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seasurfer
What is the real reason behind the decline of Jawi script? It was the written Malay for few hundreds years. Why was it phrase out in the last 100 years?


Corrected error.
JakeCutter
Goombaking209
Because the Chinese-Malay don't want to learn the Jawi script.
PerisaiLangkasuka
Jawi (not Jawa) is just Arabic script used to spell Malay words. It had a particular Malay identity cos it was not western (read: Roman), plus the older generation maybe preferred it to the Rumi (Roman) script.

But it also had certain disadvantages, for instance in certain cases you could spell a word in more than one way, n you can't be sure which would be the best one.
fatman
QUOTE(PerisaiLangkasuka @ May 19 2008, 09:57 AM) [snapback]3705824[/snapback]
Jawi (not Jawa) is just Arabic script used to spell Malay words. It had a particular Malay identity cos it was not western (read: Roman), plus the older generation maybe preferred it to the Rumi (Roman) script.

But it also had certain disadvantages, for instance in certain cases you could spell a word in more than one way, n you can't be sure which would be the best one.



LOL I have the same problem reading Jawi script embarassedlaugh.gif
VAMAN
QUOTE(PerisaiLangkasuka @ May 19 2008, 08:27 PM) [snapback]3705824[/snapback]
Jawi (not Jawa) is just Arabic script used to spell Malay words. It had a particular Malay identity cos it was not western (read: Roman), plus the older generation maybe preferred it to the Rumi (Roman) script.

But it also had certain disadvantages, for instance in certain cases you could spell a word in more than one way, n you can't be sure which would be the best one.

You said Jawi script is like Arabic script so I will give my opinion. Actually a word is not spelled more than one way, those words may sound similar to you but actually they sound very different. Arabic scrip is very phonetic, whereas Roman scrip is not that phonetic.
kreten
QUOTE(VAMAN @ May 19 2008, 01:45 PM) [snapback]3706010[/snapback]
You said Jawi script is like Arabic script so I will give my opinion. Actually a word is not spelled more than one way, those words may sound similar to you but actually they sound very different. Arabic scrip is very phonetic, whereas Roman scrip is not that phonetic.

1. In Arabic script you usually don't write short vowels. Maybe there is just one way to write a word, but there are dozens of ways to read it.
2. How phonetic Roman script is depends on the language you write. Roman script for English language is very far from being phonetic.
bktrokan
decline in Jawi...sending muslim brothers and sisters far away from AlQuran....so...far away from Islamic teaching....

If one can read al-quran, most likely he or she can read Jawi...
Protoculture
QUOTE
If one can read al-quran, most likely he or she can read Jawi...


Not necessarily. Most can read al-Quran, yet still can't read Jawi. While Jawi is derived from Arabic alphabets & script, its structurally & linguistically different from Arab writings & language.

Nowadays though, Jawi is slowly enjoying a revival. Which is good thing in my book!
seasurfer
Still no one discuss the reason of the decline?
HangPC2
Aksara Rencong Alphabet




Aksara Kaganga Alphabet




Palava Alphabet




Kawi Alphabet




Jawi Alphabet



HangPC2
TRACING THE ORIGINS OF THE JAWI SCRIPT

The Jawi letters have been in existence in the Malay archipelago for centuries. It shares a strong bond with the Arabic script, which made its way to the Malay archipelago together with Islam, disseminated by Muslim traders and missionaries of Arab, Indian and Chinese origins in the 7th century.

Prior to the Arabic script, the Malays were using the "rencong (sharp-pointed) script" written on bamboo stems and leaves. This was followed by the "kawi" and "palava" writings, both of Indian origin.

With the coming of Islam, the Malays tried to use the palava or kawi characters to write about Islam, but both were unsuitable as they could not properly pronounce the verses of the Quran and Hadis.

"The situation prompted the Malays to experiment with Arabic characters. Hence, the Jawi script is truly the creation of the Malays even though it is based on the Arabic script," said Dr Hashim Musa, former lecturer with Universiti Malaya's Malay Studies Academy who has written a book, "The History of the Development of the Jawi Script".

He said the Malays eventually included several letters to conform with the Malay syllables, which are 'che', 'nge', 'pa', 'ge' and 'nye'. The letter 'vi' was later introduced in the 1990's by the Malay language custodian, Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka.

The earliest evidence of the existence of the Jawi script was the discovery of inscriptions on a stone dated 702H (1303 AD) and according to Hashim, Sanskrit words could still be seen on the inscribed stone.

But the modern day Jawi script is due to the initiative taken to systematise the Jawi script by none other than Zainal Abidin Ahmad, the leading Malay literary figure or better known as Pendeta Za'ba, who produced the "Daftar Ejaan Melayu Jawi-Rumi" (Jawi-Roman Spelling Register), which he worked on in 1938 and only printed in 1949.

-BERNAMA-
seasurfer
The Aksara alphabets look pretty cute to me. Ha...I propose to use them to write Malay.
Protoculture
QUOTE
The Aksara alphabets look pretty cute to me. Ha...I propose to use them to write Malay.


Jawi is fine as it is, since it is still the medium where our Classical Malay is written with.
sonofgunongjerai
A very nice thread Seasurfer, you are the most concerned and open minded Chinese (if I'm not mistaken) that I've ever seen. Maybe everyone has forgotten about Jawi has been abolished from national Malay system by our early leaders. One of them is Mr. Khir Johari, eventhough he is a Kedahan as I am, I feel ashame to our muslim ancestors because of his plan as an Education Minister and it was agreed by other cabinet members. Even his successors never tried to replace the Romanized Malay writing into Jawi back. Jawi was a writing used by muslim Malay to learn Islamic knowledges and it is used by Malay kingdoms around 13th century as the script to write documents and codes. It is also the symbol of our freedom from Western colonization in 19th century, like Thai Nolya script is the symbol of Thai nationalism.

Other point is that, Malaysian at the early time trying to standardize the script with Indonesian counterpart without checking the impacts that will be received by classical Malay used in Malaysia. I do not agree with the opinions about Jawi couldn't represent the sound of modern Malay pronunciation, it is just a baseless reason. I can write Kedahan dialect well with Jawi and they sounds better than Romanized script represents. Many Malay younger generation cannot read Jawi well after the declining of Jawi in public usage and some of them cannot read classical prose, thus they have no sense over traditional arts anymore and becoming westernized easily. The younger generations will eventually adopt Western frozen culture and being close minded like the Westerners.

A very brilliant proposal Seasurfer, to use Kawi script to write Malay. Malay that used Kawi and Pallawa script is actually known as ancient Malay. Kawi means poem in Sanskrit and it was a loanword in Malay. Kawi is used by the Javanese and not by Malays in Malayan Peninsula, Javanese in Java Island today still learning Kawi script at their schools because not all Javanese in Java Island are muslim, there may be Javanese with Kejawen belief which based from ancient Hinduism. Kawi is a modified form of Pallawa writing and that script is so difficult to be mastered even by a Hindu Javanese.

Malays in ancient time before accepting Islam are Mahayana Buddhists, some may be Buddhists but calling themselves as Hindus because they modified some of Hindus culture. Malay use Pallawa script to write inscriptions, it is based from Southern Indian Brahmin scripts, that script evolved to be Myanmar script and Khmer script today while Thais adopt the modification form of Khmer script. I learned this script through Thai script, there is a book called "Patti Sanskerit" or "Reading Sanskrit. It uses Pallawa writing together with the comparison in Thai script, I borrowed it last year and trying to learn Sanskrit through Thai.
seasurfer
QUOTE(sonofgunongjerai @ May 26 2008, 09:40 AM) [snapback]3719391[/snapback]
A very nice thread Seasurfer, you are the most concerned and open minded Chinese (if I'm not mistaken) that I've ever seen. Maybe everyone has forgotten about Jawi has been abolished from national Malay system by our early leaders. One of them is Mr. Khir Johari, eventhough he is a Kedahan as I am, I feel ashame to our muslim ancestors because of his plan as an Education Minister and it was agreed by other cabinet members. Even his successors never tried to replace the Romanized Malay writing into Jawi back. Jawi was a writing used by muslim Malay to learn Islamic knowledges and it is used by Malay kingdoms around 13th century as the script to write documents and codes. It is also the symbol of our freedom from Western colonization in 19th century, like Thai Nolya script is the symbol of Thai nationalism.

Other point is that, Malaysian at the early time trying to standardize the script with Indonesian counterpart without checking the impacts that will be received by classical Malay used in Malaysia. I do not agree with the opinions about Jawi couldn't represent the sound of modern Malay pronunciation, it is just a baseless reason. I can write Kedahan dialect well with Jawi and they sounds better than Romanized script represents. Many Malay younger generation cannot read Jawi well after the declining of Jawi in public usage and some of them cannot read classical prose, thus they have no sense over traditional arts anymore and becoming westernized easily. The younger generations will eventually adopt Western frozen culture and being close minded like the Westerners.

A very brilliant proposal Seasurfer, to use Kawi script to write Malay. Malay that used Kawi and Pallawa script is actually known as ancient Malay. Kawi means poem in Sanskrit and it was a loanword in Malay. Kawi is used by the Javanese and not by Malays in Malayan Peninsula, Javanese in Java Island today still learning Kawi script at their schools because not all Javanese in Java Island are muslim, there may be Javanese with Kejawen belief which based from ancient Hinduism. Kawi is a modified form of Pallawa writing and that script is so difficult to be mastered even by a Hindu Javanese.

Malays in ancient time before accepting Islam are Mahayana Buddhists, some may be Buddhists but calling themselves as Hindus because they modified some of Hindus culture. Malay use Pallawa script to write inscriptions, it is based from Southern Indian Brahmin scripts, that script evolved to be Myanmar script and Khmer script today while Thais adopt the modification form of Khmer script. I learned this script through Thai script, there is a book called "Patti Sanskerit" or "Reading Sanskrit. It uses Pallawa writing together with the comparison in Thai script, I borrowed it last year and trying to learn Sanskrit through Thai.


Wow, very informative, you are one the most knowledgeable Malaysian I know. This is the kind of information I have been looking for a long time. Thanks for this invaluable lesson. I really did not know that Kawi is still being used, it is really great to know that it is still being used.

I have always been wondering for years why there is a need to abolish Jawi, initially I thought that is was difficult, therefore making the assumption that it was the reason for its decline. Until a few years ago, I decided to learn Arabic, after learning all the Arabic alphabet and some basic Arabic, I realized that I can read most Jawi sign board and road signs in my hometown Johor without much trouble, therefore making me think that it wasn't difficult after all. Since it is not difficult, than why want to abolish it.

Then one day, there was a Chinese calligraphy and Arabic calligraphy competition side by side in my school. Initially I only took part in the Chinese calligraphy, since I was good at that. During the competition, I found it amusing to see some beautiful Arabic calligraphy written by some of the Malay participants. I told the organizer that I understand some Arabic and requested them to allow me to also take part in the Arabic calligraphy competition, I also told them since this is unexpected to me, I don't have those specially made pen to write Arabic calligraphy, I told them that I will use my Chinese brush to write after I finish my Chinese calligraphy. This was my first time attempting to write Arabic calligraphy, I was also the only Chinese in a sea of Malay participants, this make me very nervous, but the whole process is so fun, the Arabic characters are so beautiful to write as an art. Though I never win the prize, but I was so happy to learn something new. Ok....I will admit that I was happy because all the Malay girls came to surround me after the competition, I get all the attention from them, felt so pampered by them... laugh.gif laugh.gif

This competition made me realize that Jawi script has its beauty that is not replaceable by roman alphabets. This even makes me wonder more, why was it abolished? Don't the Malay love Jawi art? Isn't it beautiful? Isn't it part of the culture? Doesn't it make a person learn Arabic easier, therefore making it more useful? The government wants to promote Malay, but isn't this part of the original Malay? The Chinese never object using Jawi anyway...
sonofgunongjerai
That is very nice of you, you have made efforts in learning others' culture aand heritage, you deserve the credit as an open minded non-Malay Malaysians with vast knowledges. Thus you also deserve respects from others. Kedahan Chinese in my village too can read in Jawi and Thai script, so do Kelantanese Chinese.

For the majority plain and village like Malay as me, yes I think that Jawi is beautiful, many plain Malays like me learned Jawi alphabets first at home before entering nursery and learning A, B and C, while for Thai alphabets I learned it from my cousins in Thailand part, lucky to have relatives beyond the border laugh.gif

Jawi made us easier to read Quranic verses which is in pure Arabic, but an Arab will take months to read bahasa Melayu in Jawi because Malay can be spelt in many ways in Jawi. It is due to Malay elites who are active in country's political chess inferiority complex that made them feeling shy of whatever traditional including their own native culture, they feels that they should take West as their model and bahasa Melayu with Jawi is considered as out of date. So, they had just became like most close minded Westerners that they adore much by abolishing Jawi in the national language system. The result is many Malaysians have no chance to portray their art in many choices of calligraphy while those elites' still and forever will be proud with their Western dipped culture. I wonder what is the relevance behind the changing of the system since those elites never use national language in written or spoken form among themselves? Not everything from Western world or foreign world are bad but these elites never filthering the unnecessary things from foreign culture, they choose to totally leaving their own and adore others'. This is wrong.

Very well indeed, you had broadened your horizon in arts field. I suppose that those malay girls are amazed with your enthusiasm. Keep that good work.
HangPC2
Hidupkan Tulisan Jawi !!!!
Crystallised Dream
The Kawi script looks really nice. : D
HangPC2
QUOTE(PerisaiLangkasuka @ May 19 2008, 10:57 PM) [snapback]3705824[/snapback]
Jawi (not Jawa) is just Arabic script used to spell Malay words. It had a particular Malay identity cos it was not western (read: Roman), plus the older generation maybe preferred it to the Rumi (Roman) script.

But it also had certain disadvantages, for instance in certain cases you could spell a word in more than one way, n you can't be sure which would be the best one.





Jawi Was Arab word for means '' mixture''. The Arab called all nusantara people (south east asia) by the name of Banu al-Jawiyun @ Bani Jawi (mixture races)
HangPC2
HangPC2
Batu Bersurat Terengganu (Inscribed Stone of Terengganu)







Asa pada Dewata Mulia Raya beri hamba menegoh Ugama Islam............


Tuhan atau Subhanahu wa Ta'ala telah diungkapkan dengan Dewata Mulia Raya.



Sources : http://www.etourz.com/batu_bersurat.htm

http://portal.unesco.org/ci/photos/showgallery.php/cat/949
AzizMostafa
Informative+Interesting
http://typophile.com/user/12550
Thanks with Flowers
malaccan
توغكو افالاكى؟ تفوك داداتنيا سليرا. هيدوفكن توليسن جاوي كيت

QUOTE(sonofgunongjerai @ May 26 2008, 07:21 PM) [snapback]3719671[/snapback]
For the majority plain and village like Malay as me, yes I think that Jawi is beautiful, many plain Malays like me learned Jawi alphabets first at home before entering nursery and learning A, B and C, while for Thai alphabets I learned it from my cousins in Thailand part, lucky to have relatives beyond the border laugh.gif

Wow. Not meaning to be condescending, but you seem way better off than many other Malays in terms of language. I don't know which education system or period you come from but your English is great. I went to school and KL and did not go to any sekolah agama in the evenings which was a norm for some. Yet my parents instilled in me a love for Jawi for which I'm thankful for. Anyway, mu ni boleh kecek Sie lah dok?


anakjakarta84
This is a very interesting thread. And you made great comments Sonof, but I don’t agree with one point. I really don’t think that the Javanese are still using their script because some of them are not Muslims. What about the Sundanese people? They are still learning their traditional script in schools too and they’re 99.9% Muslims. Just because they are Muslims doesn’t mean that they eventually will/ or even need to replace their script with Arabic script. Here are the scripts still used in Indonesia followed by the languages that use them (as far as I can research):

Lontara’ (Bugis, Makassarese, Bimanese, Mandarese)



Rencong (Kerinci/Komering)



Kaganga/Had Lampung (Rejang/Lampungese)




Carakan/Hanacaraka (Javanese/Balinese)



Surat Batak (Batak Languages: Karo, Mandailing, Toba, Dairi, Simalungan, Angkola)




Sunda Kuna (Sundanese)



Surat Ulu (Ulu people)




anakjakarta84
This is the summary:





Notice how similar Surat Ulu from Malaysia is to Rencong, Lontaraq, Surat Batak and Kaganga. And notice too how the Surat Ulu alphabet starts with Ka-Ga-Nga consonants like the other alphabets. However, it then goes into Ta-Da-Na, Pa-Ba-Ma and finally Ca-Ja-Nya sequence, whereas the Indonesian consonants go into Ca-Ja-Nya, Ta-Da-Na and finally to Pa-Ba-Ma. Inconclusion, they are still very related. Oh, I forgot to mention that the Sunda Kuna alphabet was replaced by the Javanese alphabet, however it was revived again very recently.


More of Surat Batak


Baybayin/Alibata from the Philippines:



kumanddie
Apparently Malaysia is a lost Malay world. Most of this scriptures were not found in Malaysian soil. We need to pay tribute to our fellow Indonesian for keeping our ancient scriptures alive. Our anthropologist and archaelogist must buck up. We need to do more research about ancient scriptures and lost cities.
deadfish
QUOTE(Goombaking209 @ May 18 2008, 04:44 PM) [snapback]3704283[/snapback]
Because the Chinese-Malay don't want to learn the Jawi script.


I believe that is not entirely true. Other races simply do not have the support to learn. At a young age, we're forced into racial segregated groups. The Malays would attend agama lessons while the Other races attend moral lessons. I understand that to force agama lesson onto other races would bring another round of uproar from the Chinese community and Indian community.

But, if we could have compacted the agama lessons and moral lessons into a Malaysian Social Studies, that includes a little introduction to Buddhism, and Hinduism and other cultural differences, wouldn't it give a majority of Malaysians more to learn and a more 'open' mindset?

Or perhaps there are still fears that some Malays might find interest in other religion?(taboo) not that i am instigating. But it is no doubt a point to ponder upon. Until the day comes whereby ALL malaysians have the freedom to choose their own religion, perhaps my idea is off the books to many yet.
HangPC2






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