I'm proud to see that people have freedom of speech in Taiwan, even if they use this freedom of speech to harm or deride Taiwan.


Imagine what would happen to people parading for "Taiwan independence" in mainland China.

why is pro-reunification is harmful for Taiwan?

They will become the majority voice in taiwan sooner than later. By that time, you will belong to that lonely goup with no loves from anywhere else.

Btw, while the unification folks do in highly civilized manner.

the DDP and the savages are clashing with the police over the chinese envoy


I am disappointed that red fox belongs to the savage group.

I am disappointed that EazyMoney stereotypes people.



At any rate, my point is, Taiwan permits people to protest in favor of reunification. Tell me how you think China would respond to protesters protesting for Taiwan independence in Shanghai or Beijing etc.?

lol do you realize how dumb you sound?

its like bragging how your parents let you take joy rides in the car when you were 10.

This is a very good question posed by someone who actually deserves to have interest in this matter.

Whether Taiwan gets annexed by China or not should be decided by the Taiwanese people and because of Taiwan's indepedence, their country gives them the right to express such an opinion.

Whether North Korea get annexed by South Korea or not should be decided by Chosun people. Hangok should stop trying to bring the regime down. It constitus aggression. NK has northing to do with SK to begin with. North Korea is not only an independent state totally seperated from South Korea. Both NK and SK are internationally recognized sovereign states with two Constitutions recognize the existence of TWO KOREAS.

The situation of China and Taiwan is totally different from that regard. Both PRC and ROC Constitutions recoginze there is only ONE CHINA and ONE SOVEREIGN. There is no need for annexation. It's ONE all alone uner the international laws. Beat that! That's why Taiwan's Constituion is called ONE CHINA CONSTITUTION. Korean idoits never don't understand that Chinese-Taiwanese relationship is ONE SOVEREIGN with TWO ADMINISTRATIVE ENTITIES. NK-SK relationship is TWO SOVEREIGNS and TWO ADMINISTRATIVE ENTITIES. NK-SK relationship is no different from NK-China relationship. It's an international relationship.

You're a retard.

Still a question of power. Even if the PRC annexed the ROC illegally...what would that actually mean in real terms?

The question is not whether a Taiwanese citizen has the right to advocate Chinese annexation of Taiwan voluntarily. The answer is yes, because Taiwan is a free country. But the world (especially East Asia) should not watch silently as Taiwanese are forced to be annexed involuntarily. Even under duress, which we have been for over half and century, the Taiwanese people still has the right to decide not to be annexed by China.

It's always possible in the realm of international politics.

Well said.

sigh, i don't even know if taiwan should reunifies or chooses independent. ether way is fine.

Support what's best for your people...

Economically, culturally, politically? The choice should be yours, especially if you chose to go back and live there.

if taiwan goes for indepedent, it's possible we may lose our chinese heritage. there are rumor that taiwan may not using mandarin as national standard language... if taiwan moves toward independent.

but if taiwan goes for unification, we lose our uniqueness (freedom being the most important) and as well as being absorbing into massive China.

i don't know, i go with the majorities.

lol...your uniqueness? I guess that makes Taiwan so much more different than Taiwan.

while the people in China have some sort of freedom, it is still far away from other democractic country. don't you agree?

In democratic countries protesters are not labled as savages. They're just protesters. and it is a ridiculous to try to sort out their affiliations or inspect their political ideology.

Oh I know in China you simply call dissidents and protesters "Fa Lung Gong cult" and other names. Either they're too fierece that you have to mow them down with tanks and machine guns, or they're too tamed that you can just harvest their kidneys.

As for what happend in Taiwan in recent days, I can post more bloody pictures of citizens getting beaten and kicked, private property busted in without search warrents. Dozens of police get beaten so what. They are armed with batons and body armors, which are paid for by tax payers. Hell they shouldn't even need to carry batons. They have tear gas' pepper spray and water cannons, which they're SUPPOSED TO USE BUT ORDERED NOT TO. This idiot called Ma personally presided over the deployment of police force(using the reouses of his National Security Council!!). He managed to turn two deacades of free society back into a facist, police state(yes like today's China) overnight.

It was so obvious that Ma wanted to see blood, and he shall have blood. Somehow overseas Chinese and those living in Taiwan had this incorrect notion that democracy and freedom of speech in Taiwan were generously granted by the old facist KMT. In fact 20 years ago KMT had to bow to civil disobedience, confrontation with Gestapo, lock-downs, hunger strikes, raasta roko and even self-immolations. You name it. It looks like KMT forgot their lessons too quickly.

But i'm not going to post those pictures.

i dont get it...can we list specific things these democratic countries allow that China doesnt?

besides letting people riot like thugs and hooligans with no class?

first thing first.

#1 - can publicly call Taiwan president a "horse" lol

anyway seriously, national day voting, multi-party rule, freedom of press.. be honest, China doesn't have what i mention.

Just a question for InitialDJay.. no offense but, if i remember correctly your not even Taiwanese and don't consider yourself one. I think you identify with the whole ROC sun-yet-san doctorine..Your parents left China after 1949 and used to live in Taiwan for some time but not anymore.. Is that correct? If so, how can you loose your Chineseness for what

And I cannot believe that your making a bit deal out of mandarin. So ignorant. Mandarin is just the language spoken by those from northern China, which is just one of the Chinese dialects anyway. People from Hongkong and Canton speak cantonese, those from Taiwanese speak Taiwanese (or Hokkien if you wish). What's the big deal. Stop having this vicarous fear that any minority group will be persecuted. Remeber it was KMT who persecuted Taiwanese in an attempt to wipe out Hokkien, Hakka and aboriginal languages and heritage. Now you're worried that Taiwanese want to get even with "waisenren?" C'mon you must be joking.

national day voting....the point of voting is to choose someone you want into office correct? Chinese heavily favors their gov, its what they want. in that sense, goal is accomplished.

multi party rule is inefficient and slows things down. minority gov sometimes cant get anything done. its a waste of time.

freedom of press is a valid point. id like an example of something freedom of press would have exposed. like...is it something westerners know that chinese people dont? they know about baby milk, leaders running away with money....what issues do the chinese people not know about?

I don't know who is retard. Are you a Taiwanese? A Taiwanese * wink * * wink * right here teaching you Taiwanese and Korean politics. Get it?

Ya wahtever.....99.999999% ben-sheng people are not fit for politics. They should do what they are good at such as doing business. Taiwanese Independence is now pretty much a dead clause that only a bunch of southern Taiwan illiterates and a few ben-sheng elites are suppoting it. Most of Taiwanese middle class will stay ten light poles aways from the idoitic movement. That's the reason why those TIers turned violent in other days.

Dude, no one but you is talking about Korean politics... Once again, to any half intelligent individual on this forum, you and your posts are retarded.

let me clear again, my dad lefts China. we left Taiwan, i don't live in Taiwan so i don't consider myself taiwanese despite i have birth certificate and citizenship there. so not a big deal to me, when i identify myself, i identified my ethnicity first, nationality second.

also although i'm pro-china, it doesn't mean i don't care what's going on in taiwan. i still have a bunch of relative living in taiwan. for my family interest, i prefer no war, stay at status quo to satisfy everybody. duh

i know, i speak hokkien with my mum, mandarin with my dad, english with my sister. thats not the point i'm trying to make. despite we have local dialect, mandarin is still the national langauge and mandarin is a language created in China. thats the whole points... if you don't want to be consider chinese, don't speak mandarin, find another languages like spanish, english, or maybe japanese to learn in school.



i don't know if thats what the people want. is there any poll showing what chinese people prefer at all? i think it gets block regardless if a poll was being made.

there are "information" that is not available to China public because CCP blocks it. tiananmen square, execution of falun gong members to name a few. i think the young chinese mainlander really don't know anything about these sensitive issue. they heard about it but they don't know what's going on. even myself, i don't even know what's going on until last year. lol

who says Koreans can't participate in Taiwanese forum, or any forum?

And luckily Taiwanese military has always been contorlled by wai-sheng people. TIers will kill off Wai-sheng population if they ever have a chance to contorl the military. You can tell from the way they acted in the protest a few days ago. They also acted the same way right after 228 until the KMT sent troops over Taiwan from mainland. Now these filthy Ben-Sheng politicians still lie about the event and accuse how Wai-Sheng military masscred Ben-Sheng people in 228. It's quite disgusting.

When an idoitic nation that cannot even solve its own division problem, it's better for you just read something you don't understand than debate it.

Apparently, Atomic, aka bushsmart aka ouou, who was banned twice, is only capable of attacking my ethnicity whenever I try to add some objective comments about the thread topic...





I wonder how long it will take for you to get banned again... and this time I won't even have to try. lol.

why don't you go back to K-chat?are you lonely over there? Why don't you think again how come there are always so many trolls trying to destroy k-chat but not other chats? maybe you koreans have atitude problems? And I was not attacking your ethnicity but your idoiticy. And it's perfect normal to compare TWO Koreas' sitution with TW/CN sisutuion because many koreans seem to confuse about the situations.

i forgot where it is, but there's a western poll done saying Chinese are among the most happy with their gov.

i will ask about issues:

1. tiananmen square
2. execution of flun gong members

can you tell me what you know about these 2 issues so i can compare what mainland fobs know about it?

because i think i will find you both know around the same info...

i thought maybe business differences would be brought up. limitations of some sort. but i remember jet li saying he can start his own company in china and do business just like the US. its a mis understanding that people think its like no freedom.

so far, i see the difference is the ability to riot as violently as you want, and possible restriction on information about stupid things like falun gong while important issues do get reported. this level of difference is not something i see as one sided good and bad. an american democracy is the perfect example of why people are not ready for full freedom. much higher crime rate, much more pollution, violent riots, violent streets, BUSH????

and all that doesnt matter because "at least they are allowed to". its like saying this family is better than another because they let their kid do w/e he wants. and they still cling to it after he runs around with knives, sets his parents bedroom on fire and shiat.

I'll give it to you loud and clear once and once only because its against forum rules to go OFF-TOPIC.

I'm talking about Taiwan right now, NOT KOREA. This thread's topic is about TAIWAN, NOT KOREA. If you wanna debate about Korea's division, I welcome you to create a new thread, so that I can destroy your idiotic logic there. But while we are in a thread about TAIWAN, I encourage you to respond to my comments by STAYING ON-TOPIC, instead of using logical fallacy arguments that go OFF-TOPIC just because I am a Korean poster.

I am done going off-topic and responding to your idiocy. If you keep provoking me, I'm sure a mod will catch your CLEAR breach of forum rules.

i just know briefly about tiananmen square events. from my understand, it was a protest against the bejing government set by the students. (what they protest about, i'm not clear) but i know that ccp solidiers went in and killed a lot of the students.

as for falun gong, my understand is that they worship some weird thing that the government ban. what they worship, i don't know.

btw, all of this is what i used to know. now i have a better understand. imagine if i live in China, i wouldn't find out at all.

This is the exactly kind of mob mentality that causes the disgusting display of violence the other day. That only gives bad names to your pro-TI clause. Learn the rule of laws before spewing craps about democracy or freedom of expression. Freedom of expression doesn't give you rights to go violent. If you want to go riots against a government with mandates of 60% of votes, you should chose the path of revolution. But also be prepared that you have to lose your life for your clause. Very simple.




Don't play your typical dirty DPP tatics over here. There are freedom of press today in Taiwan. We see clearly who was at fault the other day. And you are trying to justify the violence because you think your clause is holier than others. But sorry..... the polls don't stand by your side. Those perpetrators should be arrested and be prosecuted to the fullest extend.


There are laws regulate how public protests should be held in Taiwan. There were few problems in the past until the other day. If police don't arrest these mobs, there is no law in Taiwan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtQCq8lBYw

No no no...to a korean nationalist hyprocrits such as you, it's really easy for me to silent your idoitocy by bringing up situation of TWO KOREAS. Provoking you? Korean nationalists are easily provoked. Even a bad joke can provoke K-nationalists. But do people give a $hit about that?

btw badparticle here is my question back to you.

if you are taiwanese, are you living in taiwan now or in oversea. and if you live in oversea, and support immediate independent (which mean going to war with China), are you going to go back to Taiwan to join the military to defend or are you going to sit comfortably in your oversea home and talk big here.

you do realize that if a war breaks out, the people who suffer the most are the one living on the island right? so torn down your taiwan independent patriotic, it doesn't make you more or less taiwanese if you keep your opinion as being de facto.

What you identify with is purely a personal matter, and since that's the case, you will not loose your "Chinesenes" simply because any Taiwanese man does not consider himself Chinese. That's my point. And there is no indication that those who have been working hard at restoring the persecuted languages do so at the expense of mandarin. Promoting one language does not kill another. For your information, Taigu, Haffa, Mandarin and all aboriginal languages have equal legal status. They're all national languages in Taiwan.

There is no justification for associating "Chineseness" exclusively with Mandarin, especially in north america. By the same token it is not reasonable to challenge me not to speak Mandarin if people like I don't consider ourselves Chinese. It not really up to you, is it.

It is strange that, whenever I drop a few lines in Korean Chat, the Chinese there are quick to point out that I am pro-Taiwanese independent, which has nothing to do with my comments and the topics.

Anyways I think it's benefitial for Koreans to try to understand historical and contemporary Taiwan issues. As Korea's national status improves in different aspects, it might want to assume a more active role in the region. To a certain degree, Taiwan's awakward and strategic location brings us misfortune..something perhaps the Korean people understand. I don't need to elaorate.

I think an active role Korea can play is to teach you pro-TIers how to turn a leagl and peaceful protest into a hardcore riot. your kind still has a lot to learn from Korea in that aspect. They are THE master of violent protest and are very proud of it. They made a name for themseves in that regard.


Holo Lang e Min Jin Don Ki Shi Shi Hoaa...

RedFox did you see 中華統一促進黨?

http://forum.yidaba.com/attachments/200811...o07VZwLOdSD.jpg

Please read this
http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...p;variant=zh-tw

And You know that this "party" is a actally the political faction of the criminial organization of 竹聯幫. 張安樂(Chang an le) is wanted by the Taiwanese police authority.
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BC%B5%E5%AE%89%E6%A8%82

http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...p;variant=zh-tw

Chinese criminals disguising as a political party.

中華統一促進黨 is actually 竹聯幫which is translated to "united bamboo Gang"
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Bamboo_Gang

Whether it's CCP or KMT, a typical Chinese fascist state employs criminals to do dirty jobs.

The former head and founder of the United Bammo Gang 陳啟禮 was a murderer and drug lord. He died in Cambodia last year. He was in exile living in Cambodia for more than a decade, growing poppies. He personally commited murder in the U.S. in the 1970s, carrying out the order issued by Chiang Ching-kuo(蔣經國) the son of Chiang kiak shek. At that time Chiang Ching Kuo was the president of the fasciet state ROC. The victim of the murder was not DDP. He was just a waishenren dissident who wrote a book about Chiang Ching-kuo.


Here's some news article 2000 about the status of current boss 張安樂( Chang An le)of this cirminal organization. (Washington Post's archive. For anybody who's interested in the full article, go to your local library)

FREE Article Preview
Buy Complete Document Buy Page Print
The China Connection; Once Again, Crime and Politics Intersect
[FINAL Edition]
The Washington Post - Washington, D.C.
Author: John Pomfret
Date: Dec 31, 2000
Start Page: A.01
Section: A SECTION
Text Word Count: 1412

[Chang] said in an interview that reading and writing are his main activities here in Shenzhen. But the Chinese police said he has continued to run extortion rackets. Last year, they said, they stymied Chang's attempt to monopolize the sale of rice to hundreds of factories run by Taiwanese businesses in southern China--an attempt Chang acknowledged but that he depicted as just a business deal gone bad.

In 1986, Chang had his 15 minutes of fame in the United States, where he was known as "White Wolf." He was one of nine men convicted on drug and racketeering charges for their part in a Taiwan-based international crime ring, the Bamboo Union gang, which according to U.S. and Taiwanese court records also carried out a politically motivated killing in Daly City, Calif., in 1984. The victim, Henry Liu, a crusading Taiwanese American journalist, had written an unflattering biography of Chiang Ching-kuo, Taiwan's president at the time. Court cases in the United States and Taiwan showed that officials in Taiwan's military intelligence service ordered his killing.

"We welcome Chang An-lo to return to Taiwan and face the law," said Chang Su-lin, a section chief of Taiwan's Criminal Investigation Division.

Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner. Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without permission.

^I doubt the old granny carrying a flag in the pic is a criminal. You can tell the actions and behavior of people whether they are thugs and criminals. The DPPs look way, way more like gangsters.

badparticle is just trying to white wash what violent TI mobs did two days ago by averting attention. The real mobs have always been dark green TIers such as badparticle. He can justifies violence for everything his kind has done even though the majority of Taiwanese don't agree with his clause. These TI mobs still don't understand why they lost three major election in a row. The latest violence only shows that the DPP and TIers are a corruptted and violent bunch. See how a few hundred TI mobs hurted 149 people including police, reporters, and bystanders in public. Not to mention they even used gas bombs to attack police. That kind of violence has not happened in Taiwan for probably more than 15 years. I believe last time this kind of violence happened in Tawian when I was still in the elementary school. The DPP and TIers just never grow up and always opt for violent means to achieve thier goals. But nowadays political environment is very different from 15-20 years ago. Taiwanese people just don't buy this violent crap no more. The public polls show.....


See how Taiwan Independece mobs turn for violence. these bloody scenes were done by kind of people badparticle support. It's so ironic these type of people self-claim to be defenders of Taiwanese democracy, liberty, and freedom of expression.

Police and bystanders got injured by these Taiwan Independence mobs.




One of their own dudes got stripped naked in bright day light and repeatly attacked just because he said something other TIers did not agree with.

Wow, a bunch of violent thugs.

The KMT won 60% of votes in presidential election, won most of county elections in land slide, and won a super majority with three quaters of Parliamentary seats. The funny thing is that after losing practially all major elections in Taiwan, the TIers and the DPP tell Taiwanese people that Parliamentary Path is no longer effective and is hampering democracy. They are going to return to what they are good at - fighting on the street.

Twenty some years ago they fought on the street with a goal to replace the authoritarian regime with a democracy. Once they got the power, they totally screwed up Taiwanese economy and engaged in wide spread all-level corruption. Then democracy kicked them out of the office. Now they tell us that democracy is no longer effective and violence is a ok. Now you understand what kind of thugs we are dealing with in Taiwan.

Taiwanese democracy is still immature and young. Although far more democratic than the mainland, the protests that occurred last week only diminishes the chances of a democratic China. Taiwan should set an example to the CCP, showing how wonderful a society is with democracy and the freedom of voice. However, the mainlanders who watched this would only fear a democratic China, if that's what democracy is all about.

And this notion of... letting the 23 million decide on Taiwan's sovereignty - it's pathetic. Both the PRC and ROC recognize their territories as the mainland plus Taiwan. If we are to speak of letting the people decide on whether Taiwan should reunify or separate, why should we not include the 1.3 billion people living on the mainland as well?

And also about these reunification supporters.. did this mini-rally occur in Taiwan? And I'm guessing they're mainland migrants?

hey EazyMoney, even gang members have mothers and wives. Even gang members are allowed to join a political party and vote in elections until the court find them guilty of certain crimes and say they can't do so.

Any member of a criminal organization behaves just like a normal human being 99% of the time. Eat, drink, shop, watch tv. So please don't just look at on one particular granny in one particular picture. I have posted a lot of information in my last post. If your command of the written Chinese language is good, then read it.

Even if I find a picture of a granny in a DPP rally, I don't expect you do stop calling DPP gangster. And you wouldn't, right?
You know what, I'll post another picture of 中華統一促進黨。

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_v9IlXM5hwGo/SQ8V.../terrible-1.jpg