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I am trying to find out more information about Cham matrilineal practices, about the differences between religions in Cham society, about death rituals, about the language & about impact of colonization/war in Viet Nam.
Besides property being passed through women, & men living with their bride's parents after marriage, how are the matrilineal/matrilocal practices upheld? Do women, for example, ask men to marry? How does a dowry work? How did the Cham hang onto their matrilineal system even after becoming an Indianized kingdom? Also, I read somewhere that Sati (voluntary widow-burning) is still occasionally practiced by the Cham, but that seems contradictory to a matrilineal & matrilocal belief system.
The Cambodian Cham (& Western Vietnamese Cham) are supposed to be less matrilineal than the Eastern Cham of the Central Vietnamese coast. Why is that & how/when did that evolve? They also have different commercial practices. How else are they different?
Does anyone know a lot about the different subsects of Cham religion, including the Cham Bani & non-Muslim Cham? Are there any myths or legends to explain how these splits occurred? How does animism affect things?
There is a Cham custom to rebury the dead. I have also heard of burning the corpse. Does anyone know more about these ceremonies?
I have read a proposal to encode the Cham language, but I have never seen any language glossaries (using the Sanscrit-influenced Ankar Thrak language). Does anyone know of any Cham dictionaries or online glossaries?
How were the Cham of Viet Nam impacted by French colonization & by the American War? I've heard that the Cham were feared/respected as fighters & medicine men during the war, but that was hearsay. I know that many of the towers at My Son were destroyed by B52 bombers, but I don't know how the people were specifically impacted any differently than others in Viet Nam.
Thanks!
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Full Version: Cham discussion
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| QUOTE |
| Today Chams still SPEAK an Austronesian language, they used to WRITE using Cham script ( http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cham.htm ) which is derived from Indian script, and they READ the Quran as they are muslims today. |
Thanks for your post. The language glossaries were helpful, as were the comparisons to other Austronesian/Malay cultures & horticulture societies.
I am wondering if anyone knows more about the religious divides in Cham society. According to Cham I know, these religious divides are are distinct.
Here's a post I found on a Cham Youth website that references three distinct religions within the Cham:
| QUOTE |
| I found two websites about 'The Influence of Cham Ba La Mon' and 'The Chams: Survivors of a Lost Civilisation.' 'Survivors of a Lost Civilisation' talks alittle about how the New religion (Islam) lives peacefully with the original religion (Cham Ba La Mon) and the Combo religion (Cham Bani). In reality, i think it's completely the opposite. From experience, I realized that the three religions have a difficult time getting along with each others. The Chams: Survivors of a Lost Civilisation http://www.cpamedia.com/history/cham_survivors/ Influence of Indian Religion on Ninh Thuan Cham Ba La Mon http://www.ninhthuanpt.com.vn/English/Ninh...a/Lichsu_02.htm source: http://www.chamyouth.com/phpBB2/viewtopic....ebffa91e5c630eb |
Here's a website referring to two distinct religious communities, with intermarriage between them as taboo:
| QUOTE |
| Today, about 77,000 Chams still live in Vietnam, mainly in coastal and Mekong Delta provinces. They have two distinct religious communities, Hindu and Muslim or Cham Bani, and, while they share a common language and history, intermarriage between the two is taboo. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Cham-people |
I have occasionally found references to Cham independence activities during the American war, mostly centered in Cambodia :
| QUOTE |
| During the war years, the Cham participated in several minority movements, such as The Front for the Liberation of Northern Cambodia. The Front for the Liberation of Champa (these two merged in 1962 to become the United Front for the Struggle of the Cham, and was also known as the Front for the Liberation of the Champa Highlands), the Can Sen So (White Scarves) movement (supported by Cambodia) and its successor, The Struggle Front of the Khmer Krom of Kampuchea Krom, and Bajaraka. Some also joined the local communist movements, more out of a sense of being on the side of right and justice than for any attraction to communist doctrine. http://www.angelfire.com/ny/dawahpage/cham.html |
In addition to information on the Cambodian Cham, I have also found references to how the Cham suffered in Viet Nam during the last century:
| QUOTE |
The Cham have been devastated by the events of the twentieth century. In Vietnam, they suffered along with everybody else as Vietnam fought for 50 years to free itself from French colonialism and American intervention in its civil war. Throughout this period, they were also targets of intense assimilation drives by the American-backed rulers in Saigon. Vietnamese were moved into their lands, their language was prohibited, their culture ridiculed, and they were regarded as savages to be treated a Saigon saw fit. Hanoi, on the other hand, officially supported policies of respect for the minorities and encouraged its cadres to win them over by persuasion and example instead of force. http://www.angelfire.com/ny/dawahpage/cham.html |
The Vietnamese government has made efforts to revive & preserve Cham society today, including Ha Noi's recent Cham Culture Days, but tourism also seems to be a big motivation. My Son is a World Heritage site, and Da Nang's Cham museum welcomes tens of thousands of visitors a year.
Discrimination against the Cham can continue sometimes even after immigration to other countries.
| QUOTE |
| Cham: With a pre-war population of about 30,000 centered in South Central Vietnam, the Cham had Hindu and Islamic influences. In Vietnam they were associated with Malay people and looked down upon. This has continued in the US. http://ethnomed.org/ethnomed/cultures/viet...tnamese_cp.html |
While I was in Viet Nam, a man told me that some Vietnamese people consider French colonization & the American war to be a sort of extended karma return resulting from how the Cham have been treated/conquered by the Vietnamese. This perception may not extend to everyone, of course. Does anyone know if discrimination against Cham people is actually lessening in Vietnamese society itself, or is there still a lot of cultural, economic & social segregation?
After further research, I have found abstracts from a conference on the Cham which occurred earlier this year in Singapore.
I learned more about the Cham of Viet Nam.
I learned more about the Cham of Viet Nam.
| QUOTE |
| A Study On The Almanac Of The Cham In South-Central Part Of Vietnam Yoshimoto Yasuko / Kobe University The purpose of this study is to investigate the present aspect of the Cham society in the South-central part of Vietnam. Today, there is approximately 87.000 Cham are living in this part. In conventional studies, Cham in this area has been explained that they ware divided into two groups based on their religion. One, called Balamon, are worshipers of indigenized Hinduism, the other, called Bani, are worshipers of indigenized Islam. In recent years, several articles have insisted that Bani and Baramon were not two different religious groups but two different categories which belong together under the same religious system. Those insistences have been explained by the indigenous notion of Awar Ahier, what we called symbolic dualism. According to some articles, the concept of Awar Ahier is explained in many context of Cham society from gods to human body. |
I think the following paper will illuminate more about how Cham get along within Vietnamese society.
| QUOTE |
| Ethnicity Of The Cham People In Vietnam Rie Nakamura / The Toyota Foundation This is a paper to demonstrate the diversity of the ethnic Cham communities in Vietnam, which is based on the field research conducted among the Cham communities in Vietnam from 1994 to 1996. Cham people are found throughout Southeast Asian countries such as Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia. The Muslim people in Hai Nam Island of China are claimed to be the descendants of Champa people. There are also Cham communities found in France, Canada, Australia, and the United States. There are about 100,000 Cham people living in Vietnam. The Cham people are one of 54 state recognized ethnic groups in Vietnam. The Vietnamese state makes conscious effort to represent equally all the ethnic minority peoples living inside of their national borders. In Vietnam, an ethnic group tends to be depicted as a homogenous group, they have one language, one history, one religion, one tradition, and son on. Their catalogue like depictions are however not able to portrait the complexity of their community. The Cham people whom I encountered in Vietnam were diverse in their language, religion, custom, and the concept of history. There are various kinds of Cham who construct their ethnic identity differently based on the social context and social interactions. By the localities and their historical background, the Cham people living in Vietnam are divided into two groups; the Cham living in the south central coast area and the Cham living in the Mekong Delta. In this paper, by comparing two Cham communities in Ninh Thuan province (the south central coast area) and An Giang Province (The Mekong Delta) I would like to talk about how their ethnic identities varies between the two groups of Cham, and also how they maintain their ethnic identity as one unified ethnic group. In doing so the concept of “Champa” amongst the Cham will be examined. |
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@jthi
Just curious, are you Cham?
Just curious, are you Cham?
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i am one quarter cham, specifically. my mom is half-cham, my grandmother is full cham, from phan rang-thap cham in south central viet nam, near the coast. my mother emigrated to the united states during the fall of saigon, & i was born the following year. i have been back to her home village, & i have met my extended cham family. i have learned a lot from her about cham society, but since she also grew up an 'army brat,' she didn't spend her entire childhood in the village, since she identified also with catholic & buddhist friends while growing up, there is a lot about cham culture that she doesn't have explanations for. also, my mother did not come from a muslim cham family. i am still trying to understand the religious differences partly because my family's belief system is a small percentage within an already small population, culturally speaking, but which shares a lot of indigenous beliefs with the muslim cham and the cambodian cham. the matrilineal system within the cham, however, is centered mostly in south central viet nam (i think), but it shares characteristics with other austronesian cultures -- the beforementioned horticulture societies had that in commom. makes sense, fertility & growth. also the second burial is practiced by many other malay/austroneseans.
i have also visited my son holy grounds, & the cham museum in da nang. i have found that it is far easier to find information on cham's celebrated & masterful art & architecture, than its people. gradually i am learning more about the social, cultural & religious aspects of cham society. even in the last three years, so much more is available online even, including recordings of cham songs.
interesting information you sent! i will also need to research more ... i don't know very much about the hainan island origin. i did find this information on cham's influence on mon-khmer :
i have also visited my son holy grounds, & the cham museum in da nang. i have found that it is far easier to find information on cham's celebrated & masterful art & architecture, than its people. gradually i am learning more about the social, cultural & religious aspects of cham society. even in the last three years, so much more is available online even, including recordings of cham songs.
interesting information you sent! i will also need to research more ... i don't know very much about the hainan island origin. i did find this information on cham's influence on mon-khmer :
| QUOTE |
| The Westward Expansion of Chamic Influence in Indo-China: A view from Historical Linguistics Gerard Diffloth EFEO, Cambodia ________________________________________________________________________ With one notable exception, Thurgood 1999, the contribution of Historical Linguisticcs to the history of the Cham world has been, so far, rather small. And yet, its potential is great since language, unlike inscriptions and political documents, covers the entire spectrum of human activity, knowledge and feelings. We already know that Old Cham, a historical cousin of Malay, established itself on the coast and then expanded its influence westward into the mountainous hinterland. As part of that process, a number of people who previously spoke Mon-Khmer languages, mostly of the Bahnaric branch, switched language and now speak the languages we call Jarai, Rhade, Roglai, Hroi etc..These languages, together with Cham itself, constitute the Chamic languages. In this lecture, I will look at this process from the outside, from the point of view of those who did not switch and continue speaking Mon-Khmer languages, but were nevertheles influenced, in various degrees, by the Chamic advance westward. We can specify which languages were influenced, which ones remained untouched, and draw the approximate limits on the linguistic map. The results suggest two distinct historical westward movements of Chamic speakers, one not very ancient, powerful, and still active, among the Bahnaric languages of the Central Highlands, and another one, on a smaller scale, more ancient, and no longer active, among the Katuic languages in the hinterands of the city of Hue. http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/abstracts/abs_champa.pdf |
oh, it is from family experience that i know intermarriage between cham religious differences is taboo. sometimes it happens anyway, just like taboos in every culture. besides being taboo, it is also difficult, on a daily basis. one example... different pots need to be used to cook food, because they each couldn't eat certain things that the other could eat, according to their belief systems. my grandmother & her husband could not be buried together even, once they died.
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most of what i learned from my mother growing up had less to do with cham belief systems & more to do with her specific experiences during the war & her resulting nightmares and losses. but much of what i do remember referenced that my mother felt apart from a lot of cham philosophies while growing up, & also she found herself discriminated against as a half-cham. she didn't embody the belief systems later, partly because she moved around a lot & had a lot of exposure to other aspects of vietnamese society, and partly because she sometimes found cham to be too superstitious. she didn't embody any cham beliefs by the time i was born, but she could talk about them when telling stories, could make references to the mother god (uroja?), the father god (embodied in the linga?), the gods of each direction. she did not specifically mention shiva, whom the hindu cham worship (i think), and she says that we were not muslim, but that we intermarried with muslim cham. what she referred to was more of an indigenous system, and definitely matrilineal. property passes from mother to daughter, for example.
here are some cham songs... just scroll down to the bottom & click on the links under children's songs. you will reach a lyrics page. click on the hypertext on that page. an automatic download of the song should begin, & you can hear the song & read the lyrics.
Cham songs
Cham songs
there's a cham youth website that has a lot of cultural & historical information about the cham. included is an extensive cham song collection
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Just so you know there are about 700,000 Chams living in Cambodia. The ones that I have met were all muslims. Never met a Cham that wasn't muslim. Anyway, I think Chams in Cambodia have more freedom than those in VN. Recently, the government of Cambodia allowed Chams to have their own radio broadcasting in their language. From my own experience, Chams tended to stick to themselves. They lived in separate communities from the rest of Khmers and there were not a lot of intermarriages betweens between the two groups.
Naval engagements with the Vietnamese.
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| 431 CE: The Cham kingdom of Lin-yi assembled over a hundred ships to pillage the north Vietnamese coast. |
| QUOTE |
| 979 CE: A Cham naval expedition attacked the Vietnamese capital Hoa Lu in the Red River delta, but the fleet was destroyed in a gale, and only the king's ship survived. The Vietnamese retaliated in 982, destroying the Cham capital Indrapura; the Cham capital was eventually moved south to Vijaya (Binh Dinh). |
http://www.maritimeasia.ws/topic/chronology.html
After their kingdom was destroyed by the Vietnamese in 1471 many Cham nobles sought refuge in Malacca and became muslims .
| QUOTE (jthi @ Sep 27 2004, 02:06 AM) |
| here are some cham songs... just scroll down to the bottom & click on the links under children's songs. you will reach a lyrics page. click on the hypertext on that page. an automatic download of the song should begin, & you can hear the song & read the lyrics. Cham songs |
Cham sounds Vietnamese
I CAN NOT HEAR THE SONGS!!!!! 
I MEAN I DOWNLOADED IT, BUT THE VOLUME IS SOOOOOOOO LOW, ITS LIKE U CAN BARELY HEAR IT, AND I TRIED TO TURN UP THE VOLUME ON MY WINAMP BUT IT DOESNT PLAY!!
WHAT DO I DO SO I CAN HEAR IT? WMV IS SO TRICKY 
I MEAN I DOWNLOADED IT, BUT THE VOLUME IS SOOOOOOOO LOW, ITS LIKE U CAN BARELY HEAR IT, AND I TRIED TO TURN UP THE VOLUME ON MY WINAMP BUT IT DOESNT PLAY!!
WHAT DO I DO SO I CAN HEAR IT?
WMV IS SO TRICKY
a better site for Cham songs:
Cham Songs
Cham Songs
but they are in some RAM or RM Format, and i dont think i can play them!
| QUOTE (holamon @ Sep 27 2004, 10:44 AM) |
| Just so you know there are about 700,000 Chams living in Cambodia. The ones that I have met were all muslims. Never met a Cham that wasn't muslim. Anyway, I think Chams in Cambodia have more freedom than those in VN. Recently, the government of Cambodia allowed Chams to have their own radio broadcasting in their language. From my own experience, Chams tended to stick to themselves. They lived in separate communities from the rest of Khmers and there were not a lot of intermarrage betweens between the two groups. |
Most of them are in Kampong Cham(an entire province/village dedicated to the Chams after the Fall of there Kingdom). They have there own school system, and are allowed to worship freely. When I was visiting KampongCham, the mosque would start worship and have there microphones full blast at 5am. Cham people wake up way too early. BEcuase of there dedication to there religion and there work as expert fisherman.
| QUOTE (Point_Dexter @ Sep 27 2004, 05:21 PM) |
| Most of them are in Kampong Cham(an entire province/village dedicated to the Chams after the Fall of there Kingdom). They have there own school system, and are allowed to worship freely. When I was visiting KampongCham, the mosque would start worship and have there microphones full blast at 5am. Cham people wake up way too early. BEcuase of there dedication to there religion and there work as expert fisherman. |
That's where I was from. Actually, Kampong Cham the city itself doesn't have that many Chams. Most Chams live in Kampong Threar and Chkai Goung. But anyway, these two towns are part of Kampong Cham province.
^Yes, that would be down stream near the river. They have many isolated Cham villages along the river banks.
do these chams still have the knowledge to build their hindu temples?
wow, thanks for telling me more about cambodian cham. i had heard about the radio broadcasts & i knew that the cham population in cambodia was much stronger, but i hadn't heard very much about the cham in cambodia firsthand.
i wonder just how many non-muslim cham are there? seems like not very many.
did you find cham songs which are loud enough?
when you hear cham spoken around you, you definitely notice a difference between it & vietnamese.
oh... here's a bit more on the cham language evolution & gender differences among speakers...
i wonder just how many non-muslim cham are there? seems like not very many.
did you find cham songs which are loud enough?
when you hear cham spoken around you, you definitely notice a difference between it & vietnamese.
oh... here's a bit more on the cham language evolution & gender differences among speakers...
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| Cham is unsual among Austronesian Languages - for its clearly establishes on the Asian mainland. There, nearly two thousand years ago, it was the main language of the Hindu Kingdom of Champa.When this kingdom fell, as a result of a Vietnamese victory in 1471, many of its people migrated mainland: this is the origin of Cambodian speakers of Cham, now the largest group. Cham speakers are traditionally fishermen and traders along the waterways of Cambodia and Vietnam. Cham is one of the languages in which men's and women's speech differs most noticeably.Men, tradtionally literate, use expressions from the oldest Cham literary language; women traditionally not taught to read,speak in modern style. The languages related to Cham are widely scattered. Although Cham was the language of an early Hindu kingdom, the first four groups : Western Cham, Eastern Cham, Huihui and Achehnese are predominantly Muslim. Cham is spoken/used in the following countries: Cambodia, Vietnam. Language Family Family: Malayo-Polynesian (Austronesian) Subgroup: Indonesian |
cham language link
i'm still wondering why in a matrilineal society (as south vietnamese cham's is) the women would not be taught to read, tho, while men are .... the holy priests are all men, too, from what i have gathered.... although there are female goddesses, and the breast is worshipped & celebrated in the culture's early art & architecture.
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| Cham art went through another revival during the Dong Duong period (nineth to tenth centuries) as a new dynasty appeared in northern Champa. This style is very vigorous and "much more concerned with grandeur than with human beauty" (Nguyen). Yet the style was also very original as it welded together both local influences and those of Buddhism. Throughout these styles, however, can still be found evidence of an older belief system still present within the Cham culture. Images of the Mother Goddess Uroja (whose name means "a woman's breast" in the Cham language), as well as sculpture of breasts and nipples, can be found in many temples (Phuong). |
sometimes i find that some websites don't even check out basic facts about the cham before posting information. these people are trying to sell cham language products even....
| QUOTE |
| WESTERN: The language differs somewhat from Eastern Cham of central Viet Nam. Devanagari-based script. Roman script under discussion in USA and elsewhere. Muslim. EASTERN: An official ethnic community in Viet Nam. Remnants of a once powerful kingdom. Austro-Asiatic influences. Literacy rate in first language: 5% to 10%. Literacy rate in second language: 60%. Agriculturalists. Traditional religion, Christian. Bible portions 1973. |
that's funny. against all evidence, somehow they are christian because someone gave them parts of a bible in 1973. i wonder who made this assessment?
not quite getting it
does anyone know the cham living in ::
Australia, France, Indonesia, Libya, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, or Yemen?
link
Australia, France, Indonesia, Libya, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, or Yemen?
link
Wow that is fascinating about Uroja and the breasts! 
i consider myself matrilneal in beliefs as well! my mother has always been the bread winner growing up & when i think of supreme being, i look as though it is a woman!
in my philippine islands, women are highly respected today, 3 times we have had a woman to be elected and serve as president of the Philippines. And also in ancient times women had great powers and were respected, feared, and even men imitated them as bieing like them meant to be closer to the pagen spirits:
i consider myself matrilneal in beliefs as well! my mother has always been the bread winner growing up & when i think of supreme being, i look as though it is a woman!
in my philippine islands, women are highly respected today, 3 times we have had a woman to be elected and serve as president of the Philippines. And also in ancient times women had great powers and were respected, feared, and even men imitated them as bieing like them meant to be closer to the pagen spirits:
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| "The priestesses dress very gaily, with garlands on their heads, and are resplendent with gold...the priestess chants her songs and invokes the (spirit) who...enters her body and hurls her to the ground, foaming at the mouth as one possessed. In this state she declares whether the sick person is to recover or not." -Miguel de Loarca, Bisayas 1582-1583. The early Spanish missionaries must have been astonished at the ecstatic healing rituals of indigenous female shamans. Perhaps in spreading Catholicism, and with it, the most popular female icon of the Philippines--Mary, Mother of Jesus--they hoped to erase such untamed native elements. But undeniably, some of the most interesting female figures stem from pre- Christian times. Creation myths and folktales tell of goddesses who take equal part with the male god in making human beings, immortal maidens who marry celestial bodies, and human intermediaries or shamans who receive divine inspiration and guide their communities. The unique figure of the babaylan (also called shaman, baylan, daetahan, tambalan, and manggagaway), prevalent in pre-Christian Philippine society and throughout Southeast Asia, embodies the balanced coexistence of female and male energies. While the babaylan is feminine, she functions differently than most women do in a patriarchal society. On the physical level, men who become babaylan take on the feminine appearance by dressing in feminine clothing. Sometimes the babaylan is a hermaphrodite, literally possessing both female and male sexual properties, or an impotent man. The shaman of Southeast Asia is often bisexual or impotent because he/she embodies both the feminine (earth) and the masculine (sky) elements. Within some groups in the Philippines, such as the Warays, babaylans are exclusively women. Among the Warays, there are different types of shamans with various healing powers. The daetahan, for example, function closer to the community, offering sacrifices, diagnosing sicknesses, and performing rituals for the deceased. The katooran are higher in rank, and have closer relations with the highest spirit, the diwata. The Waray tambalan and Tagalog manggagaway* function as medicine women, using their special earth-wisdom for herbal healing. In contrast (and as an example of the balance between extremes of male and female, sickness and health), Manggagaway is also the name of a goddess in the Tagalog region responsible for the occurence of disease. http://www.bwf.org/pusod/CallofNature/2001/babaylan.html |
in pre-colonial philippines, when the spaniards began to visit us, they also observed the high literacy of the islanders using our indic derived writing script regardless of gender and age. etc:
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| when Legazpi came to Manila in 1571 he observed that the inhabitants knew how to read and write. This was documented by Pedro Chirino, a Jesuit historian, who wrote in his 1604 Relacion de las Islas filipinas, "All these islanders are much given to reading and writing, and there is hardly a man, much less a woman, who does not read and write." Chirino was not alone in his observation. Many other historians had similar conclusions, including Dr. Antonio Morga, Senior Judge Advocate of the High Court of Justice and commander of the ill-fated galleon-turned-warship San Diego that was sunk by the Dutch Admiral van Noort. He wrote in his 1609 Sucesos de las Islas filipinas, "Almost all the natives, both men and women, write in this language. There are very few who do not write it excellently and correctly." http://www.bibingka.com/dahon/literacy/literacy.htm |
I think in our native Austronesian culture, which we share, women had great rights and power, but when foreigners came and introduced things such as indians introduced hinduism to your people, and spanairds introduced their culture to us, our native culture is altered a little bit, so depending on what foreigner came and how their culture was towards women, the matrilineal aspect can thrive or kinda lessen in degree... Women in the philippines after spanish colonized were treated poorly and given a lower position.
but still women still have high respect in Philippine society as again women are leaders in govnerment and communnity. so despite spanish atempts to oppress women, our native matrilineal customs persevere and survived to this day!
wow!! i have been really interested in the babaylan, and in how colonialism & contact with other cultures shaped the matrilinealism in austronesean societies ... on the latter, i found this, for example ....
| QUOTE |
| Within European, monotheistic societies, the dualism inherent in the male/female dichotomy spills over into an unequal gendered power relationship between men and women that Hélène Cixous illustrates as man over woman.[10] However, in Animist, pre-colonial Southeast Asia, gendered categories were differently constituted within discrete cultural settings, which did not necessarily result in the advantage[11] to the male that Cixous' model demonstrates. Indeed, in pre-contact Animist Philippines, there was a bilateral kinship system, women actively participated in the economic realm and maintained control over their earnings, virginity was not valued, 'adultery' was not noteworthy, both women and men were 'chieftains,' and women predominated in the spiritual domain.[12] http://maharlika.proboards26.com/index.cgi...&num=1091358470 |
also ...
| QUOTE |
| Generally, Southeast Muslim women, in addition to their roles as wives and mothers, also are engaged in earning an income. They seem to have a significant share of economic power and autonomy, particularly Malaysian Peninsular, Javanese, and Filipino women. Typically, women are integral to the peasant economy, entirely responsible for the commercial production of vegetables and for the care of domestic animals. In general they retain legal control over what they produce and earn, and it appears that, besides rules of inheritance, the institutionalization of marital property in this region also encourages women?s control over resources. Yet, women?s active economic roles are also conditioned by the classes to which women belong. In poor families, for example, economic activity gives women positions of considerable importance, and in the wealthier families it gives a material basis for acquiring increased social power. Although not many women ?reach the top? a lot of them are found on the middle levels of various professions (Dube, 1997:46-48). |
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man u know alot about stuf! thats really cool u know about filipino history!
thanks! i'm actually just now learning a lot more. i have seen definite parallels within austronesean socieities & have had to look at the cultures of other malay/austronesean countries in order to learn more about the cham. oh, thanks for telling me more about the second burial occuring similarly to the cham's, as far away as madagascar even.
in many ways, i started this discussion because i needed to continue learning, as i am trying to understand my family history better, and put my grandmother's & mother's experiences into the context of the culture they lived in. there are so many distinctions & divisions within cham society ... not just eastern & western cham (whose language & patrilineal/matrilineal societies differ), but muslim & hindu & indigenous beliefs different/common to both. also.... differences in their countries. the cambodian cham had difficulties during the khmer rouge, but they are more visible, numerous & cohesive now than the vietnamese. the vietnamese cham were forced out of their written language learning during french occupation, decades of warfare didn't exactly help matters either, plus a lot of cultural, social & economic discrimination from the vietnamese (& their relatively small/ostracized population) hadn't helped their visibility & unity in viet nam. yet things seem to be moving in the right direction, compared easpecially to my mom's experiences decades ago. however, the vietnamese cham, in general, are still much more economically destitute than their vietnamese neighbors.
it's great to be learning more about the cham in cambodia! thank you, those who have posted. i would like to hear more if you have stories. i liked hearing that the cham wake up early & are experts catching fish. the cham in vietnam (away from the mekong) do agriculture & weaving mostly. i would love to meet the cham community in cambodia someday. my mom wasn't able to teach me cham so i don't know the language ... i would have to take one of my older sisters (who grew up in my mom's village) with me.
another division i found within the human history of the cham is the division into clans .... it is written into this brief history of the cham, which talks more about cham architecture too. scientists still can't fully explain it. the bricks are adhered together somehow with a plant resin based mortar of unknown recipe. the buildings (those not bombed to bits, that is) stand after centuries still, and outsiders to the cham don't know how. i'm not sure if the cham today know this recipe, or if the original plant is still abundant. they might not be able to build them today -- they no longer have the wealth either.
here's more ....
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A Brief History of The Cham
It can be a daunting task to try to look back into ancient history and speculate on what our ancestors were like, how they lived, what gods or goddesses they worshipped. It can be especially difficult to decipher the culture of a civilization which existed as far back as 192, according to Chinese texts (Coedes 1968), in an environment that is notorious for quickly erasing almost all traces of human presence. We are fortunate, however, because there are enough buildings and sculptures that have been found to give us a glimpse into the religious practices of the Cham. The Cham civilization was divided geographically into four regions, Quang-nam, where Dong-duong is located, is considered the Champa holy land (Coedes 1968). The other regions are Amaravati, and south was Vijaya, present day Bihn-dinh, and Pandurang. The evolution of the culture of Champa can be traced through the art and architecture of the Cham ruins and artifacts which have been recovered and interpreted.
Much of the early history of Cham is centered around internal conflict between two tribes or clans, so little information has been found regarding this era. In the northern part of the kingdom were the Dua (coconut) clan, and to the south were the Cau (areca) clan. To settle these internal conflicts, the two tribes began to practice intermarriage. The Cham belong to the Austro-Asian race and the Malayo-Polynesian language family (Phuong 1987). Their written language is a variation of the ancient Sanskrit language of India. The Cham, with more than 77,000 members, are currently one of Vietnam's minority groups, struggling for equality. They still maintain their language, culture, and religious beliefs, despite their diminishing population.
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Religious temples and statues are one of the most important sources for evaluating the ancient Kingdom of Champa. For example, we know that their most ancient beliefs is that of a "Mother Goddess." In the Chams case, the goddess is called, Uroja (meaning a woman's breast in the Cham language), her images and those of nipples can be found in many temples and on many sculptures (Phuong 1987). The "Earth Mother" image is an ancient one that ties the people to the soil, and is an agriculturally oriented icon in an agriculturally based society. During the late third century and fourth century, we see an appearance of Hinduism, most notably, the Hindu gods Siva, Brahma, and Vishnu. Siva receives a lot of attention in relieves and sculptures up to the 14th century. Gradually, there is also a rise of Mahayana Buddhism, that didn't really come into any popularity until the ninth century, at which time large Buddhist monasteries were built at Dong Duong.
Cham art can be characterized according to several periods of differing styles. Beginning here with the Early Tra Kieu style which dates to the late seventh century. Sculptures are characterized by graceful human poses and decorations reflecting a civilized culture. Animal sculptures are a hallmark of Cham art as is evidenced by the beautiful carvings of elephants, tigers, and other powerful animals (Phuong 1987). The An My style was popular during the early eighth century and is characterized by a heavy Indian influence. The next time period, the eighth and nineth centuries, called the My Son E1 style, was a sort of renaissance age for Cham art. While accepting Indian influence, Cham art managed to maintain its unique character and spirit. And as Phuong notes, from the 8th century forward, Indian art had no influence on Cham art (Phuong 1987).
Cham art can be characterized according to several periods of differing styles. Beginning here with the Early Tra Kieu style which dates to the late seventh century. Sculptures are characterized by graceful human poses and decorations reflecting a civilized culture. Animal sculptures are a hallmark of Cham art as is evidenced by the beautiful carvings of elephants, tigers, and other powerful animals (Phuong 1987). The An My style was popular during the early eighth century and is characterized by a heavy Indian influence. The next time period, the eighth and nineth centuries, called the My Son E1 style, was a sort of renaissance age for Cham art. While accepting Indian influence, Cham art managed to maintain its unique character and spirit. And as Phuong notes, from the 8th century forward, Indian art had no influence on Cham art (Phuong 1987).
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In the late nineth and early tenth centuries, King Indravaraman II had taken power and commissioned a large Buddhist monastery to be built in the Quang Nam--Da Nang area. This era also reflected a unification in the style of Cham art throughout the empire (Phuong 1987). This is called the Dong Duong style, partly due to the magnificent Buddhist statues and sculptures found from this era. The next several centuries show slight changes in style, while maintaining the basic flowing lines of Cham art. Most notably, we see a move to free standing statues which reflect more sophisticated thought processes behind these sculptures.
The lack of any real written record of the Cham culture makes the task of learning about these ancient people very difficult. Much of what is known has been learned through comparisons with similar cultures and interpretations of the religious temples and statues that have survived the centuries. As one of the few remaining ancient cultures in the world, it is important to try to preserve the history of these people, and to continue to search the jungles of Vietnam for further evidence of the Cham.
The lack of any real written record of the Cham culture makes the task of learning about these ancient people very difficult. Much of what is known has been learned through comparisons with similar cultures and interpretations of the religious temples and statues that have survived the centuries. As one of the few remaining ancient cultures in the world, it is important to try to preserve the history of these people, and to continue to search the jungles of Vietnam for further evidence of the Cham.
brief history of the cham
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do you know about the MINANGKABAU Tribe of Indonesia? they are said to be the largest Matrilineal tribe in the world to this day and they are also faithful muslims! i think this is a beautiful example of pre-islamic mixing with islam and has drastically re-define what islam is in the world.
this is so amazing!!
There's another cham mixed in vietnamese forum, but he's too viet-washed, the only thing that is cham about him is his religion, born muslim 
he's Nam Quoc Son Ha 
he's Nam Quoc Son Ha
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do these chams still have the knowledge to build their hindu temples?
such a good question ... i wonder if anyone could answer this .... even if the cham knew how to build them, are those temples only the products of a rich society, where there's enough money?
(in the old days, they were quite wealthy due to trade with china & india -- exporting sandalwood mainly, & they were pirates who sacked passing ships -- so they benefitted from trade in more ways than one.)
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I think in our native Austronesian culture, which we share, women had great rights and power, but when foreigners came and introduced things such as indians introduced hinduism to your people, and spanairds introduced their culture to us, our native culture is altered a little bit, so depending on what foreigner came and how their culture was towards women, the matrilineal aspect can thrive or kinda lessen in degree... Women in the philippines after spanish colonized were treated poorly and given a lower position.
i wonder how much of this change to a more colonized gender idea was forced by laws & policies? how much did the matrilineality slipped through the legal cracks, & survived with the culture?
i wish i could say that i am from a matrilineal culture myself ... the u.s. certainly isn't that, and that is the culture i am from. and although i identify with the cham ethnically, & my matrilineal-minded mother brought me up with certain ideals, i am not cham culturally, at all, and only 1/4 cham ethnically. i am mostly an outsider looking in, but holding the hand of family, and having the understanding that i could have easily lived there my entire life in that village, if circumstances were just a little different back then, when my mom evacuated viet nam.
i have always appreciated gabriela's story ... is she an inspiration still to filipina women?
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Gabriela Silang (March 19, 1731- September 29, 1763) was the first Filipino woman to lead a revolt during the Spanish colonization of the Philippines. An active member of the insurgent force of Diego Silang, her husband, she led the group for four months after his capture before she herself was captured and executed.
Born Maria Josefa Gabriela Cariño on March 19, 1731 in Caniogan, Ilocos Sur, a mestiza, she was adopted by a wealthy businessman who later married her at the tender age of 20, but left after three years. In 1757, she married again, this time to 27-year-old rebel leader Diego Silang. She became one of his closest advisors, a major figure in her husband's collaboration with the British and the brief expulsion of Spanish officials in Vigan, Ilocos Sur.
On May 28, 1763, her husband was assassinated by order of royal and church authorities in Manila. After her husband's death, she fled on horseback to the mountains of Abra to establish her headquarters, reassemble her troops, and rally the Tingguian community to fight. They descended on Vigan on September 10, 1763. But the Spanish garrison was ready, amassing Spanish, Tagalog, and Kapampangan soldiers and Ilocano collaborators to ambush her and rout her forces. Many were killed. She escaped, alongside her uncle Nicolas and seven other men, but later caught on September 29, 1763. They were summarily hanged in Vigan's plaza.
Her ferocity and death became a symbol for Filipino women, their pre-colonial importance in Filipino society and their struggle for liberation during colonization.
gabriela
here's where i read about the caste system in cham society, and about sati being practiced before, i don't know if it is today. it still seems contradictory for a widow to be willingly or forcefully set on fire in a matrilineal society.
history of cham
in that last quote, it also says that bodies are burned, but doesn't mention the second burial. i've hardly read anything about the second burial in cham society, ever, i just know about it through family.
more about sati ...
tradition of sati in india
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Much like the Brahman cultures that flourish in India , the Cham culture utilized a caste system. The strict rigor of this system benefited the privileged Brahmans and Kshatriyas, and served to relegate untouchables to the periphery of organized life. Marriages tended to occur within the same caste with little deviation. Bodies were also cremated in a funeral pyre, called a Ghat, instead of being buried in a family grave. A striking difference from some of the older animist beliefs that already existed in Vietnam. Unlike India , however, the position of women seems to be more central to the government power structure. Chinese historians note that women held considerable power in both matters of family and marriage. [B]At the same time the ritual of Sati was also practiced. The Cham people also adopted the Hindu practice of not eating beef -- a practice still observed in some areas of Vietnam today.
history of cham
in that last quote, it also says that bodies are burned, but doesn't mention the second burial. i've hardly read anything about the second burial in cham society, ever, i just know about it through family.
more about sati ...
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Sati (Su-thi , a.k.a. suttee) is the traditional Hindu practice of a widow immolating herself on her husband's funeral pyre.
"Sati" means a virtuous woman. A woman who dies burning herself on her husbands funeral fire was considered most virtuous, and was believed to directly go to heaven, redeeming all the forefathers rotting in hell, by this "meritorious" act. The woman who committed Sati was worshipped as a Goddess, and temples were built in her memory.
Sati was prevalent among certain sects of the society in ancient India, who either took the vow or deemed it a great honor to die on the funeral pyres of their husbands. Ibn Batuta (1333 A.D.) has observed that Sati was considered praiseworthy by the Hindus, without however being obligatory. The Agni Purana declares that the woman who commits sahagamana goes to heaven. However, Medhatiti pronounced that Sati was like suicide and was against the Shastras, the Hindu code of conduct. It is believed that they were not coerced, although several wives committed Sati. The majority of the widows did not undergo Sati.
"Sati" means a virtuous woman. A woman who dies burning herself on her husbands funeral fire was considered most virtuous, and was believed to directly go to heaven, redeeming all the forefathers rotting in hell, by this "meritorious" act. The woman who committed Sati was worshipped as a Goddess, and temples were built in her memory.
Sati was prevalent among certain sects of the society in ancient India, who either took the vow or deemed it a great honor to die on the funeral pyres of their husbands. Ibn Batuta (1333 A.D.) has observed that Sati was considered praiseworthy by the Hindus, without however being obligatory. The Agni Purana declares that the woman who commits sahagamana goes to heaven. However, Medhatiti pronounced that Sati was like suicide and was against the Shastras, the Hindu code of conduct. It is believed that they were not coerced, although several wives committed Sati. The majority of the widows did not undergo Sati.
tradition of sati in india
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Truly, nationalism makes fools of us all. It's an irrational ideology in the first place, but the sad thing is that it makes perfect sense to the narrow-minded because it affirms all their prejudices and panders to their pride - Yun
this is very true...
I just want to give you another personal experience that I had with this Cham family that I encountered during my stay in a refugee camp in Indonesia. They were from VN, but they also speak Cambodian. I think the head of the family belong to a Cham independent movement organization in VN. Anyway, one thing I know for sure is that Chams speak the same language as Indonesian people b/c I saw him spoke to Indonesian soldiers in Cham and they understood each other. I think the family got accepted by Malaysia as refugee.
Took me a while to read this thread and then saw my name being mentioned. Quoc and I are both cool with each other, him being a proud Vietnamese and me Malaysian.
I've only really sterted to be very very intrigued about the Cham after reading on the Asiafinest (this site can really be informative at times), and was extremely surpised to find a Malay-related culture in the heart of maindland southeast Asia. Always striked me as strange as to why did they have names starting with Kampong in Cambodia when Khmer didn't sound anything remotely Malay. Then to know that many were also fellow Muslims was an epiphany. Since then I've found out that at least one of my Malaysian friends has Cham parents and that they migrated to Malaysia in the 1970s. To say that they have assimilated very well is a misnomer as there was never much difference to begin with. It's more like a belated homecoming to a second homeland rather than a migration to a foreign country. They still have strong links to Cambodia, though.
As for the Minangkabau society, it's probably best to get the input of someone from Sumatra itself, its original source. The Malays in Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia are actually the only practitioners of the matrilineal 'adat perpatih' compared to the rest of the country which pactrises 'adat temenggung' which includes Malacca.
I honestly feel that if you are a Cham descend and you visit Malaysia, you will very easily feel very at home. At to the fact that Malaysia is a multiracial country with Chinese and Indians as well, the fact that there are religious minorities amongst the Cham themselves will make the visit even more meaningful.
Just some of my opinion anyways. I think it's great you're learning more abt your heritage jthi.
I've only really sterted to be very very intrigued about the Cham after reading on the Asiafinest (this site can really be informative at times), and was extremely surpised to find a Malay-related culture in the heart of maindland southeast Asia. Always striked me as strange as to why did they have names starting with Kampong in Cambodia when Khmer didn't sound anything remotely Malay. Then to know that many were also fellow Muslims was an epiphany. Since then I've found out that at least one of my Malaysian friends has Cham parents and that they migrated to Malaysia in the 1970s. To say that they have assimilated very well is a misnomer as there was never much difference to begin with. It's more like a belated homecoming to a second homeland rather than a migration to a foreign country. They still have strong links to Cambodia, though.
As for the Minangkabau society, it's probably best to get the input of someone from Sumatra itself, its original source. The Malays in Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia are actually the only practitioners of the matrilineal 'adat perpatih' compared to the rest of the country which pactrises 'adat temenggung' which includes Malacca.
I honestly feel that if you are a Cham descend and you visit Malaysia, you will very easily feel very at home. At to the fact that Malaysia is a multiracial country with Chinese and Indians as well, the fact that there are religious minorities amongst the Cham themselves will make the visit even more meaningful.
Just some of my opinion anyways. I think it's great you're learning more abt your heritage jthi.
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i learned about gabriela when doing research on women's human rights organizations ... one focusing on the philippines has named itself out of her, in tribute ....
i think there are probably a lot of women from filipina descent involved in this organization.
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GABRIELA Network (GABNet) is a Philippine-US women's solidarity organization, which addresses issues affecting women and children of the Philippines, but which have their root causes in decisions made in the United States. GABNet is an all-volunteer organization of women with chapters in Chicago, Irvine, Los Angeles, New York/New Jersey, Seattle, San Francisco Bay Area, and Washington, DC.
GABRIELA is an acronym standing for General Assembly Binding women for Reform, Integrity, Equality, Leadership, and Action. It also commemorates Gabriela Silang, known as one of the first and fiercest women generals in the Philippines who led the longest series of successful revolts against 18th Century Spanish colonizers.
The organization was formed in 1989 by a group of concerned women who met in Chicago. At that time, the people of the Philippines were protesting the continued presence of US military bases in Clark (Air Force) and Subic Bay (Navy). GABNet decided to work in solidarity with GABRIELA Philippines--that country’s oldest and largest national multi-sectoral alliance of more than 200 women’s organizations, which were at the forefront of the US bases issues--in order to galvanize a US forum for their concerns.
Since our inception we have focused our efforts on organizing, educating, networking, and advocating around the trafficking of Filipinas through the “mail order bride” industry (now known as international matchmaking services), prostitution generated by militarization and tourism, and forced labor migration .
GABNet operates a national speakers' bureau, which offers lecturers and discussants who lead in-depth discussions and multi-media presentations on these issues, and also publishes the bimonthly newsletter, kaWomenan.
gabnet informationGABRIELA is an acronym standing for General Assembly Binding women for Reform, Integrity, Equality, Leadership, and Action. It also commemorates Gabriela Silang, known as one of the first and fiercest women generals in the Philippines who led the longest series of successful revolts against 18th Century Spanish colonizers.
The organization was formed in 1989 by a group of concerned women who met in Chicago. At that time, the people of the Philippines were protesting the continued presence of US military bases in Clark (Air Force) and Subic Bay (Navy). GABNet decided to work in solidarity with GABRIELA Philippines--that country’s oldest and largest national multi-sectoral alliance of more than 200 women’s organizations, which were at the forefront of the US bases issues--in order to galvanize a US forum for their concerns.
Since our inception we have focused our efforts on organizing, educating, networking, and advocating around the trafficking of Filipinas through the “mail order bride” industry (now known as international matchmaking services), prostitution generated by militarization and tourism, and forced labor migration .
GABNet operates a national speakers' bureau, which offers lecturers and discussants who lead in-depth discussions and multi-media presentations on these issues, and also publishes the bimonthly newsletter, kaWomenan.
i think there are probably a lot of women from filipina descent involved in this organization.
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thanks for peeking in on the discussion ...
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Since then I've found out that at least one of my Malaysian friends has Cham parents and that they migrated to Malaysia in the 1970s. To say that they have assimilated very well is a misnomer as there was never much difference to begin with. It's more like a belated homecoming to a second homeland rather than a migration to a foreign country. They still have strong links to Cambodia, though.
interesting! did they evacuate to escape persecution by the pol pot regime? was it hard to escape? did they lose family? in what ways were they unable to assimilate?
i like the 'belated homecoming' explanation, it makes sense ...
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The Malays in Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia are actually the only practitioners of the matrilineal 'adat perpatih' compared to the rest of the country which pactrises 'adat temenggung' which includes Malacca.
adat perpatih is such a unique system. i am impressed by how wealth is accounted for. it seems so fair ... & so complicated, almost like a tax form. but it must not be complicated, it must be completely natural. amazing.
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Wealth in Adat Perpatih is divided into four; harta pembawaan (wealth owned by the wife before marriage), harta dapatan (wealth owned by the wife after marriage), harta carian (wealth gained by the couple after marriage) and harta pesaka (inherited wealth). This rules may appear strict but the philosophy that lies behind it is noble and just. It is this rule that makes Adat Perpatih distinct from other systems.
adat perpatih
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i hope u can share with me any info on Cham Martial Arts when u have the chance!
i have no idea ... i know that they were good warriors, that they rode elephants ... here's some mention of that, along with more background ...
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Champa, as that kingdom was called, is first listed in Chinese records under the name "Linyi", and the date of its founding is given as 192 A.D. Ruled by a king clad in cotton, with gold necklaces and flowers in his hair, the Chams brought up pearls from the South China Sea and produced amazingly potent drugs and incenses. Warriors wore rattan armor and rode elephants in battle, often to raid Chinese settlements.
Like their neighbors to the south and west, the Chams were Malays. Because of their location, Champa was influenced by both Chinese and Indian culture at first. Later on, when the Gupta empire arose in India (4th century), a great deal of commerce between India and Champa took place. The result was that Champa's culture became totally Indianized. Sanskrit was widely used as a sacred language, the kings took on Sanskrit names, and the names of Champa's cities were Sanskrit ones as well: Amaravati (modern Quang Nam), Vijaya (Binh Dinh), Kauthara (Nha Trang), and Panduranga (Phan Rang). At the same time Indian and Cham art were identical.
The mountainous coast of central Vietnam could not provide enough farmland to keep the Chams fed, so from the earliest years their society was ship-oriented, depending on both trade and piracy (with no particular preference) to make a living. Most of the raids were directed north towards the Chinese-occupied part of Vietnam, until the Chinese retaliated by destroying Vijaya, the Cham capital, in 446. Champa fell under Chinese rule until it regained its independence in 510. Thirty years later, the decline of Funan gave the Chams an opportunity to expand south, and they advanced all the way to the edge of the Mekong delta.
In the following centuries Champa exchanged raids with the Chinese, Khmers, and Javanese. The skill of the Cham soldiers, their strong sea power and their virtually unassailable land position all contributed to Champa's success. But their piracy made all of Champa's neighbors enemies, and the Chams got more than they bargained for when the Vietnamese turned out to be as aggressive as they were.
Late in the eighth century Chinese control over Vietnam weakened, encouraging raids from Java (767) and the Thai kingdom of Nan Zhao (862-863); in 780 Champa bit off the provinces of Hue, Quang Tri, and Quang Binh.
http://www.guidetothailand.com/thailand-history/vietnam.htm
© 2000 - 2003 Charles Kimball
i'll keep my eye out for martial arts stuff, & i'll ask my mom if she knows anything.
here is an article discussion the tourist destination that has become my son, the old cham spritual center. the cham man that they interview supposedly has no idea that the cham were once a kingdom, or at least that is what he thinks he's allowed to say.... i am uneasy that tourism is the motive to allow the eastern cham to celebrate their culture. i am wary of any cultural fetishism, but especially for revenue.
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Vestiges of an Empire
By KAY JOHNSON
Ancient Cham ruins near Dalat, Vietnam
Thorny bushes now crown the once grand brick towers of the ancient city of My Son. Carved into a crumbling temple wall, a stone warrior brandishes a sword, defying anyone to challenge the powerful Kingdom of Champa.
Unfortunately, over the centuries many people have. Conquered by Vietnamese invaders, plundered by French colonists and bombed by U.S. warplanes, My Son is now abandoned, one of the few vestiges of an empire all but forgotten. When Zheng He's ships first called on Champa, the powerful Hindu kingdom had dominated central Vietnam for more than 1,000 years. The haven described by the fleet's Chinese chronicler Ma Huan was the rough port town of Qui Nhon, where sarong-wearing, wiry-haired Cham ivory merchants and slave traders plied their wares. Yet in 1471, less than 70 years later, the northern Annam kingdom of ethnic Vietnamese conquered the Chams, driving them south and scattering them. Some remained Hindu but many in Cambodia and southern Vietnam later converted to Islam en masse, and their ancient culture was nearly forgot-ten. "Do you really mean the Chams once had an empire?" asks an incredulous 69-year-old Tran Dinh Liu, an ethnic Cham Hroi farmer who lives less than an hour from a 12th-century Cham tower near Qui Nhon. "I don't know any history of the nation except the revolution," he says, glancing at the communist People's Committee official who is in attendance.
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For years Hanoi—sensitive about any reference to Vietnam's past divisions—has quietly discouraged teaching the country's 100,000 ethnic Cham about their lost empire. "It might break down national unity," says Rosalvy, an ethnic Cham teacher in the southern Vietnamese town of Phum Soai, who like many Muslim Chams goes by only one name. Yet in September the government is holding a Cham festival at the My Son ruins— the first in hundreds of years. Why the change of heart? Desperate to bring revenue and tourists to the country's neglected central region, and boosted by UNESCO's granting My Son World Heritage status in 1999, the government has begun to promote the ruins and Cham heritage. According to the head of the Vietnam Folk Culture and Arts Association, Nguyen Hai Lien: "The Cham people want to prove that the culture symbolized in the ruins still exists."
But in southeastern Ninh Thuan province, home to half the country's Chams, the heirs of the once proud people are more concerned about preserving their current culture and teaching the precepts of their faith to their children in private religious schools. In Phum Soai, a small cluster of Islam in An Giang province, sarongs, prayer caps and head scarves mingle with the more familiar conical hats and trousers, and people make a living fishing, farming and weaving cloth in traditional Cham patterns. The area has no fewer than 12 mosques, and town elder Ismail has just returned from a cherished journey to Mecca. Ismail has never seen My Son or the other Cham ruins in central and southern Vietnam. He wouldn't mind seeing them, he says, but what's important is teaching Cham children religion not ancient history. "The past is the past," he shrugs. "We don't teach about that."
in many countries, so many things are sacrificed at the expense of not wanting to break down national unity ... it makes you realize how weakly held together it all is, if different people cannot co-exist without some percentage of the the people having to assimilate, and deny their heritage.
if cham in viet nam could openly learn & practice the intersections of their indignous beliefs & introduced religion(s) & 2,500 year history ( including the pre-champa precursor Sa Huynh), they would understand the meaning of their practices & lineage & they might feel empowered ... i think there's a fear that they will rise up, perhaps, if they know too much about their once-powerful kingdom.
QUOTE(jthi @ Sep 29 2004, 06:18 AM)
thanks for peeking in on the discussion ...
Since then I've found out that at least one of my Malaysian friends has Cham parents and that they migrated to Malaysia in the 1970s. To say that they have assimilated very well is a misnomer as there was never much difference to begin with. It's more like a belated homecoming to a second homeland rather than a migration to a foreign country. They still have strong links to Cambodia, though.
interesting! did they evacuate to escape persecution by the pol pot regime? was it hard to escape? did they lose family? in what ways were they unable to assimilate?
i like the 'belated homecoming' explanation, it makes sense ...
QUOTE
Since then I've found out that at least one of my Malaysian friends has Cham parents and that they migrated to Malaysia in the 1970s. To say that they have assimilated very well is a misnomer as there was never much difference to begin with. It's more like a belated homecoming to a second homeland rather than a migration to a foreign country. They still have strong links to Cambodia, though.
interesting! did they evacuate to escape persecution by the pol pot regime? was it hard to escape? did they lose family? in what ways were they unable to assimilate?
i like the 'belated homecoming' explanation, it makes sense ...
What I meant was that they had no problems getting used to the Malaysian way of life and that they 'assimilated' very well. My friends doesn't really speak much abt this as she has pretty much been born and lived her life as a Malaysian. Form what I gather her parents were actually teachers in Cambodia and they were doing just fine. They could guess where the pol pot regime was heading for and that was when they made a beeline for Malaysia. I don't think they were in camps or anything. And when the situation deteriorated in Cambodia back then, they applied for asylum or permanent residence in Malaysia and got it. Don't really know how it works. I'm sorry to say that I've heard it's easier for ethnic Cham to get asylum in Malaysia in the 70s compared to the Khmer or Viet. Anyway, I've only met the parents once but from my friend's and her siblings upbringing, there is nothing to differentiate them from most other Malaysian families. They live in a suburb outside KL, just like many of us do. I think that the parents have returned to Cambodia quite often to visit relatives but she's only been there a few times.
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What I meant was that they had no problems getting used to the Malaysian way of life and that they 'assimilated' very well. My friends doesn't really speak much abt this as she has pretty much been born and lived her life as a Malaysian. Form what I gather her parents were actually teachers in Cambodia and they were doing just fine. They could guess where the pol pot regime was heading for and that was when they made a beeline for Malaysia. I don't think they were in camps or anything. And when the situation deteriorated in Cambodia back then, they applied for asylum or permanent residence in Malaysia and got it. Don't really know how it works. I'm sorry to say that I've heard it's easier for ethnic Cham to get asylum in Malaysia in the 70s compared to the Khmer or Viet. Anyway, I've only met the parents once but from my friend's and her siblings upbringing, there is nothing to differentiate them from most other Malaysian families. They live in a suburb outside KL, just like many of us do. I think that the parents have returned to Cambodia quite often to visit relatives but she's only been there a few times.
thank you for telling this story. it's really interesting.
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wow she reminds me of that legend of suriyothai woman who went to battle for her country of Siam! do u know that story? i rented the video not too long ago!
do you know the name of this film? i would like to see it if i can find it.
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Any cute Cham girls?
-Norm
-Norm
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