The Devils Advocate (1997) - Al Pacino (Satan) delivering his speech to Kenau Reeves





http://www.tldm.org/news7/SelfIdolatry.htm

Bodybuilding, business whatever. Should we worship ourselves? What is the difference between self-love, self worship and high self esteem?

As long as we don't worship material possession and from there derived our inflated ego that's worshipping our ego and not our true self. That is not to say material possession is not important. Without attachment of values to oneself, we can understand we are no more or no less than others. From comparision we see others as superior or inferior without realizing that all these values were invented by the false ego. With a breath we take there is life when that breath is gone there is death. We should live life simple like the breath we take easy and gentle. Life is a dream switching frome image to image only change is constant. It is unrealistic to hold on to things and be obssessed as if they are forever unchanged. This is like rowing a boat upstream. As we observe nature, we realize that change is constant.

I went to this career exploration seminar. We were discussing self esteem. How we are supposed to look in a mirror and say positive things.

That seems ridiculous. I think you must earn respect. Nobody in the real world repects you. You must earn it. The comedian late George Carlin criticized the "Self Esteem Movement". In a sense he was right but I didn't agree with many of his views. Some of his comedy was down right cruel.

However, basically you can't tell a kid he is good unless he's earned it. That lowers the standard. So when the kid grows up he can't survive in life. So basically it makes people soft. I suppose this "prosperity message" is another form of the self esteem movement (as expressed especially by Joel Osteen). People are constantly told that God loves them and is supposed to give them what they want without REAL SUFFERING (And does God owe us anything anyways? Should we demand money from God?).

But anyways I do believe that parents and God have a nurturing role. Obviously if you abuse a kid then the kid will grow up with problems. But you can't tell a kid lies (Ex: Your a good kid when in reality your a rude punk.) So a parent should encourage a child to do well but not be a liar. I don't advocate telling kids "They stink" when they lose at sports (Like the heartless George Carlin would). On the other hand, you can't praise a child for an action they didn't do.

Does anyone agree or disagree?

Standards and the measurement of "good" are relative and subjective. Compared to a child that is kicking and screaming on the train over an ice cream bar mommy didn't buy him, a child that is sitting quietly swinging his legs is behaving "good" even though he's not really doing anything at all.

I think the person should look at him/herself as a whole person. The person should look at what he/she has and not what he/she does not have.

The need to say positive things about oneself shows that something is missing. The person does not fully understand himself or herself yet. I think that person needs to look inward often. Sometimes we want something in life but we do not understand there are different ways to get it. For example, happiness...ok for some people means a nice house nice car money in the bank. What about those who in their life time might not able to have any of the things mentioned above? Then what is happiness for them? Sometimes we should wonder how people in third world countries live.

This culture is a culture of consumption bare in mind. If we want to be a part of it but unable to have money to consume, we would feel less than others.



There is something wrong with this picture too it's asking for approval from others for your existence. This kind of respect is superficial.

I have a friend who really loves himself that came to a point that he cannot love anyone anymore because he really loves himself and in the end he ended up alone and old without a wife.

Narcism (self love) is a psycological disorder according to psyciatrists.

That's because many people in western nations worship idols. Mainly money and power.



Exactly. Narcissism is quite widespread among bodybuilders. But it can happen in other ways. Let's say you have a successful company or website. You might tend to become narcissistic and worship the website or company. Not necessarily yourself but really it is yourself because you made the website or company.



Sometimes the opinions of others matter and sometimes they don't. For example, let's say people want to laugh at you but not with you. They like you but only because you are a clown to them. Deep down they don't really respect you. So in that case the opinions of others don't matter. Likewise you can make a lot of friends in Korea if you like to drink. But these people lead you down a bad path. So it's better to have a few real friends.

However, other times the opinons of others matter. For example, if people tell you that your lazy, mean, hateful or something like that. You might want to take notice. Of course, they shouldn't tell you that (Unless it's a form of non-hypocritical righteous judgement). However, sometimes God uses hypocrites to point out our faults. It's a sort of punishment from God. A bad karma.

The bottom line is what is clean is clean and what is dirty is dirty. You can't say your a good person when in reality your full of sin. Now, that doesn't mean you should hold your head down low and be sad. But you should repent of your sin and then you can be happy and self-confident again. A true self confidence because your really holy and clean.

So it goes back to that "Salvation is not by faith alone" thing. Do you agree?

I would say it is also a matter of self-awareness, and self-awareness is impossible without being aware of the world around you. You only can become aware of your self when you can be aware of you + the world around you. So it is a question of healthy observation of your self and the self of others.

To love your self MORE as loving other people is a question of rating your self compared with other selfs. When this is done this would be of subjective nature. When somebody would love his or her self more because, as an example, one consider ones self to be more beautifull as other peoples self, something that could be theoretical correct, then this person rates beauty as being the most valid qualification of a self. Healthy observing/thinking people know this would be a limited qualification of the self.

On the other hand it would be interesting to look at what we understand by the idea LOVE.
What is love? When love is an action of a human soul it would be interesting to see the difference between love as an action of the soul towards ones self and as an action of the soul towards other selfs. So it is not especially what is correct, but probably more what is the result of.....

Most people in love with them self have a shortage in being a SELF wich they try to compensate with some specific unbalanced ways of selflove, is it by the body or is it by the brain.

I think it's good to have some people who respect you but not from their respect you gain your self-confidence. That's unnecessary in my opinion. If you already know yourself, their respect might not matter much. If it matters much, there is a problem.