I know khmer has many words similar with Lao/Thai brothers and sisters so I want to know some words in Khmer that is similar with the Vietnamese words in terms of pronounciation and meanings. I ask this since Vietnamese is in the Mon-Khmer language group (Which I think they shouldn't be). Any one know any?

i used to know a lot, but these are only the ones i can remember....

khmer/viet/english
kamap/ map/ fat
jao/ jao/ grandchild
bpa/ bpa/ dad
kaw/ kaw/ caramelized pork soup (?)
banh cheo/ banh xeo/ crepe
mi/ mi/ instant noodles

bpaa...i think it probably came from french/chinese influence on the khmer ? can't say much about viet. i use ou/bpook or oubpook.

baan cheo is definitely vietnamese word influence on khmer, and i like eating it sometimes. it's nice.

as for the mi, i think it's probably widely used in south east asia as the indonesian/malay has this in their vocabulary e.g. mee goreng noodle, so it's probably the vietnamese learnt the influence from cham people? it's highly possible. i'm probably expecting an attack on this from xigon.

i'm having banh cheo tomorrow!!! ^.^

yeah, a lot of asians use the word, mi for instant noodles. i've always wanted to try mee goreng. i hear it's better than mama and other instant noodle brands.

share some with me then xD, it's been ages i had some. i definitely want some.

classic mee goreng is alright


try mee goreng pedas, some people claim it's hot, but to me it's kind of sweetish



or mee goreng rendang, it's "hotter" than the one above.



or mee goreng satay, it tastes a bit satay but to me, it's a bit weak.



recommended to take each of these packet and try each and see which you like better.

i do eat mama sometimes, the yellow packet with artificial pork flavour. tomyumgoong sometimes, but not always.

thanks! i'll def. try them out whenever i go to the asian market.
i've never tried the tomyumgoong one either. there's this one that my bro always get from walgreens. idk the brand. i think it's pretty good.

mot hai ba bon nam sau

moi bee bay boun bram



Tay/Dai/Hand
Chung/Cherng/Leg
Mat/ Muk/Face
Toc/Sowk/Hair
Nam/Chnum/Year
Trau/Chlau/Cow
Tho/Thors/Rabbit
Chuot/Jut/Rat
Cho/Jaw/Dog
Con/Kuon/Child
Chien/Chieng/Fry

noyume, have u seen these in the asian market -
i'm eating those. i kind of like them.


supernovasp, those words "chlau", "thors", "joot", "jaw" are from buddhism's 12 cycle of animals, so it's no surprise vietnam has these words, i think.

and even the words may look similar in english phonetic writing, but the sounds are totally different, i imagine. jerrng, daai (hand), kbaal sok (hair) gown (child), twer chieng (fry), i doubt a viet would understand. i might be wrong. it's my assumption.

i thought go is cow, b'sai is rabbit, k'dawl is rat, and skai is dog? or are there more than one name for these animals?

nvm! *missed sovann's post*

it just says candyaddict.com

i checked with cambodian friends haha, it sounds very similar

btw the animals, they are considered native vietnamese words. we don't use it for buddhism stuff. they're the most basic viet words..

ah i see, supernovasp. the khmer animal words you listed were used for referring to the 12 animals cycle buddhism.
the basic khmer words for those animals would be like what noyume wrote - s'kai / ch'kai (dog), b'sai / tonsaay (rabbit), go (cow), k'dawl / kondo (rat).

noyume, probably the link doesn't work. here's another one.
the name is kasugai (fruit name inserted e.g. lychee, apple, peach) gummy. u like?

oh yeah, i've tried those before! they're pretty good!

Here are some more words I found on another older link. You decide. Were ancient Viets and Khmer one people before they splitted into two completely people today? Are the similarities in words between the two people coincidence or other reasons? You decide. However, remember this fact, just because it is remotely there is a connection between the ancient Viets and Khmer, they have now become completely different people.

Vietnamese Khmer English

Mot muy one
Hai pair two
Ba bei three
Bon boun four
Nam pram five
Chuot chuot rat
Trau/Tlau/Chau Chhluv ox
Cop Carl tiger
Tho Thos rabbit
Rong Rong Dragon
Cho Chaw dog
(con) ruồi ruoi fly
xoài: suai: mango
áo: aov: shirt
tay: dai: hand
cổ: co: neck
mặt: mok: face
chân: cheung: leg
du con: yu gong: gangster
sửa (xe): sua (lan): fix (car)
địt/du dit fu-k
Nam chhnam year
moi thmei new
nghiện (thuốc) phiện: nhien (ah) phien: addicted to opium
xúi: soi: unlucky
cắt: gat: to cut
chiên: jien: to fry
chua: chu: sour
đặt: dak: to put
cầm: canh: to hold
xang: sang: gasoline
hen: heng: luck (lucky)
hang: hang: shop
chat: jak: to stab
cep: kiep: to hold in place
lap lo: lap lo: to spy; clandestine
cai bop: ka-bop: purse
du ma kaduy mai vea motherfu-ker

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/lofiversio...p/t58801-0.html

@ noyume

i'm chewing one of those. i admit, it's kind of addictive. holy crap, there's like 15 small empty packets next to the keyboard. haha. sad.
by the way, is one of your parents come from svay rieng or nearby vietnam? i'm guessing based on your accent e.g. s'kai (dog) =p

Dog, rabbit, and rat is wrong for khmer.

Hey TheWiseGuy,

Supernovasp is right. Yes we Khmer do call dog as chor, rabbit as thos, and rat as jute. If you don't believe me recite the Khmer animal names in the Khmer zodiac, assuming you know the Khmer zodiac of course.

@ thewiseguy, it's right. =/

i dont think you know those words. when a new year come, we might say joul chnum jut(rat), jlov(cow), khal(tiger), thos(rabbit), etc based on the 12 animals cycle.

@ antibiotic, on the list you wrote, the ancient vietnamese words could be champa as we used to exchange words. i dont believe that the ancient vietnamese and khmers were one people as the ancient vietnamese/yue were from northern region. i assume probably the chams influence the vietnamese as they came southward. i could be wrong, however.

I like your theory very much, Sovann. Our Khmer ancestors were glorious people with far flung influences so anything is possible. Personally, I don't think Viets are related to the Khmer at all.

15? wow you eat a lot of candy like my brother! he can finish a big bag of gummy bears in less than an hr. lol.

my dad's from battambang and my mom's from kampot. i've always thought it was skai. lol. i'll ask my dad tom. how it's really pronounced. usually i pronounce things wrong. lol.

Thanks, antibiotic. The Chams are very similar to us Khmers in terms of words so that's why I suspect the linguists put Viet language in the Mon-Khmer family because of those words. They probably did not know that the Chams influenced those words in central Vietnam/southern Vietnam.
As for the Kaduay mae vea, that's more something like "up your mother pussy" instead, "joi mae vea" more like it haha funny cuss words.
In the markets in the provinces in Kampuchea, sometimes you might hear people cussing at each other. It's funny in a sense.


noyume, haha, if you pronounce words starting with CH as S, i would have definitely thought you would be from svay rieng (eastern cambodia). there's no correct way to pronounce things actually as i think each areas have their own funny way of pronouncing things.

jeez, your brother is more addicted to it than me. what's stopping me from eating all of those is that they are expensive. about 6 dollars for one bag. i have to save some for later enjoyment, haha. maybe u can send me some more packets stolen from your brother so i can continue enjoying.

Yeah, in Lao language we also use Mi/Mee for certain types of noodles or instant noodles.

Khua Mee = Lao caramelized noodle dish.



It's interesting how some countries prefer the S or X sound and others prefer to pronounce the same words with the CH sound.

Laotians and Viets seem to prefer S's and X's, whereas Khmers and Thais (central) prefer the CH sound. <-- just an observation.

i.e. Crepe = "Banh Xeo" (Viet and Lao), "Banh Cheo" (Khmer)
i.e. Elephant = "Xang" (Lao), "Chang" (Thai)
i.e. Northern Thai province = "Xieng Mai" (Lao), "Chiang Mai" (Thai)....it's interesting how the French actually called the place "Xieng Mai", as well.

i just asked my dad. he said that the correct way is ch'kai, since it's spelled like that in khmer script. but he said he's been used to saying it w/ an s ever since he was a kid.

$6 for one bag??? that's crazy! here it's like $2ish. well, maybe it depends on the size. the markets only have 1 size here. as for my bro, he eat any kind of candy and they usually come in those king size. lol.



ah, interesting tidbit there!

mập is a Southern Vietnamese dialect which came from Khmer. Northern Vietnamese use the word "béo" or "phì" for fat instead


This word is the same everywhere
ba in Southern Vietnamese
ba in Thai
pa pa in Cantonese

Northern Vietnamese uses: bố for father


There words are obviously from Vietnamese, borrowed by Khmer...or perhaps they were from French

In Hmong or Yao it's pte

I doubt this case though because Vietnamese t- came from s-, not from d-. And the Proto-Viet-Muong form for this was /saj/ (sound like say), which would discredit both dai and te from being its cognate. Viet /s/ doesn't come from /d/. If you want to look for a cognate with this word. Look for the ones that start with an s-


It's chân in Vietnamese.
Yao chiŋ.3 --- Thai ʒǝ:ŋ.A --- Khmer: ʒaǝŋ --- Proto-Sino-Tibetan: *ćok / *ćoŋ (ć is pronounced like ch) --- Naga *ʒVŋ 'foot' (Note how all the forms end with "-ng" except for the Vietnamese form with ends in "-n", but then there are many cases where -ng changes to -n from another language to Vietnamese)


The Khmer form is more similar to Chinese 貌 which reads mộc (mok ~ muk) in Sino-Vietnamese


Chinese 兔 thố


Chinese 鼠 shu with the glottal stop in the old form


Chinese 昆 kun, meaning descendant


Chinese 煎 jian <--- Middle Chinese cj́en (chien) <--- Old Chinese ćen

it's actually paw in thai, like the english pa.

i studied etymology in hs. every word for mother or father in every language dervived from the same language (a really old one, forgot what it's called); that's why the similarities. you may notice the "b", "p" sound for father in many languages, as well as the "m" sound for mothers.

Chinese 象 xiang4

One would asssume that there's a lot of lexical similarities... they ARE in the same language family...

According to some Vietnamese people here, "Viet is not a Mon-Khmer language".

Chinese 虎 hu <--- Old Chinese ghu with glottal stop



Chinese 兔 thố <--- Old Chinese thos

Chinese 龍 Long <--- Old Chinese rong


维虫
维 wei <--- Old Chinese *rwəi.


Fujianese sua


Chinese 襖 ao (meaning a short-sleeved upper garment...áo in Vietnamese means upper garment in general)



Proto-Tai-Zhaung *ɣo.A "neck, throat" (Ong Be: ko.2, Lakkia: ɦou.2, Siamese: gɔ.A, Lungchow: ko.2, Po-ai: ho.2)


Chinese 貌 muk or mao (mộc or mạo in Vietnamese


Yao chiŋ.3 --- Thai ʒǝ:ŋ.A --- Khmer: ʒaǝŋ --- Proto-Sino-Tibetan: *ćok / *ćoŋ (ć is pronounced like ch) --- Naga *ʒVŋ 'foot' (


Du côn is a Sino-Viet word. Khmer obviously borrowed this from Vietnamese.

This word looks recent...obviously Khmer borrowed from Vietnamese also


Thai: mai "new"


There's a Chinese word for both nghiện and phiện but I forgot


Chinese 祟 sui4 "bad luck, unlucky"


Chinese 割 *kāt "to cut"



Chinese 煎 jian to fry


Chinese 酸 *sur

Chinese 署shu <--- Old Chinese *da(ʔ)s


Proto-Tai-Zhuang: *kam.A "to hold" (Lakkia: kam.1, Biao: tsham.1, Siamese: kam.A, Lungchow: kam.1, Po-ai: kam.1)


This is a new Vietnamese word...Khmer obviously borrowed this from Vietnamese


I never see the word "hên" used in any formal Vietnamese writing, so it's probably a dialect from South Vietnam.
Nevertheless, there's the Chinese cognate 幸 heng (Cantonese) which means "luck"



Hàng is a Sino-Vietnamese word...Khmer borrowed this from Vietnamese or Chinese businessmen


chặt means "to chop, cut" not to stab. It's a cognate with Chinese 切 *chīt cut.
Proto-Sino-Tibetan: *ch[ē]t “to cut”; (Tibetan: zed broken off, damaged; Burmese: ćhać to cut in parts, LB *chit; Lushai: sāt (saʔ) to chop (with a dao), to cut, to hew; Lepcha: čít to split, as wood,to divide, to separate; Kiranti: *ʔcet to split)



what is this word? I don't understand it.


Khmer borrowed this word from Vietnamese...The original meaning of this word isn't "to spy", it's just a slang for spy.

The root of the word is "ló" which means "to appear", lấp is a kind of repetition of the word ló.

lấp ló means like to "to appear and disappear alternately"...and then it becomes a slang for "spying"


Obviously Khmer borrowed this from Vietnamese because it's from a French word

sorri

oh yeah? Many linguists are still debating over the classification of Vietnamese. What do you say about these linguists?

beside I'm a native Vietnamese speaker and I know much more about my language than you guys. I don't think you and other foreigners know a damn about my language to even talk about it.

Vietnamese should has its own group and not under Mon-Khmer.

Many foreign linguists are so ignorant that they use Sino-Vietnamese words to be cognates with Mon-Khmer. That tells me a lot about their knowledge of Vietnamese language.

Look at her get so worked at the mentioning of Vietnamese being classified under the Mon-Khmer language umbrella. Your prejudice is so obvious

SORRY. DID NOT MEAN TO STRIKE A NERVE LIKE I DID.

Hmmm, now I figure it out. Now I understand why a certain ethnic group remain forever foreigners despite the fact that they have lived in Cambodia for generations. There is simply no commonality between them and the Khmer people, period. I also now understand why the Chinese are always welcomed in Cambodia. It is because they are "related" at some linguistic level. So the so-called "cognates" that exist in both Khmer and Vietnamese are not really of the Vietnamese at all, but of the Chinese instead. Therefore, Chinese and Khmer have words that are similar. Now the puzzle is complete, at least for me. Regarding the Vietnamese, they are still the strangers to the Khmer.

The Chinese loan words are mainly from Teochew.

Sawan -

On the S and CH, those people who come from eastern provinces near Vietnam borders e.g SvayRieng tend to pronounce words starting with Ch into S.
It's probably an influence from the Viet that developed this accent. So a person from Svay Rieng province would probably say "Baan Seo" but that's a vietnamese word, so I can't say much on that word.
Chnum (year), S.R people might say S'num, and that's one I think of at the moment.
We have a lot of different accents in Kampuchea, that's why sometimes we can tell what province the person come from on the way speak and the words used.


Noyume - haha, probably your father had khmer friends from eastern cambodia, or khmer yuan friends in his village back in his time. Oh yeah, it's 6 bucks. I know it's crazy. you guys are lucky =/. we have 1 size too.

That old language you mention is probably Sanskrit. Even the French has the word Mae for Mother. And Pa for father.

Xigoncongchua -

About the word Bpa/baa/paa, in Kampuchea, the urban areas use the word "Pa" which is possibly influence from the French's "Papa/Pa" or Teochiu/Mandarin.
The proper word for father in Khmer would be Ou-bpook, or shortened to Bpook/Ou, depending. Same for Mae. Now, most people says Mak, Bpa, Mak, Bpa.
In Thailand, it is a similar case. The Thais use "Por" as a proper word for father.

"Dragon" and "Rabbit" would be pronounced "neak" and "tonsaay" in normal Khmer vocabulary.
"Roong" and "Thors" in Khmer would be used for the 12 animal cycle. The 12 Animal Cycle is probably influenced from the Chinese long time ago in the time of Angkor.

"New", the Thai probably borrowed and shortened "Thmey" to "Mey".

Fixing the car, I never seen that "Sua". I only heard of "ភ្ជាប" P'jeab.

"Heng" or "Luck", I only know "Somnaang".

And about the Gasoline, if you say that this word "xang" is a new vietnamese word, how can you say that Khmer borrow from Vietnamese? Don't say that without knowing Khmer language. It sounds something like "Sung" and "Sang" mixed. It's hard to say in this English script. ប្រេងសាំង or សាំង would be "brangsang", or shortened to "sang".

And about the "purse", "ka-pop", obviously Khmer did not borrow that from Viet, it's from the French in that colonist period.

I'm a native Khmer speaker, and I know much about my language. I don't think foreigners know a damn about my language to even talk about it. =/

Ironically enough I haven’t encountered a Vietnamese person who supports Vietnamese language being part of Mon-Khmer. Yet I encountered a lot of Khmers like you who always eager to make affiliation with Vietnamese. It just seems ridiculous, don’t you think? I mean based on physical appearance, Vietnamese look nowhere near Cambodian, they may look like Thai and Lao or some Filipino or some Southern Chinese, but not Cambodian. Their ancestors were from the Red River Delta in the North. I don’t see how Vietnamese language should be placed under Mon-Khmer because obviously our ancestors didn’t come from your people. Hence the Viet-Muong branch should be on its own and not under Mon-Khmer.

Prejudiced? I don’t think Vietnamese is anymore related to your people than to the Cham and Malay people. Why do want us to think that we are related to you when we’re so different? The closest relative to Vietnamese are the Muong minority, the Tay minority and the Nung minority in North Vietnam. These minorities have been there with the Vietnamese for thousands of years, they’re our closest relatives, their languages are tonal just like Vietnamese and the grammars in their language are also like Vietnamese grammar.

@Sovann: I don't know about your language, that's why I don't even say anything about where Khmer language should be placed. Some people aren't Vietnamese and don't know a damn about Vietnamese language but always talk like they know so much about it.
About the case of "new", it's not just Thai but some languages in the Tai-Zhaung branch have that word too, I just forgot.

Xang "gasoline" is a new concept, and if Vietnamese were to borrow it from anyone, it would be English, French, or Chinese, instead of Khmer. I don't think Khmer produce much gasoline to export to Vietnam so much that Vietnamese had to borrow that word from Khmer.

About the case of "Heng", since you don't know about it, I suspect that some Khmer borrowed it from the Cantonese or probably Teochew...Many of these words look like they recently entered the Khmer language because of the -ng ending (instead of -n ending) and -k ending (instead of the -t ending). It reminds me of Southern Vietnamese dialect because the Southern Vietnamese change all -t ending to -k ending, and -n ending to -ng ending. I'm thinking that these words entered Khmer language from the Southern Vietnamese. But that's just my assumption.

you guys are intermixing with us, better get use to the idea of being Mon-Khmer =)
because you are apart of South East Asia you should welcome Mon-Khmer heritage as well. Otherwise, your denying your roots.

Oh yeah Khmer are so eager to accept Vietnamese as anything to do with Mon-Khmer... Yeah we love you guys that much, wooh we are pro-viet accepting advocates all right... Yeah!!!..... Looks have nothing to do with language you idiot. Why do you always bring up looks in the discussion?

Uhh... Maybe I would have used the word biased but seeing as prejudice describes you more it was actually more fitting. Anyway you bring up such nonsense. What impact does genetics have on language? There are a great deal of scientific, technical, and geographical terms that Khmer have and still borrowed from French (Chemistry, Technology, Geography), and Sanskrit/Pali (Modern appliances). Does anyone try to relate French and Thai to ethnic Khmer people? No, because that is just plain stupid and ignorant.

2x post

Genetics doesn't always equate to speaking a language in the same family tree.


Since when have Khmers said that we're the most closely related ethnic group to Vietnamese? We may have said that we're related, but have never claimed to be as close as the Nung, Muong or Tay minorities either.

It's funny how for some words you say 'obviously borrowed from Vietnamese' but it seems more obvious that Khmers and Viets borrowed them from somewhere else. Cambodians have had contact with Chinese for centuries, it's more likely that as the Chinese traders came down a lot of words were borrowed into Khmer vocabulary. The French came and left a number of words that were borrowed into both Vietnamese and Khmer and yet you're saying 'it's obviously borrowed from Vietnamese'. Nice. For someone who's getting worked up over people who don't speak Vietnamese making comparisons between words in the Vietnamese and Khmer language you're making pretty bold statements about a language you don't speak. Khmer.

BTW, those words for animals are wrong. Those words are only used when we're talking about the lunar cycle. No one ever calls a dog chaw in Khmer.

I did learn some similar words looking at a sign at my hairdresser though.

Cat Toc - Kat Sok - Hair Cut
Hot Toc - Ot Sok - Perm Hair

Lol

I'm glad you realized this I knew exactly what you were going to say and I was bailing you to say them.
The awkward thing is only a tiny fraction of Vietnamese language is similar to Khmer yet it's under Mon-Khmer. The grammar of the two aren't similar either. And on the phonology field, Khmer isn't tonal and its word structures are also different from Vietnamese words structure. I don't know what the French were thinking 150 years ago when they classified Vietnamese under Mon-Khmer.


Hm…Neither French nor Indian were under Mon-Khmer, why should Vietnamese be? Vietnamese should be on its own branch with the Muong language.

please restrain yourself from calling the princess names I don't want to use my machete:



I'm too lazy to debate these days...

I think I was talking about the original Vietnamese from the Red River Delta

probably I was wrong in some case about the borrowing but there are many very obvious cases because they were straight out from the Southern Vietnamese dialect, like: Du Côn ---> Du Công, Chiên ---> Chieng, chặt ---> chak, hen ---> heng

You notice how the /n/ ending was changed to /ng/ ending and /t/ ending was changed to /k/ ending? That's a characteristic developed in Southern Vietnamese probably two or three hundreds years ago. Nowadays, all /t/ and /n/ endings are lost in Southern Vietnamese. These Southern Vietnamese must have influenced the Khmer and other minorities in South Vietnam.

You can side up with the Chinese I don't care. Vietnamese isn't a Sinitic language either. It has some Sinitic elements but not Sinitic nevertheless. There should be new independent Vietic branch for Vietnamese.