uhm actually they did invade one more time..

Rememebr Nguyen Hue and Dong Da

I'm not good at remembering old history - i.e. military history, to say the least! I'd rather look at achievements in art, architecture, litterature, etc... Nguyễn Trãi was really somebody, brave and intelligent, and all! he was one to have used extensively chữ Nôm, was betrayed by Lê Lợi (kings are all bad! so was Chinese Chu Nguyên Chương (Zhu Yuan Zhang))...

But anyway! Nguyễn An, the Vietnamese chief-architect of Beijing has helped moving their commanding centre farther North... Can we say he's also a Vietnamese hero in his own way???

Only Pagodas, which are Buddhist symbols and religious buildings are Indian influenced (In case you haven't notcied Chinese people don't live in pagodas). I'm sure the Taj Mahal looks like the Forbidden city . You're trying to make it sound like Chinese are incapable of creating their own architecture when clearly that is not the case. Chinese architecture developed along side India's and is distinctly different. Wooden beams, lacquer, ceramic tiles, curved roofs, wooden locks, principle of feng shui, etc are quite Chinese.

Hmm ... Trần Nguyên Hãn was not a friend of Nguyễn Trãi !!!! lol
He was grand father of Nguyễn Trãi. (Trần Nguyên Hãn là ông ngoại của Nguyễn Trãi.)

I guess I made a mistake. Nguyễn Trãi is grandson of Trần Nguyên Ðán, not Trần Nguyên Hãn. Sorry Mr. Johan

I thought that also! Because Lê Lợi bức tử Trần Nguyên Hãn, who was a valiant companion of Nguyễn Trãi in the battles... so TNH couldn't be that old!
EDIT: đúng ra, Trần Nguyên Hãn là người em bên họ ngoại của Nguyễn Trãi
(Trần Nguyên Hãn là ...cháu nội của Trần Nguyên Đán)

That period seemed to have been a very harsh but creative period? All our intellectuals were sent to China, including Nguyễn Trãi's father.

I forgot there was Đông Đô (Thăng Long) and Tây Đô (Lam Kinh), and that the latter was Lê Lợi's creation. Beside that, he is one horrible king, for he later betrayed many of his former companions and their families.

No, he wouldn't be a Vietnamese hero at all. It's not like he built Hue or Hanoi or something. He helped the Chinese build Beijing. He's more of a Chinese hero of Vietnamese descent, since he helped the Chinese more, unless he had some achievements in Vietnam i don't know of.

And what did Nguyen Trai do, and supposedly all the intellectuals who were sent to Beijing? They should've stayed and help VIETNAM instead of China. Just my opinion, but i guess they couldn't help it, considering they were probably either forced over there or sent over as tribute or something.

Well! If you don't know who Nguyễn Trãi is, then you don't know Việt Nam at all!

Hahaha he was the brightest Vietnamese of all times... Việt Nam wouldn't be Việt Nam without him... read something, here in English :

http://www.limsi.fr/Recherche/CIG/engtrai.htm

His name sounds familiar, but i can't associate him with any achievements. I need to refresh my Viet history

u know what.. it costs money to build those complex buildings..
i don't think vietnam have that kinda money

Doesn't change the fact his help would've still been a leg up. Plus, i do think we had the funds. It's just the smaller countries are held back by China. I heard back in the day when they were building the Korean palace, they wanted to make it equal in size to the forbidden palace or something. 9999 rooms or something like that, but China objected and they made it 999 instead.

I don't doubt Vietnam. Remember, these guys are some of the richest and most powerful people in the country (being the royal family it makes sense), with those funds they can build whatever they want. Sometimes they just don't want to.

oh really, if u think vietnam got that kinda money, why don't they build 999????? i thought korean palace are copied from tang palace..

Sometimes they don't want to...

Honestly i don't know how many rooms the palaces in Vietnam have. Maybe we do have 999. Do you know how many we have?

Plus, the Viet emperor doesn't have as many concubines as the Chinese ones have. We don't need the room, we're more realistic. How many concubines does the Chinese emperor in stories have. 2000 or something, i bet most of them stay virgin. The Chinese guys have to house those women. I think Viet emperor has like around 10 concubines or something, having 9999 rooms like China does is like fricken having 9900 EMPTY rooms. It's logical though isn't it? Who the heck would live there?

Korean palaces are smaller. I read somewhere that they wanted to make it JUST AS BIG, but the Chinese emperor OBJECTED to it so they made it smaller.

i think u guys didn't start to build Hue after 1800 and i didn't know vietnam have king and queen

There are older palaces, Hue is only one of the places where the Viet imperial family was located. Hue is not the ONLY palace Vietnam has.

I don't know, i always though Hue was a bit older than just being built around 1800. I'm not a Viet history buff when it comes to the palaces and when they were built and such.

And we've been having emperors for a thousand years already...

hue was probably built around 1800, because the buildings have like french influence kinda..

How many rooms are there? How big is it? Like i was saying earlier, i'm not a palace history buff. So i'm kind of curious.

[quote=Clean,Aug 29 2004, 12:08 AM] [quote=福州市长,Aug 28 2004, 11:06 PM] [quote=Clean,Aug 29 2004, 12:05 AM] [quote=福州市长,Aug 28 2004, 10:59 PM] [quote=Clean,Aug 28 2004, 11:53 PM] [quote=福州市长,Aug 28 2004, 10:36 PM] [quote=Clean,Aug 28 2004, 09:32 PM] [quote=Johannjs,Aug 28 2004, 06:34 PM] [quote=supernovasp,Aug 29 2004, 02:17 AM][quote=Johannjs,Aug 28 2004, 07:16 PM] [quote=supernovasp,Aug 29 2004, 01:58 AM] 1407: Chinese occupation Ming.
1428: After his victory against the Chinese armies, with the aid of Nguyen Trai, Le Loi begins the second Le dynasty, which sees further annexions in the South.

You forgot LE LOI ALREADY? [/quote]
Ming Chen Zu
(1,403 – 1,425 A.D.)

Death of Tamerlane; Mongol Empire disintegrated (1,405 A.D.)

Seven voyages of Zheng He to the South (1,405 – 1,433 A.D.), reaching as far as the east coast of Africa. Sent messengers to Japan and occupied Vietnam (1,406 A.D.). Constructed Dong (East ) Chang (1,420 A.D.). Moved to Beijing (1,420 A.D.)

=========

So it was at that time Beijing was constructed. I mean, after that, they did not invade Vietnam any more !

I dislike Le Loi, because I prefer a truer hero: Nguyễn Trãi, and his friend Trần Nguyên Hãn (you know, the statue in front of the Bến Thành central market). [/quote]
uhm actually they did invade one more time..

Rememebr Nguyen Hue and Dong Da [/quote]
I'm not good at remembering old history - i.e. military history, to say the least! I'd rather look at achievements in art, architecture, litterature, etc... Nguyễn Trãi was really somebody, brave and intelligent, and all! he was one to have used extensively chữ Nôm, was betrayed by Lê Lợi (kings are all bad! so was Chinese Chu Nguyên Chương (Zhu Yuan Zhang))...

But anyway! Nguyễn An, the Vietnamese chief-architect of Beijing has helped moving their commanding centre farther North... Can we say he's also a Vietnamese hero in his own way??? [/quote]
No, he wouldn't be a Vietnamese hero at all. It's not like he built Hue or Hanoi or something. He helped the Chinese build Beijing. He's more of a Chinese hero of Vietnamese descent, since he helped the Chinese more, unless he had some achievements in Vietnam i don't know of.

And what did Nguyen Trai do, and supposedly all the intellectuals who were sent to Beijing? They should've stayed and help VIETNAM instead of China. Just my opinion, but i guess they couldn't help it, considering they were probably either forced over there or sent over as tribute or something. [/quote]
u know what.. it costs money to build those complex buildings..
i don't think vietnam have that kinda money [/quote]
Doesn't change the fact his help would've still been a leg up. Plus, i do think we had the funds. It's just the smaller countries are held back by China. I heard back in the day when they were building the Korean palace, they wanted to make it equal in size to the forbidden palace or something. 9999 rooms or something like that, but China objected and they made it 999 instead.

I don't doubt Vietnam. [/quote]
oh really, if u think vietnam got that kinda money, why don't they build 999????? i thought korean palace are copied from tang palace.. [/quote]
Sometimes they don't want to...

Honestly i don't know how many rooms the palaces in Vietnam have. Maybe we do have 999. Do you know how many we have?

Plus, the Viet emperor doesn't have as many concubines as the Chinese ones have. We don't need the room, we're more realistic. How many concubines does the Chinese emperor in stories have. 2000 or something, i bet most of them stay virgin. The Chinese guys have to house those women. I think Viet emperor has like around 10 concubines or something, having 9999 rooms like China does is like fricken having 9900 EMPTY rooms. It's logical though isn't it? Who the heck would live there?

Korean palaces are smaller. I read somewhere that they wanted to make it JUST AS BIG, but the Chinese emperor OBJECTED to it so they made it smaller. [/quote]
i think u guys didn't start to build Hue after 1800 [/quote]
There are older palaces, Hue is only one of the places where the Viet imperial family was located. Hue is not the ONLY palace Vietnam has.

I don't know, i always though Hue was a bit older than just being built around 1800. I'm not a Viet history buff when it comes to the palaces and when they were built and such.

And we've been having emperors for a thousand years already... [/quote]
just like china, we have palace at hang zhou and xi'an i think...

see when i was young, i didn't know where is vietnam and korea(i thought korea was part of china).

China has too many palaces. There have been too many capitals.

My fav is the Summer Palace :P.

That's ok, most little kids don't care about geography. When i was small i didn't even listen in class, i ran around and messed up the desks and stuff. And the ONLY reason why the teachers liked me was because i never lied, and was otherwise peaceful. I messed up desks, not people. I remember a kid was trying to stab me with some stick, and it kind of hurt, so i slapped him silly and told the teacher. He was like "he slapped me!" then i was like "he tried to stab me, i was defending myself!" Hahahaha

wow..u are a wild girl or boy??

He my friend, "HE." I'm a guy. The girls are worse. I remember them chasing me with sticks in packs rather than one at a time and poking me with it.

Lucky i wasn't born in asia, probably would've been whipped.

hahha.. u know what, i thought u were a girl at long time ago...

Why did you think i was a girl?

Didn't i correct you that time too?

hehehe..i don't know why i think u is a girl,
anyway i'm sorry

Just don't do it again.

Manliness is important to a guy you know.

i know...
u not from USA right??

:genius: Canada, just on top of America. A Canadian of Central Vietnamese descent. A GUY, height: 176cm (5'10" i think), age 18. I think that's all i've disclosed over the internet, with all those stalkers out there i'm keeping everything else secret I wouldn't mind girls following me home, but fact is, most people are ugly (no offence to potential stalkers out there)

man u are a tall vietnamese... i felt i'm short... gosh..

my vietnamese friend she's pretty hot, but too bad u are younger than her

I think it's the milk. All my cousins who come from Vietnam are usually under 170cm. But ones born here are all over 170.

How tall are you?



Age doesn't matter Got any pictures? Hahaha

i'm 172, my brother he is 176....

well see my friend she is very close mind girl, she told me whe won't date a guy who is younger than her..

$hit. lol, i live in Canada anyways. Probably would never meet her in real life. (i say that, but i feel pain inside j/k)

My grandma was actually older than my grandpa. So i don't mind older women, but ONLY if they're like at max a year or two older (you'd probably have to still have really great qualities though, because like most guys, i prefer younger women). Any older and even i fold my arms and walk away.

haha yeah... i don't like women are too old either...
well we might plan go to canada next summer, well she told me if i go, she will go too...

How old is she and you? And you guys seem close! And where in Canada you planning to go to? The mountain view?

she's 19 and i'm 18....
yeah we are close, but i think it is more like brother and sister. her parents are very nice to me too.
if i go to canada i will go to Toronto

Toronto, i personally prefer Vancouver. Hotter chicks, my opinion of course.

Anyways, back on topic.

What's specifically so great about Beijing? I hear lots about it, but is there anything specific?

Stop making fun of China. Minh Mang alone has 200 concubines, not counting servants, and eunuches

i think nothing wrong with chinese king have 1000 wives.. that's shows they have greatest power and money

clean, i never been to beijing before.....

and how horny all the asian kings are

man, those kings need to have sex every night, and they start have sex when they were young.

yeah, I think everybody shares the herd of concubines and eunuches, and kings were all bisexual...

i think vietnamese king are bisexuals

In the imperial palace, there were around 6,000 concubines and 20,000 or more eunuches...

Young princes are initiated by the oldest or the most worn out of their father's concubines and eunuches... for a start; until they are given the throne and the concubines and eunuches... as heritage.



see "Famous Chinese Eunuches" (bottom of page)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

man they don't d!ck, how caan they have sex??

Anyway, all people working in the imperial palace occupy very hardcore professions!!!!

i bet u will try it,

LOL I'm neither an emporor nor a young prince nor a eunuch!

Anyway, they passed on and on the "heritage" from generation to generation... Nobody stayed virgin, as all spent a lifetime career in the palace...!

That is to say, in the end, they all had 6,000 concubines (mostly the same as their father) + the most pretty eunuches, but only each emperor took at least one fresh official queen.

princess?? or prince? ain't u a girl??

You suck at detecting gender...

Where are you from specifically? New York?

man, i know i am, but he or she got a girl picture as avatar