insults his Spanish great-great grandfather.
Now you see why I'm interested in Hispanic culture of Philippines, because ever since I lived there, I didn't know much about it. Most of my teachers never really thought me about like the Spanish national anthem of Philippines, etc.
It's like I was thought about the Americans and Tribal stuff, but nobody ever thought me about my great great-grandfathers culture.
It's not that I think America should cease to exist, but I think that Filipinos should stop praising them so much!
FIX OUR HISTORY BOOKS!
Your dad is a stupid filipino who does not love his own country. He think america is God. That is why Philippine is always poor and never progress among ASEAN country because mostly
filipinos think that other country like Americas or British are much higher form of Human being than the filipinos.
No wonder Filipinos always stay sucks and always at the lowest level because of their mentality that others are better than their own Roots and Nationality. Filipinos are the one putting down themselves becuase they always uplift ohter nationality..that sucks.
QUOTE(Najjiah @ Apr 6 2008, 05:26 AM) [snapback]3617309[/snapback]
you are both wrong. japan is the future and will lead the rest of the world into modernity and kawaiiness.
sa totoo lang.
sa totoo lang.
yay! when Leahsako Dizonoto become prime minister one day, Japan will lead the world and she would do something good for the Philippines and Europeans also! 
QUOTE(calliezhou @ Apr 7 2008, 10:19 PM) [snapback]3622153[/snapback]
actually, all american shows are....
my faves are gilmore girls, entourage, csi (vegas), smallville, numb3rs, prison break, 24, many to mention...lolz
oh, and gossip girl, heroes, grey's anatomy...almost all american tv shows....
my faves are gilmore girls, entourage, csi (vegas), smallville, numb3rs, prison break, 24, many to mention...lolz
oh, and gossip girl, heroes, grey's anatomy...almost all american tv shows....
Lol, you watch more American television than I do.
Probably because I don't watch television.
QUOTE(calliezhou @ Apr 8 2008, 01:19 AM) [snapback]3622153[/snapback]
actually, all american shows are....
my faves are gilmore girls, entourage, csi (vegas), smallville, numb3rs, prison break, 24, many to mention...lolz
oh, and gossip girl, heroes, grey's anatomy...almost all american tv shows....
my faves are gilmore girls, entourage, csi (vegas), smallville, numb3rs, prison break, 24, many to mention...lolz
oh, and gossip girl, heroes, grey's anatomy...almost all american tv shows....
entourage is funny as hell....
While I live here in America and recently became a U.S. citizen, I'm not pro-American nor anti-American. I generally don't support people like Bush in power but really I do not care at all. All I care about is myself.
QUOTE(Iki @ Apr 9 2008, 07:17 AM) [snapback]3623723[/snapback]
entourage is funny as hell....
yeah, i love ari!
drama is just ......
QUOTE(garouga @ Apr 9 2008, 07:49 AM) [snapback]3623781[/snapback]
While I live here in America and recently became a U.S. citizen, I'm not pro-American nor anti-American. I generally don't support people like Bush in power but really I do not care at all. All I care about is myself.
that's some news....
QUOTE(martin_nuke @ Apr 8 2008, 01:59 PM) [snapback]3622215[/snapback]
Why do Filipinos love Levis Jeans, Mc Donalds and Skin Whiteners?
it's called colonial mentality. not necessarily loving or adoring america!
filipinos love what they don't have - blond hair, fair skin, blue eyes...etc
they also love things imported. but they don't just love mcdonalds or levi's. they also wear Wolford, Giordano, etc.
QUOTE(martin_nuke @ Apr 7 2008, 10:59 PM) [snapback]3622215[/snapback]
Why do Filipinos love Levis Jeans, Mc Donalds and Skin Whiteners?
so do japanese, and your point is?
QUOTE(slammer @ Apr 8 2008, 09:43 AM) [snapback]3622957[/snapback]
Your dad is a stupid filipino who does not love his own country. He think america is God. That is why Philippine is always poor and never progress among ASEAN country because mostly
filipinos think that other country like Americas or British are much higher form of Human being than the filipinos.
No wonder Filipinos always stay sucks and always at the lowest level because of their mentality that others are better than their own Roots and Nationality. Filipinos are the one putting down themselves becuase they always uplift ohter nationality..that sucks.
filipinos think that other country like Americas or British are much higher form of Human being than the filipinos.
No wonder Filipinos always stay sucks and always at the lowest level because of their mentality that others are better than their own Roots and Nationality. Filipinos are the one putting down themselves becuase they always uplift ohter nationality..that sucks.
........... really, i have nothing as much as his statement hurts it true.
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