it's a complete stupid and humiliating display of ignorance!

forgive him for he knows not what he's doing...he's always been trying to become a flip eversince.

Philippines languages as dialects? Yes dialects are languages but not all languages can be dialects. Research what the two mean and you'll understand why some people would refer to Philippines languages as dialects.

for felltohellll

yeah, it's alway been of ignorance. where did you research, wiki?

wtf
you can never call some languages dialects...
the reason why fu-kers and nuts call the philippine languages dialects is that their sell out brains know nothing better...
they're slaves to Spanish and English (probably the only two that this moron consider languages)..
i don't care how our languages turned out to be dialects in the minds of foreigners and stupid natives.. what's important is we correct the errors


another monkey of colonial mentality....

man, you're feisty! i think i'm falling in love again....

LOL...you found me out and i went through bunch of different sites like :http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/linguistics/dialects.jsp and http://www.geocities.com/csundita/filipini...planguages.html

Okay, misinformed and another generalizing filipinos, go here: http://www.geocities.com/csundita/filipini...planguages.html

omg your ignorance is ast5onishing!!
btw no person in his right mind goes to wiki for info such as this..

Okay buddy, i only went to wiki to look up the definitions of language and dialect since they are more elaborate and broad, haven't you been paying attention to what i've said in earlier posts? Did you even bother going to the site i gave you?It's a full on explanation why certain modes of communication in regions in the Philippines are considered dialects and why some are not. Please think first before you judge a person. You don't even know how I think.

Why do you refute wikipedia anyways? Are you generalizing again that all the stuff in wiki is wrong?

only because a sensible person knows what kinds of materials to use as references

I used to rely on wiki for infos but to my surprise it can be edited by anyone who visit it! So it's no longer accurate for me.

I'd agree that not all Philippine languages are dialects. Due to the changing society many dialects has been forgotten .

Didn't you read what I said...i looked up the definition...and as a matter of fact it's legit. I looked up other websites as a proper reference. I didn't claim that I based my response solely on Wikipedia. You're one of these people here in this forum who uses insult and gives response without backup information or proof...please be an intelligent poster. Also, please be on topic...

Yes, it can be edited but information in wiki is highly supervised. It's not always accurate especially statistics but to ensure accuracy wiki has this thing called "source" where you can validate where the information came from.

Also, are you agreeing to me or not? I'm confused...

Here's another tidbit: http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Tagalog/languag...s_in_the_ph.htm

As you can see tagalog, bisaya, and other major languages has their own dialects.

felltohell may have created this topic based on a previous one, mainly:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=182119. I think he was irritated from salamat's use of the term dialect in asking the question.

i don't need to research what the two mean because i know the difference. and i'm not going to tolerate people ignorantly calling languages dialects. i think i have made that clear enough for you. i'm surprised the insults got nto you. that was an arrow shot at no one and you got hit? perfect!)
a language is a collective utterance of a partcular group of people occupying a particular geography and sharing almost the same social and cultural experiences... a dialect on the other hand, is a variety of a bigger lingua franca. if you have had decent teachers in elementary, you would know that a dialect is considered substandard and inferior. it was used in the past to refer to the language of the slaves..

now if for example you have Metro Manila Tagalog as the lingua fraNCA, then the utterance of the people of batangas or cavite is what you call the dialect being vareties of Metro Manila Tagalog.

also, a new account is not necessary

Also, I would understand why people would say dialect instead of language especially when a sentence or phrase is a little bit understandable. Since a phrase or sentence is understandable that means it's a dialect!!! Since most of the words used and its sentence structure is a little bit different it is sort of like a variety of a certain language.

Again refer to this site: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~carrasco/bme637/cl.../lesson3-2.html

and this site:http://www.geocities.com/csundita/filipiniana/rplanguages.html

why do you let a foreigner tell you what a language is and what its difference is to a dialecT?
have you ever looked at language and dialect from the perspective of real filipino writers and linguists?
wtf britaNNica, geocites, bull$hit
crap!!

do you still know what books are and how more valuable they are than those free essays you get from the internet written by foreigners who get their ideas from other foreign writers and who have been to the country no longer than six months or so?

Language study is part of Anthropology and Anthropology is part of Science. Hmmmm...who should I trust....foreigners who does research around the world, widely respected of their work, and based their studies from hundreds of articles and Anthropological research from the past in ways that could prove a hypothesis in order to contribute to further understanding in the scientific community. Or a biased opinion by someone...hmmm tough question...This definition has been accepted in the scientific community, although it is not an absolute rule and can still be further improved.Tell me who are these people who truly knows the difference between language and dialect? Are these Filipino writers and linguist truly opposed to the accepted definition and what are their works? And if they are, does their opinion really change the very meaning of language and dialect?

It's like how Filipinos claim many inventions...
Quite the foreigner hater you are, eh?

And oh...we are really going off topic here....

the heck i care...

well basically i would rather believe in a filipino writer who has read the works of various foreign writers and have succeeded in opposing/agreeing on what they have read and applying or refuting them with their own researches in the country. therefore, making the idea closer to the experience of the filipinos and changing what has been distorted.

well for starters i can give you leonco deriada, there's merlie alunan, and niel garcia...
i myself have read various essays and studies about the filipinos of foreigners but i don't stop there...
it's always different and better to hear and learn from what the representatives of the subject have to say

and another account is really not necessary

What are these essays about? Can you give me some link, please and thank you...

Also, I don't always trust people with anything that they say about themselves, they tend to be prejudiced. An external thought with proof and research is always the right one to go...

oh am sorry i have their essays in books and journals
are you in college?

research is still subjective

bff youre a hot head these days.

Yeah, I'm in University and I would love to read those...too bad their in books...

How would research be subjective? Well, maybe the people sought by researchers are subjective but a hypothesis can't be accepted in the science community until the scientist shows that the research done is truthful and shows consistency.

truthful.... thruth
that's one strong word there...
do you know what it means?

She's just stressed.


Shouldn't mess up with an English major. Where educating someone is just a hobby..

Yes, what are you implying?

Start a poll. Language or dialect

They're more like regional languages than "dialects".

too bad Filipinos keep saying they are.

Language varieties are often called dialects rather than languages

* solely because they are not (or not recognized as) literary languages,
* because the speakers of the given language do not have a state of their own,
* or because their language lacks prestige.
Anthropological linguists define dialect as the specific form of a language used by a community. In other words, the difference between language and dialect is the difference between the abstract or general and the concrete and particular. From this perspective, no one speaks a "language," everyone speaks a dialect of a language. Those who identify a particular dialect as the "standard" or "proper" version of a language are in fact using these terms to express a social distinction. In groups where prestige standards play less important roles, "dialect" may simply be used to refer to subtle regional variations in linguistic practices that are considered mutually intelligible, playing an important role to place strangers, carrying the message of where from a stranger originates (which quarter or district in a town, which village in a rural setting, or which province of a country); thus there are many apparent "dialects" of Navajo and Apache, for example, geographically widespread North American indigenous languages, by which the linguist simply means that there are many subtle variations among speakers who largely understand each other and recognize that they are each speaking "the same way" in a general sense.

Modern day linguistics knows that the status of language is not solely determined by linguistic criteria, but it is also the result of a historical and political development. Romansh came to be a written language, and therefore it is recognized as a language, even though it is very close to the Lombardic alpine dialects. An opposite example is the case of the Chinese language whose variations are often considered dialects and not languages despite their mutual unintelligibility because they share a common literary standard and common body of literature.

One analytical paradigm developed by professional linguists is known as the Ausbausprache - Abstandsprache - Dachsprache framework. This actually is a much better distinction for languages

Yeah, there's a little confusion with Filipino dialects and languages. Some people refer to "Bisayan" as if it's just one language. but really it's a group of languages: Cebuano, Hiligaynon, Waray-Waray, and a few others. These languages are not mutually intelligible (they can't understand each other). An example of a dialect in the Visayas is Boholano. It's a dialect of Cebuano. They are mutually intelligible.

In the same way, Bicol is usually considered to be one language with many dialects. But most of the major "dialects" are actually languages of their own, and they are further split up into dialects.

well look at that...u learn something everyday...i always thought it was dialects...
no wonder visayan sounds so different from tagalog

there we go again, you've just been told about "visayan" language and you're still lumping it together. have you heard about a luzonian language or a mindanaon langauge?

wtf bro you don't need a poll for something that's already been defined and established as facts


it is even wong to label them as regional languages.. they're languages plain and simple..

vernacular is more better.

vernacular and dialect had the same history..
vernacular is even worse

what's with all the hate?

Yeah why do people also call it regional languages??? There's people who speak Cebuano from Cebu and Davao. Those two are different regions.

It could take precedence from dialect since every human being speaks vernacular first before an accepted/proper language is picked up. Vernacular really just means local speech...that's why Filipinos in the Philippines uses the term vernacular more often than dialect to describe one's communicative approach especially in situations where English is a must. In schools, particularly in classrooms, teachers often tells students to, "not speak in vernacular, instead practice English". I hope this will not become a debate again about why vernacular is wrong and such...it's going to be off topic again.

It would be pretty ignorant to call the language Yanks speak as American no? I would specify that certain languages belong to a region where they originally developed and eventually became the language associated with the area. In many cases due to immigration or colonization languages are transplanted nationally or internationally.

lol at this thread

Hehe, Filipinos aren't the only ones that do this. My Chinese teacher refers to the Chinese languages as dialects, many Cambodians will refer to other tribal languages as dialects, an Indonesian friend of mine refers to their languages as dialects as well. You see in all these countries there is more than one subgroup you could say, and maybe they are called dialects instead of languages to promote unity, instead of differentiating them.