So I'm very slowly researching my father's Lauj side and I stumbled upon a website
http://e-cadao.com/coinguon/Nguoimieu.htm
I'm looking for someone who can accurately translate this, preferably the part from Mieu toc vau Vietnam
Especially because my great great grandfather and great grandfather are actually mentioned and according to family stories, we passed through Vietnam before we stopped in Nong Het.
And if anyone else is a Lauj and can share their stories of Lo Pa See and Kiatong Lo BliaYao, I would be forever in your debt!

I am a Lauj.
My great grandpa was a friend of Lo Kia Tong.

We Lauj are split into 4 groups... traditionally three groups because of our folktales and origin of our Clan... the other group belongs to Chue Sha.. the Tiger father folktale.

Our father married three wives. 123
I belong to the oldest Lauj clan.. descendant from The Third Wife aka the Lauj Tswb Tshab.

there are two other ones, one is the Lauj Pom and the other one is the Lauj Siab Qhais. I think I spell it wrong.

My father knows the stories of our LAUJ HISTORY.

xeemlauj, you are so much more knowledgable than I am T_T
Can I PM you?
I have a ton of questions.
And my father is unhelpful :X

PM me? sure.. but i barely check my message. LOL
ahahahah i wish my dad was here.. i got most of my info from my dad...
he's pretty good with hmong history.. always accurate..

Never mind PMs then.
I'll just ask here, regardless of how blatently ignorant I am of Lauj history AND written Hmong :X
Where is your father btw if you don't mind me asking?

You said the our clan has one father and 3 mothers.
Who is our father? And how did he marry our mothers?
And how did Chue Sha, the tiger father folktale become a Lauj group?
And I have never heard of tiger father folktale.
Will you tell me it please?

4 groups, differences and similarities:
The oldest, Lauj Tswb Tshab, is from the 3rd wife. Did she have a name? And what is Tswb Tshab? How do you pronounce it since I can barely read in Hmong -_-

Who is the 2nd 3rd oldest and youngest clan? Which wives did they come from? I am betting that the Chue Sha group is the youngest right?

And what is the Pom and Siab Qhais groups?

Which group was Kiatong Lo from?

You are a Lauj and you said your great grandpa was Kiatong's friend.
That means he was a Lauj too but was he closely related to Kiatong at all?

In gratitude, I will PM you a family picture from the early late 1800s/early1900s.

I know my father's version of what caused the infamous Lauj/Lis rivalry and would be interested in hearing you and your father's version.

hmmmm...

the origin of our clan.. our father, no ideas what his name is married three wives. that's all i know.
it's hard for me to tell hmong folktales because they're very long.

Our four lauj clans are base on our funeral ritual.

lauj tswb tshab... our dead are often place outside near a field.. there, bulls are sacrificed at the field.. according to our folktale, the day when our mother (third wife) was supposed to be carried out and buried, The third day of the funeral... one of the man traveled miles to send a message to her brother that his sister has decease.. and as a brother and according to funeral rites and laws, the brother has to sacrifice a cow for his sister. anyways, the brother received the message quite late because of the distances.. back in laos, you don't have phone so you travel days to send messages. anyways, when he heard the news, he took a bull and went to his sister funeral... it was too late.. because he misses the first and second day of the funeral.. it was the third day, the day of departure.. anyways, the clan and families couldn't wait any longer for the uncle, so they took our mother out... about half way to the (cemetery), uncle eventually showed up. too late, he then has to sacrifice the bull at the field where the families laid mother in the sun.

with that, we are then known as the TSWB TSHAB.. or CHUE CHA.. kind of sound like sunbathe. LOL very long story..

about the TIGER ONE.. long story as well.

POM are the majority.. they are one of the biggest Lauj clans. they place their dead inside the house.. i don't know if they belong to the first wife or second wife.

SIAB QHAIs... they cannot eat the meat of the sacrifice bulls... the whole clan cannot eat it.. only outsiders.. long stories as well..

Yes, my great grandpa was like a dad to kia tong.. my dad told me when kia tong was young, he tripped or something and my grandpa has to carried him...

I need to clear my head.. too much right now.. i wish i can talk to you in person.. it would be much easier to tell.

Really quick and insufficient reply but:

Oh my gosh!
Your words just triggered a flashback...
When I was a just a little girl listening in on family stories, I remember my dad and uncles saying our gramps being carried by someone. I think that gramps was Kiatong!

Anyway check your PM box for 2 msgs.

LOL.. yes, my dad told me stories of kiatong...
i believe that person carrying kiatong is my great grandpa. LOL
ahahah

I find this fascinating. Do tell your stories.

hmmm. i couldn't help noticing that but the thao clans are also descended from one father, but with three different wives
1st wife is hmong which was a vang the second wife was chinese and the last wife was some sort of ppl i'd never heard of. my family descended from the 1st wife so that made me a full blooded hmong. this story was told by my grandfather from Laos. He was a general for vang pao once now he resides in laos living in peace. out from his story hmong ppl in laos are doing okay. the killing in the jungle? must be chao fa he says. anyhow yeah the thao clan too are split into three categories. some of my far distant cousins are from the chinese mother. my grandfather says you can tell the difference when you see how the way their habit and raising children resembles the chinese way. i think the youngest wife could of been of the Dong tribe. the name sounded almost the same.

Miêu tộc vào Việt Nam
Trước đấy từ năm 1815 đến 1818 đã có người Miêu chạy thoát đến cư ngụ ở Đồng Văn. Sau đó một nhóm tách ra di dân đến vùng bắc của ngọn núi Fan Si Pan, rồi bỗng dưng vài năm sau không ai tìm thấy dấu vết của họ đâu nữa, làng mạc bị bỏ hoang.

Câu chuyện thật ra rất ly kỳ có liên quan đến một tay buôn nha phiến người Tầu tên là Tôn Mã. Nhân một chuyến ghé qua Fan Si Pan để thu mua thuốc phiện, y kể cho dân làng nghe về một vùng đất hoang mầu mỡ ở dãy núi Xieng Khoảng phía đông nước Lào. Thực ra thì y chỉ muốn thủ lợi riêng bởi vì người Miêu lúc bấy giờ chuyên trồng cây nha phiến để bán lại. Trong chuyến buôn kế tiếp y hướng dẫn một nhóm người Miêu tiên phong được "tiểu vương" (kiatong) Lo See Pa giao cho Kue-Vue cầm đầu, tìm đến vùng gần Nong Het. Khu đất rừng thật là phì nhiêu, thế là trong vòng vài năm, họ di dân đến đấy và thiết lập làng mạc xung quanh Nong Het và để tri ân kẻ chỉ đường, họ đặt tên con sông chảy qua là Tôn Mã.

Họ sống yên ổn ở vùng đất mới được vài năm thì Lo See Pa bị bọn cướp người Hoa giết chết trong một trận tấn công vào làng không thành cốt để đoạt nha phiến. Kẻ kế vị là Lo Sue Xia vẫn thuộc giòng họ Lo. Truyền thống này vẫn được duy trì vài thập niên mãi đến khoảng 1850 có vài sự kiện gây xáo trộn: Nhóm họ Lý và nhóm họ Moua xuất hiện.

Nhóm người Miêu họ Lý, lãnh đạo bởi Lý Nghia Vue vốn ở nước Đại Lý xưa kia bị quân Thanh truy kích trong vụ nổi dậy cùng với người Hán, kéo nhau đến Nong Het lánh nạn cùng với nhóm họ Moua cầm đầu bởi Moua Kai Chong. Dĩ nhiên là họ không chịu thần phục giòng họ Lo, và vẫn giữ nguyên tiểu vương của họ. Tuy vậy Lo Sue Xia vẫn được tôn kính hơn cả.
Cùng đợt tị nạn từ khi vùng Vân-nam bị thất thủ vào năm 1860 và loạn Thái-bình bị đập tan vào năm 1863, một khối lượng đông đảo người từ Trung-quốc tràn xuống Việt-nam, trong đó có cả Miêu tộc. Bọn họ là đám tàn quân nên còn mang theo vũ khí, đi cướp phá mạn thượng du Đồng Văn, Yên Minh và Quản Bá, miền bắc nước ta dưới triều Tự Đức, nên sử ghi là giặc khách. Mạn Tuyên-Quang có Nông hùng Thạc, mạn Cao bằng có Ngô Côn và Lý hợp Thắng chiếm tỉnh lỵ năm 1865. Về sau có dư đảng là bọn Hoàng sùng Anh, hiệu cờ vàng và Lưu vĩnh Phúc, hiệu cờ đen, Bàn văn Nhị, hiệu cờ trắng cùng với giặc biển tên Phụng liên tục quấy phá khắp nơi ở miền Bắc .

Lúc bấy giờ tình hình nước ta thật điêu đứng với giặc ngoại xâm, trong nam thì đã bị quân Pháp chiếm, mà chúng còn đang hăm he đặt nền bảo hộ và đánh Bắc kỳ. Ngoài bắc thì đám giặc khách uy hiếp làm quan quân ta chống đỡ không nổi. Riêng giặc ở thượng du đã có lúc tràn xuống tận Yên Bái vùng đồng bằng sông Hồng. Vua Tự Đức phong cho Nguyễn Tri Phương làm Tây-bắc tổng-thống quân-vụ đại-thần đốc thúc việc tảo trừ, năm 1863 quân ta tái chiếm thành Tuyên-Quang. Miêu tộc rút lui về Quảng Bá.

Tại núi Phước ở Quảng Bá lại xuất hiện một thủ lãnh người Miêu tên là Xiong, với tài nhào lộn và phi thân rất giỏi, tự xưng là tân vương của Miêu tộc. Các sắc dân thiểu số khác trong vùng như Mán và Nùng cũng thần phục y, gây một thế lực rất lớn. Chỉ trừ giống Thổ là chống đối. Y xây lâu đài, dựng triều đình, lập quân đội, làm vũ khí với súng hỏa mai. Xiong liền đem quân tấn công tàn phá Làng Dận và vùng cư dân lớn hơn khác của người Thổ gần Quảng Bá. Chiến thắng này làm tăng thêm uy danh của Xiong. Trong vòng 12 năm sau, y giao việc hành quân cướp phá các vùng lân cận cho thuộc hạ, còn y thì chỉ vui hưởng tại cung điện mà thôi.

Sau khi Xiong chết vì ám sát thì vương quốc của y cũng tan rã, kẻ kế vị là Cha Shue, một tù trưởng ở dãy núi Hoàng Su Phi. Vùng y tự trị nằm vắt qua hai biên giới Việt-Hoa, và vào năm 1894 y còn được Thanh triều phong cho chức thổ-ty. Người Pháp lúc bấy giờ đã chiếm Việt-nam làm thuộc địa cũng để yên cho Cha Shue, vì họ cần người Miêu cung cấp gỗ độc quyền cho họ. Về sau Cha Shue còn gây thế lực bằng cánh đánh thuế trên số gỗ bán cho người Pháp. Uy tín của Cha Shue còn được truyền tụng ở Nong Het.

here's the translation, I tried my best but it doesnt flow that smooth. I used Vdict to try to translate it, and i tried to edit it myself but some parts still dont make sense. also it was toooo freakin long!! .just FYI



From the previous day in 1815 to 1,818 people Mieu had run close to reside in Dong Van. Then a group of separated immigrants to the region north of the mountain Fan Si Pan, bong and then stop a few years later no one found tracts of their pain, villages are deserted.

The story is that of glass related to a trafficking addict who called Tau Ma Ton.(i couldn't make out the 1st half of this sentence,but that's what the vocab brings up, but i dont think its right) From a visit to Fan Si Pan buying them, including Health ( I don't think its about health because the term I know for health is different from what was written) for the villagers heard about a land rich in wild mountain range Xieng Laos to the east. In fact, the medical procedure only want to benefit its own people because at that time Mieu experts trees addict for sale again.In the next trafficking Health guide a group of people Mieu pioneering the "sub-king" (kiatong) See Lo Pa assigned to Kue-Vue leader, to find areas near Nong Het. Area of forest land that is fertile, so that in a few years, they migrate to the day and set up villages around Nong Het and to show their gratitude to his directions, they named the river flows through a Ton Ma.

They live in the yen on land was a few years, the Lo See Pa bon been robbed Chinese killed in a battle attack on the village failed to win bones addict. To his successors Sue Lo is still under Xia Lo looks like them. This tradition is still maintained decades to about 1,850 KM of several events causing disorder: Group and group them Ly and Moua they appear.

Mieu group of people they Ly, Ly leaders by Nghia Vue capital in the country Agencies are other troops ancient Thanh to the size of the block along with Han people, dragging each other to Nong Het lanh survivor groups, along with their leader by Moua Moua Kai Husband. Of course they are not subject to similar than they Lo, and retain their primary king. However Sue Lo Xia is still honoring all over. The same batch of refugees from the region Van-nam is that competitors in 1860 and Thai-average loan is melt beating in 1863, a large volume of people from Middle-down carry in Viet-nam, including both races Mieu . Bon they are crowd residue should also carry weapons, to destroy man robbed upper du Dong Van, Yen Minh Quan and Ba, northern our country under the Tu Duc Dynasty, so the record is more enemy. Man-Tuyen Quang has fiery Thac, man has with Cao and Li Wu Con Wins occupied the provincial capital in 1865. Last party redundancy following the four-sung Hoang Anh, the yellow flags and Luu Vinh Phuc, the black flag, you still Nhi, the white flag with the name of enemy sea Phung continuous quay destruction everywhere in the North.

At that time on the things that our country stands with foreign enemy invasion, in the southern French troops have been occupied, but they are also ham reservation basis for protection and Tonkin. In addition to the north, the enemy crowd as the guest reputation hiếp the military resistance, we are not well known. In particular enemy du aristocracy had time came to carry Yen Bai region the Red River Delta. King Tu Duc room for Nguyen Tri Phuong as the north-west of the Military-of-the-end spirit of the algae except, in 1863 our troops re-occupied Quang Tuyen. Mieu races withdraw on Quang Ba.

At the mountain in Quang Phuoc Ba appear a protagonist who Mieu called Xiong, with flabby and non-relatives is very good at, would-be king is tonnes of Mieu races. The minority ethnicities in the region as well Nung Man and spirit of Health, causing a very large forces. Only minus is the same anti-Bush relationship. Y building long term, up court, set up military, as a weapon with harquebus. Xiong linked bring troops attacked villages destroyed and Dan region residents greater than Bush's people near Quang Ba. Victories this increases the prestige Xiong. Within 12 years later, the Health assigning soldiers pillage the surrounding area belong to the lower, but the only medical enjoy fun in palaces only.

Xiong died after the assassination because the kingdom of Health also vanish, his successors are Cha Shue, a sheikh in mountains Hoang Su Phi. Health autonomous region lies across the border two-Viet Hoa, and in 1894 Health Thanh also be room for the tidal-area company. The French at that time was occupied Viet-nam made the colony also for peace for Cha Shue, because they need people to provide wood Mieu exclusive to them. Later Cha Shue also cause wing forces in taxation on wood sold to the French. The prestige of Cha Shue also be transmitted proceedings in Nong He.