For decades, Chinese have been targeted just because they are Chinese. For decades, Chinese in Indon have been suffering all kinds of evil things such as lootings, rapings, killings, scapegoatings, blackmailling, insults, racist discrimination, done by Indon government, supported by Indon military/police, happily justified/supported by Indon people.
Reading many writings in this forum, I always wonder... Should Chinese loyal to a kind of people/country/government who treat them badly for decades, just because Chinese have different color of skin than Indon's?
In my opinion, Chinese should not loyal to Indon.
Full Version: Should Chinese loyal to Indonesia?
^^In my opinion, Chinese should be loyal to Indonesia!!.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
Gah Kurang kerjaan lu ngereply ke dia.
QUOTE(skyisdalimit @ Jun 16 2008, 02:36 AM) [snapback]3757359[/snapback]
^^In my opinion, Chinese should be loyal to Indonesia!!.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
bless your soul,my bruddha.
Should Chinese loyal to Indonesia?
Why should they, if their heart do not belong to Indonesia?
Why should they, if their heart do not belong to Indonesia?
well,
recently people have different perception
about the definition of "LOYAL"
there is difference between loyal and love.
I believe most of people including minority love Indonesia.
but loyal?
its all relative, depends in what current situation there,
loyal for me is close to patriotism. I was ..., but now I'm losing it ...
definition loyal has being misused many times, by "several People up there",
to force their "thought and ideology" to other people.
I am tired of that ....
its overdone.
as chinese, its up to you, but I know some chinese changed become US citizen ...
yet, still have their heart for Indonesia, trying hard to promote, and do something for Indonesian goodness, with their own way.
much better than useless violent "loyal" people in Indonesia, do nothing except destruction and corruption.
------------
by the way
as for technical reason,
loyal to the rule still have to applied like it or not.
what ever citizen you are.
its a LAW.
recently people have different perception
about the definition of "LOYAL"
there is difference between loyal and love.
I believe most of people including minority love Indonesia.
but loyal?
its all relative, depends in what current situation there,
loyal for me is close to patriotism. I was ..., but now I'm losing it ...
definition loyal has being misused many times, by "several People up there",
to force their "thought and ideology" to other people.
I am tired of that ....
its overdone.
as chinese, its up to you, but I know some chinese changed become US citizen ...
yet, still have their heart for Indonesia, trying hard to promote, and do something for Indonesian goodness, with their own way.
much better than useless violent "loyal" people in Indonesia, do nothing except destruction and corruption.
------------
by the way
as for technical reason,
loyal to the rule still have to applied like it or not.
what ever citizen you are.
its a LAW.
^^ yeah. So, i guess we are going to see you holding a canadian passport soon. hahahaha.
^ well, its not important for me right now ...
as long as it doesn't hurt holding Indonesian passport, why should I change ?
to let you know
politics is fickle it change every time.
as long as it doesn't hurt holding Indonesian passport, why should I change ?
to let you know
politics is fickle it change every time.
I'm still Loyal........I still love them. Although some hate me....It doesn't matter if some don;t like you because of what you are.....You know you're doing a good cause.
^^ maksud lo?
I miss my chance being loyal to Indonesia; now I am left homesick.
I'm sorry but is it true that the 1998 Indonesian riot were anti-chinese riot ? If so how come you guys still love Indonesia after all those crap ~ I have few Indonesian friends and they have mixed opinion about this matter, I guess this is a sensitive issue for chinese indonesian.
No offense to indonesian, I as a chinese holding PRC passport do not consider chinese indonesian as my brothers just because they are chinese, but as a fellow humans ~ its just sick and uncivilized to see this kind of barbaric behavior ~ so I need information and confirmation before accusing some group of people is this event true:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhru48BS82k
No offense to indonesian, I as a chinese holding PRC passport do not consider chinese indonesian as my brothers just because they are chinese, but as a fellow humans ~ its just sick and uncivilized to see this kind of barbaric behavior ~ so I need information and confirmation before accusing some group of people is this event true:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhru48BS82k
QUOTE(Darkblade @ Jun 19 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]3764183[/snapback]
I'm sorry but is it true that the 1998 Indonesian riot were anti-chinese riot ? If so how come you guys still love Indonesia after all those crap ~ I have few Indonesian friends and they have mixed opinion about this matter, I guess this is a sensitive issue for chinese indonesian.
No offense to indonesian, I as a chinese holding PRC passport do not consider chinese indonesian as my brothers just because they are chinese, but as a fellow humans ~ its just sick and uncivilized to see this kind of barbaric behavior ~ so I need information and confirmation before accusing some group of people is this event true:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhru48BS82k
Millions Chinese were wasted under CCP; how come you still love China?
No offense to indonesian, I as a chinese holding PRC passport do not consider chinese indonesian as my brothers just because they are chinese, but as a fellow humans ~ its just sick and uncivilized to see this kind of barbaric behavior ~ so I need information and confirmation before accusing some group of people is this event true:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhru48BS82k
It's different.
QUOTE(LaoShare @ Jun 20 2008, 01:18 AM) [snapback]3764214[/snapback]
Millions Chinese were wasted under CCP; how come you still love China?
Because China is the homeland of my ancestors from generations to generations ~ simple. My clan have been living there for 3000-5000 years, the question why shouldn't I love China ? I wont sacrifice my citizenship for any nation ~ but thats because my family have economic sector covered already, probably different case if they are under poverty.
now now its kinda rude to answer a question with another question before answering the first dont you think ? so tell me more about the 1998 riot please
^The riots was incited because of the Asian economic crisis and at that time, all Chinese Indonesians were viewed as being filthy rich so we were targeted....I was still a kiddo at that time So I won't know much. I really think Chinese have always been targeted in times of chaos e.g the riots that happen in on pacific island country ( Forgot the name, not Fiji) Chinese shops were being targeted.
The reasons why I still love Indonesia are almost the same as your reasons to still love China, both our countries have done horrible things to it;s people but in the end no one's perfect.
We may be Chinese but Indonesia is our country. btw I found out recently, that my granddad and grandma from my mum's side was actually born in China...and i guess i still have long lost relatives there, really like to find them out.
touche..........
The reasons why I still love Indonesia are almost the same as your reasons to still love China, both our countries have done horrible things to it;s people but in the end no one's perfect.
We may be Chinese but Indonesia is our country. btw I found out recently, that my granddad and grandma from my mum's side was actually born in China...and i guess i still have long lost relatives there, really like to find them out.
QUOTE
Millions Chinese were wasted under CCP; how come you still love China?
touche..........
QUOTE(Darkblade @ Jun 19 2008, 11:07 PM) [snapback]3764296[/snapback]
Because China is the homeland of my ancestors from generations to generations ~ simple. My clan have been living there for 3000-5000 years, the question why shouldn't I love China ? I wont sacrifice my citizenship for any nation ~ but thats because my family have economic sector covered already, probably different case if they are under poverty.
now now its kinda rude to answer a question with another question before answering the first dont you think ? so tell me more about the 1998 riot please
Where do you live now? How old when you left China and came to this new home? (I will answer your questions later.) now now its kinda rude to answer a question with another question before answering the first dont you think ? so tell me more about the 1998 riot please
QUOTE(LaoShare @ Jun 20 2008, 10:04 AM) [snapback]3764876[/snapback]
Where do you live now? How old when you left China and came to this new home? (I will answer your questions later.)
US ? I was 17, now I'm 23 ~
Was the way the Chinese were treated wrong? Yes.
Is it something to be ashamed of? Yes.
Is there anything that's being done about it? Hell yeah.
I think Indonesia can be damn proud of what has been achieved in the last 10 years.
Is it something to be ashamed of? Yes.
Is there anything that's being done about it? Hell yeah.
I think Indonesia can be damn proud of what has been achieved in the last 10 years.
QUOTE(LaoShare @ Jun 20 2008, 01:18 AM) [snapback]3764214[/snapback]
Millions Chinese were wasted under CCP; how come you still love China?
Chinese in China die usually for a new power to take the place of a failing one. hence the change in dynasty's or unity of the country. haven't you ever seen Hero lmao. id love to see you try and deny the results the successful takeovers achieved, especially the CCP. thats not even to say the opposing side couldnt do stuff as well. Taiwan is pretty successful. point is its for the greater good. Chinese in Indonesia died cuz some niggas got jealous and couldn't compete.
QUOTE(Mid-Night_Sun @ Jun 21 2008, 06:10 AM) [snapback]3765457[/snapback]
Chinese in China die usually for a new power to take the place of a failing one. hence the change in dynasty's or unity of the country. haven't you ever seen Hero lmao. id love to see you try and deny the results the successful takeovers achieved, especially the CCP. thats not even to say the opposing side couldnt do stuff as well. Taiwan is pretty successful. point is its for the greater good. Chinese in Indonesia died cuz some niggas got jealous and couldn't compete.
WRONG!!! The old government made Chinese as scapegoat and they tried to shift their failure to Chinese. It's all about politics dude.
China should invade indon and take out those punks and establish a puppet government and permanent military bases there. Then mass-immigrate some of the chinese in the mainland there.
well, it will happen if the savages try to pull the same stunt again.
well, it will happen if the savages try to pull the same stunt again.
QUOTE(drakuli @ Jun 21 2008, 10:44 PM) [snapback]3766975[/snapback]
WRONG!!! The old government made Chinese as scapegoat and they tried to shift their failure to Chinese. It's all about politics dude.
Yes, you're right.
There are too many ethnic Chinese living in SE Asia.
It is very very easy to find poor ethnic Chinese anywhere.
Thank you.
^^ I think you've misunderstood drakuli. The Government tried to blame the chinese as the reasons for the government failure because majority of them are rich. The Old government accused the chinese for corruptions. If we are talking about the number of poor ppl, the chinese will be outnumbered by the number of the poor local ppl.
QUOTE(Darkblade @ Jun 20 2008, 09:42 AM) [snapback]3765064[/snapback]
US ? I was 17, now I'm 23 ~
Would you agree that your 1st love is China mainly because that land raised and nourished you in your youthful years?
QUOTE(LaoShare @ Jun 22 2008, 10:52 AM) [snapback]3768985[/snapback]
Would you agree that your 1st love is China mainly because that land raised and nourished you in your youthful years?
Thats apparently one of the 'psychological' reason ~ you will love the land where you were raised ~ lol, this applies to anyone unless their homecountry is really crude and hostile. I presume chinese indonesian have quite of a nice life there despite of the 'troubles'.
QUOTE(Darkblade @ Jun 22 2008, 12:05 PM) [snapback]3769190[/snapback]
Thats apparently one of the 'psychological' reason ~ you will love the land where you were raised ~ lol, this applies to anyone unless their homecountry is really crude and hostile. I presume chinese indonesian have quite of a nice life there despite of the 'troubles'.
It is not 'psychological' reason but should be the only reason. It is the same reason how poor and bad China was, millions of Chinese (in or out of China) included me are still faithful and loyal to China.
^^ what are your ethnicity ? are you a real lao ? or just an immigrant?
QUOTE(LaoShare @ Jun 22 2008, 04:00 PM) [snapback]3769275[/snapback]
It is not 'psychological' reason but should be the only reason. It is the same reason how poor and bad China was, millions of Chinese (in or out of China) included me are still faithful and loyal to China.
Then we are back to my question which you havent answered yet ~ why do chinese indonesian still stay in Indonesia even though they are still faithful and loyal to China and the fact that Indonesian doesnt like them because they are still loyal to China ~ even though they are born and raised in Indonesia ? Does the 'homeland' factor affect them also ?
QUOTE(Darkblade @ Jun 23 2008, 12:55 PM) [snapback]3770248[/snapback]
Then we are back to my question which you havent answered yet ~ why do chinese indonesian still stay in Indonesia even though they are still faithful and loyal to China and the fact that Indonesian doesnt like them because they are still loyal to China ~ even though they are born and raised in Indonesia ? Does the 'homeland' factor affect them also ?
err, how can you tell that Indonesian Chinese are loyal to PRC???
As far as I know, most of them more loyal to Indonesia than PRC. 80-90% of my friends are like that. And some are more pragmatic, they are loyal to money, wherever they can get the money, haha. None of my chinese friends loyal to PRC.
QUOTE(drakuli @ Jun 21 2008, 12:44 PM) [snapback]3766975[/snapback]
WRONG!!! The old government made Chinese as scapegoat and they tried to shift their failure to Chinese. It's all about politics dude.
and how did they do that? this?
"The Government tried to blame the chinese as the reasons for the government failure because majority of them are rich. The Old government accused the chinese for corruptions."
somebody, for w/e reason, targeted Chinese because they are rich. if thats not jealousy, then its something closely related. also, if its wealth that was the reason, then my competition point is also valid. if another group competed better and was more rich than Chinese, would they not be the targets then?
QUOTE(Mid-Night_Sun @ Jun 23 2008, 08:05 PM) [snapback]3770688[/snapback]
and how did they do that? this?
"The Government tried to blame the chinese as the reasons for the government failure because majority of them are rich. The Old government accused the chinese for corruptions."
somebody, for w/e reason, targeted Chinese because they are rich. if thats not jealousy, then its something closely related. also, if its wealth that was the reason, then my competition point is also valid. if another group competed better and was more rich than Chinese, would they not be the targets then?
"The Government tried to blame the chinese as the reasons for the government failure because majority of them are rich. The Old government accused the chinese for corruptions."
somebody, for w/e reason, targeted Chinese because they are rich. if thats not jealousy, then its something closely related. also, if its wealth that was the reason, then my competition point is also valid. if another group competed better and was more rich than Chinese, would they not be the targets then?
Not really. Indian ethnics in Indonesia also quiet successful. However they are not targeted though. Their numbers also much smaller but very rich. Since their numbers is small, the regime thought they were not significant enough to incite the hatred. Moreover, only chinese are well spread in all part of the country, while indian ethnics are mainly staying in Java or Sumatra.
The regime had systematic way to put the bad stigma to chinese. They gave lots of privileges, contracts, and "protection" to chinese conglomerates and businessmen in return of bribe. Meanwhile they were saying to other ethnics that chinese were bad, treacherous, etc. So there were constant distrust among chinese and other ethnics. At the end, whenever something wrong they can easily pick someone to blame.
QUOTE(drakuli @ Jun 23 2008, 09:19 AM) [snapback]3770712[/snapback]
Not really. Indian ethnics in Indonesia also quiet successful. However they are not targeted though. Their numbers also much smaller but very rich. Since their numbers is small, the regime thought they were not significant enough to incite the hatred. Moreover, only chinese are well spread in all part of the country, while indian ethnics are mainly staying in Java or Sumatra.
The regime had systematic way to put the bad stigma to chinese. They gave lots of privileges, contracts, and "protection" to chinese conglomerates and businessmen in return of bribe. Meanwhile they were saying to other ethnics that chinese were bad, treacherous, etc. So there were constant distrust among chinese and other ethnics. At the end, whenever something wrong they can easily pick someone to blame.
The regime had systematic way to put the bad stigma to chinese. They gave lots of privileges, contracts, and "protection" to chinese conglomerates and businessmen in return of bribe. Meanwhile they were saying to other ethnics that chinese were bad, treacherous, etc. So there were constant distrust among chinese and other ethnics. At the end, whenever something wrong they can easily pick someone to blame.
all i see there is stuff that would create jealousy.
wealth as well as numbers can be covered under competition. so ill be more specific, wealth and numbers. excludes indians right?
far as i can tell, i still dont see why my comment was wrong. i still see better competition, i still see jealousy. and i found it in your post, not my @$$.
My Loyalty lies with Indonesia....but if China somehow gets attacked I will try and help them. After all they're still my brothers and sisters.
In my humble opinion.
The ethnic Indian and Middle-Eastern minorities in Indonesia generally are rich and successful.
Majority of them are richer than the ethnic Chinese generally, although the numbers are far smaller than ethnic Chinese.
The exception for the ethnic Chinese billionaries, but still,
it is very very easy to find poor ethnic Chinese anywhere & anytime.
Many of them are even poorer than poor locals. Suffering in starvation etc.
So the gap between the middle class and the poor in ethnic Chinese group is very huge.
And so it is very very easy to find rich & successcul locals, better than ethnic Chinese.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...t=0&start=0
Please correct me if i wrong.
Thank you, everyone.
The ethnic Indian and Middle-Eastern minorities in Indonesia generally are rich and successful.
Majority of them are richer than the ethnic Chinese generally, although the numbers are far smaller than ethnic Chinese.
The exception for the ethnic Chinese billionaries, but still,
it is very very easy to find poor ethnic Chinese anywhere & anytime.
Many of them are even poorer than poor locals. Suffering in starvation etc.
So the gap between the middle class and the poor in ethnic Chinese group is very huge.
And so it is very very easy to find rich & successcul locals, better than ethnic Chinese.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...t=0&start=0
Please correct me if i wrong.
Thank you, everyone.
QUOTE(drakuli @ Jun 23 2008, 07:57 AM) [snapback]3770681[/snapback]
err, how can you tell that Indonesian Chinese are loyal to PRC???
As far as I know, most of them more loyal to Indonesia than PRC. 80-90% of my friends are like that. And some are more pragmatic, they are loyal to money, wherever they can get the money, haha. None of my chinese friends loyal to PRC.
As far as I know, most of them more loyal to Indonesia than PRC. 80-90% of my friends are like that. And some are more pragmatic, they are loyal to money, wherever they can get the money, haha. None of my chinese friends loyal to PRC.
Look at laoshare's post ~
You should be loyal to your country to stay there, afterall. I find it ironic for people that STAY AND LIVE in a country they hate/whine about ~ they can always leave the country if they dont like it.
^you haven't meet Londoh.....he's an AF-er.
lives in Indonesia but hate Indonesians......he's dutch i think.
lives in Indonesia but hate Indonesians......he's dutch i think.
QUOTE(Darkblade @ Jun 22 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]3770248[/snapback]
Then we are back to my question which you havent answered yet ~ why do chinese indonesian still stay in Indonesia even though they are still faithful and loyal to China and the fact that Indonesian doesnt like them because they are still loyal to China ~ even though they are born and raised in Indonesia ? Does the 'homeland' factor affect them also ?
To further any more discussion on this topic, I like to make clear:1. The majority of Indonesian does not hate Chinese.
2. There are no conflicts to love or loyal 2 or more countries, if we decide to be a blessing or be a peacemaker.
They can put their loyalty wherever they pleased....
Its a free country.
Unless they start to become spy or agent, serving for foreign interest on Indonesian expense.....
Hey, that doesn't have to be chinese to do that....
Its a free country.
Unless they start to become spy or agent, serving for foreign interest on Indonesian expense.....
Hey, that doesn't have to be chinese to do that....
QUOTE(skyisdalimit @ Jun 16 2008, 02:36 AM) [snapback]3757359[/snapback]
^^In my opinion, Chinese should be loyal to Indonesia!!.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
If Chinese come to Indon, and many of them were born, raised and grow up in Indon, why Indons still badly treat Chinese as not part of Indon? Racism? If Chinese come to Indon because difficult situation in China, it is Chinese problem. It has nothing to do/no relation with whether Chinese should loyal to Indon after Indons racistly treat Chinese for decades.
Eventhough Chinese were born, raised and grow up in Indon, that is still not a strong reason for Chinese to loyal to Indon, if Chinese are badly treated by Indon. It is just like an employee who work in a company. If the company racistly treat the employee, why should the employee loyal to the company? It is that simple !
special gift for you,
QUOTE(skyisdalimit @ Jun 16 2008, 02:36 AM) [snapback]3757359[/snapback]
^^In my opinion, Chinese should be loyal to Indonesia!!.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
First of all, we, the chinese arent all treated with evilish treatements. What have you written may only based on what you might read or listen. You might not even have experienced such horrible things being practised on you. Secondly, I assumed that you are a chinese. As a chinese, you might have grown up in an enviroment of "anti-native". Your parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents or ancestors might have rarely or often condemning, criticizing and insulting the "Indons". With such environment and attitude, a naive boy will be easily provoked, influenced and grew with hostility towards a certain group of people. What can you expect from a naive boy ? He doesnt possess strong conscience and maturity to filter out the things that he heard, especially from their parents and other older family members. This type of situation makes the reproduction of hostile generation continues. Perhaps only the ancestors that being treated horribly, but the hatred, anger, fury and vengeance being passed down to their descendants. Hence making them in doubt to be loyal to the land which have raised them. Thirdly, the chinese here are majority not the first generation that came from mainland, China. They are 3rd, 4th, 5th,... generations. So, they were born, raised and grew up in this bloody land!!, Indonesia. So I think, like or don't like this is their homeland. The land that has protected them from the hardship that their ancestors tried to escape when they stepped their feet onto this archipelago. Hence, do the chinese owe to this land ? Then shouldn't them be loyal to it ?
However, we can't deny the fact that these poor treatments towards the chinese do exist. In the past, during Soeharto regime, the chinese were definitely treated in an unpleasant way. We have less freedom and discriminated in front of the law. We need to show the letter that stated we are the citizens of RI. Without that letter, the chinese cant apply for credit from banks, cant make a pasport, etc. But, it was the past. Now, the time has changed. The situation had improved tremendously compared to decades ago.
To conclude, the chinese shall be grateful. Their ancestors had opted to emigrate and came to indonesia to search for a better life for their descendants. And we all have bad times. But definitely we cant forget the sweet times we have here just because of that little unpleasant moments. My opinion is don't forget your root, chinese, but be loyal and remember the place that has shaded you in time of crisis and hardship.
with love,
skyisdalimit.
LOLOL.
I feel confused reading your letter above (in bold and bigger font size).
I should clarify your statements because I believe yours are not true.
From my observations, all Chinese (not just their ancestors/grandparents/parents/aunts/so on) are being racistly treated by Indons. Racist riots in May 1998 is a legitimate examples of racism in Indon. All Chinese, including Indons who look like Chinese, were attacked by Indons everywhere all over Indon. And until now, 10 years later, not a single rapist have been detained by Police. Not a single masterminders of the racist riots have been put into the court. It is very clear that Indons have no intention to protect Chinese. If those racist rioters are not put into justice, Chinese will be attacked again in the future. Everybody will think that it is easy to racistly attack Chinese in Indon without punishment at all.
Secondly, you said that young Chinese grow up in environment of "anti - native". I believe you twist the facts. It is not young Chinese who grow up in racist environment. On the contrary, it is Indons (all ages) who grow up in "anti - Chinese" environment. It is Indons who attack Chinese, not Chinese who attack Indons.
Third, Indon term is not an insult for Indonesians. On the contrary, we Indons who feel inferior because Indon term means Malays. We want to be called Indo, because Indo term means Indonesian who has white people blood. We adore white people so we want to be called Indo. On the contrary, we always consider "Malay" is lower class than white people. That's why in our country, most women buy "whitening stuff" to make their skin look white, not brown. We want to look like white people.
You should not twist the facts in your statements
^^^ We we we we we we...?!
Stop acting as if you're Indonesian you despicable troll.
STFU Otong II
Go back to your home planet and inseminate cattle there....
Stop acting as if you're Indonesian you despicable troll.
STFU Otong II
Go back to your home planet and inseminate cattle there....
^^ inseminate cattle there... LMAO. two thumbs up for you dude.
@ petrus = In my honest and thoughtful opinion, I think you are the one that in dire needs to have those whitening products available in the market to bleach your brown @$$. I know you have those brown @$$.
@ petrus = In my honest and thoughtful opinion, I think you are the one that in dire needs to have those whitening products available in the market to bleach your brown @$$. I know you have those brown @$$.
...
^Hey budak degil....
Tak penat kau lepak kat sini....?
Saya 'nak baca ayat kursi biar terbakar anus korang...
Tak penat kau lepak kat sini....?
Saya 'nak baca ayat kursi biar terbakar anus korang...
@Petrus
Our ancestors have a choice to relocate; why they choose to stay?
QUOTE
Their ancestors come to Indon to get a better live by working very very hard. Those Chinese dont get free money from Indon government. They earn their money by doing their works.
Sure we work very very hard; so hard that some of us forget that we were living in Indonesia and not China. Our ancestors have a choice to relocate; why they choose to stay?
QUOTE
I don't think Chinese should be grateful to live in Indon.
So who are you going to be grateful to?
QUOTE(Otong @ Jun 13 2008, 06:46 PM) [snapback]3753174[/snapback]
Indon
Indon
Indon
Indon
Indon's?
Indon.
Indon
Indon
Indon
Indon's?
Indon.
i think we should kill all indons...
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