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sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(Esfandiari @ Jul 31 2008, 12:40 PM) [snapback]3842734[/snapback]
dreamhunter and gunongjerai..... I must salute you guys for your deep and intense knowledge about Kedah history!! I have no idea about those funny-sounding names of Kedah's ancient Hindu rulers!! Though born, bred and raised in the ricelands of Kedah in the vicinities of Alor Star, I never know these parts of Kedah history that you guys are discussing about, so not much I can contribute to this thread...

.....besides I've been busy engaging that swingdoctor that dreamhunter, Perisailangkasuka and AwangPembela have now avoided and conveniently leave it to me to do battle!! Hahahaha!! Come on dreamy..let's engage swingdoc like you used to!!

Anyway, I've started to venture into Indonesia Chat like you once advised me but I'm avoidng threads on Srivijaya and Majapahit....boring threads that will only lead to useless arguments with the Indonesians!! I saw how some fo them tried to chase you out of the discussion there because they couldn't accept your views!! Hahaha!!

Anyway, back to Kedah Kingdom, my knowldege about ancient Kedah history comes from stories told to me by my late grandparents. I still have grandaunties and granduncles who sometimes enlighten me on Kedah history, but even their knowledge is not as wholesome as yours. My mom, on the other hand, is very good in tracing her and my dad's ancestral lineage that goes all the way to Kelantan, Java and Sumatra apart from the Kedah portion of that lineage..



hehe, what can I do, I am a proud Kedahan and can't take Indonesian a.k.a Javanese superiority while we have our own glorious kingdom. You still can contribute anything about Kedah Sultanate and how Kedahan fight the Siam invasion. And on how Kedahan had offered help to our Patanese brothers during Siam invasion. They are interesting too biggthumpup.gif
dreamhunter
QUOTE(Esfandiari @ Jul 30 2008, 11:40 PM) [snapback]3842734[/snapback]
1. dreamhunter and gunongjerai..... I must salute you guys for your deep and intense knowledge about Kedah history!! I have no idea about those funny-sounding names of Kedah's ancient Hindu rulers!! Though born, bred and raised in the ricelands of Kedah in the vicinities of Alor Star, I never know these parts of Kedah history that you guys are discussing about, so not much I can contribute to this thread...

2. .....besides I've been busy engaging that swingdoctor that dreamhunter, Perisailangkasuka and AwangPembela have now avoided and conveniently leave it to me to do battle!! Hahahaha!! Come on dreamy..let's engage swingdoc like you used to!!

3. Anyway, I've started to venture into Indonesia Chat like you once advised me but I'm avoidng threads on Srivijaya and Majapahit....boring threads that will only lead to useless arguments with the Indonesians!! I saw how some fo them tried to chase you out of the discussion there because they couldn't accept your views!! Hahaha!!

1. Well, like they say, in this day n age, wisdom is only a click away. One click then leads to another ... then to another ... then to another ... n so on ... n so forth. So. I don't really need to spin out my own threads like a spider. Ha ha ha.

So, if ya keep persisting, within a week or 2, wellll, a month or 2, ya'd b enuff of an expert, or maybe at least an eggspurt, on Langkasuka, Srivijaya, Melaka etc., to give any average history buff a run for his money. Like maybe to challenge, rebut n downright dismiss Prof. Khoo Khay Kim's stupid Chinese Hang Tuah theory. He he he. laugh.gif

But Son has an extra edge, of course, cos he can read Thai, Khmer, Tamil, Sanskrit n Pallavi, or is it Pali. He he he.

2. So, ya see. I'm leveraging on the power of delegation. Ha ha ha. laugh.gif
But don't ya worry, I'll keep snipin at that dude every now n again. When he least expects it, preferably.

Thing is, ya can't really engage that geezer properly. He'll just keep twistin n turnin, n keep comin back at ya, no matter wot ya say. Ya see, he's got a big axe to grind with us. It seems that he n his folks had their Bumiputera status revoked some time back. So they all went into a great, big sulk n went off to Oz. embarassedlaugh.gif

3. I tried to cucuk jarum a bit with them. Jolok srg tebuan sikit. Like belittle their achievements a bit, like say that Gajah Mada was a Malay who was just waiting for the right time to bring down Majapahit n revive Srivijaya. That sort of thing. Half in jest actually. But he WAS really a Jambian Malayu, some folks say.

N also say things like, "Bhinneka Tunggal Ika" actually means "Unity in Javasity". Ha ha ha. Cos they're just too irritatingly syok sendiri, you know. Lost in their own world. He he he.

But they're just hopelessly sensitive, besides lacking in sense of humour. They also tend to always look down on our little Langkasuka. Saying that our Malay identity, culture n language were just "adopted" (read: stolen) from Malayu Jambi, that sort of stuff. Also we didn't have a big empire, with great monuments, grand like theirs la, you know. So I just got bored n phased myself out after a while. But not before tradin enuff insults n putdowns with them first. He he he.

N you know what? After I left, those threads just slowed down substantially, cos they were so painfully dull. Lack of humour, you see. It's all just historical/academic self-aggrandisement n auto-eroticism on their part. laugh.gif

Depa gila nak syok sndighi, biaaq pi kat depa lah. He he he.
dreamhunter
QUOTE(sonofgunongjerai @ Jul 31 2008, 10:09 AM) [snapback]3843433[/snapback]
hehe, what can I do, I am a proud Kedahan and can't take Indonesian a.k.a Javanese superiority while we have our own glorious kingdom. You still can contribute anything about Kedah Sultanate and how Kedahan fight the Siam invasion. And on how Kedahan had offered help to our Patanese brothers during Siam invasion. They are interesting too biggthumpup.gif

I believe that what Chulamanivarmadeva sponsored for Chola in Nagapattinam in 1005 was a Hindu kovil, not a Buddhist wat. It's like, a special gift from Srivijaya for the Chola kerajaan n rakyat.

* * *
Apa nak wat, kita punya Langkasuka pun kecik kenit, tak besaaq mcm depa punya Srivijaya & Majapahit kan. Tak da candi besaaq2 pulak tu. Kena takluk dgn depa pulak tu.

Tapi kita punya Melaka tu klu lama sikit lg dah dkt nak buleh gomoi depa punya Majapahit kut. He he he. biggthumpup.gif

So you can tell them that 2 Semenanjung Malay kings from Ligor actually became Maharaja of their glorious Srivijaya for a while. Their names were Shi li hu ta ya li tan po mo (Sri Udayadityavarman) (960 - 962) n Shi li wu yeh (Sri Virauraja), also called Hsia Chih (Sojita) (962 - 988). beerchug.gif

Before Sri Virauraja/Sojita passed over to Chulamanivarmadeva n went back to Ligor in 988. To start preparing n strategising for his eventual invasion, conquest n takeover of Angkor in 1002. Yayyy! biggthumpup.gif beerchug.gif biggthumpup.gif beerchug.gif

But I gotta look for more supporting evidence to back up this speculation by my Khmer friend.
sonofgunongjerai
Not leaving the Glory of Kedah Kingdom being sinked down here is some information that I got, courtesy from a Thai friend in Thai chat about Chamatewi or Jamadevi in relation with Kedah and Nakon Si Thammarat.

QUOTE
They said that in the past, they believed Chamthewi was a Mon, but nowadays it seems to appear that she at least has the blood of southerner. Evidences to support this are the Nakhon Si Thammarat chronicle (Lamplo edition) (แหลมโพธิ์), which was written before the foundation of Ayutthaya and the Indonesia stone inscription, which can be dated to between the 13rd Ė 14th century B.E.

Both evidences state identically about a thewi of Sivichai as the following. " Her real name is unknown, but her title name is Chantharathewi (Chandradevi). She has a husband from the royal family of Chantharawong (Chandrawangsa). Later on she escapes a war to Lauboonchai (Haripoonchai). " The story of this thewi is quite the same as Chamthewií s story. They cannot decipher the story of any other thewi in thai histories and legends during this time period. So it is likely to say that she has the southerner's blood.


Southerners are actually referring to the Malays.

HangPC2
Raja Bersiong (1968)









Raja Bersiong is a 1968 Malaysian horror film in Malay directed by Jamil Sulong and based on a story by former Malaysian Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman. Despite costing RM 750,000 to produce, ten times the cost of the average Malaysian film, it was a flop at the box-office.

The story is loosely based on historical myth Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa, that told about pre-Islamic Kedah that once was once ruled by Raja Ong Maha Perita Deria. The story is very popular that it have been made into movie in 1963 and 1968. It also being presented as teater by Petronas Performing Arts Groupís.


Synopsis


A King and his troops came across a town called Kampung Gading. There they met a strong but mute and deaf man named Badang, who is the personal servant of a young woman named Chomel. The King pretended to be a normal guard as part of a plan to lure Badang to become his personal protector and Chomel to become his wife. His plan was successful, and he married Chomel.

Some time later, the king's appetite changed. At dinner one night, he commends the cook for the delicious dish and asked what the main ingredient was. The cook was forced revealed that the unusual taste was due to the cook's own blood, which had fallen into the dish when he hand was bleeding. The king found love for the taste of human blood, and over time he grew fangs and began attacking his own people to feast on them.


Sources : http://hamlau.proboards44.com
Esfandiari
QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Aug 19 2008, 05:11 AM) [snapback]3879478[/snapback]
Raja Bersiong (1968)



Raja Bersiong is a 1968 Malaysian horror film in Malay directed by Jamil Sulong and based on a story by former Malaysian Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman. Despite costing RM 750,000 to produce, ten times the cost of the average Malaysian film, it was a flop at the box-office.

The story is loosely based on historical myth Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa, that told about pre-Islamic Kedah that once was once ruled by Raja Ong Maha Perita Deria. The story is very popular that it have been made into movie in 1963 and 1968. It also being presented as teater by Petronas Performing Arts Groupís.
Synopsis
A King and his troops came across a town called Kampung Gading. There they met a strong but mute and deaf man named Badang, who is the personal servant of a young woman named Chomel. The King pretended to be a normal guard as part of a plan to lure Badang to become his personal protector and Chomel to become his wife. His plan was successful, and he married Chomel.

Some time later, the king's appetite changed. At dinner one night, he commends the cook for the delicious dish and asked what the main ingredient was. The cook was forced revealed that the unusual taste was due to the cook's own blood, which had fallen into the dish when he hand was bleeding. The king found love for the taste of human blood, and over time he grew fangs and began attacking his own people to feast on them.
Sources : http://hamlau.proboards44.com


The defanging of the Raja Bersiong (Fanged King) was thought to have taken place in Baling district of Kedah. It was here that legends say that the mythical Fanged King (Raja Bersiong) defanged himself.....and then tossed ('baling' in Malay) his cursed 'siong' (fangs)!! Till this day the district has place names like 'Baling' (toss) and 'Siong' (fangs). If you drive towards Siong, you'll be greeted by a gerbang (arch) made of two big model fangs (siong) arching on both sides of the road leading to Siong..

Come visit Baling! Here's a picture of picturesque downtown Baling town.

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/3218079-th...ling-Baling.jpg
dreamhunter
QUOTE(sonofgunongjerai @ Aug 19 2008, 05:01 AM) [snapback]3879471[/snapback]
Not leaving the Glory of Kedah Kingdom being sinked down here is some information that I got, courtesy from a Thai friend in Thai chat about Chamatewi or Jamadevi in relation with Kedah and Nakon Si Thammarat.
Southerners are actually referring to the Malays.

1. You might be correct, after all, about Chulamanivarmadeva sponsoring a Buddist wat to Hindu Chola in 1012. I believe it was meant to serve Chola's Buddhist visitors, traders etc. Anyway what he did was exactly the same as what his ancestor Balaputra did about 1 1/2 centiries back, in sponsoring a Buddhist wat to Hindu Pala kingdom in Bengal.

2. Yes, from what I've read Chandradevi was the alternate name of Jamadevi/Chamadevi. Chandradevi wd hv meant Moon Goddess, right? As for Chamadevi/Jamadevi, I just can't guess. Cham Goddess, perhaps? Naaah, can't be. What does "Jama" mean in Sanskrit? Maybe you can make a better guess than me.

Anyway, I've long suspected a very, very close linkage between Mon n Malay, if not actually exact equivalence, at least in the ancient past. Like, maybe we used to be exactly the same people. I've read also that the Mons were supposed to be a soft, gentle people. A bit like Malays la. Not so quick to get into a fight, like Khmers n T'ais.

Anyway, the surviving Mon state in Myanmar today is in the southeastern region, which wd hv been the closest to the Malay region in the past.

Well, our ancestors were in there all over Thailand anyway, weren't they?

That's why also I suspected that "Mon" could be merely the T'ai way of saying "Mala". Just like "Nakhon" is their way of saying "Nagara".
Esfandiari
QUOTE(dreamhunter @ Aug 19 2008, 08:02 AM) [snapback]3879640[/snapback]
1. You might be correct, after all, about Chulamanivarmadeva sponsoring a Buddist wat to Hindu Chola in 1012. I believe it was meant to serve Chola's Buddhist visitors, traders etc. Anyway what he did was exactly the same as what his ancestor Balaputra did about 1 1/2 centiries back, in sponsoring a Buddhist wat to Hindu Pala kingdom in Bengal.

2. Yes, from what I've read Chandradevi was the alternate name of Jamadevi/Chamadevi. Chandradevi wd hv meant Moon Goddess, right? As for Chamadevi/Jamadevi, I just can't guess. Cham Goddess, perhaps? Naaah, can't be. What does "Jama" mean in Sanskrit? Maybe you can make a better guess than me.

Anyway, I've long suspected a very, very close linkage between Mon n Malay, if not actually exact equivalence, at least in the ancient past. Like, maybe we used to be exactly the same people. I've read also that the Mons were supposed to be a soft, gentle people. A bit like Malays la. Not so quick to get into a fight, like Khmers n T'ais.

Anyway, the surviving Mon state in Myanmar today is in the southeastern region, which wd hv been the closest to the Malay region in the past.

Well, our ancestors were in there all over Thailand anyway, weren't they?

That's why also I suspected that "Mon" could be merely the T'ai way of saying "Mala". Just like "Nakhon" is their way of saying "Nagara".


Chulamanivarmadeva? Chandradevi? Jarnadevi? Gee! I'm a Kedahan, but I don't know all these names, and I bet my elders don't know either. You guys are very smart, I'm learning from you guys everyday about my own state..

I only know about Madhuri Dixit, Manisha Koirala, Pretty Zinta, Rani Mukherji, Salman Khan, Shahrukh Khan, Amir Khan, Genghiz Khan, Kublai Khan, Hulagu Khan. Of course I know Megat Dewa, a place in Kedah. Does it have to do with Chulamanivarmadeva? What a long name!
sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(dreamhunter @ Aug 19 2008, 09:02 PM) [snapback]3879640[/snapback]
1. You might be correct, after all, about Chulamanivarmadeva sponsoring a Buddist wat to Hindu Chola in 1012. I believe it was meant to serve Chola's Buddhist visitors, traders etc. Anyway what he did was exactly the same as what his ancestor Balaputra did about 1 1/2 centiries back, in sponsoring a Buddhist wat to Hindu Pala kingdom in Bengal.

2. Yes, from what I've read Chandradevi was the alternate name of Jamadevi/Chamadevi. Chandradevi wd hv meant Moon Goddess, right? As for Chamadevi/Jamadevi, I just can't guess. Cham Goddess, perhaps? Naaah, can't be. What does "Jama" mean in Sanskrit? Maybe you can make a better guess than me.

Anyway, I've long suspected a very, very close linkage between Mon n Malay, if not actually exact equivalence, at least in the ancient past. Like, maybe we used to be exactly the same people. I've read also that the Mons were supposed to be a soft, gentle people. A bit like Malays la. Not so quick to get into a fight, like Khmers n T'ais.

Anyway, the surviving Mon state in Myanmar today is in the southeastern region, which wd hv been the closest to the Malay region in the past.

Well, our ancestors were in there all over Thailand anyway, weren't they?

That's why also I suspected that "Mon" could be merely the T'ai way of saying "Mala". Just like "Nakhon" is their way of saying "Nagara".


Concerning Mon people, maybe we can check this statement again:

QUOTE
An elderly grandmother from Yala, southern Thailand, was mistaken as having died after a bus crash. She was later found in Chiengmai. She couldn't speak a single Thai word, but only Pattani dialect of Malay. So she was sent to an old folks home in Chiengmai, far from her home in the South.

She kept singing Malay songs in Pattani Malay dialect, but people in Chiengmai thought that she was a Mon, because to them Pattani Malay dialect seems very much like Mon. So they called her Mon Grandma. That grandmother was stuck in Chiengmai for almost 15 years.

Fortunately, one day a group of students from Southern Thailand made a visit to the old folk house. They could identify the old grandma as a Malay from the South when listening to her singing. The old folks home then made arrangements to send her back to her family in Yala.


This event happened around two years ago, I can hardly remember whether I read it in Utusan or Berita Minggu sort of, but I also find out that someone had make the statement about this Mon Grandma story.

Yea, I had the same suspicion that Mon is actually the corruption in pronounciation of Mala or Mal if we mute the end vowel sound.

We can try checking the spelling in Sanskrit and Thai, the first one is Thai because Thai always mute the L sound at the end and change it into N.

QUOTE
ม + ล = มล[/size]

Mo + Lo = Mon

ม +ล + อา + ย์ = มลาย์

Mo + Lo + A + Y = Malaya/Malay


Reading Sanskrit is actually almost the same with reading Jawi, where you can pronounce the vowel of a syllable e.g Jawi syllable ك[size="3"] Ka being pronounced as Ko by Kedahan, and Ke by Johorian. The pronounciation of syllable with O is the pronounciation of Pali language, it is also used in Banggoli language which developed from Magadhi dialect of Prakhrit.

In Sanskrit again, Malaya means Mountain such as in Hi-Malaya (the Ice Mountain). So, Mon might means Mountain. Well, Malay too was said means Mountain.

Chama Devi might be the mispronounciation of Champa or Chempa Devi since old people had difficulty in pronouncing long names. Chempa is a flower and it is a loanword from Sanskrit. I do not know if it is the equivalent of Chempaka in Malay because Kedahans use to say Chempa for a kind of fragrant flower. I also found in Sanskrit dictionary on Jama, it means daughter.

She was said to be married to a Chandravanshi (Lunar race) King, they sasid that the king she married had connection with Sriwijaya or maybe Funan. From my reading, Funan line of kings is said to have belonged to the lunar (Chandravamsa) lineage of Kshatriyas . Likewise, the Kambuja line of kings is stated to have belonged to the solar (Suryavamsa) lineage. This proves that so-called sage Kaundinya as well as the learned prince Svayabhumva Kambu (or Kambuja) were both from the Kshatriya lineage since SOLAR and LUNAR lineages are attributed to the Kshatriyas only.

Therefore, it appears likely that Kaundinya, the so-called founder of Funan colony in Indo-China was probably a Kshatriya chief who became known as Kaundinya possibly because of the fact that his familiy priests belonged to Kaundinya gotra Brahmins. Further, the family name of the kings of Kambuja is stated to have been Cha'li which means Kshatriya. If this evidence is to be believed, then we may have to accept that the the founder-colonists of Funan and Kambuja dynasties were from Kshatriya lineage and were probably the Kambojas from Gujarat/Saurashtra.

People in Thailand admit that the people of Ligor had contributed in Theravada Buddhism. Like what you had said, there are people who said that Mon are actually Malays. This make me believe that they are the Proto Malays, the same as Kedahans, Kelantanese, Patanese, Orang Jakun and Orang Senoi.
dreamhunter
Now I'm convinced. We WERE the same people, we Mons n Langkasukan Malays. The same MALA a.k.a. MON a.k.a. MOUNTAIN people.

Yay! Righty ho! Hip hip, hurray! I'm off to Mon state in Myanmar soon now then. To visit n get to re-know my long-lost ancient relatives. biggthumpup.gif beerchug.gif

But I heard the Mons were quite advanced. Just imagine, Asoka sent them a group of Theravada monks from Magadha to preach to them in around 280 - 270 BC. So they must've been quite culturally developed in order to hv the ability to receive such religious education.

Hv a look at these pics of some young Mon boys n girls.





They've got typical Malay-looking face shapes n Malay-style eyes. Don't you think they look just like some ordinary Malay kids from our average Malay kampung?
dreamhunter
QUOTE(Esfandiari @ Aug 19 2008, 08:31 AM) [snapback]3879692[/snapback]
Chulamanivarmadeva? Chandradevi? Jarnadevi? Gee! I'm a Kedahan, but I don't know all these names, and I bet my elders don't know either. You guys are very smart, I'm learning from you guys everyday about my own state..

I only know about Madhuri Dixit, Manisha Koirala, Pretty Zinta, Rani Mukherji, Salman Khan, Shahrukh Khan, Amir Khan, Genghiz Khan, Kublai Khan, Hulagu Khan. Of course I know Megat Dewa, a place in Kedah. Does it have to do with Chulamanivarmadeva? What a long name!

Ha ha ha! I only learned from Wiki n some other guys. laugh.gif

Chulamani was actually a Palembangian. We were (over)ruled by Palembangian kings for some time, remember? His grandsonís name is just a bit longer: Sangramavijayattungavarman.

Our Melakan kings had long names too: e.g. Sultanalaudinriíayatshah. beerchug.gif

Chandradevi a.k.a. Chamadevi/Jamadevi was a queen of Haribhunjaya/Hariphunchai far up north who if our Sonny is correct could hv had Ligorian/Pattanian/Kedahan blood. Itís not impossible that some of your Kedahan royalty, maybe also some of our Kelantanese royalty, couldíve been related to someone from her bloodline, via the Ligorian n Pattanian dynasties. biggthumpup.gif

I think you should get to know Chula better rather than either Genghiz or Kublai. Cos Chula actually ruled over our lands once, even as a conqueror/occupier, whereas Genghiz n Kublai didnít hv anything to do with us. icon_neutral.gif

You forgot Kajol n Kareena Kapoor, the prettiest n the sexiest. biggthumpup.gif beerchug.gif

sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(dreamhunter @ Aug 20 2008, 04:22 PM) [snapback]3881933[/snapback]
Now I'm convinced. We WERE the same people, we Mons n Langkasukan Malays. The same MALA a.k.a. MON a.k.a. MOUNTAIN people.

Yay! Righty ho! Hip hip, hurray! I'm off to Mon state in Myanmar soon now then. To visit n get to re-know my long-lost ancient relatives. biggthumpup.gif beerchug.gif

But I heard the Mons were quite advanced. Just imagine, Asoka sent them a group of Theravada monks from Magadha to preach to them in around 280 - 270 BC. So they must've been quite culturally developed in order to hv the ability to receive such religious education.

Hv a look at these pics of some young Mon boys n girls.





They've got typical Malay-looking face shapes n Malay-style eyes. Don't you think they look just like some ordinary Malay kids from our average Malay kampung?


Yes, Mr.Dream, they are quite advanced and are actually civilized people, they had build Pagodas and Chandis in Myanmar before the Burmese invasion. Burmese too had adopt Mon architecture and some points of culture including the script, Burmese script today is actually Mon script.

The Mon sages and monks were killed and chased out from their sanctuary when the Burmese enter Myanmar, the places were replaced by Burmese monks. Mons in Myanmar were suppressed to assimilize with Burmese and there is a slogan which says that Mon are Burmese and Burmese are Mon because Mon had been absorbed into Burmese society. Truly what you had said, Mon people are lemah lembut and bersopan santun like the Malays, they easily adapting with the environment around them and was suppressed by foreign invaders.

Mon can't speak in Mon anymore but only Burmese in Myanmar. Luckily some of them are still exist in Thailand, but they too like other Thais are ashame to speak in their language. Chakri dynasty of Thailand today are said as a Mon dynasty in the pretext of T'ai. I just notice about this when peeping around in Thai chat, they too admit it.

Yea, they look like Malay kids, exactly and the boys are wearing somekind of Tanjak, but in basic form.

So, that means we in Malaysia are using the correct term and the ancient term referring ourselves. Other regional people down the thousand islands are using new terms for themselves after their ancestors had sailed from SEA mainland or after they had migrated in the ice age.

It is not about our Malay World craziness, it is based from the past history. Basically Kedahans and Patanese are categorized under Proto-Malay group along with the Orang Aslis from Jakun and Senoi tribes. Who said that Proto-Malays are uncivilized and just living in the jungle like what had been underestimated by certain people. There are civilized Proto-Malays, this had answered why there are only Negrito Aslians in Kedah and Kelantan, Kedah Aslians can only be seen in Baling district and Changlun area near Bukit Kayu Hitam while Proto-Malays are actually the Kedahan Malays who live in the Kedah Plateau involving in agricultural activities.

While southern people are categorized as Deutro Malay. Malay or Mon/Mol simply means Hill-Tribe. Ancient India's literature refers those people as Nagas.

Haha, who knows maybe our kings today are related to Madhuri Dixit or Manisha Koirala through their past linkage embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif


sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(Esfandiari @ Aug 19 2008, 08:36 PM) [snapback]3879608[/snapback]
The defanging of the Raja Bersiong (Fanged King) was thought to have taken place in Baling district of Kedah. It was here that legends say that the mythical Fanged King (Raja Bersiong) defanged himself.....and then tossed ('baling' in Malay) his cursed 'siong' (fangs)!! Till this day the district has place names like 'Baling' (toss) and 'Siong' (fangs). If you drive towards Siong, you'll be greeted by a gerbang (arch) made of two big model fangs (siong) arching on both sides of the road leading to Siong..

Come visit Baling! Here's a picture of picturesque downtown Baling town.

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/3218079-th...ling-Baling.jpg


Oh Yeah, Go Baling Go...... I had been in Baling several times completing my Driving Lessons last time, people there are helpful and they talk humbly to the others. It is easy in there and the people are extraordinarily friendly, religious, and speaking in a special dialect of their own beside Bahasa Kedah Jati. The environment there too are not so hectic and it could be windy because it is near Bukit Hijau. Things are cheap, and I almost fainted eating fresh foods bought from Nat Sabtu, embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif I won't hesitate visiting Baling again and invest my limited money in there biggthumpup.gif

Visit Kedah, there is many things uncovered yet in Kedah, waiting for you to discover them:

http://www.visitkedah.com.my/about.html

People said that Raja Bersiong had ran to Jembal in Kelantan after being chased by his people and establishing a tribal kingdom there. I had also had read about Muslim tribal kingdoms in in Kedah, one of them is in Kuala Nerang where the king is using Siamese as his court language. I had read it somewhere in Berita Minggu or maybe Mingguan last time, but I regret that I didn't keep those articles as I do not feel any necessity in keeping those historical documents at that time. It is not only the job of historians to keep the records but also civilians like us. It will help us to counter and being vulnerable from tukang putar belit sejarah in this multi-racial country.
sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Aug 19 2008, 06:11 PM) [snapback]3879478[/snapback]
Raja Bersiong (1968)



Raja Bersiong is a 1968 Malaysian horror film in Malay directed by Jamil Sulong and based on a story by former Malaysian Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman. Despite costing RM 750,000 to produce, ten times the cost of the average Malaysian film, it was a flop at the box-office.

The story is loosely based on historical myth Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa, that told about pre-Islamic Kedah that once was once ruled by Raja Ong Maha Perita Deria. The story is very popular that it have been made into movie in 1963 and 1968. It also being presented as teater by Petronas Performing Arts Groupís.
Synopsis
A King and his troops came across a town called Kampung Gading. There they met a strong but mute and deaf man named Badang, who is the personal servant of a young woman named Chomel. The King pretended to be a normal guard as part of a plan to lure Badang to become his personal protector and Chomel to become his wife. His plan was successful, and he married Chomel.

Some time later, the king's appetite changed. At dinner one night, he commends the cook for the delicious dish and asked what the main ingredient was. The cook was forced revealed that the unusual taste was due to the cook's own blood, which had fallen into the dish when he hand was bleeding. The king found love for the taste of human blood, and over time he grew fangs and began attacking his own people to feast on them.
Sources : http://hamlau.proboards44.com


A very nice input HangPC, please put more infos on Raja Bersiong if you had articles about him. Also we would be more than grateful if you had infos about Kedah's tribal kingdoms. Keep up this good work.
greenwitch
I'm a new member to the blog and sorry to intrude into a discussion like this. But the history of Kedah thread is fascinating! Never knew that Merong Mahawangsa is actually Phra Ong Mahawangsa! But my main interest is actually legends. Putri Buluh Betung is a legendary fairy princess who was found in a bamboo grove or stump (just like the Japanese legend Kaguyahime). The Buluh Betong legend is thought to originate from Acheh - Hikayat Raja Raja Pasai or something like that. Putri Buluh Betong /the bamboo princess is supposed to have white blood.

There is another legend originating from Kedah called Putri Lindungan Bulan who was also supposed to have white blood. The raja of Acheh wanted to marry her but her father refused hand her over. The princess, unfortunately died when her father hid her in a cave to provent her from being taken by an invading army from Acheh. Does anyone have further details about this legend?

QUOTE(Esfandiari @ May 2 2008, 12:10 PM) [snapback]3675129[/snapback]
Yeah...I thought that song is good too! Yeah, it does sound like a gurindam. Why don't we ask Bhaskara about it, he's an avid fan of culture, like tarians and stuffs like that!!

Persian blood in me!! I don't know!! But I won't be surprised if I do have that blood in me...my blood as it is now is already diverse, spanning two states in Malaysia, and four countries, you won't believe it if I tell you more about my blood!! But it's still red like anybody's blood! Hahahah!

But the theory about Persian and Gemeron/Cimmerians/Kimmeroi in Kedah as you put forth could be true! The name of the first Kedah ruler who converted to Islam, Phra Ong Merong Mahawangsa, could relate to Cimmerians/Gemeron. The part 'Merong' of the name seems to rhyme with 'Gemeron' and eventually 'Cimmerian'!! Hahaha! I don't know, I think you are more knowledgeable than me on this matter.

But old folks in Kedah say that the Kedah royal lineage also originated from Alexander the Great (Iskandar Zulkarnain) who was Macedonian and not Persian! I was told that the Kedah Annals (Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa) also listed the names of Socrates and Macedonia but these names are respectively Malayanized to 'Artalas" and 'Makadunya'!! Is it true? Sounds far-fetched to me though! You probably know more about this!!

Some legends about Kedah royal family sound even more bizarre! Like the one that says the Kedah royal line started from buluh betung!! I've heard so much about buluh betung but I really don't know what it actually is except that it is a kind of mythical plant, sort of having magic power. But it certainly sounds like cerita dongeng to me to say that somebody appeared out of a plant!! Perhaps, the royal family once deliberately created these legends to produce this effect of awsomess, magical , superhuman or mythical powers of the royal family among the rakyat in order to get complete and unquestioned loyalty from the rakyat.

About Indonesia Chat......yes, I've not ventured there yet. Don't feel like going there at the moment, perhaps in the future I may. Most of the themes there are specifically Indonesian, not much of any interest to me. Besides, some Indonesian forumers are already here participating in our Malaysia Chat, so there's really no need for me budge in there!!

sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(greenwitch @ Aug 26 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]3893464[/snapback]
I'm a new member to the blog and sorry to intrude into a discussion like this. But the history of Kedah thread is fascinating! Never knew that Merong Mahawangsa is actually Phra Ong Mahawangsa! But my main interest is actually legends. Putri Buluh Betung is a legendary fairy princess who was found in a bamboo grove or stump (just like the Japanese legend Kaguyahime). The Buluh Betong legend is thought to originate from Acheh - Hikayat Raja Raja Pasai or something like that. Putri Buluh Betong /the bamboo princess is supposed to have white blood.

There is another legend originating from Kedah called Putri Lindungan Bulan who was also supposed to have white blood. The raja of Acheh wanted to marry her but her father refused hand her over. The princess, unfortunately died when her father hid her in a cave to provent her from being taken by an invading army from Acheh. Does anyone have further details about this legend?


Welcome, you are not intruding at all, thank you for another point of Kedah History which is about Putri Lindungan Bulan. Yes, the events about this Putri life suppose happened somewhen in 16th C.

Bahasa Kedah also had Acheh words in its vocab such as Jelan Lidah (stick out your tongue), and Pelet (language, dialect). We also have Kuih Karas which is traditionally from Acheh laugh.gif
dreamhunter
QUOTE(greenwitch @ Aug 26 2008, 08:55 AM) [snapback]3893464[/snapback]
I'm a new member to the blog and sorry to intrude into a discussion like this. But the history of Kedah thread is fascinating! Never knew that Merong Mahawangsa is actually Phra Ong Mahawangsa! But my main interest is actually legends. Putri Buluh Betung is a legendary fairy princess who was found in a bamboo grove or stump (just like the Japanese legend Kaguyahime). The Buluh Betong legend is thought to originate from Acheh - Hikayat Raja Raja Pasai or something like that. Putri Buluh Betong /the bamboo princess is supposed to have white blood.

There is another legend originating from Kedah called Putri Lindungan Bulan who was also supposed to have white blood. The raja of Acheh wanted to marry her but her father refused hand her over. The princess, unfortunately died when her father hid her in a cave to provent her from being taken by an invading army from Acheh. Does anyone have further details about this legend?

Hi Greenwitch.

Welcome to the Kedah Kingdom. Pls keep contributing with whatever you've got. By all means.

For Buluh Betung lovers, there's an old late 60s Malay movie called "Anak Buluh Betung". It's about a childless king whose servants one day found a baby boy in a stump of buluh butung in the jungle. They brought the baby back to the king who happily accepted it as his rezeki, n raised him up as his own son.

One day, when he'd grown up, he seized the throne n sent the king n his retinue out into exile. Eventually, the king managed to fight back n regain his throne.

The king was played by Ahmad Mahmud, the Buluh Betung prince by S. Roseley. The late Aziz Jaafar/Saadiah pairing also figured.

I guess you can still get the CD in some shops.
dreamhunter
Wathudaywa - ca 4500 BC.
Wathudaywa and his 9 brothers after conquering the whole of India lastly conquered Dwarawady, the present Thandwe area. For his greatness, the people of India worshipped him as a god, Krishna. We, Rakhaings, however, revere Wathudaywa, as one of our great kings. On the death of Wathudaywa and his 9 brothers at Dwarawady through very unfortunate circumstances, the sister of Wathudaywa, Asiana Daywee and Bramana Poona migrated to Waythali and Bramana Poona was made King by the people of Waythali (Vesali) for his great learning. 6 Kings descended from Bramana Raza and 16 Kings of the Tharaban Dynasty ruled over the country with Waythali as the Capital. Waythali came to an end when the last King Brama Theida met his death at the hand of Cannibals led by Nga Sat Dan.

Marayu - 3341 to 3279 BC.
Marayu the son of Arzuna the ascetic and Einda Maru became king in B.C. 3341 after defeating and exterminating the cannibals. Marayu founded the Capital of Danyawaddy on becoming King. Danyawaddy is a town and not a province as thought by many today. Arzuna was King of Kapilawat before he took the life of wandering Ascetic. Indian historians traced his wanderings as far as Manipore, from genealogical tree. From Gautama Buddha we learn that the class in which Gautama Buddha was born is related to the clan that Arzuna belonged to.

Kan Raza Gree - 1523 to 1486 BC.
54 successors of Marayu reigned over the country till we come to the reign of Kan Raza Gree. On the death of the refugee from India, Abei Raza at Tagoung the two sons Kan Raza Gree, the elder, and Kan Raza Nge, the younger, had differences about succession. Kan Raza Nge succeeded his father''s place and hence Kan Raza Gree accompanied by his followers migrated southward. He followed the course of the Irrawaddy, branched out towards the Chindwin and finally arrived at Kyaukpandaung over land. Min Nge Pyaw Hla had been murdered by his Ministers at Danyawaddy and succeeded by 3 Ministers, one acting for eight months, one acting for 2 months and the 3rd acting for 6 months. When the third was dethroned Kan Raza Gree became King. He took as Queen Saw Pyinya Naree of Rakhaing Royality and governed from Kyauk-pan-daung for 24 years, and finally shifted to the old capital, Danyawaddy. This is a case of claim to the throne through the female line, Saw Pyinya Naree.

extracted from an article on Arakan history: http://www.rakhapura.com/article-collections/the-rakhine-kingdom.asp

* * * * * * *
1. With all due respect, it seems that the Rakhaing (Arakan) people believe that a couple of legendary/mythical figures now considered divine by Hindus, such as Wathudaywa (Krishna) n Arzuna (Arjuna) were actually Rakhaing kings in v ancient times.

With all due respect again, some Biblical historians reckon that 2 grandsons or great grandsons of Qush (Cush), named Ra'ama n Seba journeyed to the Hind. Eventually, after many thousand years, they became immortalised into Hindu legend. Their Hindu names? I'll give ya 3 guesses.

2. Do you think that King Marayu, son of King Arzuna, could be an ancestor of ours? I'll just leave ya with that thought to mull over. biggthumpup.gif

to recap: there was a western Biblical historian who reckons that Marayu could be Qush (Cush), one of the 5 sons of Haam (Ham), who was one of the 3 sons of Nuh (Noah).

If we put 2 n 2 together, then we have King Arzuna = Haam. Just a random thought. What do you think?
malaccan
This thread is most insightful. There is a lot of emphasis on the sultanate of Malacca as being the turning point of Islamisation of Malays, yet too little emphasis is given to the even older Kedahan sultanate and its pre-Islamic roots to the north.

QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Aug 19 2008, 11:11 AM) [snapback]3879478[/snapback]
Raja Bersiong (1968)





Allahyarham Ahmad Mahmud and Sarimah

I can't help notice the similarities between the headgear with that of our mainland southeast Asians. Tunku Abdul Rahman wrote the script for the movie and he was one of its advisor. With his background, one can't help but think that he's trying to convey a sense of kinship with our northern neighbours. There are deep ties there that's been masked by time and (differences of) religion.
dreamhunter
The cradle of Semenanjung civilisation was definitely in the north n east. In the Langkasukan Federation which covered Kedah, Ligor, PanPan/PanThani (Pattani), ChiTu/ChiLanTan (Kelantan), Tilanggana (Terengganu) n Pahang. Also not forgetting Gangga Negara. We're talking 100 AD or even much earlier here.

There was only 1 ancient kingdom, i.e. Gelanggi, in the southern region. Although there may hv also been ancient settlements in Kelang, Muar etc. regions but no proper kingdoms. Before Melaka came up in 1511.

The people maybe did or maybe did not call themselves Melayu to begin with. But they were v likely the same Mala/Mon (meaning "mountain") people as the people then living in ancient Mon kingdoms in Thailand n Burma. BTW, "Mon" could be just the way "Mal/Mala" was pronounced by speakers of T'ai n T'ai-related languages. The way they pronounce "Nagar/Nagara" as "Nakhon".

Probably they gradually started speaking the language called Malayu after the Srivijayans absorbed them into their growing empire. In any case, the coastal "Malayu" people of Sumatra also likely originally came from Semenanjung. They then came back to us, their brothers n cousins, bringing back with them a new language n culture which they introduced to us.

BTW, T'ai peoples were actually relative latecomers to this region, only having their first kingdom Sukodaya/Sukothai far up in the north ca 1270 AD. Hey, our peoples lived in those lands for thousands of years before the Khmer peoples came n pushed us out. N then the T'ai peoples came n pushed the Khmer peoples out.

I agree. We hv a bit of a problem with some misguided bigots who seem to prefer to chuck all pre-Islamic history n heritage into the bin. I think that's such a crying shame.

sonofgunongjerai
^^^^

So Funan possibly is a Mon Kingdom rather than a Khmer kingdom? What do you think? And I had read in a Lao thread that Mon people had inhabited areas such as Southwest of Thailand territory today, practically it covers Satun, Kedah, Perlis, Songkhla, and Thalang today near Myanmar border in south.

So, it could be that people in ancient Malayan Peninsula is actually are Mons and also Malays. It wonders us that Malays in Indonesia are concentrated in South Sumatera without we realize where is exactly their originating places. They also were substracted into various sub-groups such as Riau, Rawa (Swamp), Minang, Mandahiling etc in Sumatera. Also many natives such as Orang Talang Mamak (Orang Laut) of Sumatera and Orang Mah Meri (Orang Laut), Orang Jakon and Orang Sakai (Orang Darat) in Malaysia too speaking the same Proto-Language. Kedahans too are classified as Proto-Malay instead of Deutro-Malays.

The question, why is that Malayan Peninsula being known as Tanah Melayu while Sumatera not if Sumatera is the original place of Malays? Sumatera had two meanings which is from Sanskrit Samudera means Sea and other is Semut-Dera means Big Ant.

In ancient time, Sumatera was known as Pulau Serindit rather than Sumatera. I do not know what was that Serindit means, I guess it is a bird name. Do you have the etymology of tis word?
dreamhunter
Well I'm now tempted to believe it first started as a Mala/Mon kingdom, with King Hun Tien (Kaundinya I) the founder actually a Semenanjung prince of mixed Mala/Mon-Kamboja ancestry. So was Jayavarman Kaundinya (Kaundinya II/Prah Thong) in 376 AD.

But the citizenry was mixed Khmer n Mala/Mon, perhaps with Khmer forming the majority, thereby facilitating a Khmer takeover by Bhavavarman, new king of Khmer Chenla, of his grandfather Rudravarman's kingdom, the Mala/Mon kingdom of Funan, ca 536 AD.

Well now I believe that we were just one single Mala/Mon people at that time, i.e. the separation maybe occurred much later. It would explain a lot of things, like a "Malay" kingdom in Funan n "Malay" peoples in ancient Thailand. Only maybe called Mala in the Semenanjung n Mon further up north in the Mon regions. BTW, until today, some Khmer guys seem to still call us as Mala rather than Malay.

The "Tanah Melayu" question maybe answered by the hypothesis that it only got called "Tanah Melayu" some time after absorption by Palembang Srivijaya maybe around 700 AD or later. Like, we started speaking Malayu, then started calling ourselves Malayu/Melayu, then called the Semenanjung as Tanah Melayu. As for Sumatra, they had the Malayu kingdom in Jambi which rose around 500 AD.

Even then, my belief is still that the Jambian Malayu kingdom was in fact founded by Mala/Mon migrants to Sumatra, who actually came originally from our Semenanjung, probably Langkasuka. They then first called the river in Jambi around which they settled Sungai Malayu, n then later their kingdom as Malayu kingdom, commemorating the name "Mala".

The Srivijayans then came to Langkasuka n gave the name "Malayu" back to us. A bit like a merry go round now then. beerchug.gif

Are you sure about Pulau Serindit? What I read was that "Serendib" was the ancient Arabic name for Sri Lanka. I think it came from Suvarnadvipa (Island of Gold), an ancient name which has been contested by both Sri Lanka n Sumatra. Maybe Serindit is the Malayifed version of Serendib, which in turn was the Arabised version of Suvarnadvipa.

Interesting how people keep changing place names to suit their tongue n their culture. biggthumpup.gif

About the Semut Dera story, I'd be tempted to say it's another Malay dongeng crafted to cover up true history while aggrandising the Malay people. Ha ha ha. Malays will always be Malays. laugh.gif

Just like the "Helang on Batu Kawi" theory for Langkawi n the "Taring Anu" theory for Terengganu. Amazing thing is, there is no "Helang on Batu Kasuka" theory for Langkasuka. embarassedlaugh.gif
dreamhunter
Now Son, I just remembered.

There's a site on Nakhon Si Thammarat, but it's in Thai. Maybe you would like to hv a look at it n see what it says:
http://www.nakhonsithammarat.go.th/his.php

I also browsed thru a site under: http://sejarahnagarakedah.blogspot.com/200...am-sejarah.html

Its titled "EMPAYAR ISLAM BENUA SIAM KEDAH" where someone is promoting fantastic claims regarding Ayutthaya having once been a Muslim kingdom with Muslim kings. I think the writer is a bit nutty, but you might wanna hv a look at what he's saying anyway.
kelantanese
most of online writer n blogger just write what they think, not based on history & research. kaki berangan semua.
PerisaiLangkasuka
N then they believe it themselves. Sounds familiar. Guess there's a storyteller in each one of us. Ha ha ha.

Well we're all a bit guilty of that to a certain extent or other. Some time or other. Guess it's just a matter of degree. Well as long as it makes us happy. beerchug.gif
sonofgunongjerai
Sejarah Nagara Kedah is obviously made up by the bloggers, it is more to suit up a certain people interests but is it a must to made up stories which obviously look childish.

I am a very proud Kedahan yet I do not believe the blog but it could just be used as documentation and reference. How come the King of Ayuttaya is Muslim, I never come accross Muslim T'ai King. But Muslim Khmer King yes, I read it from a recorded source in the university, it is also admitted by Khmers themselves. About the T'ai royalties who embrace Islam and ran to Pulau Pinang here in British empire territory around 18th C, there is possibilities that it is true.

About the Thai website maybe I can help you translating it into Malay or perhaps English (easy to translate into Malay actually) for respective viewers to read but right now I am a bit busy, my computer is cracked down by my friend's containing virus pen-drive. I nearly tore his head because I need my computer for my assignments too.
Esfandiari
I'm going back to the Kedah Kingdom next few days. Anybody wanna tag along? Hahaha!!
dreamhunter
Youre going back for Hari Raya already? Thats really quick, dude.

Well we'll let ya enjoy your driving solitude. laugh.gif

But perhaps you can get in touch with the Kedah Muzeum or State History Department while lazing around waiting for buka puasa. Like try to get some good websites on Kedah kingdom history from them. Just a proposal. biggthumpup.gif
sonofgunongjerai
Sejarah Negara Sri Dharmaraja

Negara Sri Dharmaraja merupakan negara purba yang penting terutamanya dari segi ekonomi, politik dan masyarakat. Negara ini turut memberi sumbangan dari segi keagamaan. Negara ini dikenali dunia luar tidak kurang daripada tahun Saka ke-800. Menurut satu dokumen ia sudah wujud sejak abad ke-7 tahun Saka lagi.

Nama-nama lain bagi Negara Sri Dharmaraja

Menurut sumber sejarah kuno, bolehlah dikatakan Negara Sri Dharmaraja mempunyai nama lama yang boleh jadi berasal dari dialek bahasa lama di kawasan itu. Ia disebut dengan sebutan yang berbeza-beza mengikut abad yang berbeza seperti Tom + Pling + Gom atau Taam + Pling + Gam atau Gamli atau Tamli atau Kah Mah Ling atau Tah Mah Ling yang sebenarnya berasal dari bahasa Bali-Sanskrit yang digunakan dalam kitab suci agama Maha Nidesa yang tertulis di dalamnya nasib yang baik dalam abad ke-7 sehingga abad ke-8 menurut kalender Saka. Kitab ini merupakan salah satu sumber kesusasteraan India kuno yang menceritakan tentang kisah-kisah perjalanan pedagang yang maha berani mencari keuntungan dan kekayaan di tanah asing. Bahagian jauh dari India masuk ke bariwen ini di benua Asia Tenggara beroleh pengenalan bandar pelabuhan asing. Di bariwen (bahagian kerajaan) inilah mereka menyimpan sejumlah besar barang dagangan, terkenallah negara itu sepanjang zaman itu. Dalam usaha mencari harta kekayaan, akan timbul banyak kapal belayar di lautan pergi melihat (atau mengawasi). Sebelum itu para penumpang kapal pergi dapatkan beberapa orang saudara tua untuk mengucapkan selamat tinggal di muka Bomran Bar selepas itu mereka pergi ke Wesung ke Werabath, pergi ke Jawa pergi ke Kah Mah Ling (Tambraling) pergi Istana atau Enwattana (Welupantana) pergi ke Swarnagutti, pergi ke Swarnabhumi, pergi ke Tampanpanni, pergi ke Supparah, pergi ke Paruga (Parugaksha), pergi ke Suratta pergi Yona, pergi ke Pina (Brahma Yona), pergi ke Anlasanta (Winga), pergi ke Munbot, pergi ke Maru kekeringan, pergi ke Channu. The rest are the name of places......

Profesor George Coedes seorang cendekiawan Perancis membuat kesimpulan bahawa nama bandar pelabuhan itu adalah Kahmahling atau Tahmahling seperti yang diterangkan pada pengenalan ini. Nama-nama ini terdapat dalam rekod-rekod lama dan babad-babad kuno China. Dalam babad kuno China Negara Sri Dharmaraja dikenali sebagai Tang Ma Ling manakala dalam batu bersurat ia dipanggil sebagai Tamponling (Tambralingga) juga Negara Sri Dharmaraja.

These are only the intro part of the website that I tried to translate. Sori for silly and nonsense tranlsation because I'm not familiar with academic terms, the language used in the web is highly academic and merapu-rapu. It would be more havoc if I translate it into English icon_neutral.gif To be continued...
sonofgunongjerai
Selain itu, ada disebut dalam kitab Milinta mengenai permasalahan yang seorang wira Phrah Pitak Chula Phai beroleh menulis nasib untung dalam bahasa Bali-Sanskrit yang seseorang ada pandangan bahawa kitab ini ditulis dalam tahun ke-7 dan ke-8 kalendar Saka. Namun sesetengah orang berpendapat bahawa ia boleh juga jadi ditulis pada kurun ke-5 kalender Saka. Ia menyebut tentang jajahan Negara Sri Dharmaraja melalui satu kenyataan iaitu Phrah Mahanaga Sena berjalan ke mari sebagai satu perumpamaan dari persembahan Phrah Chao Milinta (Raja Milinta atau Raja Menandowr B.E 392-413).

Sama seperti pemilik kapal lain, ia mempunyai harta banyak bawa kapal masuk dalam kota pelabuhan sebab mampu bayar cukai. Cukai dibayar habis di pelabuhan langsai lah sudah. Pun boleh mengemudi kapal ke laut lepas dan boleh juga pergi ke Kerajaan China. Pendek kata bebas ke mana sahaja.

Profesor Sylvain Levy, Cendekiawan Perancis berpendapat bahawa perkataan Tamali ada terdapat dalam kitab Mahaniddesha yang merupakan satu-satunya kitab yang menyebut tentang Tambralingga. Bagi Profesor Senarat Pranavitana pula, beliau berpendapat Tambralingga itu adalah Tamali + Gam, ia adalah perkataan yang berasal dari bahasa Sanskrit dan ada dalam perbendaharaan bahasa Singhala iaitu Tamaligamu.
sonofgunongjerai
Tan-Ma-Ling

Dalam rekod-rekod yang ditulis oleh pengembara China seperti rekod Chao Jukua dan Wang Ta Yuan seperti yang tertulis dalam buku Tao-Yi-Chi-Lioh pada tahun Buddha 1769. Rekod ini juga mengesahkan nama Tamponling (Tambralingam) digunakan oleh generasi sebelum ini. Nama ini juga ada tersimpan dalam rekod yang dikenali sebagai Sung Chih di China, menyebut bahawa bandar Tambralingam menghantar duta ke China untuk hubungan muhibah dalam tahun Buddha 1544, China memanggil negara yang menghantar utusan itu sebagai Tan-Mei-Liao. Menurut Profesor Paul Wheatly dari Britain serta beberapa Sarjana bahasa Cina di Perancis, karakter China yang merujuk Tan-Mei-Liao itu patut disebut sebagai Tan-Mi-Liu.

Madamalingam

Perkataan ini berasal dari bahasa Tamil dipahat pada batu bersurat Prah Chao Ra Jina Trayohlahk I (Raja Trailok I) yang memerintah di India Selatan yang selak kemakmurannya tersimpan di bandar Tanjavur. Sekitar tahun Buddha 1573-1574, baginda pernah menghantar bala tentera yang besar untuk menakluki sebuah bandar/negara asing. Negara itu terletak di Semenanjung Tanah Melayu. Bala tentera baginda memperolehi kejayaan dan masuklah nama bandar itu dalam senarai nama bandar pelabuhan asing yang dipukul. Nama bandar/negara ini kemudian terpahat pada selak batu bersurat tetapi dengan sebutan yang sedikit berbeza iaitu Madamalingam.
sonofgunongjerai
Tambralinga

Perkataan ini berasal dari bahasa Sanskrit, nama ini jugalah yang muncul dalam Sila Caruk (batu bersurat) utama yang ke-24 ditemui di Wat Huo Wiang atau Wat Kepala Tembok Bandar (sekarang dipanggil sebagai Wat Wiang sahaja). Wat ini berada di Tambon Talat (bahagian pasar) Ampho Chaiyya Changwat (wilayah) Suratthani yang diterjemah dengan huruf India lama bahasa Sanskrit.

De Lajonauiere Virasaivas berkata bahawa batu bersurat ini diselak di pintu bandar purba dan berketinggian 1.33 M tak termasuk bahagian yang tertanam di bawah bendul pintu serta lebarnya batu ini 45 cm berketebalan 13 cm. Batu bersurat ini mengandungi pesan sebanyak 16 ban tersimpan di Muzium Negara Vasukri di Bangkok.
sonofgunongjerai
คำอ่าน

๑. สฺวสฺติ ศฺรีมตฺศฺรีฆนสาสนาคฺรสุภทํ ยสฺ ตามฺพฺรลิงฺ

๒. เคศฺวระ ส - - นิว ปตฺมวํสชนตำ วํศปฺรทีโปตฺภวะ สํรู

๓. เปน หิ จนฺทฺรภานุมทนะ ศฺรีธรฺมฺมราชา ส ยะ ธรฺมฺมสาโสกสมานนี

๔. ตินิปุนะ ปญฺจาณฺฑวํสาธิปะสฺวสฺติ ศฺรี กมลกุลสมุตฺภฤ (ตฺ) ตามฺ

๕. พฺรลิงฺเคศฺวรภุชพลภิมเสนาขฺยายนสฺ สกลมนุสฺยปุณฺยา

๖. นุภาเวน พภุว จนฺทฺรสูรฺยฺยานุภาวมิห ลโกปฺรสิทฺธิกีรฺตฺติ

๗. ธรจนฺทฺรภานุ-ติ ศฺรีธรฺมฺมราชา กลิยุคพรฺษาณิ ทฺวตริงศาธิกสฺ ตฺรีณิ

๘. สตาธิกจตฺวารสหสฺรานฺยติกฺรานฺเต เศลาเลขมิว ภกฺตฺยามฺฤตวรทมฺ - - -

ต่อนั้นไปอีก ๗ หรือ ๘ บรรทัด อ่านไม่ใคร่ออก สังเกตเห็นได้แต่เพียง

๙. - - - - นฺยาทิ ทฺรพฺยานิ - - - - - - มาตฺฤปิตฺฤ

๑๐ - - - - - - - - - - สปริโภคฺยา - - - - - - - -

๑๑.-๑๒ - - - - - โพธิวฺฤกฺษ
sonofgunongjerai
Bacaannya

1. Svasti Sri, Matrikansasanaakrasupyosa Tambralinga.
2. Keshvarah S---niva bat mvas jantamvasypratibot pavah sru.
3. Penahi Chandrabhaanumtanah Sri Dharmaraja sayah Dharmsoksmaanni.
4. Tinipunah panchaan tavsadhipah svasti sri kamlakulasmudparittham.
5. Bralingesyvarpujapalabhimsenakhayaaynasa saklamnusayapunya.
6. Nubhaavenapabhuva Chandrasuryayaanubhavmihalagoprasitdhigiratti.
7. Dhar Chandrabhanu di Sri Dharmaraja Kaliyugpar Shaanitvatringsyadiksatrinni.
8. Sadaadhikajatvaar sahasraanyadikaraandesylau lekhmivbhaktyaam ratvarttam.

Seterusnya bahagian lain yang tidak dapat dibaca kerana tulisan sudah tidak jelas.

9. -----nayaaditrapyaani-----maatrpitpha.
10. -----sapribhogya--------.
11-12. ---------pothivargash-------.
sonofgunongjerai
Maksudnya:

Svasti,

Raja pelindung bandar Tambralingga yang mendukung Phraparitti Prahyokshan yang meilindungi ajaran Buddha. Bagindalah yang keturunannya datang dari wangsa suci, Padmawangsa. Rupanya bagus bagaikan hari Rabu tahun Reka (Ayam), wajahnya umpama bulan purnama memerintah sambil memegang sastera juga memayungi dharma serta menanggung bebanan menjadi kepala kepada kerabat diraja. Bagindalah yang memegang gelaran Sri Dharmaraja.

Svasti Sri,

Raja pelindung bandar Tambralinga menjadi empu upathamba trakula Padmawangsa yang di tangan sucinya ada ratdhi ada amnath (kekuasaan)....juga mempunyai kekuatan dari pahala dan kebaikan yang menyebabkan baginda diikuti manusia keseluruhannya. Daya kekuatan pemerintahan baginda seperti matahari, bulan, dan mempunyai kemahsyuran, maka tersebarlah kisah kemahsyuran baginda tuanku Chandrabhanu Dharmaraja abad Kaliyuga (kegelapan, hampir kiamat) 1332 tahun Buddha.

To be continued
sonofgunongjerai
Para sarjana yang mengkaji batu bersurat ini menterjemahkan perkataan Tambralingga sebagai "Lingga Tembaga". Lingga di sini bermaksud Lingga Shiva, lambang ini disembah dan dipuja oleh pengikut Dewa Siva yang berada di kawasan Negara Sri Dharmaraja. Naai Dhamm Tat Panit (Dharm Das Paniksh) diterjemah sebagai telur (maksudnya mengikut bahasa setempat di selatan Thai). Somdet Phra Chao Boromwong Ter Khrom Phaya Damrong Rajanubhap pula menyokong pendapat bahawa Negara Sri Dharmaraja dipanggil sebagai Tamralingga, manakala Somdet Chao Fa Nitran berpendapat bahawa Negara Sri Dharmaraja dipanggil sebagai Tamponling atau Nimit Tongdeng (Nimit? tembaga). Hal ini disebabkan logan itu dilaporkan banyak dijumpai di Negara Sri Dharmaraja. Dalam buku Phrah Malai Kamluang, Negeri Langka memanggil Negara Sri Dharmaraja sebagai "Tambapnayadveep" yang bermaksud Pulau atau Semenanjung yang dipenuhi kepingan tembaga. Somdet Phra Chao Boromwong Ter Khrom Phaya Damrong Rajanubhap juga berpandangan bahawa penduduk di Tambralingga berkulit hitam kemerah-merahan atau hitam manis merujuk kepada kulit kebanyakan penduduk selatan Thai. Baginda juga membuat kesimpulan sendiri bahawa pengenalan diri bagi penduduk negara tersebut mungkin juga berkaitan dengan warna kulit mereka yang nampak seperti tembaga (hitam kemerah-merahan). Profesor Stanley J. O'Connor berpendapat bahawa nama Tamponling ini jelas menunjukkan pengaruh ajaran Brahmanism melalui penemuan artifek-artifek pemujaan serta tapak-tapak arkeologi yang menjadi pusat penyembahan mazhab Sivanigaya (Virasaivas). Penyembahan Siva ini juga popular di India Selatan dan ia turut disokong oleh kerajaan Negara Sri Dharmaraja.
sonofgunongjerai
Tamalingomu atau Tamalinggam

Perkataan ini merupakan sebutan dari bahasa Singhala muncul dalam kitab aksara Singahala ditulis sebagai Elu-Attanagalu Vamsa. Kitab ini ditulis pada tahun Buddha 2469 (1969 M) dalam bahasa Pali sebanyak 76 ms merupakan kumpulan kisah-kisah yang disampaikan secara lisan sebelum dibukukan. Selain itu, rujukan kepada Negara Sri Dharmaraja banyak disebut dengan pelbagai nama dalam dokumen-dokumen purba misalnya Tamalingamu dalam kitab Pujavali, Tambalingga dalam kitab Vinaya Sannah serta dalam babad Chulavamsa. Dalam Chulavamsa, dikisahkan Raja Chandrabhanu membawa bala tentera dari Tamblingkvisaya (Tambralingga-Visaya) pergi ke Sri Lanka. Dari sinilah para sarjana berpendapat bahawa ia merupakan nama yang sama dengan yang terpahat dalam batu bersurat ke-24 yang ditemui di negara Thai, cuma sebutannya saja berbeza.

Krung Sri Dharma Ashoka

Nama ini muncul dalam batu bersurat ke-35 yang dipanggil sebagai Sila Charuk Mek Nang Muang yang ditemui di lokasi arkeologi dalam hutan belantara Mek Nang Muang dalam Tambon Bangtangai Amper Bappisay Changwat Nakon Sawaan bertarikh tahun Buddha 1710. Ia merupakan batu berwarna hijau dengan ketinggian 1.35 M. Lebarnya 37 cm. Tertulis dalamnya dengan aksara India lama sebelah-menyebelah dengan bahasa Magadha (Bihar) di bahagian muka depan. Muka belakang pula ditulis dengan bahasa Khmer-Khrom. Batu ini dibaca oleh Profesor Cham Thongkamvarn dan menterjemahkan beberapa bahagian.
sonofgunongjerai
Bahagian Pertama

Corekkan di batu bersurat berbahasa Magadhi:

1. Ashok Maharaja Dharm Tejapsi: Ashok Maharaj menyokong Dharma Dejah
2. Virosmo Sunotta Sasanam Avo: Berkuasa dan berkeberanian serta segala orang menurut perintah
3. Jadhaat Pujakhett Tataahidav: Ke mari berkatalah Tuanku Raja Sunatta, Tuan harus mempersembahkan tanah pemujaan
4. Sunatto Naam Raajaa Saasan Sanja: Prahdhatu (Imej Suci Agama Buddha) Tuanku Raja Sunatta prakashakan (mengisytiharkan) aliran air padanya
5. Petvaa------- (bahagian seterusnya ini rosak tak dapat dibaca): begitulah Prahraja Omkar (Pengisytiharan Di Raja) memberitakan kepada rakyat.
sonofgunongjerai
Penerangan melalui pembacaan dan terjemahan

1. Krung Sri Dharma Ashoka, perkataan Krung dalam bahasa Khmer-Khrom sebenarnya merupakan satu kata kerja yang diterjemahkan bermaksud meliputi, menjaga, mengawasi. Krung juga membawa maksud Rajathani (bandar Di Raja), buri (bandar) dalam bahasa buku. Dalam Varnakhadhi (kesusasteraan) juga perkataan yang digunakan untuk merujuk kepada raja Dhammashoka ialah Panya, kerana dalam batu bersurat berbahasa Magadhi itu, Raja Dhammashoka dirujuk sebagai Panya Sri Dhammashok. Kisah mengenai Raja Dhammashok ini ada disebut dalam dokumen-dokumen bersejarah bandar Phattalung yang tertulis sekitar Tahun Buddha 2272 di kala Kerajaan Ayuttaya mula meningkat takhta di bawah pemerintahan Somdet Phra Bhumindra Raja (Kun Luang Tai Sa) mengisahkan tentang Inang Darah Putih ada membuat persefahaman dengan raja Dhammashok.
sonofgunongjerai
Inang Darah Putih dan Chao Panya (Kumara yang menjadi suaminya) berjalan kelik selepas mari melihat-lihat tanah untuk dibina bandar. Berjalan marilah mereka sehingga sampai ke Khweng Bandar Negara Sri Dharmaraja dan juga membangunkanlah mereka patung-patung Buddha sebanyak-banyaknya di tempat mereka membangunkan bandar itu. Tidak mempunyai punca air ia masuk mencari saudara, tak juga memberi mari ruang. Dan di Negara Sri Dharmaraja dan di hadapan Phrahsop (mayat orang mulia) dan Chao Phranya Sri Dhammashok dan Putera Raja Sri Dhammashok bagi pihaknya menyampaikan titah kepada yang dituju berbunyi : "Yang Mulia Phra Borom Adhi Phrahya Sri Dhammashok empunya yang menjadi putera kepada Chao Phraya Sri Dhammashok yang beristana di sana". Daripada maklumat yang kita dapat dalam kenyataan di atas, cukuplah diketahui bahawa Negara Sri Dharmaraja pada kala itu sudah pun merupakan negeri yang beraja dan rajanya memakai gelaran Phrah Chao Sri Dhammashok. Ada dua orang raja yang memerintah iaitu Yang Mulia yang dipanggil sebagai Phrah Janaka (Ayahanda) dan Phrahraja Orasa (Anakanda). Walau bagaimanapun, yang tidak dapat dipastikan pula sama ada maklumat yang ada dalam rekod ini sama dengan maklumat yang ada dalam batu bersurat, para sejarawan masih terpaksa berganding bahu untuk mendapatkan kepastian.
sonofgunongjerai
2. Phrah Sri Radhatu di sini berkemungkinan adalah orang yang sama dengan Phra Borom Adhi bagi Phrah Chao Sri Dhammashok dalam Phrah Borom Gosya.

3. Gamordem Jagath Sri Dhammshok, perkataan "Gamordem" berasal dari bahasa Khmer-Khrom bermaksud "bakal pemerintah", tak syak lagi ia digunakan bagi memberi penghormatan kepada raja pemerintah tanah, guru, dan sebagainya. Perkataan "Jagath" pula berasal dari bahasa Sanskrit, sama maksudnya dengan Satwaloka atau seluruh manusia. Maka Gamordem Jagath boleh juga diterjemahkan sebagai Raja bagi segala Manusia. Gelaran "Gamordem" ini dipakai di hadapan nama orang yang dihormati dan juga boleh digunakan bagi orang yang masih kekal hidup atau yang sudah habis hidup. Tetapi kata "Jagath" seperti yang terpahat dalam batu bersurat ini hanya digunakan pada nama orang yang sudah habis hidup. Silalah rujuk dalam kamus bahasa Sanskrit jika tuan-tuan berminat untuk mengetahui dengan lebih lanjut.

1. Hamba yang hina - pegawai kerajaan dalam pentadbiran istana
2. Warna bagi setiap orang - wujudnya empat warna dalam Negara ini iaitu diketuai oleh Keshatri, Brahmana, Vaisya, dan Shudra
3. Sevikah (hamba) - Wau, Seliyang, dan Kanham
4. Li - ukuran berat yang diguna pada zaman dahulu berasal dari Kemboja
5. Raja Adhiraja di sini - Krung Sri Dhammashok atau Phrah Chao Sri Dhammashok dalam perenggan batu bersurat asal
6. Krung Sunatta - Phrah Chao Sunatta
7. Gamordem Jagath di sini merupakan nama panggilan lain bagi Phrah Chao

Shri Dhammashok dalam Phrah Borom Gosyh

11. Kurun Maha Sakarat 1089 = tahun Buddha 1310
12. Burapa Shadh (Timur Shadh), nama bertuah bagi bintang badak jantan atau bintang gajah jantan

Dalam batu bersurat ini juga ada disebut dalam satu bahagian tentang Praraja dari Krung Sri Dhammashok mempersembahkan tanah atau kalpana udish untuk seseorang yang dihormati pada ketika itu... Perkara itu tersebutlah Maharajadhiraja yang memegang gelaran Krung Sri Dhammashok mempersembahkan untuk Gamordem Jagath Sri Dhammashok...dipersembahkan kepada Maha Senapati yang bernama Bhuvanaditya Ishvar pulau yang mengalir air maka berdatanglah pengisytiharan dari Rajadhiraja.... Walaupun kita tidak dapat memastikan lokasi di mana Negara Sri Dhammashok itu berada kerana ia tidak disebut dalam batu bersurat, namun kita dapat melihat dengan jelas bahawa Negara Sri Dhammashok ini mempunyai hubungan dengan Negara Sri Dharmaraja selepas kita melihat dokumen-dokumen yang menyokong bukti kedua-duanya saling berkaitan. Seperti juga babad Negara Sri Dharmaraja, babad Phraboromthat juga merupakan salah satu dokumen purba yang terdapat di Negara Thai.
sonofgunongjerai
Selain itu juga, kita dapat menemui nama Negara Sri Dharmaraja dalam dokumen-dokumen purba yang terdapat di negara luar misalnya di Sri Lanka. Diceritakan tentang pegawai kerajaan Singhala pada ketika itu yang memasuki istana Somdet Chao Yuhua Borommakot tanpa disangka-sangka kelik dari Krung Sri Ayuttaya pada ketika kapal mereka pecah dan mereka tersadai di tebing sungai berhampiran dengan Negara Sri Dharmaraja, pegawai kerajaan itu bernama Vilpake. Dia menceritakan bahawa Negara Sri Dharmaraja amatlah menarik hati, rekod itu ditulisnya pada hari Khamis bertarikh 12hb Thanvakom (bulan Desember) tahun Buddha 2294. Dia menyebut:

"...di tengah-tengah bandar ini ada chandi dan stupa yang sama besarnya dengan chandi stupa Ruvanvali yang terdapat di bandar Polonnoruwa di Langka. Chandi Stupa itu diarahkan pembangunannya oleh Keshatri Sri Dhammashok bagi menempatkan vikraha suci Buddha di dalamnya.
sonofgunongjerai
Sri Dharmaraja

Nama ini muncul dalam batu bersurat ke-24 yang ditemui di Wat Huo Wiang. Batu bersurat ini diselak pada tahun Buddha 1773. Boleh dikatakan juga Sri Dharmaraja ini merupakan gelaran bagi orang yang memerintah negeri Tambonlingeshvar.

Lagi sekali nama ini muncul dalam batu bersurat yang pertama kepunyaan Po Khun Ramkhamhaeng yang merupakan Maharaja Krung Sukhothai yang diselak pada tahun Buddha 1834.

"...Pada masa matahari jatuh ke barat Muang Sukhothai ini ada di hutan Po Khun Ramkhamhaeng membuat persembahan untuk Mahathera Sangkarat Pratchap Pitaka Traya Luok selaku seorang cucu memberi bakti kepada seorang datuk, Mahathera dianggap sebagai guru dan semua orang bangun menuju ke Negara Sri Dharmaraja...dan...ada pun ia negara yang luas mempunyai banyak gajah menakluki kawasan timur dan dua orang Penghulu menghantar ufti Mapajaya Saka, tembok bandar Chandana mengawasi Supannabumi, Ratchaburi, Petburi, lautan dan pantai di kawasan matahari naik itu habis ditumpaskan lalu ditakluki Sri Dharmaraja....Muang Plaw Pan yang menjadi kepunyaan Jawa masih bebas pun akhirnya ditakluki juga...."

Sri Dhammanagar

Nama ini ada digunakan bagi kawasan ini sebagai nama lain bagi negara atau muang ini. Ia berasal dari nama Keshatri Sri Dharmaraja selalunya dirujuk sebagai "Phrah Chao Sri Dhammanagar" atau "Phrah Chao Sri Dhammraja".

Nama ini wujud dalam buku bahasa Bali tentang Chamatewi yang ditulis oleh Phrah Bodhi Rangsi Phrah Thera dari Chiangmai sekitar asal-usul keluarga diraja tahun Buddha ke-21. Selain itu, ada juga disebut dalam buku Mali Pakrann ditulis oleh Phrah Raton Pannya Phrah Thera dalam bahasa Bali.

Buku yang ditulis oleh Phrah Bodhi Rangsi Phrah Thera dalam masa pemerintahan Phrah Chao Sam Fang atau Phrah Chao Vijaya ke-3 bertakhta di Lanna Chiang Mai, buku itu merujuk raja negara Tambralinga sebagai Sri Dhammarat.
sonofgunongjerai
Lohkaek atau Logak

Nama ini diberikan oleh Marko Polo dalam perjalanannya kelik ke tanah air dari China tahun Buddha 1934. Ada pun ia berlepas dari pelabuhan China dengan kapal melepasi hujung semenanjung Yuan (Vietnam) memotong terus mari ke tengah semenanjung Melayu. Dia menyatakan bahawa sesampainya dia di negara dalam kawasan ini, dia diberitahu nama tempat itu adalah Logek yang boleh kita fahami dan teka sebagai "Ligor" merujuk kepada Negara Sri Dharmaraja.

Pataliputra

Nama ini wujud dalam dokumen lama Sri Lanka ditulis oleh pegawai kerajaan Singhala masuk ke situ pada zaman itu. Somdet Phra Chao Yu Hua Borommakot berkata bahawa kadang-kadang nama negara ini dirujuk sebagai Muang Lakon oleh kapal-kapal yang lalu lalang di situ dan ada kalanya dikenali juga sebagai Pataliputra.

"...pada hari Selasa 17hb Tanvakom tahun Buddha 2294 ketika dia sedang mendekati Muang Lakon yang telah menjadi satu negeri dalam empayar Siam bawa turunlah patung Buddha dan tiada orang pun yang menghadapi bahaya. Tiap orang boleh mendarat di negara yang dipanggil sebagai Muang Lakon itu. Dalam negara ini ada sebuah bandar yang besar dikenali sebagai Pataliputra yang dilindungi dengan tembok di sekelilingnya..."

Dalam kalungan pujian oleh Somdet Phra Chao Thonburi bagi Nai Suan Mahatlek pun ada menyebut Tambonling sebagai Pataliputra seperti yang muncul dalam bab puisi ini:

Pang Pataliput Chao Nakra
Cheng Prayot Deya Pin Klao
Sanong Sak o Hang Kek Yu He
Yangmai Pranotkhau Su Ngeoum Boot Maan

Sori can't translate the poem, its word is weird, what I can say from tis poem is tat it talks about the situation in Pataliputra, Sakti (magical), something related to Malay (Boot Maan).
sonofgunongjerai
Linggon

Merupakan nama bagi orang Muslim yang berada di wilayah sempadan di sebelah selatan. Wilayah yang dipanggil Patani, Jala, dan Narathiwat suatu ketika dahulu juga termasuk dalam jajahan Tamponling atau Nakon Si Thammarat. Selain daripada itu, Lenggon ini digunakan dalam loghat utara merujuk orang-orang dari negara-negara Melayu atau untuk merujuk kepada orang T'ai yang beragama Islam yang tinggal dalam bahagian kerajaan yang disebutkan ini. Tidak pernah lagi nama Tambonling digunakan memanggil Negara Sri Dharmaraja sebab ia merupakan bahasa lama. Perkataan "Negara" pun sudah tak diguna lagi sebab ada perkataan lain iaitu "Negeri" yang membawa maksud tak sampai jadi negara lagi, cuma satu bahagian kecil dalam negara sahaja namun ada sahaja orang T'ai Muslim di wilayah selatan yang bersempadan memanggil Nakon Si Thammarat sebagai Tamponling.

Makanya, Nakon Si Thammarat ini dikenali juga oleh orang Portugal, Belanda, dan negara-negara Eropah lain sebagai Linggorn. Nama ini juga mungkin digunakan untuk merujuk penduduk di Nakon Si Thammarat atau Orang Melayu atau penduduk asli di bahagian selatan yang bersempadan. orang Eropah juga biasa mendapatkan bantuan orang Melayu yang dirujuk mereka sebagai Orang Linggorn untuk menjadi penunjuk jalan. Orang Linggohn ini jugalah yang menjadi penterjemah mereka semasa berurusan dalam jual-beli antara kapal-kapal yang masuk di pelabuhan di utara Tanah Melayu atau semenanjung Siam.

Ligor

Nama ini digunakan oleh pedagang-pedagang Portugis yang masuk ke Thai untuk jual-beli semasa zaman Dinasti Ayuttaya iaitu pada pemerintahan Phra Somdet Ramadhipati ke-2 tahun Buddha 2061. Ada juga orang Eropah yang pertama kali masuk ke Siam untuk urusan perniagaan tak reti menyebut Ligor akhirnya menyebutnya sebagai Lagor merujuk kepada Tamponling atau Negara Sri Dharmaraja.

Para sarjana percaya bahawa Ligor ini mungkin terjadi akibat kesilapan dalam sebutan orang Portugis apabila mereka menyebut "Negara". Hal ini kerana orang Portugis didapati menghadapi kesukaran menyebut huruf "N" maka akhirnya sebutan huruf itu berubah menjadi "L". Kesalahan sebutan ini tidak diperbaiki dan seterusnya digunakan oleh orang Barat untuk merujuk Negara Sri Dharmaraja atau Tamponling.

Dalam rekod yang ditulis oleh Jeremais Van Vilet yang merupakan pedagang Belanda, dia ada menulis nama Negara Sri Dharmaraja sebagai Lijgor Liygoot semasa dia memasuki Siam ketika pemerintahan Somdet Phra Chao Prasart Thong.

John Crawfurd juga ada merekod nama Ligor semasa dia menjadi duta mewakili India untuk berurusan dengan Siam semasa Somdet Phraputh Lanabhaalai bertakhta di Krung Rattanakosin.

Nama Ligor ini digunakan oleh orang Barat bagi merujuk batu bersurat ke-23 yang ditemui di Wat Semachaiy.
dreamhunter
Ok, Son. You're doing great. Keep it up.

Now, allow me to interject.

My belief is that the most likely meaning of the name Tambralingga is the literal one, i.e. "copper phallus", i.e. referring to the "power" tool of Shiva, with all due respect. Because the linga of Shiva was the symbol of divine power by which the human raja also 'tumpang sekaki', supposedly playing his role as Shiva's avatar or jelmaan, or representative.

Bearing in mind also that Ligor was also reputed to hv rich deposits of copper in its land during that time.

"Tam" means "red". "Tambra", sometimes also written as "Tamba", "Tambara" or "Tamara" I believe means "red metal", i.e. "copper". I believe our Malay word "tembaga" for "copper" likely came from it.

The island of Sri Lanka, also called "Suvarnadvipa" (Island of Gold) in Sanskrit, which was Arabised to a simpler-sounding "Serendib", was also at one time called "Tambapannidvipa" (Copper Leaf Island) due to the copper-leaf shape of the island.

The Mahavamsa in fact claimed that it was King Vijaya the founder of Singhala kingdom who named the island "Thambaparni/Tambapanni" (Copper-coloured Palms) alluding to the copper-coloured palm trees which grew throughout the island.

"Tan Ma Ling" was then I believe simply a Chinese transliteration of Tambralingga. While "Madamalinggam" was I think the Tamil transliteration of "Dharmalingga/Dhammalinga", which I believe was an alternative name for "Tambralingga".

For some reason Tamils/Indians often like to add the prefix "Ma" to some place names. E.g. they called some place in ancient Burma as "Mapappalam" (I still hv yet to find out which the exact site for this was, possibly Pegu, Pagan, Thaton, Mandalay etc.). They also called Palembang as Mavilimbangam.

Whereas "Tan Mei Liao" n "Tan Mi Liu" were I think more likely the Chinese transliterations of "Tanah Melayu", a name by which by our Semenanjung had become possibly quite well known by the 9th century AD (i.e. 800 - 899 AD) onwards, after its absorption into the Malayu-speaking Srivijayan realm under Maharaja Dharmasetu possibly in the early 8th century.

I didn't know that "Ligor" was actually a Portuguese rendition of "Nagara". I just thought it was a local Ligorian Malay adaptation of "Lingga". Interesting.
dreamhunter
BTW, do you hv any English translations of the Mon chronicles, Chamadevivamsa n Jinakalamali? N there's also another one, I can't remember the name now.
sonofgunongjerai
^^^

I am also trying to find the texts about Chamadevivamsa...... About Jinakalamali, I heard that it has been transcribed by Prince Damrong into Thai script. I couldn't find any link right now but I have the info maybe cropped from Chamadevivamsa and Jinakalamali, it would be much better if we could study the text ourselves so that maybe we can trace the story about Nakon Si Thammarat.

Haripunchai (Haripunjaya) was a kingdom of Mon in northern Thailand around the 11th century. The main city was Lamphun, at that time also called Haripunchai. In 1281 it was besieged by the Thai.

According to the Chamadevivamsa and Jinakalamali chronicles the city was founded by the hermit Suthep in 661, and the ruler from Lopburi sent his daughter Jamadevi as the first queen. However this dating is now usually considered wrong, and the actual beginning is now placed at around 750. At that time most of central Thailand was under the rulership of Mon city states, called the Dvaravati kingdom. Queen Jamadevi gave birth to twins, the older one succeeding her as the ruler of Lamphun, the younger one became ruler of neighboring Lampang.

The Khmer unsuccessfully besieged Haripunchai two or three times in the 11th century, however it is not clear if the chronicles describe actual or legendary events - however the other Dvaravati Mon kingdoms fell at that time. The early 13th century was the golden time for Haripunchai, as the chronicles only tell about religious activities or buildings, not about wars anymore. Even though Haripunchai was besieged in 1281, when the Thai king Mengrai incorporated it into his Lannathai kingdom.

List of Kings
Names of Kings of the Haripunchai kingdom according to Tamnan Haripunchai (History of Kingdom of Haripunchai)

1. Queen Jamadevi
2. Hanayos
3. Kumanjaraj
4. Rudantra
5. Sonamanjusaka
6. Samsara
7. Padumaraj
8. Kusadeva
9. Nokaraj
10. Dasaraj
11. Gutta
12. Sera
13. Yuvaraj
14. Brahmtarayo
15. Muksa
16. Traphaka
17. Uchitajakraphad king of Lavo
18. Kampol
19. Jakaphadiraj King of Atikuyaburi
20. Vasudev
21. Yeyyala
22. Maharaj King of Lampang
23. Sela
24. Kanjana
25. Chilanka
26. Phunthula
27. Ditta
28. Chettharaj
29. Jeyakaraj
30. Phatijjaraj
31. Thamikaraj
32. Ratharaj
33. Saphasith
34. Chettharaj
35. Jeyakaraj
36. Datvanyaraj
37. Ganga
38. Siribun
39. Uthen
40. Phanton
41. Atana
42. Havam
43. Trangal
44. Yotta
45. Yip

What wonder us is that who is the husband of Jamadevi???
sonofgunongjerai
By the way, the years indicating events in the article from website is in Putthasakarat (Buddha Era). Buddha Era starts 543 years earlier than Christ Era. So you may have to plus 543 years to current year e.g now year 2008 is equivalent to 2551 Buddha Era. I apologize because I am lazy to convert Buddha Era into Christ Era, Thais always use Buddha Era like Muslims in Saudi Arabia using Hijrah calender.

Somdet in the articles used in front of Kings name means "Lord", I guess it is from Khmer Somdech.

I wonder who is those Dharmashoka, are they related to Ashoka emperor in India? But that Ashoka is the ruler of Maurya dynasty 273 BC - 232 BC while the articles is talking about Nakon Si Thammarat in 10th C. Two Dhammashoka in here, Phra Janaka (the father) and Phrah Orasa (the son). I think we also need the Chronicle Phrah Datu Nakorn. Phrah Datu Nakorn talks about Naksat Cities which also covers a vast area of Malaysia today.

QUOTE
The Naksat cities are a chain of twelve inter-linked cities or muangs of the ancient Malay empire of Langkasuka. The cities acted as an outer shield, surrounding the capital Nakorn Si Thammarat, and were connected by land so that help could be sent from one city to another in the event of surprise attacks.

The term Naksat refers to the Lunar calendar system, the Naksat Pi, which is based on a duodenary cycle of years, with each year being associated with a particular animal.

Eleven of the twelve cities have been identified and are all located on the Malay Peninsula. The eleven cities with their associated animal "years" are Narathiwat (Rat), Pattani (Cow), Kelantan (Tiger), Kedah (Big Snake), Patalung (Little Snake), Trang (Horse), Chumporn (Goat), Krabi (Monkey), Kanchanadit (Chicken), Phuket or Takuapa (Dog) and Kraburi (Pig). The missing city, Muang Pahang, is associated with the Year of the Rabbit. It has also been speculated that Kota Gelanggi is the twelfth city.


Do you people know that Piama Calender that was used in Kedah by the oldies are based from this Lunar System, I can't remember whether I have stated this in another thread or forum in this website but I think nothing to lose by doing it again, people can find more info about Kedah and other parts of Langkasuka as it is very little info can be found in the website.

Here there are, twelve animals in twelve cycle of year:

QUOTE
Chut - Tikus or Tikut/Rat
Chelu - Lembu/Cow
Khan - Harimau/Tiger
Thok - Pelandok/Deer
Merong - Naga/Dragon
Mesing - Ular/Snake
Memih - Kuda/Horse
Memia - Kambing/Goat
Wok - Beruk or Monyet/Monkey
Reka - Ayam/Roaster
Cho - Anjing/Dog
Kun - Kura/Tortoise


Those twelve cycle of year are used by oldies in Kedah last time to predict the season of paddy agriculture. Too bad, not all Kedahans know about this anymore, it is extinct now.
sonofgunongjerai
Here is the point of history on Songkhla, it is just up north to Kedah, if you walk past the border of Kedah and Thailand, you already in Songkhla:

Songkhla has been dubbed ďthe great city of two seasĒ. It overlooks Lake Songkhla (the inland sea or Thale Nai as local People call it) on the west and the Gulf of Thailand (the outer sea or Thale Nok as local people call it) on the east. An area of sandy ridges and low plains on the Sathing Phra peninsula. These rridges developed from sand collecting offshore among the seaweed on stretches of clay. Long sandy ridges were built up all along the shore, from Amphoe Ranot. Ampho Krasae Sin, Ampho Sathing Phra, Ampho Singhanakhon, as far as Ampho Muang, Ampho Chana, Ampho Na Mom and Ampho Thepha. The higher sandy areas are sites where communities appeared, since the lower areas have been planted as paddy fields.

The hillocks in some areas of Ampho Hadnyai, Khuan Niang and Rattaphum were created as the land lifted.

Low-lying plains skirt the shores of Songkhla Lake in Ampho Bang Klam, Ampho Khuan Niang, Ampho Hadnyai and in parts of Ampho Muang. The lake has an area of about 1,040 sq.km. Only a small part is fresh-water. Most of the middle and lowest sections are brackish or brackish and salty, but the ecosystem is rich and diverse. The lake is an important resource for local people especially fisherman. Around Ko Yo, Pla Kapong fish are raised in floating baskets. Pla Kra Bok fish are also raised commercially along the gulf coast and in districts around Songkhla Lake such as Tambon Ko Yo and Khao Daeng. A low-lying plain to the north has many paddy fields and valuable water resources. Nakhon Si Thammarat, Phatthalung, and Songkhl are respectively the largest southern producers of rice.

The range of mountains, foothills and plains which are connected with those in Malaysia covers parts of Ampho Saba Yoi, Na Thawi, Sadao, Na Mom, Khlong Hoi Khong and Hat Yai.

Prehistory: The Stone Age. A stone axe, about 3,000 years old, found at Ban Phli Khwai, Tambon Kradang-nga. Sathing Phra, indicates that community moved from their caves to settle in the fertile plain around Lake Songkhla and along the sand ridge of the Sathing Phra peninsula.

Bronze Age. Abronze cermonial drum or Dong Son drum found in Chana. This testifies to settlements along the seacoast, and early trade among communities.

Historical Periods in the 1st and 2nd centuries, it is believed that Ban Sathing Mo was the first community to be established on Sathing Phra peninsula. The people were Hindu traders and fisherman. Sathing Phra, which was and agricultural area, flourished later as a port city.

In the 6th century, Buddhist culture began to appear on the Sathing Phra peninsula, entering the area with Indian traders.

In the 7th century, Sathing Phra was an international port and an administrative center for fthe areas around Songkhla Lake.

In the 9th century, Mahayana Buddhism from India was assimilated in this area.

In the 12th century, after the decline of the Siwichai Empire, the people of Sathing Phra were converted to Langkawong Buddhism from Sri Lanka.

At the end of the 13th century, the Phatthalung at Phakho settlement was founded. This ancient community is now located at Wat Phakho. White ruled by the Ayutthaya kingdom, it was both a port and an agricultural area. It was also an important center of Lakawong Buddhism in the deep South. Phakho acted as a buffer between Nakhon Si Thammarat, the center of Lankan Buddhism and Pattani the center of Muslimís coming from Sumatra to the Peninsula Malaysia. Aroyal tradition was begun to grant the land and people to Wat Phakho.

In the 14th century, the city of Phakho declined in the face of marauding invaders from the sea. The people retreated and settled near the mouth of Lake Songkhla at the foothills of Khao Daeng mountain and Bang Kaeo, now in Amphoe Khao Chai Son in Phatthalung province.

In the mid 16th century, the city of Songkhla at Hua Khao Daeng was an international port under the rule of Dato Moghal, a Muslim leader. Merchants from southern India called the community in this area Singkhon Nakhon, the mountain city.

In the latter half of the 17th century, the city grew as the Chinese took the lead commercially. More houses were built on a narrow plain at the very end of the Sathing Phra peninsula. This settlement later became the city of Songkhla on the Laem Son shore, near Wat Bo Sap and Wat Suwankhiri.

In the 18th century, the Thon Buri period, King Taksin appointed Chin Yiang Sae Hao, who was the founder of the Na Songkhla clan, governor of Songkhla in 1775/

In the Rattanakosin period during the reign of the King Rama III, Songkhla moved to its present location on Tambon Bo Yang in 1842.

In the reign of King Rama V, the city of Songkhla was under Monthon Nakhon Si Thammarat.

There was a packet boat running between Songkhla and Bangkok and amoung various cities in the South and Singapore. Songkhla became center of a commercial port in the South. A rubber plantation was also begun at this period.

In 1917ís, a railroad was built in Amphoe Nuea (later called Amphoe Hat Yai). This was the biggest railway junction. In the region of King Rama VII, the Monthon administration was abolished and Songkhla became a province since then.

Songkhla nestles against a route onnecting the cultures of East and West, islands and land masses. It is thus a kind of melting pot from the nations and races, a boundary between Buddhist and Islamic cultures. Historically, Songkhla has been free commercial port and is home to a large community of overseas Chinese.


Thai Buddhists

Many southerners are Buddhist, including the residents of Songkhla and immigrants from Phatthalung and Nakhon Si Thammarat. The people are mostly farmers.


Muslim Thai

The lives of local Muslims are shaped by the cultures of Java and Malayu. Most Muslims Thai are fisher folk or traders who live along the shores of the lake and on the Gulf of Thailand. There are Muslims Thai living in border areas between Buddhists in Songkhla and Muslims in Pattani in Amphoe Thepha and Amphoe Chana.
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