I would like to start this by giving you a brief description of myself. Twenty-nine year old White male very happily married to an independent Hmong female. We have been married for a few years. It is the best relationship I have had in my adult life. We are also duel military and our blissful romance started off in Seoul, South Korea.

So let's rewind the clock if you will and I will bring you back to Seoul. I met Xiaoying on a weekend, very late at night. I was out socializing with friends and decided to return to garrison early. She was at the gate, we exchanged numbers and went from there. During our dating relationship she often had asked what I saw in her. Believe it or not, finding one pure of heart is no easy task. I often stated and still do to this day. "Just be yourself, Xiaoying!"

After a lengthy period of time I asked for her hand in marriage. She accepted. I consider myself a man of strong morals and believe parents need to be notified of such a meaningful act. Our parent's were told, with the exception of her father. Yes even Hmong women have secrets. Our marriage was not traditional, but a marriage it is.

Over time and returning from our duty station over seas we both finally had the chance to meet our in-laws. Both of us thought all was well with my Hmong brides parents. Prior to this meeting my wife was met with threats of disowning and severing of family ties.

This is where the plot thickens so to speak. I want to share with both Hmong females and interracial husbands about some of the very real issues you will deal with. First of all the Hmong marriage. There are two types of wedding rituals in Hmong culture. One is the regular wedding (the “tshoob tog qws”), and the other is the wedding by request or influence of family and relatives (“the tshoob zawj”). With the first type of marriage one must understand that it is not acceptable to marry with in the same clan. And the second is arranged marriage by the family. Here is where the Irony truly lye's. The marriage of the bride and groom is not the focal point of the reunion. They are not the center of attention.

It is to obtain influence within another family. And with these type of marriages control still remains over their siblings. I will state examples of this. Let's discuss "the tshoob zawj." Unmarried woman are considered a disgrace because the family would miss out on establishing social relationships with other clans. Hmong girls continue to marry in their middle teens often not finishing High School. While their Hmong male counterpart often wait until after High School and College. This leaves the Hmong female little to no choice but to comply with tradition, having no formal tools of education to procure employment to be independent. That's some hard truth to accept if you are a young Hmong female.

Let's digress about my marriage shall we. Remember I stated we thought all was well. Our relationship with her parents as of today is non-existent. A few months ago Xiaoyiing confided in me to let her twin sister open an account with USAA. It was first met with resistance but the asian persuasion has it's ways. I agreed and Xiaoying sponsored her for an account. Our savings was tied together but mine and Xiaoying's checking is seperate with her twin being tied to her. My savings was in the thousands of dollars. And on the first day of receiving her atm immediately started to make large withdraws. Well in short over drafting her account and to make up the balance it withdrew from our savings.

After my statements came in we found the problem closed the account and demanded our money back. Realistically we both know that we will not see one red cent of that money. Her twin is living at home, single and unemployed. And on top of that is living up to the stereotypical image of Hmong women being obese. This is where her parents particularly her father comes back into play. He became concerned after we had decided to seek legal action against her twin for bank fraud. Now remember this fact, the Hmong male has considerable control over the family. He actually demanded an additional $1200.00 dollars over the phone. Yes, you read that correctly.

Hmong culture is supposed to be based off of mutual respect and understanding of the Hmong community. I want to iterate this with the utmost intensity. A few weeks after the conversation with her father. My very loving wife came home with the most bewildered look on her face. Concerned we immediately broke into conversation. She stated that she had a conversation with her mother that day. Details of this conversation were demands that she come home immediately, regardless of the consequences of being in the military. That her marriage was null and void to Hmong Culture. And again threats of disowning and severing of family ties. I want to ask you all this, where does respect come into play if you conspire behind a husband and his wife. It's cowardly. Taking the initiative to meet my father-in-law on an even playing field, calling him directly and confronting him with this issue. His only remarks were this "You are white, you are $hit!" Not once but repeatedly. Respect and understanding? I think not.

Now with a quick back brief of some other advents and my conclusion. Prior to meeting my wife. She sent home the majority of her earnings to her parents for their own use. I put an end to that. Can you imagine giving your family $40,000.00 plus dollars and only be repaid with resentment? I will leave her family with this as we WANT YOU to read this and want other to know the truth. Xiaoying is independent, she is an adult, she has her voice in our marriage. She is not turning back. Her name means SMALL BRAVE. Can you hear her roar with a thunderous commanding presence? I can and happily accept it.

To all HMONG females, the future is yours for the taking, do not let anything keep you from it. To all interracial husbands set your Hmong wives free and watch them move mountains.

I dedicate this information to my loving wife Xiaoying Lee

Sorry to go off topic but your wife Xiaoying Lee, did she have a brother who was killed in Iraq about a year or two ago?

Well said. Don't pay attention to those who say otherwise.

How do you say "Xiaoying" in Hmong? Or is that a Chinese name?

Well you got morals and ur dedicated...it's all good...most of them Old Folks just scared the Whites, Blacks, Hispanics and other peoples just wanna fu-k em and leave em later that's all. But $hit, Hmong dudes do that too aha.

You are making a notion that Hmong males are looking down on Hmong females (or sounds like the idea) which makes Hmong females a sentimental object and leaving them open targets for white men like you (making Hmong males look bad). What is it exactly? We Hmong men actually are more connected to our Hmong women in more ways than you can ever imagine.

Also sounds to me, this topic is an exploit for interracial relationship of white men and hmong women.

You already know the Hmong family and relationship to marriage rules, in your example, the severing of family ties. Sounds complicated? Not really. Just gotta keep it simple.

Good luck to you and your wife in your marriage relationship.

Army? Chairforce?? Marines?? Navy??? Pusan sucks...

I think you are misunderstanding my point. Wouldn't you agree that Hmong females waiting later in their lives to marry would benefit them and their family? You can not honestly tell me that putting marriage before education is totally acceptable. In some rare cases I can see where it would benefit. Regarding the(“the tshoob zawj” Hmong women are left at a disadvantage if they are wed in their mid teens and leave education behind as I have previously stated. You can not deny that. And if you do, you are truly conceited. Which would further prove the point.

And I have not portrayed the Hmong male to be a villain. In fact the Hmong male has the advantage. Don't you think it should be an even playing field with your partner or female counterpart?

My topic being an exploit for interracial marriage to white men? Why does it have to be my particular ethnicity? Is it because I myself am Caucasian? If one truly wanted to exploit Hmong women wouldn't he want the dependent, mid teen? And what I want is the exact opposite. For them to be truly independent, well educated professionals. Being able to make their own choices. Outside of the constraints of their families persuasion. Would you, or would you not agree that all not some "ALL" Hmong women deserve that chance if they choose to? After all the majority of Hmong men reap the benefits of a good education.

Yes I have read about marriage rules, and tradition. But those very rules and traditions are not infallible. The only thing that is, is god's decree. So common sense would tell me severing family ties with your child because of your marriage partner is to say the least arrogant. Simple? I think not.

I do thank you on wishing us luck on our marriage. We are having a great time together.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zi2LoWPImZE

I don't agree. Young Hmong women married at mid-teens are more experienced in being the woman of the house, thus taking the role as a wife. What better way for preparing to be a good mother traditionally at around their mid-teens? And, there are mid-teen Hmong wives who do have some general education and such after highschool. Those Hmong women who marry at a later age because of education, work, or other set backs are less experienced in being mothers and taking on the roles of a wife or the woman of the house. I mean, this is traditionally how it is and it applies to every other race as well.



Yes. It should be an even playing ground. In fact, for the most part, it is according to sex roles which is old news.



Since this is a topic about you, I didn't want to drift out of the situation at hand, in this case, your experience. I could be saying the same thing about other races; however let's not. I don't think a mid-teen Hmong person marrying at a young age is exploiting anything because it is the person's decision whether the decision is a collective one (where family values come into play for an example) or an individual one (where it's based solely on a mutual agreement between the couples for an example). Yes. Hmong women do in fact are given the chance of equal opportunity. There are very well educated Hmong women in the professional industry.



You've read them then I hope you have acquired a better understanding. It is in your own personal views that seem like those rules and traditions are not infallible. If it is not, maybe you can throw out some examples/sources and suggest some changes that could improve it. After all, rules and traditions have been around for years and it is the foundation to which we Hmong have lived by.



I give you welcome. I hope the good be within you and yours, and to make positive changes for our future.

Obviously Amara you must find me to be some ignorant individual that is just on some tirade. Ironically though Yellow Rage is an exact depiction of a violent tirade. What a great way to show ethnic pride with vulgarity. Not to mention racism.

So now I will take the time to ask you a few questions in reference to this video. Because I think you wanted their words to reflect on what you wanted to say. When did I state that I wanted to be Asian? It also mentioned various places throughout Asia. Do you take me as some individual that has not traveled. They mentioned Seoul, The DMZ, The Great Wall. Have you even been there Amara? I have seen all of those places and many more with my own eyes. I have actually lived in those places. And I will return. What is wrong with a tattoo with Asian characters or style? Or the learning of an Asian language? They made reference to being bilingual. I have been for many years, along with my wife. That was one of the traits that attracted her to me.

So Amara, you have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been left wanting. Remember this as I am a very polite individual. If you are to discuss a topic by all means discuss it. But if you are out to make a racist argument. Make sure what you input will have valid facts about the person in question.

stop complaining.

I'm a hmong female. I've met very few good hmong males. I've grown up around a lot of hmong males (immediate families and relatives) where they place hmong females lower than them. I've seen a fully grown hmong male tell his own mother, who had suggested to be calm and think things through about the problem happening, to shut the hell up because she was not the head of the house. His own mother, who was trying to keep things from going wrong. I've been to meetings, where the tribe elder (hmong male) basically told this hmong wife that her argument was wrong, when really it was the hmong husband.

I don't believe all hmong male are more connected to hmong women. Only the few have actually met the right hmong husband or wife. The rest of the hmong male either follow whatever everyone is doing and can't do anything else themselves or don't want to because its much simpliar for them. Have hmong men really asked their hmong wives what they think about life and where they want to go with it? I've seen so many of my own relatives get married "young" without finishing school and start having kids already. I've had a relative marry a young hmong wife who can't even provide for his own child.

This white male thing you were pointing out as taking advantage of hmong females. If other males, not hmong males, treat me better than what I've seen hmong males treat hmong females, I will gladly go with them as a wife.

Why would you want to keep it simple? Too many things to think about at the same time? Can't deal with very difficult problems you can't handle because you're not ready or don't want to deal with them? A marriage life will always have problems. But I'd be less of who I am, if I decided to let my parents live their dreams through me. They've got their lives they need to worry about. I've got mine to build still and I will continue to build it.

Hmong females should have their own right to what they want to do with their lives. If they want to depend on their husbands for the rest of their lives that's their choice. If hmong females want to change and become who ever they want and get there and make something of themselves then that's great.

I'd rather be recognized for my own achievements and accomplishments that I did.

You might think that marriage in the teens make you a good wife. Thats just so they can be dependent on the husband's family. I don't think they are given equal opportunity. If one comes from a family where tradition overrides everything else, the hmong female will have to go with the idea or disowned.

Like one of my hmong female friends said to me. "If a hmong girl lives on her own, then they are considered to have done wrong in their family. If a hmong girl lives with her parents, then she is a good girl." Such an oversight.

I definetly don't like most of the hmong tradition. You can follow them by all means. But hey, its the year 2008, we don't adapt to what's around us to survive, we're bound to eliminate ourselves.

If it's so much a concern about Hmong mid-teen marriages where the wife is to be dependent on the husband's family, then that by itself is an oversight because instantly, that's what will first come to mind. It is not totally so the wife can be dependent on the husband's family considering they are a married couple, nonetheless a family. You may think of it as a way of maintaining order however that's only a slight idea.

Yes. It is the year 2008, and gradually Hmong lifestyles has shifted to better suit their environment and such. Adaptation to what I ask? It is not like nature is degrading. What we have here are Hmong traditions which cannot be changed overnight.

It's always good to have family members near by. And the wife may not always be dependent on the husband. Maintaining order however slight is never bad.

Adapting to the laws, even though we may not all agree to them, of where we are living or may one day live in. Traditons can not be changed overnight, yes, but changes should be made so that tradtions are not breaking laws of this century. Many of which I've seen or heard of.

population1, I don't know if you consider yourself one of the 1% Hmong men who knows and understands the complicated roles that is comprised of "traditions, culture, and morals" of Hmong women and the way they are seen, or if you're one of the 99% of Hmong men who are conceited and willingly being ignorant to what is being done and not done to the Hmong women.

I myself have not met any Hmong man who will do what he can to change the common abuse of verbal, physical and mental state of any Hmong women and those who do are very few and not accepted within the Hmong family, even if he is right.

Tradition and culture is very different from acquired morals and religion. What of the Hmong people do they consider a tradition and what of morals? There is a very thin line between those things and the majority of the Hmong people care more about their pride and ego over all the honor in which they can contribute to change the community itself as a whole; forget traditions and culture.

Growing up as a Hmong woman, I see the small things that happens behind closed doors out of public eye and know why some of the Hmong grandmothers are they way they are. Just as an abused wife or husband still loves their abusive spouse to no ends, so do some of the Hmong women accept their 'role' as a Hmong women. Just as our mothers, and mother's mothers were taught to ingrain the mistreatment as a part of who they are, so were we.

Even though my parents are somewhat open-minded, the pride and ego of the Hmong male is still present. The 'need' to have control over the female to boost what little pride and ego the male has becomes priority. My father said, "I can always have a wife and children, but I can never replace my relatives." I have to say my relatives and father are part of the 99% who care more about their pride and ego than the well being of the family and female members. It's all about saving face, but when it comes to keeping their pride and boosting their ego, they will lick anyone's boots and wipe anyone's a$$.

NO Hmong man has proven me wrong. If you're staying to your convictions, then you're as conceited as they come. In one ear and out the other. I definitely won't be marring a Hmong man. Unless the Hmong men can prove otherwise and stand up for themselves like other men of other races, I'd marry someone else over ANY Hmong man.

No. I am actually not conceited. My point in talking about the topic has to do with traditional and cultural practices. Now, I can understand where you are coming from; however, you are implicating Hmong morals are meaningless. That's a big disrespect, and you are not making the best overall judgment. Although, I am not saying you are wrong in what you are trying to say, but cannot prove otherwise except examples of some trials and tribulations of Hmong culture. Accept the fact that we Hmong have brought over and share what we can and not everything is laid out perfectly to the thin line as the way you or few other Hmong women want to see it. If you think, and I acknowledgment you freely express your opinion, you can do whatever that can be better than go ahead. The way I see it these days, Hmong women are as equal as Hmong men, and if you cannot tolerate just a simple guidance of the roles to which we should take as Hmong people then I don't know if you are a rebellion, obnoxious, and or naive Hmong woman who only wants what the media is piling up on. Let me ask you, what is it you can do to refute the Hmong genuineness? Bring forward what you know and help rather than be a disgrace to your own egocentric expectations and to the Hmong name by running and hiding and mistreating and degrading your fellow Hmong men. I am not staying to my convictions. After all, what are my convictions? I am not conceited. I only believe and said we should hold on to our customs all the while making changes are possibly better solutions to meet our needs. I am sick and tired of Hmong women putting down every single Hmong men and giving up on them only because one or two Hmong men have made mistakes. The same goes to Hmong women. We are a people of culture. We are people that should keep our identity. And, we don't have the best common practices right now because we are not well suited yet. (Think second to third generations.) Things will get better, but for those individuals like you (not only Hmong women) who runs off and debase your very own culture is a big lost of face, and that my sweetheart is what we Hmong men are left to tend to. Read my previous posts to this thread, and you'll see I am not totally agreeable with past Hmong traditions and rules.

hmong girl who marries other race are considered SELL OUTS in my book.

I am glad that they did that. its not like we want them in our community. in the end, they will never keep the traditions, can be fake all t hey want but their children will never be hmong and never be recognized as hmong by the hmong community. and when the children get older, they will not have hmong relatives that will come over and kill cows and pigs with them, if so, rarely because the older generations only care about their the elderly but once past that, they have nothing bc they are not pure hmong. and the ones who marry other race, my goodness, dont expect respect or callings to family traditions. i know their husbands aint killing no Cow or Pig. You just through out your heritage.

First off I will ask you this question. Why would a Hmong "woman" be considered a sell out if they decide to wed to another race? You stated a Hmong "girl." So let's get your respect issue out of the way right now as you have demonstrated that already. Later on this post I will also give this community a taste of your true character.

So your a family man correct? Are you a man of strict moral values? So your glad? You condone stealing? Who are you to speak for the entire Hmong community? How do you know what the entire Hmong community wants?

You are so keen to state that a Hmong woman will not keep traditions. Think about this, the only thing a Hmong woman has to do if they marry outside of their race is this. Remember their Heritage and share it with their children.

On a personal note. "Anyone can kill a Cow, or a Pig" I think it shall be best to teach my children the fine art of hunting. To actually stalk big game as my father had taught me and his father before him.

FUTHER MORE.

It is time to show others your true character from your previous posts in other forums.



Posted on: Dec 19 2006, 09:35 PM

You know what i was thinking about today, how woman are bought in our culture. Maybe we should have an ebay strictly for men and wowan who wants to buy a spouse. Think about it, my gf is worth $10000..LOL. cow not included laugh.gif

You know what too, I wish when i get married that I can get a reciept on that $10,000


Now this is rather interesting I must say. Throwing up women on EBAY! I can see just how high you regard women in your culture.


Posted on: Dec 20 2006, 04:07 PM

First off for all you c@ck face fu-kers, just cuz some paper says max is $5000 dollars doesnt mean its going to be $5000 dollars, some family dont go buy that rule you see. The old old people like my gf's mom is 60 and trust me on this, its going to be $10000 guarantee.. Another thing is this, I know it's a dowry but in reality in you are basicly stealing her from her parents that is why you have to pay the money! That is why when you take your wife, you have to send ppl to her house to apoligize and say that you stole her and that you are WILLING to PAY for her.

And about being in debt, who cares when you marry the person you love truely.. who cares about debt.. its not the end of the whole world.. fu-k it.. just be happy you are married.

So fu-k all you haters, the ebay thing was just a joke!


Here you go again condoning stealing. Well the stealing of your wife. Well you really didn't steal her because a dowry is a part of tradition. Maybe you just lacked the confidence in the first place to confront her father? And what's with all your vulgarity?


Posted on: Dec 22 2006, 05:09 AM

QUOTE

The correct way to do it is by taking some of your relatives and going inside their home and asking them formally. You have no understanding of Hmong traditions...


I do know hmong traditon first off. dont judge me just because you dont know me ok, i go to weddings all the time, my dad is one of the clan leaders in our town ok. and yeah you could go to the girls house, but back then you needed a lot of money plus it most of the time when you went to a girls house, that meant that she didnt want to marry you in the first place, plus all her fu-king relatives want your fu-king money too!

that 12 clan bull$hit doesnt go for everyone, The yang guy in the 13 clan, he is my dads older brother brother OK.. so dont give me $hit about not knowing the fu-k about marriage when i go to one just about every weekend! $hit, i know just about everything.. how to chop up the meat a certain way to whats going to happen next... so stfu b!tch! dont lecture me when your not up to my level!

This hass nothing to do about buy.. as stated earlier.. the hmong word to marry is the same things as BUY... so dont you think when you marry.. you are actually buying your wife.


So you know Hmong tradition. "AWESOME" So when the Hmong woman couldn't be married by the “tshoob tog qws" the man's family opted for the “the tshoob zawj." A Hmong woman should have absolutely no choice in regards to marriage according to you. They are being purchased correct. It means to BUY??????? Again I am amazed how highly regard Hmong Women ... er wait girls. And um .... you know everything! Yeah ......


Posted on: Dec 22 2006, 07:07 AM

QUOTE(thaidumb @ Dec 22 2006, 04:50 AM) *

not to fuel the fire and flame, but... *claps* way to go i'm not korean. what applies to somebody's small world doesn't hold universally for the guy that believes he knows how the system truly works. i don't know what reason some ppl might have to deny the fact that they're actually buying their wives, unless they're grasping desperately to their culture... which of course is the right thing to do. even so, don't conceal ur hidden agenda by saying "u stupid arrogant kid" and not know why. give reasons. i am still waiting for an explanation. he never said anything about disrespecting or eloping. all he said was that wives are being bought. somebody blew this up.


In our culture.. its considered buying a wife.. TECHNICALLY it is buying a wife.. I was just making fun about buying a wife so i say we have an EBAY for buying wives (plural for more then one *wink wink*). Maybe i can buy it with the BUY IT NOW option laugh.gif

I dont care how anyone looks at it, go ask your parents.. they would say the same thing as me.. you are BUYING a wife! The dowry is what her parents and your parents give YOU after the wedding.. buying her with your MONEY is not a dowry because what a REAL dowry mean is a gift.. $5000 is not a gift, its a PAYMENT.. (I hope my $10,000 check doesnt bounce Talktohand.gif )


This post was rather interesting. You quoted the post from thaidumb @ Dec 22 2006, 04:50 AM. So now your on this rant about buying a wife. It's rather ironic you have spoke nothing of love in any of your posts. Don't any of you reading this find this rather odd? Again you clearly state. "It's a PAYMENT" So you do not condone freedom of choice? When do people belong to people?


Posted on: Dec 22 2006, 07:18 AM

You know you are hmong when you look in the freezer and there are pig, cow, and chickens parts frozen in zip block bags embarassedlaugh.gif

you know you are hmong when all you eat is rice and chicken at the new year!

you know you are hmong when all the ugly hmong girls act concited

you know your hmong when your asianfinest and typing in this topic!

you know your hmong when you go online and fake that pretty face for adobe photoshop


You have SUCH colorful posts.

So your only Hmong if you have those three items in the freezer? What if you have those plus venison, ruffed grouse and turkey as well?

You only know if your Hmong if you eat rice and chicken at the new year?

The Hmong New Year is celebrated with great funfair and festivity. People generally look forward the day with great enthusiasm and religious fervor. The Hmong New Year is a time of rest from harvest and work, a time for Hmong people to start new lives, new beginning. Its generally observed over a period of ten days with large family gatherings and live music. On New Year's Eve, the Hmong mark the occasion with the advent of traditional ritual ceremony called "lwm sub or qaib".Hmong New Year celebrations in Laos focuses on activities such as bullfights, traditional sports like kato, soccer, volleyball and topspin. The Hmong New Year celebration is also believed to be a good time for marriage.

There is that M word again, "WAIT" According to you BUY your wife.

And you know your Hmong if you know ugly Hmong girls are conceited? I think YOU are the conceited one. What? Your not willing to BUY your wife if she isn't a super model. "YOU ALL SHOULD SEE HIS POSTS ON THAT - SO IRONIC"

Let's not talk about this post anymore shall we. Think I made the point on this one. Moving on.


Posted on: Jan 22 2007, 08:30 PM

TO be HMONG you have to do this.. in order to establish your qualification to marry a HMONG girl

1. You must be a womanizer
2. You must have a gf in Laos or Thailand
3. You must beat your wife
4. You do not do any of the house chores

So you have listed 4 CRITICAL steps for qualification to marry a Hmong girl.

Be a womanizer, yes that's right have multiple sexual relationships at the same time on a regular basis. Keep a gf in Laos or Thailand? Is that if your current wife that you "BUY" as you call it becomes of no use? Please clarify that, I am just speculating. Yes BEAT your wife, after all you BUY a wife. She is your property after all, well according to you. Be as lazy as possible, your bought and paid for wife will tend to your every need.

You really SPEAK highly of yourself. Just think of how many others interpret it this way. Is this how you portray the Hmong Male? You are disgracing others around you.

Posted on: Dec 22 2006, 09:43 AM

You really know your hmong when your wife cost $5000 and a cow or two!

So you know you have a good wife when she cost's $5000 a few farm animals - awesome there is that word BUY again.


Posted on: Today, 01:42 AM

I'll break it down for you from what i know.

1. within 2 days of the girl being "stolen" (of course the word for marriage LITERALLY means BUY, hence the STEALING of the bride) the groom and daughter must come and sleep at the parents house.

2. the night before the wedding is mostly talks about the price of the wife.

3. its not officially recognized that they are married UNTIL the bride and groom leaves the wedding with all MONEY Paid in full or whatever they negotiated


He posted this TODAY ladies and gentleman.

So let's break this all down. What have we learned about this individual. Obviously he is a racist towards other races, including other Asian races. He has little to no respect for women. He has demonstrated his need for control. Or he envies others that opt to go another route. Because A. Marriage is not about currency and B. It's about love. But according to his thinking it's not a marriage without money. Wouldn't you call that greed?


I want to tell you something else. My wife was free. I didn't pay anything for her. Why? Because she was free to make her own choice. I bet that bothers you. Bother's you that she has her own voice. Maybe it intimidates you? But if you want to know what I did with $10,000.00 dollars shortly after my marriage to my Hmong wife. I purchased her a car. Yet another freedom. Because I PROVIDE for my wife. That is what a husband does.

You have been weighed. You have been measured. And you have been left wanting.

This is rather over-exposing the point. Perhaps, it is even stressing it more than it should be. It is a reminder, however these cultures may seem to not fit an opposer. However, there are some things that are and are being done. The most important thing here is how strongly some or most Hmong believe in the tradition, rather than how strongly the traditions may be in lacking. I don't see anything wrong as far as it is not inflicting anyone's life in a dangerous way. Laws are there; however, even laws and religion, religion having to do with traditions as well, doesn't always work together, unless it is something very wrong as to enacting a crime.

I hope you did not misunderstand me. A good Hmong man of good moral character would do the right thing in the order of marriage. Of course their is a dowry to be paid and should be expected. Because that's in your tradition and has been followed in your culture for many many decades if not longer.

The individual in question, wasn't only rude to my wife, but also to his fellow man. I find this to be unacceptable.

first off, your not hmong as you claim your not. half of the post you read you will not understand because your not hmong. you are not raised hmong so you know nothing about our culture, furthermore, half of my rant is just stereotypical on eforums. if you take what i post seriously, then you have a problem. this is something that will never work, two cultures can never combine as one, because of all the moral conflicts in between.

lets take an example, can you kill cow? are willing to kill a cow by hand? have you done it? have you sat on the tables at family gatherings and drink with the old people. have you ever done any spiritutaul blessing? your not raised in our culture or seen our culture from being born into it. all you are is a in interloper who saw our culture and married a hmong girl.

What exactly is a sell out? Why is the color of my husband's skin any different from a Hmong guy. Isn't it enough that he loves me?

My husband and I have been married 15 years with four very beautiful children. My family loves and respects my husband. My mother past away not too long ago and he killed a cow for her. He's there for every family functions and New Year.

May I ask how you are keeping the tradition? We are no longer in Laos. You no longer wear Hmong clothes everyday. There's no more forest to chop down to plant our rice and corns. There's no more opium fields to tend to. The New Years are an excuse for a Hmong flea market. We are in the US. Here, we get educated and work hard to get ahead. We do what we must in order to survive in this country.

You have the right to choose who you want to marry and I will choose who I want to marry. My children are just as much Hmong as they are white. They get the best of the both worlds. Why must you condemn my children because they are not full blood like you or yours. In the end, doesn't it matter that we are all humans after all. What makes your children more special than mine? My oldest is graduating from high school this coming year, my second is a gate student in high school. Both my youngest are honor students in elementary school, plus they do modeling on the side. They make more per hour than you probably make in a week and they're only 11 and 9 years old.

Why do I have the sense DMK is a troll, possibly the same person who started the topic, who only posts this once then leaves for good?

Sad when you think about it.

These kind of white men infest every Asian forum, trying to play God and saviors of Asian women. They have a very condescending view of the cultures and people they are not familiar with.

all i got to say is hmong people are great. i've had the experience of dating a hmong girl, and of course i woldn't be able to say for all hmong girls, but there are good hmong girls out there. now it's my misgivings and i won't talk about the details of why it ended, but don't be put off by the stereotypical news about hmong traditionalism. alot of hmong people today are just like every american, albeit their different culture. a lot of people think that hmong will sacrifice their relationship over their families, that isn't true. in fact i know a lot of hmongs will sacrifice theirs if they really care about you.

What were her parents' reactions?

i didn't that far, good for her i guess.

culture schmulture. the truth is that women use different clutches as excuses to break up a relationship. someone they say, you dont understand me or my culture blah blah im going to leave you. if someone lives under your own house you have the right and obligation to say. you live here because of me so you follow my rules. once that's off the shelve from the get go she will have less excuses

Don't hate, Population1! I'm only giving my opinion on the topic. We don't need to go back to grade school and start calling each other names.

Since when did I named you? Don't say that to me when you are full of nothing because you are nothing. Don't compare your half Hmong-half white children to us full blooded Hmong because your examples are implying, "Look here, I treat my people like $hit..." Ok, so stfu. Talk to the hand.

sir, i dont like how you demonizing Hmong male. For some odd reason it seems like you encourage womens to go interracial marriage. I really dont know whats your objective behind this as you are a white

person, but something smells fishy.

Statistics show that couples who are arranged married for example, by families etc etc. An average the first 10 years of relationship their not happy but after that its a long lasting happy life,

whereas the couple that was not arrange married or just start marrying by themselves tend to be VERY happy at first but on average after 10 years they turn out to be very unhappy with their life. Statistics

shows that Arranged married by families tends to last a longer relationship (starts out unhappy but end up being happy) compare to the couple that married without any family arrangements tend to be very

happy at first but sad after the 10 years they tend to be not so happy and that just an average. that does not mean that non-arranged marriage is always like that, what im trying to say is that its very rare to

end up in a long lasting marriage.

Its very dangerous for womens to just start going out and meet some guy you never meet and exchange phone number

Common sense will tell you that this guy must be a all out going party person, or maybe some freak or have yellow fever. People who follows under these category Disgust me

I think everyone should just stick to their own race and heritage. I dont know why when most westerners talk about Interacial marriage, they always say it in a way as if their Promoting such things as in

advertisement, bla bla bla etc etc. i really hope they will just stop selling their ideology and brainwashing people. Maybe they think Interacial Marriage will end Racism LOL.

Do you really think most westerners have any family values at all?

You see most couples walking to a store and each one of them pay for their own stuff. Lol their married? and they dont trust each other? why dont just let one person pay for it all? why seperate money? What

kind of thinking is that? whats the purpose of marrying each other if you guys cant even trust each other for who handles the money or this and that? is it just for the love of $ex? i really dont get it.

For some odd reasons westerners view sex as everyday food, something that disgust me. They have no better things to do than to do disgusting things like that .

Interesting thread. An old topic, but still seems to bring so much emotion out of all kinds of people.



Citation? Personally, I HATE statistics because they're easy to manipulate. For example, girls agree to marriage through arrangement might mostly be girls who will least likely to break up a marriage for any reason. Didn't think about that eh?

hmm.. not that I agree with everything that onemaingun has stated.

I think that he did what he thought was the most appropriate action. It's really unfortunate that her family is that way also. But we don't know their side of the story.

Hmong culture is very patriarchal, no one can deny that. It's not a surprise that many Hmong guys will act domineering; it's because of the pedestal that they've been placed on. (You can say the same for most patriarchal cultures... )

The the extreme, I guess a girl can become a lesbian if she wishes to not be dominated by men. Because, no matter which culture it is, she will be. For example, onemaingun seems to have have heavy influence on severing ties with his Hmong in-laws. ..

Personally, I don't see that there is anything wrong with interracial marriages. As long as two people are willing to work on their relationship and be happy.

What I find is that a lot of people have no idea what reality is and often end up in bad marriages, interracial or otherwise.

To reply to onemaingun's opinions: I agree that marriages are not about the couple, but about the two families. That's Hmong culture. The idea of the couple is a very western ideology on independence. To update onemaingun's perspectives a bit, there is less arranged marriages now (if there are any at all!) and most people who marry young do it out of their own free will (usually against their parent's request to <not> get married).

I think that this is one case of many and cannot be generalized.

Hey thanks for posting this on the net. First of all congratulations on your marriage. Secondly I am grateful for the men and women such as you and your wife who serve this great country of ours so we can be free. I commend you on posting your thoughts and feelings online and especially for your courage to confront your in laws. I am a Hmong Lee male and I would first like to say some of the replies you received do not represent the Hmong community as a whole . We live in a different time and place. We may not have a country of our own but we live here in the U.S.A. so this is our country now. I am proud to be Hmong but yet more proud be an American citizen. My daughters are Hmong-American and they will have my blessing regardless of who they should choose to marry. I believe that Hmong in the states should look at this with an open intellectual mind and heart, not with ignorance and hateful words with no basis for any real argument. It saddens me that to see this type of mentality that only leads to isolation and ignorance. We as a people must look forward to the future and not the past. Traditions that are illogical and irrelevant must be let go. Traditions that work and are worth preserving must be saved such as our language, clothes, musical instruments, and new years celebration. We've all been given a chance here in the states to create a brighter tomorrow for our children, our children and their children and for us as a people. These opportunities were not available to our parents so let their efforts to bring us here not be in vain. Let us be grateful and not ungrateful to our parents who suffer much on our behalf wondering through the jungles of Laos to get here. I don't want to get off the topic but thought it was important to point these things out. I would have to agree with you that early marriages do not work and a marriage at an older age would work much better. You would be more stable and wouldn't have to rely on your parent's for basic needs. Marrying young typically leads to divorces due to lack of stability and foundation. This notion by some in here that early or arranged marriages work are just totally illogical. First of all people have the right to marry a person of the opposite sex of their choice regardless of race, creed or ethnicity and secondly arranged marriages most of the time do not work. Those of arrange marriages that stays together stays because of their kid's sake not theirs, thus resulting in an unhappy marriage. Marriage is a sacred union by a consenting man and woman that willfully chooses one another and it should not be dictated by others. Even if you don't agree or don't like approve interracial marriages you should at least respect their decisions as an adult. It's their decision to make and not yours and on top of that it's their lives not yours. Those who oppose have the right to oppose and those who support it likewise have the right to support it. Now, some of my Hmong brethren would disagree with me but you are turning a blind eye and being subjective instead of being objective. Do not not bias be your ruler but instead open your eyes and mind. The truth of the matter is it's all about race and that's what this is about. I'm not afraid to speak the truth at hand. If their marriage lasts and I am confident it will. Will the ones that disowned these two also disown their future nephews and nieces too. Some may say that I'm a so called sell out but I rather speak the truth than be ignorant. When will we as a people start to realize that we must build a future here in the states and not dwell in the past. 20th century politics are no longer relevant for the 21st century. I've never been to a traditional Hmong marriage that was joyful ever. A marriage between two individuals is suppose to be a joyous occasion but it never is, even when it's Hmong marrying Hmong. It is full of nothing but bickering and back and fourth all night long about money and what your ancestors did to mines. Another is what one of your clan did to my clan recently even if their not related to you except by last name. On top of that the bride gets a beat down most of the time, which is totally absurd. Go figure why we don't have a country.(Just venting) I don't mind the famous drinking table or bowing to show respect as long as there's no bogus violations. The real truth is that no one here in the states will remember these marriages rituals in the future. Preserve the coming together of the clans and let it be a joyous occasion where both clans contribute financially to the wedding and not their bank accounts. So now I will conclude my essay...lol...by saying let them be together and don't be a stumbling block to their happiness. Live life informed and not in the darkness of ignorance. May the Lee clan my clan open their eyes and see with a clear, sound and open mind. Last but not least may your union be forever til death due you apart.

I do not in any way support interracial marriages. Why you trying to destroy our race? Fool

You got a phobia of some sort???

Phobia of what? Miscegenation is genocide and a contribution of the destruction of genes. DNA, and exclusive features that make our people unique. but then again most Hmong don't look East asian like us though. I still think it's wrong. Why destroy the very thing that makes us special and different?

Probably because not everyone utilizes it as a right to think you're better than others. Try and understand that some people don't think of it as a genocide but rather just being in a relationship with someone you love.

Asian national you speak as if your an Asian supremacist. You sound no different than a white supremacist, talking about destroying the gene pool. You have the same mentality as they do. You say Hmong people don't look like east Asians but a recent DNA study found that we have plenty of east Asian in our DNA. You can't dispute DNA results. On top of that Race was established by Darwin and the last time I checked we all part of the human race. Why don't you summit to a DNA testing for your ancestry, I bet you got other genetics that aren't east Asian.