DO MENTION OTHER METHODS AND WAYS HMONG SACRIFICED PLEASE...

Every cultures got some sort of military bravery, honor and pride.

Japanese has Samurais
Since sometime when...were expected to fight and win or die trying with no retreats, when defeated=take one's own guts out in Sepeku in defeat

Greeks has the Spartan hoplites
All Greek or Hellenic warriors were or at least expected to be mentally and physically strong, and brave in battle....as most were...but none are born and trained like Spartans
Men who fight, relentless and knows no defeat...only death


HMONGS has homeland civilians
mostly peasants...but hard as hell at times...
During the resistance to Han expansions,
those who had the balls and did not run for one reason or another
and unfortunately at a losing period
who as a last resort of resistance
Killed their wives and childern before going to battle

I FEEL THAT THIS IS THE ULTIMATE SHOW OF HMONG PRIDE...
FOR ONE TO KILL THEIR WIVES, KIDS AND RELATIVES AS A LAST RESORT TO END ANY SUFFERING
RATHER THAN SURRENDER WHEN DEFEATED
THEN GO OFF TO BATTLE ALL THE WHILE KNOWING DEFEAT
TO PROVE ONES RELENTLESSNESS IN KEEPING ONES WAY OF LIVING
AND TO GIVE THE ENEMY ONE FINAL HARDSHIP
THAT EVEN THOUGH DEFEATED...WILL NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAWS OF THE OPPRESSORS

THE HMONG WARRIOR WOULD RATHER KILL THEIR FELLOW VILLAGERS, FIGHT AND DIE AS HMONG THAN BE OPPRESSED BY FOREIGNERS

I want u guys to see something else in it as well...name something similar...

for ex: The endurance, mobility, and speed of Hmong highlanders in combat is another respect.

I'm not sure if they were anything like Hmongs in Laos...but a journalist who trekked with Chao Fa forces confirmed jungle harden Lao Hmong's endurance in the mountains...I mean up and down hill for days with little rest...little is a vague word but...the navy seal element of working for days on end is a confirmation....if i can ever find that article again..i'll post it.
The Hmongs of ancient China were very tough in the same respect.

Aww fu-k that...shoulda been like the Celts and Germanic tribes...their women fought alongside the men in battle against the mighty Roman Legions LOL!

sounds psychotic to me

that was done too....within the black hmong tribe at least...women did fight...famous ppl like Shi mom mim was one of those women....their women have almost equality to men...and a hell lot more respected...it's just more romantic...and heart aching to hear of women and childern being taken out by their own fathers, brothers, or husbands.

SHOULD I MENTION TOO THAT THIS IS DONE IN GROUPS.
HMONG MEN BY THE VILLAGES WOULD KILL OFF THOSE UNFIT TO FIGHT
THIS IS DONE TO AVOID ALL INEVITABLE SUFFERING THAT COMES TO THE DEFEATED
IT IS ALSO NOT DONE ONLY IN A VILLAGE AND THEREFORE ROMANTICIZE FOR THEIR HARDCORENESS
AGAIN THIS WAS DONE BY THE MANY

IT IS NOT MERELY A FAMILY RITUAL

IT IS A CUTURAL RITUAL

IT IS A PART OF HMONG WAR CULTURE

kill wive and children before going to battle ? what if they won ..

LOL

take it from me, when i go to battle in Iraq, i know that i am not coming back alive. i told my family that dont expect me back alive. its something you know that is and will happen sooner or later. every time you go on patrol you know that there are IED there or that the militia is waiting for you around the block. the worst part is that the enemy is the very same civillians you see everyday on the streets, including children.

i killed a child, any civillian carrying a weapon is considered enemy, and our object was to kill and militias and when i killed that child i felt no remorse nor any human feelings. its like an automatic shut down of humanity. war is not somthing anyone should be proud of nor should anyone feel pride in killing a person. I certainly dont feel anything at all. sometimes i question myself wether i am human sometimes.

i see so many dead bodies of my comrads and enemy soldiers on the battlefield, it seem unreal. the pictures you see on tv and the news is nothing at all. the news dont show you all the blood and body parts and dead bodies on the ground. its all censored you know. try looking at your best friend dead on the ground, burnt, bleeding, staring at you with his eyes wide open, motionless.....and then try to tell yourself "$hit, he was alive just 5 seconds ago"

i hate it when people are like yeah, i cant wait to go into combat and yeah i cant wait to go to war. its mostly the greens who say that. but once you seen combat and walked through the valley of death, their is nothing like coming home to someone who is waiting and dying to love you.

please support our troops

I so regret not joining the Marines after I graduated High School. Biggest mistake of my life. I ain't meant for this kinda life.

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I highly doubt ALL of your personal story is true...but that's another story...

your right about dying and killing is nothing to be proud of...especially in a war like iraq..
don't get me wrong i support the troops just not the war...i hope u agree to this

IF IT"S NOT PRIDE U SEE THEN IT"S HONOR AND BRAVERY...

homeland security and fighting for it is quite an honor...fact is, Iraq is not homeland security..it's invasion

Imagine if America was invaded full fledge...the spirit for war would be different
Where there's enemy troops in neighborhoods as in Europe in the World Wars.

BUT THERE IS A DEFINITE PRIDE IN NOT GIVING UP ONES RIGHT TO HOMELAND AND PERSONAL RIGHTS>>

the cost is always great...and it is very bitter...but when ENDURED past this bitterness to still fight on and do one's people one last favor to end suffering...that's deffinite bravery and honor...

and feeling cold and all the psychological trama of war...that's war...but to ENDURE PAST THIS TRAMA IS HONORABLE...

not everybody can do it. espeically in the manner as stated above..kill one's people

and if one can work past this psychological issue to do what must be done...


that's honor and bravery.

As did Wallace at Stirling Bridge in 1297.

I wish.

Benn, where are you getting your facts about the enduring Hmong spirit?

Hmoob Moj Them

what is that?

well look it up woman....they have a website...the radio show on it...

Well. Just say so. >.>;;

What does Moj Them mean?

I understand Hmong, but.. I have no idea what that is.

So.. that is your reference? Hmm. interesting.

the whole family killing thing seems ridiculous to me.

I know it does, which is why it's respected....it's physchologically odd to do so....but when observed under the microscope of why it's done...it's couragous and makes sense.

mojthem.com

Moj them is actually a stance...it was a chao Fa thing....the Chao Fa stance as soldiers around the world salute...Chao Fa forces moj them.....:Maah Thei"

it means alot of things...it's a term that say hmoob nationalism, pride, powress all in one....

What do you mean by stance? A physical one? A symbolic one? A political one? And salute? To whom do they salute?

Also, could you tell us the story of a group that did kill their families before going to war? Where was it? When was it? Which village? Clan? Why? Who were they fighting?

I'm not familiar with this. Also, is it related to Chao Fa?

it's a physical stance....don't have pictures...but it's where they put their left hand forearm up in a karate chop as if in prayer...and their right hand palm up under their left elbow as if recieving a blessing.....their feet either together or shoulder width apart standing tall

this is their stance as would troops around the world stand straight up when at attention.
this is the Chao Fa stance


Also, could you tell us the story of a group that did kill their families before going to war? Where was it? When was it? Which village? Clan? Why? Who were they fighting?

you said: "I'm not familiar with this."

yes, I've also got this story from Mojthem.com.....and heard many version of it....the one of Vue Pa Yia's son...and his followers took refuge in some mountain....and surrounding them were CHinese troops...unable to reach the Hmoob Prince and his ppl they decide to build a path...to instinguish them...taking forever and knowing their faith..the prince and his men did away with their childern and women...and met Chinese troops at battle.

this one took place near the end of Hmoob resistance in 1805.

PLEASE DON'T TAKE MY WORDS LITERALLY....I MAY HAVE STATE SOME THINGS WRONG. AND THERE HAVE BEEN MORE THAN THIS ONE INCIDENCE...SO DO BE PATIENT WITH MY STORY COLLECTION....AND PLEASE DO RESEARCH ON YOUR OWN AS WELL...I'LL LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.


you said "Also, is it related to Chao Fa?"


Not really....except that Chao Fa is a Hmoob nationalist organizati0on FREEDOM FIGHTERS...as Vue Pa Yia and his followers were to the Hmoob ppl....a form of protection...homeland security.

It just so happens that Mojthem.com is HMOOB PROPAGANDA and therefore...put up anything that is

Hmong:
pride
nationalism
patriotism
unity
prowess

and none of that loving grubbing that the average Hmoob class citizen dwells in..

killing their wife and children ocuured at only a point in history, but if you look at the whole hmong history scale the women and children had fought alongside with the fellow men and the women and children did as well as the men did too. it was true too that many hmong heroes were women and most of the leaders were the men this was discussed once by Yue Pheng Xiong. even though the heroes were mostly women everybody gave them respect from the males, females and elderly.