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DrGieL3
US can have a black President with a Hussein in his name, India have a Muslim President, Singapore have a Malay president, Peru had a Japanese President Fujimori and US can have foreigners as mayors and senators.

But in Malaysia we have just walked back that 30 years to take over South Africa's spot. I think Malaysia is the only country would go backwards on humanity development.

So, you know who are still using the Apartheid Policy for our people .... and also who did "divide and rule" policy to us ? ...... UMNOputras

QUOTE
Malaysia a Jurassic Park?
Kim Quek

Can those people thumping their chests to condemn Selangor Menteri Besar Khalid Ibrahim’s suggestion to allocate 10% of student admission of Universiti Teknologi Mara (UiTM) to non-bumiputra and foreign students please answer one simple question:

Is there a single university in the world which practices 100% racial discrimination in its student enrollment?

If there is none, shouldn’t these same people start to do some reflective thinking now as to whether it is a plus or minus for Malaysia to have this unique distinction?

Should they not contemplate whether they are proud or not so proud of this ‘achievement’?

Should they not be concerned of what the rest of the world might think of a country that is still fanatically defending its policy of total racial discrimination in its highest seat of learning when the whole world has either abandoned or criminalized racial discrimination of all kinds? Are they not worried that Malaysia may soon acquire the image of ‘Jurassic Park’ or ‘Lost World’ of this globalised age?

Yes, I use the word ‘fanatically’ because the outburst against Khalid’s suggestion was swift, vituperative, irrational, racist and spearheaded by top UMNO leaders and reverberated down to UiTM students who gathered in the thousands to protest in front of Khalid’s office. Vocal assailers include unfortunately the minister of higher education Khaled Nordin and UiTM vice-chancellor Ibrahim Abu Shah; and vitriolic criticisms include ‘selling out Malay special privileges’, ‘insult to his own race’, and ironically even ‘playing with racial sentiments’.

Surprisingly, even the Constitution was brought in to defend UiTM’s 100% racial discrimination policy, displaying wide-spread ignorance of the Constitution. Vice-chancellor Ibrahim specifically referred to Article 153 of the Constitution as legal basis for his refusal to open the door of UiTM to other races. Whereas the reverse is true – Article 153 only empowers the Yang di-Pertuan Agong to request for the reservation of such proportion of position as deemed reasonable for the Malays and natives of Sabah and Sarawak in educational institutions funded by the government. Coupled with Article 8 which prohibits discrimination of any kind on the ground of race, UiTM’s 100% racial policy is clearly unconstitutional.

The fanatical zeal displayed by the ruling party (UMNO) in condemning even the tiniest opening of its mono-racial institution to others in this multi-racial nation half a century after independence is undoubtedly a terrible indictment on the miserable failure of nation-building carried out by the only ruling power this nation has ever known – UMNO.

It should be pointed out that this UiTM fiasco is the latest in a long string of world renowned scandals that have shamed this country in a short spell of time – starting with the Lingam tape that reveals our judicial rot, the Mongolian high-level murder trial that drills on endlessly and aimlessly, the Anwar sodomy frame-up saga II which symbolises the regime’s moral bankruptcy, the violent disruption of Bar Council forum on family problems arising from conversion to Islam that displays religious intolerance. What alarms the public even more is that these scandals seem to roll in with increasing frequency and speed, destroying what little trust and confidence the people may still have with the government. Are we as a nation already in the reverse gear sliding into an abyss?

With these self-destructive maneuvers, apparently self-engineered for its own political survival, UMNO is actually stretching the political and social fabric of the nation to danger zone. How then could Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi in all honesty announce that the country “is doing quite well in terms of the economic fundamentals” when the economy is already deeply troubled with slumping demand amidst spiraling inflation in an ambience of administrative incompetence, and escalating political turmoil and uncertainty?

The latest two incidents – Bar Council forum and UiTM enrollment – appear to be linked to the imminent Permatang Pauh by-election through which Anwar Ibrahim is planning to make his grand return to Parliament. It is apparent that UMNO is hell bent to scrape and exploit every bit of potential religious and racial friction and blow it up to inflame the primordial instincts of the 70% Malay electorate in the Permatang Pauh constituency. Its policy seems to be: There is no price too high for UMNO to retain power, including stoking the fire of racial hatred and religious animosity that may eventually rift the nation apart.

The nation must decide whether it can tolerate such an incumbent political power to continue to hold the reign of government. And that collective decision, if in the negative, can be put into effect (to a significant extent) by the electorate of Permatang Pauh by giving Anwar Ibrahim a resounding victory.
kumanddie
QUOTE(DrGieL3 @ Aug 15 2008, 06:24 PM) [snapback]3871855[/snapback]
US can have a black President with a Hussein in his name, India have a Muslim President, Singapore have a Malay president, Peru had a Japanese President Fujimori and US can have foreigners as mayors and senators.

But in Malaysia we have just walked back that 30 years to take over South Africa's spot. I think Malaysia is the only country would go backwards on humanity development.

So, you know who are still using the Apartheid Policy for our people .... and also who did "divide and rule" policy to us ? ...... UMNOputras


Singapore President is an Indian. Please check your fact.
fatman
Singapore's first president is a Malay lah.
Esfandiari
QUOTE(DrGieL3 @ Aug 15 2008, 05:24 AM) [snapback]3871855[/snapback]
US can have a black President with a Hussein in his name, India have a Muslim President, Singapore have a Malay president, Peru had a Japanese President Fujimori and US can have foreigners as mayors and senators.

But in Malaysia we have just walked back that 30 years to take over South Africa's spot. I think Malaysia is the only country would go backwards on humanity development.

So, you know who are still using the Apartheid Policy for our people .... and also who did "divide and rule" policy to us ? ...... UMNOputras


A black US President? Not yet DrGieL3! What we have now is the first NOMINATED US black Presidential candidate in US 300-year history. Jesse Jackson was the first black US Presidential candidate many years ago but he was never nominated by the Democratic Party.

Barack Hussein Obama will be the first US black President ONLY if he is elected in the upcoming US Presidential Elections in 2008. So, please stop twisting facts, there isn't a black US President yet! And if Obama does become President, that will the first US black President in 300 years of US history as an independent country. In the mean time it's still the WHITE House standing there in Pennsylvania Avenue in the District of Columbia!

Malaysia has been independent for only 50 years, so non-Malays in Malaysia must be patient like blacks in America and wait for next 300 years to be Malaysia's first non-Malay Prime Minister..

Singapore has a Malay President? You're twisting fact again! Singapore HAD a Malay President, only once, when Singapore was a part of Malaya and Malaysia. Yusof Ishak was Singapore's Yang Di Pertuan Negara in 1959 when Singapore was a part of Malaya and remained so while Singapore was still a part of Malaysia.

But when Singapore became independent in 1965, Yusof automatically became President of Singapore when Lee Kuan Yew decided to change the title of the ceremonial post from Yang Di Pertuan Negara to President. But Yusof was merely serving out his pre-independence remaining term. After Yusof, Singapore NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again picked up a MALAY President, a sign of anti-Malay racism by the Chinese of Singapore???

Singapore's next Presidents were Benjamin Sheares (a Eurasian), Chengara Veetil Devan Nair (an Indian), Wee Kim Wee (a Chinese) and current President Ong Teng Cheong (a Chinese).

So what Singaporean MALAY President are you talking about DrGieL3? Twisting fact again huh? Just to make Malaysia's Malays look bad? It doesn't look like Singapore is going to have A MALAY President in the next 1000 years! I bet my fanny!!

Esfandiari
QUOTE(DrGieL3 @ Aug 15 2008, 05:24 AM) [snapback]3871855[/snapback]
US can have a black President with a Hussein in his name, India have a Muslim President, Singapore have a Malay president, Peru had a Japanese President Fujimori and US can have foreigners as mayors and senators.

But in Malaysia we have just walked back that 30 years to take over South Africa's spot. I think Malaysia is the only country would go backwards on humanity development.

So, you know who are still using the Apartheid Policy for our people .... and also who did "divide and rule" policy to us ? ...... UMNOputras


Fujimori the first Japanese in Peru? True! But Fujimori has completely assimilated with Spanish-speaking Peruvian majority. Fujimori is Japanese only in name. Culturally, he is a true Peruvian. His mother tongue is Spanish, not Japanese, he can't speak Japanese. His culture is Peruvuan, not Japanese. He even has a Spanish name affixed to his Japanese name: ALBERTO FUJIMORI.

But you the Malaysian Chinese refuse to assimilate like Fujimori did in Peru. You insist on being Chinese first and Malaysian second. You insist on protecting and preserving your Chineseness, you even threaten to go to war against Malays of Malaysia if you are forced to assimilate and not allowed to keep sticking out as Chinese! Lots of Malaysia-born Chinese today still cannot speak Malay or speak Malay very badly because they refuse to accept it as national language in the true meaning of acceptance. They insist on sending 90% of their kids to Chinese vernacular schools so that when these kids grow up they can't or refuse to assimilate with Malays. You don't have to go to Peru. Just look at Thailand. Thaksin is Chinese and still gets to be Thailand's PM because he has completely assimilated with the Thais. So, are you Chinese of Malaysia like the Japanese of Peru or the Chinese of Thailand? Answer these questions before you start demanding for rights to be PM of Malaysia or anything like that.

No, Malaysia is not an apartheid country and we haven't regressed 30 years back as you are slandering Malaysia. You Malaysian Chinese want to have your cake and eat it it too. You want the best of all worlds in Malaysia but refuse to assimilate like all the Fujimoris and the Thaksins have done, and yet you are demanding too much..

I'm not an UMNOputra but I still disagree with you. PKR or PAS or UMNO members, Malays are all united on some important issues vis-a-vis Chinese. UMNOputras? PASputras? PKRputras? We are all Malays. Except Farish Noor, Raja Petra Kamaruddin, Zainah Anwar, Zaitun Kassim, Askiah Adam.
nasilemang
I don't give a damn what non-malay think about Malaysia. They are meaningless at the most only whining.
Malaysia fate and future in the hand of Malays.
Esfandiari
QUOTE(nasilemang @ Aug 29 2008, 02:36 AM) [snapback]3898804[/snapback]
I don't give a damn what non-malay think about Malaysia. They are meaningless at the most only whining.
Malaysia fate and future in the hand of Malays.


Don't be too sure about Malaysia always being in the hands of Malays nasilemang! Many non-Malays (read: Chinese!), with help from liberal secular Malays, are scheming to take over Malaysia. When that happens, you and I will have to pack up and "go back" to Indonesia or Madagascar!! These Chinese are already telling us Malays to go back to Indonesia although I really dislike Indonesia and don't feel any connection with it at all, certainly Indonesia is and never was my so-called "mother country"!! The idea of Indonesia being a "mother country" for Malaysian Malays, as insinuated by many Malaysian Chinese, is simply yucky and really will make me puke!!

Anwar Ibrahim and his liberal secular Malay friends are already planning to hand over Malaysia to non-Malays. I don't worry about non-Malays and their whining: I am more worried about the liberal secular Malays who, in the name of "kesamarataan", will hand over our land to the non-Malays...
DutchEastIndiesMan
^I don't think we want you here....nor any of your friends....
Not sure about Madagascar though....
sonofgunongjerai
Yikes, going back to Indonesia??? What the hell Indonesia connections with Malay? Their language even different from Malay, not only different but totally different! I bet Javanese will kick Malay out from Java Land because they are not Malay and Malay are not Javanese!

Tis is as much as they are asking Cambodian go back to Philippine too. Cambodian friends, just because you look like a Filipino with brown or tanned skin, and you also have words in common with Filipino such as "Anak", you have to go back to Philippine?

Ridiculous, well yes we can say go back to a person who's originating from a place that are certain like from Tamil Nadu or from Kuong Tong or Hok Kian. What do you expect a Lao person will say to others about his ancestry when he is an American? Can he say that he is a native Red Indian or a White, or a Black? He will still say that he is from Laos even his citizenship is American, that is not ethnical identity but citizenship. What about Thais? Tai people who inhabit Thai-Land today are not the early inhabitants of Thai-Land. Thai-Land was inhabited by Mon people in the West part, Khmer Krom people in the East part and Muslim and Buddhist Malays in deep south even until today. Tai people are from South China, particularly from Yunnan, Guang-Sai and Xi-An area today before driven out from China by Hans and the name China was derived from the name of Qin Shi Huang Ti.

Malaysia is unlike Australia. Aborigines in Australia didn't established any kingdom in ancient time, why don't people say go back to English settlers in US or Australia? They just arrived there around 18th C - 19th C in Australia and American continent. Malays had established kingdoms in ancient time and had already established in pre-historic times and recognized by ancient Chinese courts. There are many kingdoms in Malay Land, which Malays that should go back to Indonesia? Kelantanese Malays anyone, what do you say about going back to Indonesia? Do you have any ancestry lines links you to Indonesia? I am a Kedahan Malay, some of my relatives might married with Indonesians but for me. I do not have any relation with Indonesia at all, nor do I speak Indonesian or their tribal languages such as Achehnese, Rawa, Javanese, Sundanese. I do not know anything about their culture nor languages. If we go back to Indonesia, where should we go? We are not certain about our originating place, like non-Malays they know that they are from Kuong-Tong, Hok-Kian, Tamil Nadu in Pondicherry, Palaikattu, etc through their mother tongue. Where can we find any place that speak Kelantanese in Madura? Weird ideas

Non-Malays still have customs which are in-parallel and speak the same language with those people in Kuan-Tong, Hok-Kian, Punjab and Tamil Nadu. Except for Babas, Portuguese Malaka and Chittis, they are different and not the same with their proto-people, they are hybrid people and might had local blood.
nasilemang
QUOTE(DutchEastIndiesMan @ Aug 29 2008, 10:48 AM) [snapback]3899305[/snapback]
^I don't think we want you here....nor any of your friends....
Not sure about Madagascar though....

You said you are chinese Indonesian...
I don't think they like you there or any type of yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwJI1tU8lvU

hurt eh...
Crystallised Dream
QUOTE(nasilemang @ Aug 29 2008, 03:36 PM) [snapback]3898804[/snapback]
I don't give a damn what non-malay think about Malaysia. They are meaningless at the most only whining.
Malaysia fate and future in the hand of Malays.


Is that a pick up line? Because I hear that a lot from the Malays, as a defense.

Sorry, but your money, your food etc, everything that you live on are not purely produced by Malays. Not to mention you live off Sarawak and Sabah's (read: land of mostly non-Malay natives) natural resources, and you get the Petronas Twin Towers and gleaming new highways. The govt's thinking of making Sarawak Malaysia's new rice bowl, and soon you'll be feeding off our rice too. And yet as a non-Malay I don't make such an arrogant statement against my Malay brethrens.
Esfandiari
QUOTE(DutchEastIndiesMan @ Aug 29 2008, 10:48 AM) [snapback]3899305[/snapback]
^I don't think we want you here....nor any of your friends....
Not sure about Madagascar though....


Don't worry...neither me nor my friends have any desire to be over there in your land. In case you haven't noticed, it's a one-way traffic all this long while: Indonesians coming over to Malaysia in droves, never the other way round! Malaysia is teeming with millions of Indonesians, not just the ones looking like genetically pure breeds coming from remote virtually untouched islands of Indonesia, but also the upper crusty Indonesian artists and celebrities some of whom you guys fondly call "Indos"....they come to Malaysia like they need oxygen...but hey, I'm no xenophobic, Indonesians are welcome here! Come, come, this is the land of opportunities...so, don't worry about me going over to your land, there's still plenty of oxygen in Malaysia.

Not that I want a war with you or other Indonesians, but no need for you to get agitated Dutch! My comments about Indonesia just go to show how fed up I've become with those Malaysian Chinese (not with Indonesians!) who keep slandering that we Malays of Malaysia are immigrants from Indonesia. Worse, some say Indonesia is our "motherland"! We don't look at Indonesia like the Malaysian Chinese and Indians look towards China and India. Indonesia IS NOT a father or mother to us Malaysian Malays, so I take it as an insult when Malaysian Chinese (not Indonesians) keep harping this piece of disinformation.




Majapahitans
QUOTE(Esfandiari @ Aug 30 2008, 01:55 PM) [snapback]3901219[/snapback]
Don't worry...neither me nor my friends have any desire to be over there in your land. In case you haven't noticed, it's a one-way traffic all this long while: Indonesians coming over to Malaysia in droves, never the other way round! Malaysia is teeming with millions of Indonesians, not just the ones looking like genetically pure breeds coming from remote virtually untouched islands of Indonesia, but also the upper crusty Indonesian artists and celebrities some of whom you guys fondly call "Indos"....they come to Malaysia like they need oxygen...but hey, I'm no xenophobic, Indonesians are welcome here! Come, come, this is the land of opportunities...so, don't worry about me going over to your land, there's still plenty of oxygen in Malaysia.

Not that I want a war with you or other Indonesians, but no need for you to get agitated Dutch! My comments about Indonesia just go to show how fed up I've become with those Malaysian Chinese (not with Indonesians!) who keep slandering that we Malays of Malaysia are immigrants from Indonesia. Worse, some say Indonesia is our "motherland"! We don't look at Indonesia like the Malaysian Chinese and Indians look towards China and India. Indonesia IS NOT a father or mother to us Malaysian Malays, so I take it as an insult when Malaysian Chinese (not Indonesians) keep harping this piece of disinformation.


Yes Indonesia is not Malaysia's "motherland", its more likely to view our relationship as brothers or sisters (However Indonesia still the eldest siblings ofcourse laugh.gif ). That once upon a time in history we're a single entity, a union of myriad people of Archipelago just like what Srivijaya, Majapahit, and also Malacca (whom ruled parts of Sumatra right?) had demonstrated before the European Colonialism draw the present national boundaries.

And yes I notice for now its one way traffic..., even Indonesian celebrities love to come, perform, and work in Malaysia, nothing wrong with that, expanding their opportunities...

Hmmm, howabout Indonesians, especially Malay, Minangkabau, Aceh and Bugis, ethnicities that highly compatible with Malay in Malaysia, flocking and flooding overthere, and fixed that demographic problems once and for all, so Malay/bumiputras become undisputed majority again.
Just at tought kiss.gif
Pink Cream
QUOTE(nasilemang @ Aug 30 2008, 03:44 PM) [snapback]3900658[/snapback]
You said you are chinese Indonesian...
I don't think they like you there or any type of yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwJI1tU8lvU

hurt eh...

lol shut down beerchug.gif
sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Aug 31 2008, 06:11 AM) [snapback]3901381[/snapback]
Yes Indonesia is not Malaysia's "motherland", its more likely to view our relationship as brothers or sisters (However Indonesia still the eldest siblings ofcourse laugh.gif ). That once upon a time in history we're a single entity, a union of myriad people of Archipelago just like what Srivijaya, Majapahit, and also Malacca (whom ruled parts of Sumatra right?) had demonstrated before the European Colonialism draw the present national boundaries.

And yes I notice for now its one way traffic..., even Indonesian celebrities love to come, perform, and work in Malaysia, nothing wrong with that, expanding their opportunities...

Hmmm, howabout Indonesians, especially Malay, Minangkabau, Aceh and Bugis, ethnicities that highly compatible with Malay in Malaysia, flocking and flooding overthere, and fixed that demographic problems once and for all, so Malay/bumiputras become undisputed majority again.
Just at tought kiss.gif


I don't think that all Malays in Malayan Peninsula had anything to do with Indonesians or anybody from Indonesian territory today. Malays in Malaysia had more relation with the Mons and Khmers in Cambodia, Thailand, and Myanmar. So, there is no such issue of who is the eldest or youngest. The invasions of ancient kingdoms which are now in Indonesian territory don't prove that Indonesia is the eldest. Which Malays are you referring? Those Malays in South Malayan Peninsula like from Johore, Selangor, Melaka, or Negeri Sembilan? Yes, most of them had relationship with Sumateran and Javanese especially those in Johore and Selangor while Negeri Sembilan with Minang.

Malays from Kedah, Pahang, Perlis and Kelantan particularly in north Malayan Peninsula and East Coast of the Peninsula had nothing to do with Indonesian although many of my Kelantanese friends enjoy listening to Indonesian songs. I would rather listening to Thai songs because I hate being insulted as related to Indonesian because it is true that we have nothing to do with Indonesians, we had our own identity the same as Indonesians had their distinct identity. These northern Malays had more to do with the Khmers, Mons, Chams, and Tais although Tais are not categorized under Austronesian group.

Malay, Minang, Rawa, Mandahiling, Bukit Tinggi and Acheh can be grouped under Sumateran Malay which had something to do with Malays in Malaysia especially those Malays in West Coast of Malayan Peninsula. Bugis, Daengs are not, they are from Sulawesi to be more clear. I never see those Sumateran people rioting here in Malaysia except for Javanese from Java Island, I am sorry to say this, but this is why we Malays always feeling irritated with Javanese because they are somekind of rude. I am sure Javanese too hate people who do not respect or giving sembah to their people in their land right? Also Negeri Sembilan people demonstrate weird kind of customs which we never see as local here.
Majapahitans
Thanks for enlighten me for myriad spectrum of Malay in Malaysia.
I see Malay in Malaysia had mixture of several foreign influence.... North related to Mon, Khmer, Thai, while South/west coast were related to Malay Sumatran, also Bugis and Java. Interesting.

That eldest-youngest thingy I've mentioned earlier is meant in term of modern national maturity, which means that Republic of Indonesia is older than Federation of Malaysia, that's all. And about ancient empires (Srivijaya & Majapahit) that centered in what is now Indonesia that "invade" peninsula, is just another historical links. Don't forget peninsula based ancient empires too like Malacca also in returns conquered the islands.

Oh yeah... Javanese have wide spectrum and variations of their own too, moreover since ancient times Javanese are highly layered society (reflected in our unpractical "hierarchy" language; we have three kinds words with exactly same meaning, only different in the degree of rudeness-politeness and refinement) and Javanese were widely dispersed. Even Javanese has distinct regional dialects and characteristics. Its not quite done us justice if you judge a whole population of Javanese people by some (unfortunately) bad experience with some Javanese migrant workers that you might finds them as "rude".

I do agree with you that immigrant and guests do have to pay their respect to local customs of their hosts. That Javanese workers rioting probably due to other issues (beside the fact that migrant workers were most likely to came from humble backgrounds). They're protesting harassment by authority and exploitation by employer maybe..?
sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Sep 1 2008, 08:01 PM) [snapback]3903871[/snapback]
That eldest-youngest thingy I've mentioned earlier is meant in term of modern national maturity, which means that Republic of Indonesia is older than Federation of Malaysia, that's all.

Oh yeah... Javanese have wide spectrum and variations of their own too, moreover since ancient times Javanese are highly layered society (reflected in our unpractical "hierarchy" language; we have three kinds words with exactly same meaning, only different in the degree of rudeness-politeness and refinement) and Javanese were widely dispersed. Even Javanese has distinct regional dialects and characteristics. Its not quite done us justice if you judge a whole population of Javanese people by some (unfortunately) bad experience with some Javanese migrant workers that you might finds them as "rude".

I do agree with you that immigrant and guests do have to pay their respect to local customs of their hosts. That Javanese workers rioting probably due to other issues (beside the fact that migrant workers were most likely to came from humble backgrounds). They're protesting harassment by authority and exploitation by employer maybe..?


Undeniably true that Indonesian had reached national maturity earlier than the Federation of Malaysia.

Achehnese too are not so good here where they are related to criminal things like robbery. But yes, I agree that we should not over-generalizing. There must be positive and negative values in each of us.

Some of these people are rioting for small matters like in the Indonesian artists concert, that is so not appropriate where they had created the feeling of insecure among the locals especially when seeing them with long hair straightened without using the cream icon_neutral.gif
Esfandiari
QUOTE(Majapahitans @ Aug 30 2008, 05:11 PM) [snapback]3901381[/snapback]
Yes Indonesia is not Malaysia's "motherland", its more likely to view our relationship as brothers or sisters (However Indonesia still the eldest siblings ofcourse laugh.gif ). That once upon a time in history we're a single entity, a union of myriad people of Archipelago just like what Srivijaya, Majapahit, and also Malacca (whom ruled parts of Sumatra right?) had demonstrated before the European Colonialism draw the present national boundaries.

Just at tought kiss.gif


I have no problem in accepting Malaysia and Indonesia being brothers (although I know sonofgunongjerai will never agree with me! Sorry gunongjerai for this little divergent of opinion!). Nothing wrong in two peoples being brothers to each other if it can promote peace between them. I also have no problem in Indonesia being tagged elder brother, a recognition on my part of the vastness and diversity of Indonesia in terms of its population and culture compared to Malaysia, and its historical and cultural influences on Malaysia (and vice versa) as well as it being senior to us in getting independent and achieving sociopolitical maturity.....but if we were brothers and sisters, who would be our father and mother? Ahaaa!!

Yes, we were once a single entity in history, parts of same ancient empires, some based in what is now Indonesia, some based in what is now Malaysia. That's why the question of Malaysia and Indonesia being a father or mother to each other simply does not arise. Brothers, may be! And this is what I've kept explaining to the Malaysian Chinese some of whom are now increasingly calling Malays as foreigners and immigrants from Indonesia. I keep telling them that we and Indonesia were once a single country under single ancient kingdoms until the European colonialism came to split this single entity, the effects of which would have been as if the Europeans had split China into 2 or 3 countries...
Esfandiari
QUOTE(sonofgunongjerai @ Aug 31 2008, 08:40 AM) [snapback]3902149[/snapback]
I don't think that all Malays in Malayan Peninsula had anything to do with Indonesians or anybody from Indonesian territory today. Malays in Malaysia had more relation with the Mons and Khmers in Cambodia, Thailand, and Myanmar. So, there is no such issue of who is the eldest or youngest. The invasions of ancient kingdoms which are now in Indonesian territory don't prove that Indonesia is the eldest. Which Malays are you referring? Those Malays in South Malayan Peninsula like from Johore, Selangor, Melaka, or Negeri Sembilan? Yes, most of them had relationship with Sumateran and Javanese especially those in Johore and Selangor while Negeri Sembilan with Minang.

Malays from Kedah, Pahang, Perlis and Kelantan particularly in north Malayan Peninsula and East Coast of the Peninsula had nothing to do with Indonesian although many of my Kelantanese friends enjoy listening to Indonesian songs. I would rather listening to Thai songs because I hate being insulted as related to Indonesian because it is true that we have nothing to do with Indonesians, we had our own identity the same as Indonesians had their distinct identity. These northern Malays had more to do with the Khmers, Mons, Chams, and Tais although Tais are not categorized under Austronesian group.

Malay, Minang, Rawa, Mandahiling, Bukit Tinggi and Acheh can be grouped under Sumateran Malay which had something to do with Malays in Malaysia especially those Malays in West Coast of Malayan Peninsula. Bugis, Daengs are not, they are from Sulawesi to be more clear. I never see those Sumateran people rioting here in Malaysia except for Javanese from Java Island, I am sorry to say this, but this is why we Malays always feeling irritated with Javanese because they are somekind of rude. I am sure Javanese too hate people who do not respect or giving sembah to their people in their land right? Also Negeri Sembilan people demonstrate weird kind of customs which we never see as local here.


May be I have to disagree a bit with you here. I'm not sure if you are talking about Indonesian Javanese or Malaysian Javanese. But Malaysian Javanese are some of the nicest people. I can't say they are rude. I used to spend my college holidays following my Malaysian Javanese friends to their homes in Banting, Olak Lempit and Labuhan Dagang, even as far as Muar and Parit Sulong in Johor. These Javanese families were very friendly, courteous, hospitable and very humble. They did their best to make me feel at home.....and they fed me alot!! The only thing I couldn't understand was their speaking Javanese with each other! I miss those days! Sometime they'd joke with a pantun that goes like this: siji loro telo papat, Melayu bodoh Jawa dapat!! Hahaha! That was just a joke! And I think Javanese in Banting are also very hardworking...

About Indonesian Javanese in Malaysia now as migrant workers, I think they are better than other Indonesian tribes. Better in the sense that they are more peaceful than the Madurese, the Acehnese, the Floresans, etc. I say this from my own personal experience meeting some of these Javanese in my area where I live now. They are friendly, humble and simple people. We rarely hear gangfights among Javanese, but more among Acehnese, Floresans and Madurese. And these Javanese are good Muslims too, always filling in the suraus in my area, wearing a sarong that is a cross between batik and pelikat!!


sonofgunongjerai
QUOTE(Esfandiari @ Sep 3 2008, 01:10 PM) [snapback]3906871[/snapback]
May be I have to disagree a bit with you here. I'm not sure if you are talking about Indonesian Javanese or Malaysian Javanese. But Malaysian Javanese are some of the nicest people. I can't say they are rude. I used to spend my college holidays following my Malaysian Javanese friends to their homes in Banting, Olak Lempit and Labuhan Dagang, even as far as Muar and Parit Sulong in Johor. These Javanese families were very friendly, courteous, hospitable and very humble. They did their best to make me feel at home.....and they fed me alot!! The only thing I couldn't understand was their speaking Javanese with each other! I miss those days! Sometime they'd joke with a pantun that goes like this: siji loro telo papat, Melayu bodoh Jawa dapat!! Hahaha! That was just a joke! And I think Javanese in Banting are also very hardworking...

About Indonesian Javanese in Malaysia now as migrant workers, I think they are better than other Indonesian tribes. Better in the sense that they are more peaceful than the Madurese, the Acehnese, the Floresans, etc. I say this from my own personal experience meeting some of these Javanese in my area where I live now. They are friendly, humble and simple people. We rarely hear gangfights among Javanese, but more among Acehnese, Floresans and Madurese. And these Javanese are good Muslims too, always filling in the suraus in my area, wearing a sarong that is a cross between batik and pelikat!!


Yea, I think you are right on the Javanese although I still do not agree with big brother or related to each other, I think those who are rioting are not ethnically Javanese but of other tribes. It is just I assume that all Indonesians as Javanese because Indonesia is more to Java Centric according to what I had seen and read.

In the part that I do not agree with related to Indonesia because I have no Indonesian ancestry or maybe I can't trace the relations. Many of the people in Northern Malaysian peninsula had nothing to do with Indonesia especially those from Pendang, Baling, Kubang Pasu, Padang Besar, etc but near coastal area like in Penang and Seberang Perai, plenty of Malays there are related to Sumaterans. Yea, but it is undeniably that most Malays from West Coastal area are related to Indonesia where there might be inter-migrations during Dutch-British time.

My mother and sister had travelled to Indonesia last two years, they had experienced being asked to pay for everything when visiting the places and have to pay for people there when they want to snap pictures, even the air too is not free to breath (tis is just an exeggeration in explaining). I think Indonesian government should do something because that is not good for their tourism industry. Beside I think the difference between Indonesia and Malaysia is not small but big, Indonesia covers such a vast area. Malaysia too had been influenced by various influence in the ancient time. I prefer Bali than Java Island although Balinese are Hindus, I found that the way they speak Malay resembling Standard Malay without "bunyi Pekett" (Indonesian thick accent) biggthumpup.gif
HangPC2
Mimaland now a ghost town




Friday January 25, 2008



Story and photos by ELAN PERUMAL and STUART MICHAEL



THE once popular Mimaland Recreation Park in Gombak, Selangor, is a sorry sight in a dire state of abandonment. It has been like this for the last 15 years, after it ceased operation in 1993.

The recreation park used to be a popular premier outing destination for families in the Klang Valley.





In ruins: The rundown office of the former recreation park.


After it was closed, many people had hoped that it would be renovated and reopened as the place was a convenient site for picnics, being not too far from the city and yet having a raw natural environment, with plenty of trees and plants and a lake for swimming, fishing and boating.

The wish for its rejuvenation may not materialise in the foreseeable future as the landowner Magnum Corporation Bhd has no plan to revive and redevelop it.

According to Magnum spokesman Cheah Ho Wee Hock, there is no plan to redevelop the recreation park in the near future and the land is being kept for the purpose of investment.

“It will be sold when the right price is offered,” Cheah told StarMetro during a telephone interview.

Until it is sold, Cheah said, the land would be left idle.

This is bad news for many who are hoping that the idle park, which started operation in the 1970s, will be given a new lease of life.





Glory days over: This road leading to Mimaland used to be quite busy. Now it is in a perpetual state of disrepair.


A StarMetro team visited the area about 25km from Kuala Lumpur, along the old Gombak-Bentong road, and found that it was undergoing a natural destruction process after left without maintenance since its closure in 1993.





No longer in use: This bus stop used to be crowded with people on weekends at Mimaland in Batu 11, Gombak.


The lookout towers, the office, bus stops and pillars have been left to rot, a sad reminder of the lost wonder.

It is also learnt that two security personnel are assigned round-the-clock duty to prevent unauthorised people and vehicles from entering.

However, when StarMetro visited the area, some people were seen fishing in the lake.

It is also learnt that some people had also gone there for camping.

Some nearby villagers also claim that wild animals, including tigers, have been spotted in the green forest with their pet dogs and cats failing prey.

In the past, the park had the country's first water-slides, a Pre-historic Kingdom featuring replicas of dinosaurs and related creatures of that era, a flower nursery, chalets built on stilts (called Bagan), a lake for boating and fishing, and other attractions.

The rundown buildings and chalets are only mere reminder of glorious past of this premier recreation centre, when the city folks used to enjoy camping or staying at the cosy water front chalets with their family members.

Villager Mohd Yusof Sarman, 52, who was born and lived in the area since, said that some people had claimed that they had seen a tiger at Mimaland although he had not seen it himself.

“When Mimaland was operating, we had more income from doing business with the visitors and tourists,” he said.

“I used to sell sugar cane water, Malay cakes, nasi lemak when Mimaland was operating but had to stop business after the park was closed,” Yusof said.

He said that the village had became very quiet since then.

Dasimah Abdul Hamed, 48, who has been staying there for 34 years, recalled that the roads were very busy when Mimaland was in operation, the safety of the village children was then a prime concern.

“I also used to make quite a bit of money from a foodstall nearby then. Now, business is slow and so is the traffic,” she said.

Normalah Baharim, 20, who remembered her happy childhood days, said that she would spend all her free time at Mimaland as her father was working there.

“Because I love the park so much, I kept a head of a hippopotamus outside my house to remember my sweet old days,” Normalah said.

“I used to remember playing at the playground, staying in the chalets and hotels for free as my father works there,” she said

The Kampung Batu 11 lass said those were the best moments of her childhood and many of her friends envied her for that.

The Mimaland was opened in 1975 and ceased operation about 15 years ago following some unresolved plans for expansion.

The natural setting of the park makes it a very ideal natural holiday resort. It is certainly regrettable that such a beautiful natural recreation park should be left in such a dismal and dreadful condition.

Perhaps, some visionary entrepreneur should consider buying the place and redevelop it into a natural country resort, offering recreational activities and weekend conferences and retreats.

It is also a good place for setting up an international tertiary educational centre for environmental studies.


The signs of decay caused by being abandoned for nearly 15 years is evident.

The arch that used to hold a welcome signboard is in deplorable state with overgrown creepers. The wooden shops near the arch are in disrepair and deserted.

A road leading to the park is covered with grass and undergrowth and also damaged.

Barricade in the form of hoarding have been placed at the entrance where the remnant of the office structure can be seen from a distance.

A solitary security guard was stationed bear the entrance to prevent trespassing and encroachment by unauthorised people.




- The Star -


HangPC2













Sources : http://www.flickr.com/photos/estacado



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