Full Version: Dzungars!
So how many Oirats do we have here?
Baruun Mongols=Western Mongolia=Oirat
I,m Oirat from my mother side. My mother's father and mother are Oirats. I,m Halha from my father side. I,m for UNITED MONGOLIA. ZuunGar is old name for Oirats that existed only in 17th century. Modern day we use western Mongolians Oirat or Durwed Bayad ...
I,m Oirat from my mother side. My mother's father and mother are Oirats. I,m Halha from my father side. I,m for UNITED MONGOLIA. ZuunGar is old name for Oirats that existed only in 17th century. Modern day we use western Mongolians Oirat or Durwed Bayad ...
fu-k fu-k fu-k!
Out of all the people on this forum, YOU say you are Oirat? Pffft
Dzungar is our legacy you Halh-washed idiot
Out of all the people on this forum, YOU say you are Oirat? Pffft
Dzungar is our legacy you Halh-washed idiot
HISTORY:
DZUNGAR KHANATE
ORIGINS
The ancestry of the Oirats is from Naiman, Kerait and Merkit stock. However the first Oirats were a group that emerged after the fall of the Yuan Dynasty in China and began the long feud against Halh Mongolia for the next 400 years.
TERM
Oirat comes from the term Dörben Oirat also known as the "Alliance of Four". It started with four western Mongolian tribes Khoshut, Choros, Dörbet and Torghut, then incorporated other tribes such as the Zachachin, Bayids and Uriankhai.
EARLY HISTORY
Oirats were never fully united into a single power for the longest time. Toghon Tayisi in the 15th century expanded Oirat rule greatly but after his son Esen Tayisi (Who managed to capture a Ming emperor) was slain in civil war - over his diplomatic screwup with the Ming. The Oirats fell into disunity and fought amongst themselves.
RISE OF THE DZUNGARS
In 1606 however, Khara Khula emerged to unite the Oirats against the Halhas who was attempting to annex Oirat territory. He himself was descendant of Esen, and formed the Dzungar nation. He didn't call himself a Khan however, and was strictly a military ruler. In 1609 he won a decisive victory against the Halhs and established sovereignity over Dzungaria, but it wasn't until 1623 that Ubashi Khong Tayiji - Khan of the Altan Mongols was killed and thus established Dzungar independence from the Mongols.
Dzungars did not have a Khaan until 1671 by Galdan Khaan. It was during this period that the Dzungar Khanate came to be as it is famously known - territories owned were Dzungaria, East Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan by 1679.
PAN-MONGOL CONQUESTS
As Manchuria grew in power to the East however, Galdan Khaan wanted to re-unite the Mongols by invading Mongolia in 1688. He was backstabbed by his nephew Tsewang Rabtan who usurped his throne in 1689 however.
Dzungar armies advanced all the way to Eastern Mongolia, then proceeded south as the Halh royalty fled to inner-Mongolia - who then surrendered themselves to the Manchus for their support against Dzungar armies. The Qing Emperor agreed, and sent a letter to Galdan asking for peace - however, it was not peace he had intended.
The battle of Ulaan Budan was no battle. It was an ambush, crushing Galdan's unprepared forces and forced him back to Halh Mongolia. Galdan was isolated from Dzungaria (which his nephew usurped) and could not recover from this defeat. By 1696 a combined force of Halh Mongols and Manchus invaded Mongolia and encircled Galdan's remaining forces at the battle of Zuunmod. Queen Anu sacrificed her life to save Galdan from encirclement in which he survived - but killed himself in 1697 to avoid capture.
AFTERMATH
The Dzungars were completely in disarray at this time fighting amongst themselves over succession. It was completely lawless, and its people were also inflicted with the smallpox epidemic which spread across the region at that time. It was during this time when Prince Amursana also betrayed the Dzungars by joining with the Manchus on the condition that he would be called Khaan. He had his own plans however but was found out somehow and fled to the Russians for refuge.
GENOCIDE
In 1755, Cebdenjab, son of a Halh Mongol prince, led the expedition for the Qing Emperor and exterminated the remainder of the Dzungar people who did not migrate westwards towards the Caucasus. It was genocide, numbers are unknown - it is unknown also whether the majority of the population were killed due to small-pox or by the expedition. All were massacred, including men, women, and children in Dzungaria. After the final Khan Dawa Achi was slain in 1759 that the massacre ended. The Manchu Emperor repopulated the territory then called it Xinyiang - or "New territory".
---------------------
MAP
Here's a map of the Dzungar Khanate at 1720 (23 years after Galdan's death - and rule of his nephew):
---------------------
KALMYK KHANATE
There is a rather long history of the Kalmyk Khanate in the Caucasus. I really can't be stuffed putting it all together. But here's a general history:
MIGRATION
Kalmyks - means 'remnant'. The branch of Kalmyks existed in the Caucasus before 1755 - as the map above from Russian sources shows. After the war against Halha Mongolia and Manchurian Empire in addition to the smallpox epidemic where most of our men, women and children were exterminated, the remainder of us migrated westward. Why extermination - which was not the nomadic way? Ask those Halha buddhists. Yellow sect buddhism is as theocratic as any other crazy religious sect.
RISE OF KALMYKIA
We ended up evicting the native Turks of the caucasus, then we aligned ourselves with the Russian Tsars to fight against other Turks, Muslims, and Ottomans. We were doing great until Ayuka Khan died, then the Russians betrayed us and we ended up taking them on while at the same time every other Turk hated us.
RUSSIAN OCCUPATION
In the end Russia incorporated us into their Empire. Centuries down the track we fought for both Nazi Germany (against U.S.S.R.) as well as for the U.S.S.R. There is a great memorial statue crafted in our honor in defence of the motherland.
However, due to many Kalmyk guerillas (who joined the Nazis) giving the Russians so much trouble, Stalin had the nerve to decide "hmmm, Kalmyks, many Kalmyks joined the Nazis and killed a lot of Russians... no can't trust them, I'm going to deport them".
GENOCIDE (the 2nd - heh as if the Jews can even claim this)
The Russians deported us all over the place in 1943 and many died because of it. Heroes who fought for Stalin - returned home, and found out that our people were being deported. So much for a reward! We had no food, no clothing, nothing, most of us died during the deportations. Betrayed AGAIN!
REFORMATION OF KALMYKIA
1957 was when we were allowed to return home. The area was repopulated by Russians and Ukrainians however, and they wished to stayed. So we didn't really have much choice. However, Kalmyks now have their own autonomous state inside the Russian Republic.
Dzungar/Oirat/Kalmyk has many famous people under their banner and heritage - Vladimir Lenin himself, General Subeedei himself from the Uriankhai tribe, and many others.
DZUNGAR KHANATE
ORIGINS
The ancestry of the Oirats is from Naiman, Kerait and Merkit stock. However the first Oirats were a group that emerged after the fall of the Yuan Dynasty in China and began the long feud against Halh Mongolia for the next 400 years.
TERM
Oirat comes from the term Dörben Oirat also known as the "Alliance of Four". It started with four western Mongolian tribes Khoshut, Choros, Dörbet and Torghut, then incorporated other tribes such as the Zachachin, Bayids and Uriankhai.
EARLY HISTORY
Oirats were never fully united into a single power for the longest time. Toghon Tayisi in the 15th century expanded Oirat rule greatly but after his son Esen Tayisi (Who managed to capture a Ming emperor) was slain in civil war - over his diplomatic screwup with the Ming. The Oirats fell into disunity and fought amongst themselves.
RISE OF THE DZUNGARS
In 1606 however, Khara Khula emerged to unite the Oirats against the Halhas who was attempting to annex Oirat territory. He himself was descendant of Esen, and formed the Dzungar nation. He didn't call himself a Khan however, and was strictly a military ruler. In 1609 he won a decisive victory against the Halhs and established sovereignity over Dzungaria, but it wasn't until 1623 that Ubashi Khong Tayiji - Khan of the Altan Mongols was killed and thus established Dzungar independence from the Mongols.
Dzungars did not have a Khaan until 1671 by Galdan Khaan. It was during this period that the Dzungar Khanate came to be as it is famously known - territories owned were Dzungaria, East Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan by 1679.
PAN-MONGOL CONQUESTS
As Manchuria grew in power to the East however, Galdan Khaan wanted to re-unite the Mongols by invading Mongolia in 1688. He was backstabbed by his nephew Tsewang Rabtan who usurped his throne in 1689 however.
Dzungar armies advanced all the way to Eastern Mongolia, then proceeded south as the Halh royalty fled to inner-Mongolia - who then surrendered themselves to the Manchus for their support against Dzungar armies. The Qing Emperor agreed, and sent a letter to Galdan asking for peace - however, it was not peace he had intended.
The battle of Ulaan Budan was no battle. It was an ambush, crushing Galdan's unprepared forces and forced him back to Halh Mongolia. Galdan was isolated from Dzungaria (which his nephew usurped) and could not recover from this defeat. By 1696 a combined force of Halh Mongols and Manchus invaded Mongolia and encircled Galdan's remaining forces at the battle of Zuunmod. Queen Anu sacrificed her life to save Galdan from encirclement in which he survived - but killed himself in 1697 to avoid capture.
AFTERMATH
The Dzungars were completely in disarray at this time fighting amongst themselves over succession. It was completely lawless, and its people were also inflicted with the smallpox epidemic which spread across the region at that time. It was during this time when Prince Amursana also betrayed the Dzungars by joining with the Manchus on the condition that he would be called Khaan. He had his own plans however but was found out somehow and fled to the Russians for refuge.
GENOCIDE
In 1755, Cebdenjab, son of a Halh Mongol prince, led the expedition for the Qing Emperor and exterminated the remainder of the Dzungar people who did not migrate westwards towards the Caucasus. It was genocide, numbers are unknown - it is unknown also whether the majority of the population were killed due to small-pox or by the expedition. All were massacred, including men, women, and children in Dzungaria. After the final Khan Dawa Achi was slain in 1759 that the massacre ended. The Manchu Emperor repopulated the territory then called it Xinyiang - or "New territory".
---------------------
MAP
Here's a map of the Dzungar Khanate at 1720 (23 years after Galdan's death - and rule of his nephew):
---------------------
KALMYK KHANATE
There is a rather long history of the Kalmyk Khanate in the Caucasus. I really can't be stuffed putting it all together. But here's a general history:
MIGRATION
Kalmyks - means 'remnant'. The branch of Kalmyks existed in the Caucasus before 1755 - as the map above from Russian sources shows. After the war against Halha Mongolia and Manchurian Empire in addition to the smallpox epidemic where most of our men, women and children were exterminated, the remainder of us migrated westward. Why extermination - which was not the nomadic way? Ask those Halha buddhists. Yellow sect buddhism is as theocratic as any other crazy religious sect.
RISE OF KALMYKIA
We ended up evicting the native Turks of the caucasus, then we aligned ourselves with the Russian Tsars to fight against other Turks, Muslims, and Ottomans. We were doing great until Ayuka Khan died, then the Russians betrayed us and we ended up taking them on while at the same time every other Turk hated us.
RUSSIAN OCCUPATION
In the end Russia incorporated us into their Empire. Centuries down the track we fought for both Nazi Germany (against U.S.S.R.) as well as for the U.S.S.R. There is a great memorial statue crafted in our honor in defence of the motherland.
However, due to many Kalmyk guerillas (who joined the Nazis) giving the Russians so much trouble, Stalin had the nerve to decide "hmmm, Kalmyks, many Kalmyks joined the Nazis and killed a lot of Russians... no can't trust them, I'm going to deport them".
GENOCIDE (the 2nd - heh as if the Jews can even claim this)
The Russians deported us all over the place in 1943 and many died because of it. Heroes who fought for Stalin - returned home, and found out that our people were being deported. So much for a reward! We had no food, no clothing, nothing, most of us died during the deportations. Betrayed AGAIN!
REFORMATION OF KALMYKIA
1957 was when we were allowed to return home. The area was repopulated by Russians and Ukrainians however, and they wished to stayed. So we didn't really have much choice. However, Kalmyks now have their own autonomous state inside the Russian Republic.
Dzungar/Oirat/Kalmyk has many famous people under their banner and heritage - Vladimir Lenin himself, General Subeedei himself from the Uriankhai tribe, and many others.
QUOTE(YouAgain @ Jul 6 2008, 05:20 AM) 
Baruun Mongols=Western Mongolia=Oirat
I,m Oirat from my mother side. My mother's father and mother are Oirats. I,m Halha from my father side. I,m for UNITED MONGOLIA. ZuunGar is old name for Oirats that existed only in 17th century. Modern day we use western Mongolians Oirat or Durwed Bayad ...
I,m Oirat from my mother side. My mother's father and mother are Oirats. I,m Halha from my father side. I,m for UNITED MONGOLIA. ZuunGar is old name for Oirats that existed only in 17th century. Modern day we use western Mongolians Oirat or Durwed Bayad ...
someone told me you're chinese..
is that true?
QUOTE(Unholymarch @ Jul 6 2008, 05:47 AM)
fu-k fu-k fu-k!
Out of all the people on this forum, YOU say you are Oirat? Pffft
Dzungar is our legacy you Halh-washed idiot
Out of all the people on this forum, YOU say you are Oirat? Pffft
Dzungar is our legacy you Halh-washed idiot
You know me i,m too great for this chat only my english sucks .That is all I,m proud one.I can speak with western dialect i can speak with Halha accent too
QUOTE(felltohell @ Jul 6 2008, 06:01 AM)
someone told me you're chinese..
is that true?
is that true?
yes it might.Cuz we Mongolians had many sexual relationship with Chinese people in 19 th century.When i go outside of the UB(capital city ) i see many mixed faces
then you might feel like exploding sometimes... 
QUOTE(YouAgain @ Jul 6 2008, 06:03 AM)
You know me i,m too great for this chat only my english sucks .That is all I,m proud one.I can speak with western dialect i can speak with Halha accent too
yes it might.Cuz we Mongolians had many sexual relationship with Chinese people in 19 th century.When i go outside of the UB(capital city ) i see many mixed faces
yes it might.Cuz we Mongolians had many sexual relationship with Chinese people in 19 th century.When i go outside of the UB(capital city ) i see many mixed faces
Proud? You attack Oirats at every turn - go figure, and you support the religion that left no room for the innocent Dzungar children in Dzungaria. And what? lol you're hujaa?
Spreading the seeds is not the same as planting the seeds - but in your case, guess your parents planted the seeds lol 
Now there is no Oirat now there is only Mongolia I just said that stupid thing to that FAT B who has no idea about MGL and trying to bubble
I just said that stupid thing to that FAT B who has no idea about MGL and trying to bubble
There is still Kalmykia, and who's FAT B?
FAT B is FTH
Kalmyka is under Russia but we need wise man like him.He came to Mongolia and made this music video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Bk57Ypw6pY
Kalmyka is under Russia but we need wise man like him.He came to Mongolia and made this music video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Bk57Ypw6pY
FTH / Felltohell is a filipina chick ffs
WTF!
Bro - we've suffered much, many enemies - including even brother Mongolians, our struggles and plights no one has even heard of - yet everyone has heard of the Jews. We have much to be proud of as we are still Mongols after so much adversity.
WTF!
Bro - we've suffered much, many enemies - including even brother Mongolians, our struggles and plights no one has even heard of - yet everyone has heard of the Jews. We have much to be proud of as we are still Mongols after so much adversity.
Of course it depends on all Mongols !
@That fat B chick is nothing interesting to me.She is fat and she is just cool behind PC
@That fat B chick is nothing interesting to me.She is fat and she is just cool behind PC
Pan-Mongolism!!! 
Just no more this 'I am descendant you are not' bull$hit!
Errr, F2H is ANYTHING but fat - in fact - she needs to put on some weight
Just no more this 'I am descendant you are not' bull$hit!
Errr, F2H is ANYTHING but fat - in fact - she needs to put on some weight
OMG finally you understood my IDEA Oh my sexy english how you suck
@ i did't see her i just imagine her as a FAT B.
@ i did't see her i just imagine her as a FAT B.
You've gone paranoid, F2H is not B
whatever ahaha
So where's Goktuul? 
No Idea.
Kazaks and Kyrgyzs still afraid of the Oirad Zuungars You made him to feel scared haha
Kazaks and Kyrgyzs still afraid of the Oirad Zuungars
You made him to feel scared haha
LOL I don't like to speak ill of them as there are GOOD ones and I've put aside their pawnage already
Yes the fear still exists, but it's more of a problem then a good thing
Yes the fear still exists, but it's more of a problem then a good thing
yeah,now i have to cook some buuz and will be back 
So, 2 oirats, who else?
...and some chinamen. Life was always like that even in our ancestor time
LOL! Hhahaha
We need some more pretty women here.
Chinamen scared 'em away
QUOTE(Unholymarch @ Jul 6 2008, 09:37 AM)
Chinamen scared 'em away
fu-k them
I think i need to drink something tonight
QUOTE(YouAgain @ Jul 6 2008, 08:42 AM)
fu-k them
I think i need to drink something tonight
I think i need to drink something tonight
Sry Im late everyone
had an awesome time yesterday . I am West Mongolian on my fathers side what is up in the meeting?
That makes 3
Goktuul read the "Flag of Mongolia" thread
Goktuul read the "Flag of Mongolia" thread
QUOTE(GokTuul @ Jul 6 2008, 10:01 AM)
Sry Im late everyone had an awesome time yesterday . I am West Mongolian on my fathers side what is up in the meeting?
had an awesome time yesterday . I am West Mongolian on my fathers side what is up in the meeting?You know why western Mongolians are so patriotic and hot blooded this would be explained of us
Ferocity and passion
The Khaan's bodyguards, His great general Subeedei, our ancestor - Long live Dzungaria!
The Khaan's bodyguards, His great general Subeedei, our ancestor - Long live Dzungaria!
Mongolia
Ahahahahaha
You're half Halh yes?
You're half Halh yes?
As i said yes. I,m for UNITED MONGOLIA My mothers relatives are speaking with the western accent. I never hide my mother's side that has Oirad blood. I,m proud but i,m not for divide Mongolia like Oirads and Halhs .UNITED MONGOLIA If someone is proud of their Oirad blood that is ok too
My mothers relatives are speaking with the western accent. I never hide my mother's side that has Oirad blood. I,m proud but i,m not for divide Mongolia like Oirads and Halhs .UNITED MONGOLIA If someone is proud of their Oirad blood that is ok too
Oirats take no $hit, leave no room for bull$hit. As long as halhs dont try to claim all $hit as their own in coming times I'm happy
Now it's Mongolia my friend.Halh dialect is commonly used in whole Mongolia. Halh is the most progressed in literature in everything. Western Mongolians who is Oirad (Durwed accent) coming to UB they change their accent.Because ppl mostly laugh at them when they speak with their accent.So they do change their accent into Halh in the street but at home they use durwed accent.
I,m for whole Mongolia i,m too great for some reason
I,m for whole Mongolia i,m too great for some reason
I met a Mughal descendant actually, she was a total disgrace. Maybe I shouldnt have been that forward and disgusted by her. But your right that some Mongols have forgotten who the are.
However this is not the case of Kalmykia!
However this is not the case of Kalmykia!
Zuungars are part of Mongolia's history. Oirds are western Mongols so we, Mongolians, have a right to claim as our own. Do not forget that Mongolia is not just Khalkhas.
Between I am half Sartuul and half Khalkh. Sartuul is included as tribe of Khalkh so I guess I am full Khalkh.
Between I am half Sartuul and half Khalkh. Sartuul is included as tribe of Khalkh so I guess I am full Khalkh.
You don't understand, we don't mind Halhs proudly celebrating our achievements as Mongol achievements - but when it comes to Halhs speaking ill about us Oirats - that's when it's an issue.
Now everyone should have their own forum 3 million ppl
QUOTE(YouAgain @ Jul 6 2008, 01:11 PM)
Now it's Mongolia my friend.Halh dialect is commonly used in whole Mongolia. Halh is the most progressed in literature in everything. Western Mongolians who is Oirad (Durwed accent) coming to UB they change their accent.Because ppl mostly laugh at them when they speak with their accent.So they do change their accent into Halh in the street but at home they use durwed accent.
I,m for whole Mongolia i,m too great for some reason
I,m for whole Mongolia i,m too great for some reason
UCP, do you speak Oirat fluently?
I know many words but am not familiar with the rules of grammar. So I can't form sentences, even though I understand, for the most part, what is said. I'd certainly appreciate it if you took the time to post the rules of grammar with plenty of examples.
Buzava... that makes 4
QUOTE(Buzava @ Jul 7 2008, 10:30 AM)
UCP, do you speak Oirat fluently?
I know many words but am not familiar with the rules of grammar. So I can't form sentences, even though I understand, for the most part, what is said. I'd certainly appreciate it if you took the time to post the rules of grammar with plenty of examples.
I know many words but am not familiar with the rules of grammar. So I can't form sentences, even though I understand, for the most part, what is said. I'd certainly appreciate it if you took the time to post the rules of grammar with plenty of examples.
You should talk to me on messenger
Buzava pissed off somewhere
I'm not pissed at all.
I've logged off the Internet for the summer, at least from home, but will access it from time to time at work.
Right now I've gotten together with a few Kalmyks to try to revive the Kalmyk language but can't find anyone who knows the formal rules of grammar. Same as Oirat and probably Halh as well.
I've logged off the Internet for the summer, at least from home, but will access it from time to time at work.
Right now I've gotten together with a few Kalmyks to try to revive the Kalmyk language but can't find anyone who knows the formal rules of grammar. Same as Oirat and probably Halh as well.
I see
Head over to the link I'm sending you now through PM
By the time Naadam is over + maybe a month maybe the forum will grow and you'll meet another
Head over to the link I'm sending you now through PM
By the time Naadam is over + maybe a month maybe the forum will grow and you'll meet another
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