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galvatron
Why they hate Singapore


http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNew...ory_266146.html
Western detractors are getting the jitters as others copy our model biggthumpup.gif

SINGAPORE is small enough to be a suburb in Beijing, but it has something in common with the mammoth People's Republic. The little red dot and Red China are both countries the West loves to hate.
There are those who wish bad things to happen to the Beijing Olympics. Likewise, there are those who have had it in for the Lion City for years.


What's eating them? The easy answer is that both China and Singapore are authoritarian states. The freedoms taken for granted in the West - freedom of speech and assembly - come with more caveats in these two places.

But things are not so simple. There are plenty of authoritarian states around, but most do not attract as much attention as Singapore and China.

The real sin: Singapore and China are examples of countries which are taking a different route to development, and look to be succeeding.

Success grates, especially when it cocks a snook at much-cherished liberal values.

As Madam Yeong Yoon Ying, press secretary to Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew, said last month: 'Singapore is an example to other countries of how the free market plus the rule of law, and stable macro-economic policies, can lead to progress and success, but without Western-style 'liberal' democracy.'

Don't believe her words? Read these lines from British journalist John Kampfner, writing in The Guardian last month, lamenting the spread of what he calls the Singapore model.

'Why is it that a growing number of highly-educated and well-travelled people are willing to hand over several of their freedoms in return for prosperity or security? This question has been exercising me for months as I work on a book about what I call the 'pact'.

'The model for this is Singapore, where repression is highly selective. It is confined to those who take a conscious decision openly to challenge the authorities. If you do not, you enjoy freedom to travel, to live more or less as you wish, and - perhaps most important - to make money. Under Lee Kuan Yew, this city-state built on a swamp has flourished economically.

'I was born in Singapore and have over the years been fascinated by my Chinese Singaporean friends. Doctors, financiers and lawyers, they have studied in London, Oxford, Harvard and Sydney. They have travelled across all continents; they are well-versed in international politics, but are perfectly content with the situation back home. I used to reassure myself with the old certainty that this model was not applicable to larger, more diverse states. I now believe this to be incorrect.

'Provincial governments in China send their brightest officials to Singapore to learn the secrets of its 'success'. For Russian politicians it too provides a useful model. These countries, and others in Asia and the Middle East are proving that the free market does not require a free society in which to thrive, and that in any battle between politics and economics, it is the latter that will win out.'

Mr Kampfner seems in a genuine intellectual funk. He cannot quite understand why otherwise normal, intelligent Singaporeans would trade certain freedoms for economic progress, and accept the Singapore political system for what it is.

But perhaps he has got the wrong end of the stick. The problem lies not in the Singaporeans, but in his own assumptions. Namely: If you speak English, if you are well-educated and well-travelled, you must also believe in Western-style democracy. They are a package.

I was on the receiving end of similar assumptions when I was in the United States in 1991-1992. When Americans asked me, 'Why is your English so good?', often it was not out of admiration but bewilderment. Their next question revealed all: 'Why then do you (i.e. your Government) ban chewing gum?'

Another telling indicator of Western assumptions about Singapore comes from a remark by Singapore's Ambassador to Washington, Professor Chan Heng Chee, who went to the US at the tail end of the Michael Fay saga.

One year into her posting there, in 1997, she arranged for a retrospective of the late choreographer Goh Choo San's works. Her Washington audience was awed.

'People suddenly remembered Choo San was a Singaporean. They may have known about Goh Choo San, but to connect him with Singapore was not so obvious for them,' she said.

Sub-text: World-class choreography does not fit their image of a country with corporal punishment.

So the real difficulty for the West is this: We are so like them, and yet so not like them. We speak, dress, do business and do up our homes very much the same way as them. Yet when it comes to political values, we settle - apparently - for much less.

One observer draws an analogy with Pavlovian behavioural conditioning. So conditioned have Westerners become to associating cosmopolitan progress with certain political parameters, they do not know how to react when they encounter a creature - Singapore - that has one but not the other.

So they chide and berate us, as if we have betrayed a sacred covenant.

Adding to the iniquity is the fact that countries - rich and powerful ones too, like Russia and the Gulf states - are looking to the Singaporean way of doing things to pick up a tip or two.

I can imagine the shudders of Singapore's Western detractors should they read about a suggestion made by Mr Kenichi Ohmae this week.

In an interview with Business Times, the Japanese management consultant who first became famous as author of The Borderless World, said Singapore should 'replicate' itself in other parts of the world.

What he meant was that Singapore should use its IQ, and IT prowess, to help organise effective economies in other regions, as its own had succeeded so well.

To be sure, his reasoning was economic, not political. But for those who hate Singapore, a Pax Singaporeana would be something to work against and head off.

BrooklynCarter
don't worry i don't hate the place....i don't even know where it is >.<
Pogpog
QUOTE(BrooklynCarter @ Aug 9 2008, 09:55 AM) *
don't worry i don't hate the place....i don't even know where it is >.<


i'm always having mixed emotions whenever i encounter some of your post...
DutchEastIndiesMan
^Me too
tangawizi
@ galvatron, great article....


QUOTE(BrooklynCarter @ Aug 9 2008, 08:55 AM) *
don't worry i don't hate the place....i don't even know where it is >.<


what can a kiwi know abt the world? u guys live amongst sheep doncha????? embarassedlaugh.gif
jenny0chen
Yes another "BE VERY AFRAID" post about the West. What else is new.
BrooklynCarter
lol right well first i odn't see it's funny and you're dissing us that we have lots of sheeps here, we actually love sheeps so shut the f*ck up ^^ plus we are not dumb. it's why we go to school, to learn sh!t about other countries ^^ thank you.. icon_wink.gif
Goombaking209
Kiwi? Sheep? I don't see the correlation.



tangawizi
^ dude not that Kiwi! this Kiwi bird that's facing extinction :



embarassedlaugh.gif

And there's SHEEP EVERYWHERE IN NEW ZEALAND...

it's SHEEP Country!





What's the correlation? Sheep country and a bird that faces extinction? Nothing good and exciting has come out from NZ xept for Lord of the Rings and a bunch of crappy action serials... embarassedlaugh.gif
Sumpit
Hey hey Tanga... don't be dizzing New Zealand!
Aotearoa rocks!! Love my friends out there! AKL rules!


Anyway.
I don't hate Singapore.. even though I hate the law I still love it :s
It's good to be that strict, people need that to stay good. S'pore is cleaaan.
I love to shop over there, eat, see my friends etc. so there's no reason for me to hate it.
I don't care what the west thinks of it, like they rule the world (yeah right, my @$$)
Too bad Singapore s such a small country..
gotta give props to their development!
yhellothar
QUOTE
Yes another "BE VERY AFRAID" post about the West. What else is new.


Yes another "me rove western rong time!" post about the East. What else is new.
tangawizi
QUOTE(Sumpit @ Aug 10 2008, 01:20 PM) *
Hey hey Tanga... don't be dizzing New Zealand!
Aotearoa rocks!! Love my friends out there! AKL rules!


Anyway.
I don't hate Singapore.. even though I hate the law I still love it :s
It's good to be that strict, people need that to stay good. S'pore is cleaaan.
I love to shop over there, eat, see my friends etc. so there's no reason for me to hate it.
I don't care what the west thinks of it, like they rule the world (yeah right, my @$)
Too bad Singapore s such a small country..
gotta give props to their development!


thx for the thumbsup for s'pore! i am juz giving our nz fren a taste of what it feels like when ur own country's been dissed about.

about the article.... i think its true how highly mobile and hip singaporeans no longer tout the liberal western line when it coes to the crunch. but having said that, many have chosen to migrate to liberal countries like the usa or australia.....even nz!! so, i think the article is a little bit of propaganda as well bythe govt ... laugh
BrooklynCarter
tangawizi what the f*ck your name is.. i don't a give damn about what you think of my country because your asian countries aren't the best either. so keep talking bullcrap ^^ yes we have lots of sheeps here but i can't see one in my area which means they are all in the green fields ^^ the kiwi bird is so cute, i don't know why you're trying to diss the animal. i love animals so SCREW THE F*CK OUT OF YOU ^^ GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM BECAUSE WE DON'T WELCOME FOREIGNERS HERE ^^
tangawizi
Miss Brook (watever yr name is), I've frens from NZ who are great people with a funny sense of humour and enjoy being with all folks of different creeds and colors. None of them are like you, an anti-Asian racist and bigot.

ALL YOU'D DONE IN THIS THREAD IS TO PUT ALL KIWIS to shame with your stupidity and low-class attitude...please crawl back under the rock u came from... embarassedlaugh.gif
kumanddie
QUOTE(BrooklynCarter @ Aug 11 2008, 10:56 AM) *
tangawizi what the f*ck your name is.. i don't a give damn about what you think of my country because your asian countries aren't the best either. so keep talking bullcrap ^^ yes we have lots of sheeps here but i can't see one in my area which means they are all in the green fields ^^ the kiwi bird is so cute, i don't know why you're trying to diss the animal. i love animals so SCREW THE F*CK OUT OF YOU ^^ GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM BECAUSE WE DON'T WELCOME FOREIGNERS HERE ^^




Brook. Good job mate...... fu-k them off.
drakuli
OMG, what's wrong with this brook dude here??? :p

(S)He dissing about other country but can't take a joke about his/her own country? Oh, actually, tanga make fun of you, not NZ, lol. embarassedlaugh.gif

Btw, she took her nick from a beer brewed from ginger, a liquor from Africa. tanga, CMIIW. beerchug.gif
BrooklynCarter
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Aug 11 2008, 04:09 PM) *
Miss Brook (watever yr name is), I've frens from NZ who are great people with a funny sense of humour and enjoy being with all folks of different creeds and colors. None of them are like you, an anti-Asian racist and bigot.

ALL YOU'D DONE IN THIS THREAD IS TO PUT ALL KIWIS to shame with your stupidity and low-class attitude...please crawl back under the rock u came from... embarassedlaugh.gif

oh i have..? lol well good on me then ^^ i don't judge people based on what colour they are but a lot of asians from asia think they can talk bullcrap about anyone with anything just because we're white when in general, them asians have always wanted our light skin which by the way is very very sad and hilarious. hahahaha no don't deny it because i learn these stuff at school too ya know.. icon_wink.gif and i do judge people i wouldn't have dated a black guy and an asian guy. i wouldn't be friends with any of them icon_wink.gif i've got an attitude..? lol cool! at least i've got one, do you? HAHAHAHAHAHA

QUOTE(kumanddie @ Aug 11 2008, 07:14 PM) *
Brook. Good job mate...... fu-k them off.

they are already f*cked up ^^ sos.. i can't stand them asians sometimes

QUOTE(drakuli @ Aug 13 2008, 03:31 AM) *
OMG, what's wrong with this brook dude here??? :p

(S)He dissing about other country but can't take a joke about his/her own country? Oh, actually, tanga make fun of you, not NZ, lol. embarassedlaugh.gif

Btw, she took her nick from a beer brewed from ginger, a liquor from Africa. tanga, CMIIW. beerchug.gif

a joke..? there's a difference between a good laugh and a negative sh!t? which one..? ^^ lol
yhellothar
lol, you don't have light skin compared to Northern Asians. You're kinda pink and peach, like a dead pig.

What Asian women want is porcelain skin with a certain amount of reflectance. Whites are dull. I'm not just talking about skin tone either.
BrooklynCarter
QUOTE(yhellothar @ Aug 13 2008, 05:06 PM) *
lol, you don't have light skin compared to Northern Asians. You're kinda pink and peach, like a dead pig.

What Asian women want is porcelain skin with a certain amount of reflectance. Whites are dull. I'm not just talking about skin tone either.

we don't have white skin? hahahahha wow you're blind!!! ^^ the only pink in us are our vagina and our cheeks. sometimes we caucasians are very white that we have a clear face which is better than pink ^^ asians are not white, they are brown! ^^
yhellothar




if that's not peach or pink what is it? maybe you are colorblind as well as retarded?
BrooklynCarter

they are white ^^ or are they black? hahahahahahhahaha


here's your typical asian person
ChuckieAkenz
HAHAHAHAAHAHAH! THis is the funniest thread on AF. embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif
yhellothar
QUOTE
here's your typical asian person


I'm sure you would know since you've never left your country

You're stupid.
flipcombatmedic
I'm pretty sure this person is:

1. Chinese
2. want to associate with Chinese

Love to hate? Singapore is the only SEAsian nation that would never be chastised by the West. Even Philippines have its share including the recent killing of journalist. Singapore is modernized thus it share a lot of 'Western' amenities and flare, the fact that the whole city-state is run like a modern capitalist company under a CEO is something neocons could only dream of.
Najjiah
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Aug 10 2008, 09:09 PM) *
Miss Brook (watever yr name is), I've frens from NZ who are great people with a funny sense of humour and enjoy being with all folks of different creeds and colors. None of them are like you, an anti-Asian racist and bigot.

ALL YOU'D DONE IN THIS THREAD IS TO PUT ALL KIWIS to shame with your stupidity and low-class attitude...please crawl back under the rock u came from... embarassedlaugh.gif

you should see the random stupid $hit she posts on other chat areas. really... she is quite a character. makes we wonder if there is inbreeding going on in NZ.
ilu
QUOTE(Najjiah @ Aug 14 2008, 08:38 AM) *
you should see the random stupid $hit she posts on other chat areas. really... she is quite a character. makes we wonder if there is inbreeding going on in NZ.

embarassedlaugh.gif
tangawizi
NZs are great folks, they've got the great warriors like the maori. Too bad, we have to deal with a stupid a.ss like Mrs BrooklynCarter who can't shed her racist attitudes towards asians who are bringing lots more than just brains and investments into their country, than all of their sheep put together.. biggrin.gif

@ flip, SG is a neocon's dream come true??? Faaaaack... neva thought of it that way.... how do u base your view on that point? If that's really a benchmark, then so would China's, Russia's model be the neoconic dream come thru as well, no?
yhellothar
the neocon wetdream as far as I know is iran

they invaded iraq so they could smuggle themselves through the border under bushels of hay
Darkblade
QUOTE(BrooklynCarter @ Aug 13 2008, 01:48 AM) *

they are white ^^ or are they black? hahahahahahhahaha


here's your typical asian person


How bout these:




I never call european white, I always call them pink, pinky cuz they are not white ~ this is white:

BrooklynCarter
QUOTE(yhellothar @ Aug 13 2008, 09:30 PM) *
I'm sure you would know since you've never left your country

You're stupid.

hahahahahaha whether i have or have not. i have travelled and met asian people ^^ yes in real life! i could go on and on but i'd rather not ^^ so the asian people overseas aren't asians anymore? hahahahahahah

QUOTE(tangawizi @ Aug 14 2008, 04:10 PM) *
NZs are great folks, they've got the great warriors like the maori. Too bad, we have to deal with a stupid a.ss like Mrs BrooklynCarter who can't shed her racist attitudes towards asians who are bringing lots more than just brains and investments into their country, than all of their sheep put together.. biggrin.gif

@ flip, SG is a neocon's dream come true??? Faaaaack... neva thought of it that way.... how do u base your view on that point? If that's really a benchmark, then so would China's, Russia's model be the neoconic dream come thru as well, no?

are you saying i'm the only non-asian racist person here..? oh alright i am but what about your fellow asians around here? some of the people in af are pure racist ^^ i've got every right to voice my opinion.
Dyluck
^ foo real you tell em Brooklyn...some people here are douche bag anyway lol trying to act all nice and shiat about their country but in reality no one give a sh*t lmao..."EVERY MEN FOR HIMSELF!" I lulz @ asian should be united thread...bullcrap
Darkblade
Racist + idiot = bad combo, that matters alot.
yhellothar
QUOTE
oh alright i am


Nobody cares that you're racist. Most of you are, including your cousin, Mom, and uncle, Dad.

The main problem is that you're an idiot and 99% of the $hit you post is retarded.
fatman
this thread is for the lulz
Mangafan2
QUOTE(BrooklynCarter @ Aug 9 2008, 07:55 AM) *
don't worry i don't hate the place....i don't even know where it is >.<




Anyway it's a first that I hear people bashing Singapore.
Doesn't suprise me it comes from the USA.

I only hear good stuff about it.
Great clean modern wealthy country.
I've always seen Singapore as an example of how a country should be. (only less strict)
Shandong_pao2
Brooke, you are one stupid white bit*h! I don't even know why you are here in AF Forum? Go back to your cave and raise your stupid sheep. The world is better without people like you!! I hope you gonna get kill by a cat one day.. haha!!

Back to the topic... I been to Singapore, it's very organized, at night, girls are walking on the street without having any worries about crime. Food is excellent, great nightlife, people are extremely friendly, beautiful paradise cities just outside the country (cheap & short flights).

Honestly, if I have a chance.. I will consider relocating in SG! I don't want to speak for any European Countries, but in the US.. that word "freedom".. isn't as free as you may think. Just to name a few of our problems.. we have high taxes, yet we get very little help from the government.. expensive health care, homeless everywhere, crimes everywhere, drugs are so easy to obtain, murder happens like everyday, jail is too crowded, companies no longer provide pensions, education is a joke (exclude universities), economy is on the downhill (probably will never pick it back up like the way it was), and even our passport.. we need visas to go to many countries (unlike SG).
swingdoctor
QUOTE(BrooklynCarter @ Aug 14 2008, 01:16 AM) *
hahahahahaha whether i have or have not. i have travelled and met asian people ^^ yes in real life! i could go on and on but i'd rather not ^^ so the asian people overseas aren't asians anymore? hahahahahahah
are you saying i'm the only non-asian racist person here..? oh alright i am but what about your fellow asians around here? some of the people in af are pure racist ^^ i've got every right to voice my opinion.

I don't understand what you find offensive about what Tanga has said. As far as I understand, there are more sheep in NZ then there are people. The Kiwi fruit from my understanding actually orginates from China. NZ, in Queenstown has the best burger I've ever had. NZ is a beautiful country, very scenic with very nice people, but they keep saying "sex" instead of "six". NZ makes some of the best Sav Blancs and Pinot Noirs. The all blacks are fabulous, the tall blacks are crap.
hanzahar
I just hate LKY lol
patchrag
QUOTE(hanzahar @ Sep 27 2008, 04:57 AM) *
I just hate LKY lol


Generally you need to be acquainted to someone personally to able to hate him.
Do you know him personally?
jrockerz
i hate singapore for being .....
small. not much room to move.


but
thats only 2% of my feel
how much i love from singapore.

1. Clean (in fact very clean)
2. Follow the rules.
3. respect religion.
4. very2 low rate violence and crime.
5. Lee Kuan Yew, strict leader, but his authority is fully contribute for singapore poeple.
that how leader should be.



QUOTE(Pogpog @ Aug 9 2008, 04:06 AM) *
i'm always having mixed emotions whenever i encounter some of your post...


http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...t&p=3938942

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