Actually, it's not the CCP that originated these findings. In fact, the original research on Koguryo was not politically motivated at all. It is the Koreans who politicized it.

The research done on Koguryo was part of China's Xungen (searching for roots) movement in it's academic circles in the 80's. It was a response to the Cultural Revolution, and it's primary characteristic was that it claimed minority cultures were just as representative of Chinese culture as Han culture is. Therefore, the heritage of ethnic Manchurians, Koreans, Uighurs, Tibetans, Zhuang, Hui, etc. should also be celebrated as equally Chinese. So it was during this time that academics started to do research on Koguryo, their findings were not shocking. Koguryo is part of the heritage of China's ethnic minorities, who since were EQUALLY Chinese, was also part of China's heritage as a whole.

However, after several years passed, Koreans started to find out about these academic studies, and due to their xenophobic nature and their lack of understanding about minorities (because Koreans are too intolerant to allow any minorities in their country, let alone recognize them as equal) Koreans could not comprehend the ideology behind the Xungen movement, which was actually quite progressive in that it strongly recognized the equal rights of minority groups INCLUDING ethnic Koreans. Now, this whole issue has become politicized and China decided to settle it for now to prevent escalation because apparently Koreans do not understand the depth of the situation and only take it for nationalistic propaganda, when in fact, these academic articles were not political in substance when they were first being published in the 80's and 90's.

Koreans over-exagerrate their threat to China. There is no reason why China would feel threatened by Korea, and certainly not be threatened enough to try to create some kind of secret project to "rob Koreans of their heritage". The issue of Koguryo is actually a very DOMESTIC Chinese issue and has NOTHING to do with N. or S. Korea. It is an academic domestic issue that actually represents something very progressive, and that is the empowerment of minority consciousness and the social equality of minority Chinese.

Look there's a difference between tolerating minorities and claiming a huge part of a history that's not yours. Don't you see that?

I don't care about the minority situation in China. You're infringing on OUR Korean national identity. That's a bigger concern for me. Of course, if you Chinese people weren't so selfish, you'd understand what I was talking about.

Don't try to justify something you know is totally wrong.

But it is not totally wrong. That's the problem with Koreans, your nationalism is always placed above rational thought. Yes, Koguryo was a part of Korea's heritage. However, it was also part of the heritage of the Manchurians and other nomadic tribes of Donbei as WELL as the ethnic Korean Chinese. So are you denying them their heritage as well?

Never knew you could put a birbed wire fence around history.

Most ethnic groups who lived in China came there a long time ago and assimilated into Chinese indigenous population. You can't call them Koreans because they're Chinese first and foremost. Your claims are totally ridiculous. It's like you're saying Koreans are the same Chinese. They are not. And you can't be BOTH Chinese and Korean at the same time.

It's the same as Korean American who live in the US. Wouldn't it be ridiculous, if Americans began saying that a huge part of Korean history is theirs because there are Koreans living in the US?

Of course the US can't. But they can say the Korean War is part of their history.

Anyways the US is TOTALLY different from China. China has been interacting with people in the Korean penninsula probably as long as it's own history. Korea has also been part of the Chinese empire or a tribute state for many centuries. Even up to the first Sino-Japanese war, in which the Qing empire lost Choson to the Japanese - you cannot deny that China doesn't share any history with Korea.

Chinese refugees and people of the Yan kingdom fled to Koguryo since the first Chinese dynasty came into power. Silla and the Tang both took part in carving up Koguryo as well. Northern Korea was ruled by the Chinese, while Silla held the south. Just because present day borders place Koguryo in North Korea doesn't mean it's not part of Chinese history.

Manchurians, Koreans, Mongolians whatever. They still retain their ethnic identity but in China their nationality is Chinese and they do embrace it. And this is something South Koreans will never understand. History goes beyond modern day borders. Because South Koreans are so xenophobic, they want to reserve Koguryo's legacy JUST to themselves because it helped influence their society. Well Koguryo also influenced China's Dongbei so I think it's a piece of history both countries should share.

so if koreans or any other countries try to take some parts of chinese history into their own, china would gladly give it away, since they have so many minorities huh.

Do you read ? Koguryo was part of the heritage of minorities, not the HAN.

apparently that is not what your government is claiming.

We're not giving it away, we're sharing it.

If Mongolia claims the Yuan dynasty as part of their history then so be it.

^^...but isn't it the whole point that the chinese are pretty much claiming it as their own?

u such korean bastard... shame on u ...

Koreans are so simple minded.

You are telling me that the ethnic Koreans who live in China, are not Korean? Or they are not Chinese? Make up your mind.

And Koguryo was certainly part of the heritage of the Manchurians, it wasn't a "pure Korean" state. And Manchurians today are certainly a Chinese ethnic group.

And whoever said that Chinese spat on Koreans is a damn liar. The ethnic Koreans in China are treated very well, they know, the S. Koreans know it and the Chinese know it. On the other hand, Chinese are treated like $hit in Korea. Why? Because Koreans are ultranationalist racists with no basic comprehension of equality or tolerance.

You seem to be simple minded bc you don't understand what I'm saying. Let me repeat.

The ethnic groups are not Koreans. They're more like Korean-Chinese or whatever you'd like to call them because they've had to assimilate into the Chinese culture and live as Chinese citizens. They are first and foremost Chinese citizens. Just like Korean Americans in the US. There are definite distinctions to be made because they don't live in Korea, they probably weren't born in Korea, pay Korean taxes etc., and everything else that goes into what constitutes being a Korean citizen. Hence, they're not LOGISTICALLY Korean.

On a side note--weren't the Manchus wiped out--i.e., married into Chinese population. My belief was that there were no Manchus, and the only ethnically pure Manchus currently reside in North Korea. I can be wrong. Anyway, that was a long time ago.

u korean have to thanks chinese man..
without us.. u guys still ---barbarian..
haha and ur country are too small.. u guys don't have rights to talk with chinese government

You wish. Shut the hell up you bastard.

I really don't believe that Korea was part of the Chinese or a tribute state of China because--

1) there is no account of this in Korean history;

2) it probably didn't happen because historically have Koreans highly resent being ruled by a foreign power. Look at Japanese. Koreans hate them to this day, and they certainly remember it. Where is the historical account of Korea being ruled by China. Koreas would certainly have remembered that.

3) Koreans have a distinct culture that is very different from Chinese.

Early in Korea's history it was administered by Chinese. During the peak of the power Korea was not under Chinese rule but were a tributary state. China was Korea's protectorate until the first Sino-Japanese war in which Japan forced China to recognize Korea's full independence.


"Probably" doesn't cut it. Why don't you pick up any East Asian history text take a look. I suggest "East Asia at the center" by Warren I. Cohen. Of course Koreans would not like to acknowledge they were ever ruled by an outsider, especially a society as xenophobic as Korea. Let's also not forget Japan's rule ended only 60 years or so ago - there is a more lasting impression.


No one is denying that. But explain the heavy influence of Chinese architecture on anciet Korean buildings, the fact that most old Korean words sound almost identical to Chinese (example: Nung Ren = farmer in mandarin. Almost all Korean cities sound like Chinese: There is a city called Haenam in Korea and an island called Hainan in China which mean the same thing), the influence of Taoism/Confucianism/Buddhism on Korean culture, the fact that the cultural elite in ancient Korean society spoke and wrote Chinese, Bronze Age brought ot Korea from China, etc.

there is no way korea would thank the communists.

No, thank to the Imperial China who introduced the Chinese culture into Korean peninsula.

A Chinese poster said that Koguryo is part of Chinese history because of its Manchurian past. But my understanding is that Manchurians as an ethnic group currently do not exist in China as they married into the Chinese population. The only ethnically pure Manchurians currently reside in North Korea. Therefore, these facts cement Korea's claim on Koguryo. Any Chinese poster want to refute me on this on this one?

I don't think you fully understood his post.
The Sushen cluster , which covers Mo (who founded Koguryo), Manchu and other ethnicties in Dongbei, still exists. Koguryo was a heritage of Koreans, Manchu AS WELL AS other ethnicities. Please provide me datas or evidences to show ALL Manchus have been married into HAN population. And please provide me evidences on the pure Manchus only reside in North Korea
Just so you know, practicing one's culture doesn't mean being married into the population. Of course, Xenophobic and simple-minded Koreans can't understand this concept. Many Evenks, Orochins, Manchus, Darwo.....live in their isolated communities and stay "pure". They're just as rightful to claim Koguryo as their heritage. Since they're now Chinese ethnicities ( remind you again, China is a nation of multi-ethnicities), Koguryo can be considered China's minority history.

So I mean what is really the purpose of sinicization? What good will it do the Chinese in the end?

There is no evidence that Koguryo people were of mixed Manchu, Korean etc. peoples. There is strong evidence that they were Koreans, since their capital was located in North Korea.

You mean to say that someone of mixed descent has more or equal rights than someone who is a direct descendent?

I'd go even go to the extreme to say the fact that North Koreans are of homogenous ethnicity ensures the fact that they are the direct ancestors of Kokuryo. Therefore, their claim to Kokuryo is more legitimate.

Northeast China is another story becuase of everyone is mixed. You don't know who descended from who.

LOL this thread is so amusing, can't we all just shake hands and get along? What's really sad here and on AF in general is the fact that no one can address each other personally and must insult each other's races, bringing in all innocent victims to the brawl.

Umm do yourself a favor, go on google and type in the words, Korea, 1910-1945.

lmao seriously. this forum should be called koreans vs chinese forum. but seriously tho the chinese here always start a flame war, i mean wtf are you getting offened by?
just let the koreans think that koguryo was the pure korean kingdom and the chinese think that koguryo was part of thier history because i dout anybody here could prove that koguryo was a pure korean kingdom and vice versa.

Look at the first page and tell me who started the bashing.

It wasn't bashing, it was the truth.

No, Koguryo doesn't exist any more, so China cannot claim it as their 'land'.



Please, be so kind as to list some of Korea's accomplishments.

delete

Historically, it's more probable that Kukoryo is as you call it a "pure Korean kingdom" because: 1) its capital was located North Korea; 2) Koreans have throughout history maintained a ethnically pure identity.

On the other hand, the northeast China has been ruled or has changed hands by so many people so you don't know what's what.

So I mean what is really the purpose of sinicization? What good will it do the Chinese in the end?

What does me being Chinese have to do with anything? I already gave you a verbal warning earlier in this thread, and you said you'd try and keep it down. Yet here, yet again, you bring up the same reference of Chinese people being expendable, clones, dvd makers. Really. Just keep flaming like this out of this discussion. If I see it again, I will give warnings.

Whats sinicization mean?

World domination.









I'm just kidding.

i don't get this...this whole incident started out cuz chinese gov tried to take away the koguryo history from korea not share it
they claimed that koguryo is not part of korea's history cuz koguryo's descendents are not really today's koreans...when majority of them if not all are...
i dun noe when they said they wanna share it but...that was there original view of koguryo and koreans got pissed...and that's how it all started
wat's even more outrageous is that ever since they tried to rationalize their view about koguryo they banned korean archeologist or any koreans for that matter going near the historical koguryo sites in manchuria...
if they are so sure of their view why are they restricting access to only koreans? wat are they afraid of? this and many more actions by chinese gov really dissapointed the koreans and led to this...

I'm pretty sure you're post will get passed over :/. People have "selective" views and want to just keep at the who's better debate lol.

You already gave warnings before.
I was asleep when you wrote this, so whatever.

Listen.
Chinese can insult Koreans, Koreans insult Chinese.
Big deal.
If you want to issue a final warning, go ahead- make my day.

Not offended, the truth is racial flame wars on internet threads are pretty lame. I bet most if not all of you here on both sides Chinese and Korean alike don't have the balls to talk so much crap to each other in real life. The fact that you are on the internet to vent out all of your baggage is rather amusing to say the least.

I know it was colonized stupid.
Just not to the extent that an entire major city was inundated compared to nanjing.
Unless you have proof that a nanjing-style incident occurred in korea at that time.

The Manchus weren't "wiped out". They are still a major ethnic group in NE China, there are over ten million Manchurians today. You seem to not understand the difference between ethnicity and nationality. The ethnic Manchus are Chinese by nationality, but that DOES NOT make then Han Chinese. There is a big difference. Chinese does not equal Han Chinese, unlike Korean=Korean with no question added. Unlike the Koreans and Japanese, the Chinese nationality is plural and diverse with many faces and cultures. So the heritage of our ethnic minorities are also part of China's heritage as well. This is not to say that Koguryo is not part of Korea's heritage, it certainly is. But Koguryo was NOT a pure Korean kingdom. A large portion of it's population consisted of nomadic Manchurian tribes and therefore, it was certainly part of the Manchurian heritage, and hence the larger Chinese heritage as well.

And Korea CERTAINLY was a tributary state to China. In fact, it has been for the vast majority of it's historical existence up to the 19th century. I can't believe you'd even refute that fact. Out of all the countries in the world, Korea was the most dutiful tributary state!

Yeah, this is history as you'd like to see it. Get real.

Did the Manchurians even exist back then? No. So how can you even say a Manchu tribe was part of the Koguryo kingdom. Maybe a tribe that occupied what has recently been known as Manchuria. But they can't certainly can't be called what we know as Manchus--those people who ruled China for 300 years. So you can't say the ethnic group of 2 M manchus are direct descendents of Koguryo. You're mixing the two up. Also, even if a Chinese tribe comprised a part of the Koguryo that would have been nearly 2000 years ago. With all the conquests and change that occurred during the years, they certainly wouldn't exist now. Stop mixing things up to serve your own advantage.

I really don't believe that Koguryo would be a combination of different tribes, but rather people of one ethnicity---Korean. There's more evidence to conclude they were Korean because their capital was smack in the middle of the ancient capital of Korea, and Koreans have not changed over the years.

I repeat no Korean historian has written of such a relationship. Your account is completely one-sided. And with all the fabricating that the Chinese gov't has done, I don't even lend any credence to what you're saying. Koreans certainly would have remebered being ruled by a foreign power because they are a fiercely independent people.

korea was more like a close ally with china back then but there was no chinese people ruling or even living in korea. by the way, korean historians give an accurate account of nomads and japanese conquest of korea.

Korea was NEVER a tributary state to China? Are you kidding me? You mean those hundreds upon hundreds of annual tributes to the Chinese emperor meant nothing? They never happened?

You Korean delusional revisionists are ridiculous.

Also, Koguryo was certainly not PURE Korean. Much of it's population comprised of Northern nomadic tribes who were the progenitors of the modern Manchurian people.

Yes, Korea was a close "ally" to China then as Korea is a close "ally" to the US now.

Korea is a tributary state to the US now and it was a tributary state to China then.

Fierce and independent my @$$.

whatever that makes you happy bro.

You mean to say Koguryo was a combination of Korean and Chinese? You seem to forget people were more xenophobic then than they are now. Tribes almost always were comprised of extended family and blood ties. I'd guess Koguryo was most certainly pure Korean where back then Korean territory occupied the larger Manchurian region. It's a question of borders. Because Korea now only occupies a small peninsula, they don't have any power as to what goes on outside its peninsula. The Chinese gov't is most certainly taking advantage of Korea on this.

If you don't know what I mean by fiercely independent you don't understand Koreans at all. This proves you know nothing about us and Korean and Chinese cultures are miles apart.

This is fu-ked up history. Man, you can't trust any Chinese--they just make things up.

nope...i dun noe wat chinese are saying in their history book about korea but...it only happened during the latter part of koryo and choson dynasty...i wouldn't call that vast majority of korea's history..."dutiful tributary state" or watever u wanna call it i dun care lol if chinese feel proud of this fact then so be it...different views i guess...we think it was mutually beneficial for both korea and china...we were able to avoid head on clash with china and preserve our cultural heritage during less stronger dynasty and china had one less thing to worry about... koreans are very proud of their heritage and chinese knew this from contact with koreans for thousands of years...they will fight till the end if a foreigners tried to rule them...korean were always governed by koreans...tributary state was diplomatic solution by both koreans and chinese to avoid full blown war...
and like i said before i dun care how chinese wanna interpret this "tributary state" but im pretty confident in saying that koreans were always ruled by koreans...only exception is the 36 years of japanese occupation



hmmm i dun noe wat u mean by large portion but majority of koguryo people's descendants are koreans...if not all...