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preahvihear
It is said that there are two sides to a story. So this post is inspired by the other post that asked for the "Mongol side" of things. From the Internet sources, the Mongols who ruled China demanded submission from various kingdoms located in the Southeast Asia. However, the Mongols were not successful in conquering any of them. This is not to say that the Mongols were not brilliant troopers. If any native forces chose to face the Mongols in the frontal assults, the Mongols would summarily wipe them out without question.

So please tell us your "Mongol" version of the invasions:

(1) The Mongol invasions of Dai Viet (Vietnam)
(2) The Mongol invasions of Champa (ceased to exist as it is now fully annexed by Vietnam)
(3) The Mongol invasion of Java (modern-day Indonesia)
(4) The Mongol invasion of Burma (modern-day Myanmar)
(5) The Mongol invasion of Nanchao (southern China)
(6) The Mongol invasion of Laos???
(7) The Mongol invasion of the Kingdom Mong Mao (present-day northern Thailand)

The Mongol Dynasty in China and the Khmer Empire is an interesting one. It is by the recorded journal of the ambassador from the Mongol court that the people of the world today can have a glimps of what it was like during the heyday of the Khmer Empire.

However, I don't know whether this information below is accurate or not, but I was very surprise to find that the Mongols in China wanted the Khmer Empire to be its vassal. embarassedlaugh.gif

QUOTE
• Khmer empire.[150] In 1278, a Mongol envoy was executed by the Khmer king. An envoy was sent again to demand submission when the Yuan army was besieging the fortress in Champa. 100 Mongol cavalries sent to Khmer after the imprisonment of the second envoy. They were ambushed and destroyed by the Khmers. However, the King of Khmer Empire sent tribute in 1285 due to his war-like neighbours and Kublai Khan's rage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire


If the information is correct, then it was a wise choice for the Khmer King to avoid any conflicts with the Mongols because accrodiing to the Mongol embassador to the kingdom, the Khmer Empire was ravaged by the Thai troops. So it was best to deal with ONE FOE and not two at the same time.

Your contribution is appreciated.



Suzuka00
QUOTE(preahvihear @ Apr 8 2009, 08:42 PM) [snapback]4192785[/snapback]
It is said that there are two sides to a story. So this post is inspired by the other post that asked for the "Mongol side" of things. From the Internet sources, the Mongols who ruled China demanded submission from various kingdoms located in the Southeast Asia. However, the Mongols were not successful in conquering any of them. This is not to say that the Mongols were not brilliant troopers. If any native forces chose to face the Mongols in the frontal assults, the Mongols would summarily wipe them out without question.

So please tell us your "Mongol" version of the invasions:

(1) The Mongol invasions of Dai Viet (Vietnam)
(2) The Mongol invasions of Champa (ceased to exist as it is now fully annexed by Vietnam)
(3) The Mongol invasion of Java (modern-day Indonesia)
(4) The Mongol invasion of Burma (modern-day Myanmar)
(5) The Mongol invasion of Nanchao (southern China)
(6) The Mongol invasion of Laos???
(7) The Mongol invasion of the Kingdom Mong Mao (present-day northern Thailand)

The Mongol Dynasty in China and the Khmer Empire is an interesting one. It is by the recorded journal of the ambassador from the Mongol court that the people of the world today can have a glimps of what it was like during the heyday of the Khmer Empire.

However, I don't know whether this information below is accurate or not, but I was very surprise to find that the Mongols in China wanted the Khmer Empire to be its vassal. embarassedlaugh.gif
If the information is correct, then it was a wise choice for the Khmer King to avoid any conflicts with the Mongols because accrodiing to the Mongol embassador to the kingdom, the Khmer Empire was ravaged by the Thai troops. So it was best to deal with ONE FOE and not two at the same time.

Your contribution is appreciated.

nanchao=old thailand

if nanchao was not invaded cambodia would not be in trouble.
Indrataka1
They got destroyed by Jayavarman VIII lolz! Dam! He's not even one of the greatest kings in Angkor! Remember that our Empire falled because of our irrigation system and the spread of diseases! The emerging Thai's only played a small part into the demise of our kingdom. Imagine if Jayavarman VII ruled during that time lolz!
truthstilltruth
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 8 2009, 09:53 PM) [snapback]4192942[/snapback]
nanchao=old thailand

if nanchao was not invaded cambodia would not be in trouble.

Nanshao related to some loloish-burman tribes( I do not know which tribe are more related because a lot of different tribes have claimed the origin of Nanshao)
BTW the mongol invade Dali, which is a kingdom ruled by a group of Bai.
Majapahitans
Actually the Mongol (failed) invasion to Java is celebrated as one of our ancient triumph in some of Indonesian epic novel and film such as Tutur Tinular and Senopati Pamungkas
Its a prelude for the rising of Majapahit Empire.

QUOTE
Mongol invasion of Java

Date: 1293
Location: Java, modern Indonesia
Result: Majapahit victory

Belligerents:
Yuan Dynasty of the Mongol Empire vs The Kingdom of Singhasari and Majapahit Dynasty

Commanders:
Kublai Khan
Shi-bi
Ike Mese
Gaoxing

Jayakatwang
Raden Wijaya

Strength:
20-30,000 More than 100,000

Casualties and losses:
More than 3,000 killed More than 5,000 killed and drowned

During the reign of Kublai Khan, the Great Khan of the Mongol Empire and the founder of the Yuan Dynasty, a large invasion fleet was sent to Java with over 20,000[1]-30,000 soldiers by the Great Khan Kublai in 1293. This was a punitive expedition against Singhasari King Kertanegara who had disrespected the Yuan by tatooing on a Han Chinese messenger Meng Qi (孟琪)'s face and refusing to pay tribute.

Background
Kublai Khan had sent envoys to many states in order to maintain trade and cultural contact and request them to put themselves under his protection and to pay tribute. Men Shi or Meng-qi, one of his ministers who was sent to Java, was not well received in Java. The king of Java, Kertanagara offended at his proposal and branded him in the face with a hot iron as is done to common thieves, and scornfully sent him on his way.

After defeating Srivijaya in Sumatra in 1290, Singhasari became the most powerful kingdom in the area. But Jayakatwang, the Adipati (Duke) of Kediri, a vassal state of Singhasari, had usurped and killed Kertanagara. Most of his relatives and former royal family members hated him. After being pardoned by Jayakatwang with the aid of Madura's regent, Arya Wiraraja; Raden Wijaya, Kertanegara's son-in-law, was given the land of Tarik timberland. He then opened that vast timberland and built a new village there. The village was named Majapahit, which was taken from a fruit name that had bitter taste in that timberland (maja is the fruit name and pahit means bitter).

Great khan was shocked and ordered a punitive expedition against barbarian king whom he had once called in 1292. According to Yuan shi - The history of Yuan Dynasty, 20,000 - 30,000 (Tong jian ganagmu) were collected from Fujian, Jiangxi and Huguang in Southern China, that there will be 1000 ships, provisions for a year. Officers were Mongol Shi-bi, Uyghur Ike Mese and Gaoxing Chinese. What kind of ships they used for the campaign is not mentioned in The history of Yuan Dynasty, but they were apparently large since smaller boats had to be constructed for entering the rivers of Java. It is known that they stopped at Ko-lan (Belitung).

Invasion
Mongols passed through the coast of Dai Viet and Champa along the way to their primary target. And small states of Malay and Sumatra submitted and sent envoys to them. Yuan commanders left darughachis there. After arriving in Java, Shi-bi split the forces up into one group sent ashore and a second which proceeded by boat, had gone ahead first before the main army. As noted in Kidung Panji-Wijayakrama, they probably looted coastal village Tuban.

When Mongolian Yuan army sent by Kublai Khan arrived Java, Wijaya allied himself with the army to fight against Jayakatwang and give Mongols a map of the country Kalang. According to Yuan-shi, Wijaya attacked Jayakatwang without success when he heard of the arrival of Yuan navy. Then he requested their aid. In response, Yuan generals demanded his submission to their emperor and he accepted it.


The account of the war which appear in Yuan-shi (Books 210) is brief as above:

“… The soldiers from Dahanese came to attack Wijaya on the 7th day of the month, Ike Mese and Gaoxing came on 8th, some Dahanse were defeated, rest of them fled to the mountains. On the 19th day, Mongols and their allies arrived in Daha, fought more than 100,000 soldiers, attacking 3 times, killing 5000 outright while forcing many thousands into the river where they drowned. Jayatkatwang retreated into his palace …”

Once Jayakatwang was destroyed tastily by the Mongols, Raden Wijaya forced his allies to withdraw from Java by launching a surprise attack. Shi-bi and Ike Mese allowed Tuan Wijaya to go back to his country for preparing sending tribute and a new letter of submission. But Gaoxing disliked the idea and he warned other two. Wijaya asked Mongols to come his dominion without any weapon. Unarmed 200 soldiers headed by 2 officers were sent to their country. But they were ambushed and destroyed by Majapahit army.

Yuan's army had to withdraw in confusion as they were in hostile territory. It was also their last chance to catch the monsoon winds home; otherwise, they would have had to wait for another six months on a hostile island. Yuan army lost more than 3,000 of their best soldiers.

Aftermath
Three generals, who had gotten much booty in gold, precious stones and some captives, went back to their empire with surviving Mongol soldiers. Upon their arrival, Shi-bi was condemned to receive 70 lashes and a third of his property were confiscated for allowing Wijaya to escape. And Ike Mese also was reprimanded and a third of his property take away by the court of Yuan Dynasty. But Gaoxing rewarded 50 taels of gold for protecting soldiers from a total disaster. It was Kublai khan's last expedition.

Later, Shibi and Ike Mese were shown mercy and the Emperor restored their reputation and property.

Majapahit became most powerful medieval state of its era in modern Indonesia.
CTM2000
The Mongols always had a weak spot in SE Asia. Cheers to SE Asian states for repelling the most ruthless war machine during that time.
Suzuka00
why did genghis khan never attempted to conquer taiwan and the philippines.
Bixielovestofart
They were poor or even r they existed as a country ?
sorry for my weak knowledge
truthstilltruth
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 9 2009, 12:44 PM) [snapback]4193817[/snapback]
why did genghis khan never attempted to conquer taiwan and the philippines.

because their warships were destroyed by typhoon when they wanted to invade japan.
ShambhalistaLVL5
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 9 2009, 12:44 PM) [snapback]4193817[/snapback]
why did genghis khan never attempted to conquer taiwan and the philippines.



Actually, they did try to invade the Philippines.
We'll at least one kingdom in the Philippines.

A Mongol fleet was dispatched from China to invade a prehispanic Philippine kingdom: "The Kingdom of Tiwalisi" in the Pangasinan region.

Apparently a battalion of troops killed off the entire Tiwalisi royal family and the only survivor "Princess Urduja" however became a warrior-princess and single handedly repulsed the entire invading armada. ^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urduja
Suzuka00
QUOTE(ShambhalistaLVL5 @ Apr 10 2009, 02:41 AM) [snapback]4194612[/snapback]
Actually, they did try to invade the Philippines.
We'll at least one kingdom in the Philippines.

A Mongol fleet was dispatched from China to invade a prehispanic Philippine kingdom: "The Kingdom of Tiwalisi" in the Pangasinan region.

Apparently a battalion of troops killed off the entire Tiwalisi royal family and the only survivor "Princess Urduja" however became a warrior-princess and single handedly repulsed the entire invading armada. ^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urduja

It was by Kublai Khan not Genghis Khan.

i think urduja/debuca is a queen i know that symbolized the ancient "proto-philippine" people (filipinos used to be a single ethnic group with an unknown name) although she is just a pangasinense-ibaloi of the tiwalisi people.
chiuchimu
QUOTE(ShambhalistaLVL5 @ Apr 10 2009, 03:41 AM) [snapback]4194612[/snapback]
Apparently a battalion of troops killed off the entire Tiwalisi royal family and the only survivor "Princess Urduja" however became a warrior-princess and single handedly repulsed the entire invading armada. ^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urduja


Sorry, but I don't believe this. Not without better support than Wikipedia The wiki has been wrong, misleading or bios too many times for me to use as a source.

Are there multiple nations with archaeological documents or artifacts to confirm these events? Everywhere the Mongolians went in Europe, there is a huge amount of evidence and documents.

This princess Urduja story is so amazing, why is this the first time I've heard of it? Why isn't it a Hollywood movie by now?
NiEspirituNgTao
ROFL the great terror of Europe, Arabia and China.
The vicious Khans. The mighty giants which slew the empires of old.
All failed to conquer a bunch of small kingdoms in Southeast Asia.

embarassedlaugh.gif
ShambhalistaLVL5
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 10 2009, 02:49 AM) [snapback]4194618[/snapback]
It was by Kublai Khan not Genghis Khan.

i think urduja/debuca is a queen i know that symbolized the ancient "proto-philippine" people (filipinos used to be a single ethnic group with an unknown name) although she is just a pangasinense-ibaloi of the tiwalisi people.



K fine it was an attack from China under the Kublai Khan not an direct attack from Mongolia under Ghengis Khan. Urduja/Deboxa's existence however is still doubtable since all written records of her only come from the diary of a certain, Ibn Batuta of the sultanate of Moroco. While the oral accounts of her is shrouded in mythology, the mythology of the Pangasinense people and the Ibaloi tribe.
Bor chono
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 10 2009, 01:44 AM) [snapback]4193817[/snapback]
why did genghis khan never attempted to conquer taiwan and the philippines.

We Mongols have word "Taiwan" or "Taivan" or "Thaiwan" meaning "PEACEFUL" biggthumpup.gif
zuvhunchamruu
I didn't know we went to that many SEA states???? are you sure???
baybal
Do you know Babur has sent expeditions to Australia far before any Europeans
preahvihear
QUOTE(zuvhunchamruu @ Apr 11 2009, 10:15 AM) [snapback]4195967[/snapback]
I didn't know we went to that many SEA states???? are you sure???


Me no lie to you. embarassedlaugh.gif Me tell you truth from bottom of heart. Actually, yes, it was well recorded by the Yuan Dynasty of China. All Mongol expeditions against Southeast Asian nations ended in defeats. First of all, the Southeast Asians were/are WORLD FAMOUS guerilla fighters. The Mongols were harrassed, inflicted, and killed mercilessly. In addition, the Mongols could not ever stand the Southeast Asian heat, diseases, the thick hot humid forests, and the lack of food. The Mongols were known to sweep and burn and kill of the inhabitants of the lands they invaded. But how could the Mongols invade the enemies that already burn down their own capitals, hid their food supplies, abandon their homes, and hid from the Mongols already. embarassedlaugh.gif Therefore, it was the Mongols that were lured into the traps of death itself.
KaiKavous
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 9 2009, 12:44 PM) [snapback]4193817[/snapback]
why did genghis khan never attempted to conquer taiwan and the philippines.


the khan had an idea of conquering near by countries first before going father along plus the khans had bad luck in the water, like the Persians before them and Arabs, water seems to get the people who live by the saddle whooped for some reason.
Mid-Night_Sun
QUOTE(preahvihear @ Apr 13 2009, 02:48 AM) [snapback]4197898[/snapback]
Me no lie to you. embarassedlaugh.gif Me tell you truth from bottom of heart. Actually, yes, it was well recorded by the Yuan Dynasty of China. All Mongol expeditions against Southeast Asian nations ended in defeats. First of all, the Southeast Asians were/are WORLD FAMOUS guerilla fighters. The Mongols were harrassed, inflicted, and killed mercilessly. In addition, the Mongols could not ever stand the Southeast Asian heat, diseases, the thick hot humid forests, and the lack of food. The Mongols were known to sweep and burn and kill of the inhabitants of the lands they invaded. But how could the Mongols invade the enemies that already burn down their own capitals, hid their food supplies, abandon their homes, and hid from the Mongols already. embarassedlaugh.gif Therefore, it was the Mongols that were lured into the traps of death itself.

if they had to burn their own capitals that's already pretty bad :/ how much more defeat do you need. not being conquered isnt the same as surviving by running and hiding...
MyEmpireHPCServer2008
The mongolians have fought a bloody war with China for almost 60 years long, 30 times longer than any other wars they have fought kiss.gif

And they have lost their emperor during the war but they still keep trying. kiss.gif

Finally they won thanks to the massive number of horses they got, but they controlled China for less than 90 years before get overthrown, roughly 1/4-1/3 the time they controlled the other parts of the world they took kiss.gif

As for the rest of the world, they either take them easily or stopped by whatever trivial reasons and dont bother to try again, its only China, they keep tried for 60 years and wont stop even their emperors were dead in the war, basically thats give you an idea about their priority at that time kiss.gif

You know, when you live in a Palace you need always keep an eye on the outsiders who always want to take it from you, but when you lives in a toilet, you dont need to lock the door and dont need to worry about if you lose your toilet to others since few want it in the first place kiss.gif

And typically nomads owns huge number of horses, and in ancient battlefield, hores=tanks, therefore all the nomads were quite difficult to handle in a plain area, thats why they were all big problems for major civilizations in the past even through all of them become jokes now kiss.gif

But horses in the past were not nearly as useful in moutain/forest area just like tanks today, thats why they aint as efficient in SEA kiss.gif
preahvihear
QUOTE(Mid-Night_Sun @ Apr 13 2009, 05:29 AM) [snapback]4198045[/snapback]
if they had to burn their own capitals that's already pretty bad :/ how much more defeat do you need. not being conquered isnt the same as surviving by running and hiding...


You seem disappointed there. embarassedlaugh.gif There is no need for you to be. It is called a military strategy. This allowed the natives to deprive the Mongol invaders the pleasure of getting to objectifying and destroying the war booties. In addition, the native soldiers/people stayed hidden out of sight from the Mongols and when the Mongols were least expected, then came the sudden ferocious attacks. The natives didn't just "survive by running and hiding" as you think they were. embarassedlaugh.gif It was rather the Mongols who were retreating (running and hiding) so that they could survive the jaw of death itself. The final verdict is: Mongol Defeat.



Indrataka1
I always wonder this! How come nobody wants to attack the Khmer Empire when Jayavarman VII reigned lolz!!!
truthstilltruth
QUOTE(Indrataka1 @ Apr 13 2009, 03:52 PM) [snapback]4198493[/snapback]
I always wonder this! How come nobody wants to attack the Khmer Empire when Jayavarman VII reigned lolz!!!

Most of the mongols can not adapt the hot wet tropical climate.
Mid-Night_Sun
QUOTE(preahvihear @ Apr 13 2009, 04:29 PM) [snapback]4198448[/snapback]
You seem disappointed there. embarassedlaugh.gif There is no need for you to be. It is called a military strategy. This allowed the natives to deprive the Mongol invaders the pleasure of getting to objectifying and destroying the war booties. In addition, the native soldiers/people stayed hidden out of sight from the Mongols and when the Mongols were least expected, then came the sudden ferocious attacks. The natives didn't just "survive by running and hiding" as you think they were. embarassedlaugh.gif It was rather the Mongols who were retreating (running and hiding) so that they could survive the jaw of death itself. The final verdict is: Mongol Defeat.


disappointed? with what :/

QUOTE(preahvihear @ Apr 13 2009, 02:48 AM) [snapback]4197898[/snapback]
Me no lie to you. embarassedlaugh.gif Me tell you truth from bottom of heart. Actually, yes, it was well recorded by the Yuan Dynasty of China. All Mongol expeditions against Southeast Asian nations ended in defeats. First of all, the Southeast Asians were/are WORLD FAMOUS guerilla fighters. The Mongols were harrassed, inflicted, and killed mercilessly. In addition, the Mongols could not ever stand the Southeast Asian heat, diseases, the thick hot humid forests, and the lack of food. The Mongols were known to sweep and burn and kill of the inhabitants of the lands they invaded. But how could the Mongols invade the enemies that already burn down their own capitals, hid their food supplies, abandon their homes, and hid from the Mongols already. embarassedlaugh.gif Therefore, it was the Mongols that were lured into the traps of death itself.


remember thats your quote. now you say its mongols who were running and hiding. we just have different outlooks on war. if i was to go to war, and i have to run out of my house, burn my kitchen, and hide in my god damn back yard just to attack now and again so the house stays in my name but im not in it. id rather surrender or move, attack later. i dont care if the house is in the other guys name for a bit if i can take it back later through the same way he took it.

preahvihear
QUOTE(Mid-Night_Sun @ Apr 14 2009, 03:20 AM) [snapback]4198893[/snapback]
disappointed? with what :/remember thats your quote. now you say its mongols who were running and hiding. we just have different outlooks on war. if i was to go to war, and i have to run out of my house, burn my kitchen, and hide in my god damn back yard just to attack now and again so the house stays in my name but im not in it. id rather surrender or move, attack later. i dont care if the house is in the other guys name for a bit if i can take it back later through the same way he took it.


No matter how you much you want to hold me down to the specific word I used and how you see the Mongols, one thing is clear that the unlike Europe and Middle East, where the Mongols could sweep up on the conquered people and massacared them at will and used the conquered people's food supplies, it didn't happen in Southeast Asia where the Mongols were lured into the jaw of death where the Mongol leaders were trapped and killed and the Mongol troops were decimated and the Mongol supplies destroyed and even the great Khan himself was put to shame. embarassedlaugh.gif

You can keep rationalizing it all you want, but the fact is that the Mongols were not able to hold any grips on the Southeast Asia region. However, the Mongols were able to strangle Europe and Middle East because those conquered people rationalized the way you do now. biggthumpup.gif






CTM2000
Southeast Asia deserves praise....they did what most other regions of the world (China, Europe, the Middle East, Northern India) could not do and that was halt the Mongols. It's ironic because alot of people look down on SE Asia as a backwards inferior people yet countries like Vietnam and Indonesia will able to do what their people could not. Hopefully people will think twice before insulting the people of SE Asia.
thehorsemen
We don't look DOWN on SE asia, as they aren't worth looking AT in the first place.
Indrataka1
Mongols are only good at expanding their territory but that's about it! They didn't build anything great lolz!
thehorsemen
Lol coming from pure ignorance. You have to have something to "expand territory" and that's not all we did @$$hole, read some fu-king books.
Indrataka1
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 06:31 PM) [snapback]4200917[/snapback]
Lol coming from pure ignorance. You have to have something to "expand territory" and that's not all we did @$$hole, read some fu-king books.



lolz.. truth hurts! embarassedlaugh.gif
CTM2000
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:01 PM) [snapback]4200896[/snapback]
We don't look DOWN on SE asia, as they aren't worth looking AT in the first place.

Really? Then why did the Mongols attempt to conquer that region? Why send an army/navy to a region that wasn't worth looking at?
thehorsemen
Think we wanted your people when we came in? Nope, sorry, now quit trying to feel better about yourself at our expense.
Indrataka1
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 06:36 PM) [snapback]4200925[/snapback]
Think we wanted your people when we came in? Nope, sorry, now quit trying to feel better about yourself at our expense.



Then why were you guys there in th first place lolz!! embarassedlaugh.gif
thehorsemen
lol Resources are more precious than your people will ever be.
CTM2000
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:36 PM) [snapback]4200925[/snapback]
Think we wanted your people when we came in? Nope, sorry, now quit trying to feel better about yourself at our expense.

Uhh the whole point of conquest was to bring territory, people and resources under their control. If the Mongols didn't care about conquering SE Asian states like Vietnam or Java, why did they attempt to do so many times?

QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:39 PM) [snapback]4200929[/snapback]
lol Resources are more precious than your people will ever be.


Yep resources your people never had access to because they got their asses kicked every time they tried to acquire it.
thehorsemen
I just answered that. We didn't give a damn about your people, money and resources were more in demand for us than you ever were.
thehorsemen
We did? Thats why we fought others more in our history than we ever did fighting ourselves and we had the largest empire in the history of the world, I'm sorry you fail. If you want to make yourselves feel ethnically superior, don't fu-king do it in mongol chat.
CTM2000
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:41 PM) [snapback]4200934[/snapback]
I just answered that. We didn't give a damn about your people, money and resources were more in demand for us than you ever were.

Right and each and every time your people tried to acquire that "Money" and "Resources", your people failed because you got your asses kicked.
thehorsemen
Each time? Yuan Dynasty must be a foreign language to you, wait it is.

Now take my fu-king advice, and take it to viet chat.
CTM2000
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:41 PM) [snapback]4200934[/snapback]
I just answered that. We didn't give a damn about your people, money and resources were more in demand for us than you ever were.

Right and each and every time your people tried to acquire that "Money" and "Resources", your people failed because you got your asses kicked.

QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:41 PM) [snapback]4200934[/snapback]
We did? Thats why we fought others more in our history than we ever did fighting ourselves


Actually I'm not a person of SE Asian descent, I'm merely giving those people praise for doing what most other states at the time failed to do. And what you said is not true either. The Mongols spent a good portion of their history warring with each other. That's part of the reason the empire broke up. Even Kublai had to eliminate many family rivals before he could start his dynasty and the division continued long after the Mongol Empire broke apart. It's part of the reason the Chinese and eventually the Russians were able to expand their interests in those lands.

QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:41 PM) [snapback]4200934[/snapback]
and we had the largest empire in the history of the world, I'm sorry you fail.


Good for you but that still doesn't change the fact that these measly SE Asians that you apparently look down upon sent your people packing when they attempted to subjugate them

QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:41 PM) [snapback]4200934[/snapback]
Each time? Yuan Dynasty must be a foreign language to you, wait it is.


We're not talking about the Yuan Dynasty you moron, we know the Mongols conquered China. We're talking about the Mongol attempts to conquer SE Asian states like Vietnam and Indonesia, both of which failed miserably.
thehorsemen
And I can refute everything you just said by using your own logic. How can we get our asses kicked "each time" if we conquered china? Your logic is flawed.
CTM2000
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 05:54 PM) [snapback]4200954[/snapback]
And I can refute everything you just said by using your own logic. How can we get our asses kicked "each time" if we conquered china? Your logic is flawed.

For the last time, that's because WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHINA you dumbass. Last time I checked, SE Asian countries like Vietnam and Indonesia are not China. We are talking about Mongol attempts to conquer SE Asia. This had nothing to do with looking down on the Mongolian people, I was merely giving praise to countries like Vietnam and Indonesia for repelling the Mongol invasions, something other regions of the world like CHINA, Europe and the Middle East could not do. What is so hard for you to understand about that? Are you mentally challenged or something?
thehorsemen
Oh, so we only ever went after SE Asia, wow even this is news to me that was a hot commodity. Whats hard for me to understand is I don't like people like the SE asians, Koreans, ect trying to one up one another by using us and quite frankly I'm getting sick of it.
CTM2000
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 06:00 PM) [snapback]4200961[/snapback]
Oh, so we only ever went after SE Asia, wow even this is news to me that was a hot commodity.


Nobody is stating that the Mongols only went after SE Asia. In fact I clearly mentioned that the Mongols beat down China, Europe and the Middle East but ironically they were never able to subjugate two smaller states from a region that many nationalists and historians consider insignificant which are the SE Asian states of Vietnam and Indonesia.

QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 06:00 PM) [snapback]4200961[/snapback]
Whats hard for me to understand is I don't like people like the SE asians, Koreans, ect trying to one up one another by using us and quite frankly I'm getting sick of it.


Off-topic but good to know you're a racist.
Hyperplasia
QUOTE(CTM2000 @ Apr 17 2009, 05:58 PM) [snapback]4200959[/snapback]
For the last time, that's because WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHINA you dumbass.


Yes, but China is VERY relevant as it relates to yourself, right? icon_wink.gif
thehorsemen
Yup, it's racist for not wanting to be used as a weapon in other ethnic battles for the OTHERS advantage, alright then, I'm a racist, and proud.
chiuchimu
Mongols failed in SE Asia.

Many Mongol post here open admit it and some Mongols have even praised the fighting ability of SE Nations. If the Mongols belittle the effort they put into the SE campaign, its probably because its true. How can you call him a lier? just because his account doesn't match your account? There is at least two sides to every story and this thread is about hearing Mongol side.

I can see why some SE Asians might get angry about this - To think the great battle won was only because the otherside didn't try. But most people in the world would probably agree that the Mongols didn't try all that hard in SE. The reason? Historical accounts written in English don't even mention an SE campaign in any significance. So I think you should attack English written History books and argue to put your side into the books first before telling a Mongol that his side of the story is a lie.

thehorsemen
No I think you should show some respect and not come in here like you're better than us, I'm sorry the "english translated history" means nothing here. So quit trying to cover your own tracks.
snookman
QUOTE(thehorsemen @ Apr 17 2009, 03:00 PM) [snapback]4200961[/snapback]
Oh, so we only ever went after SE Asia, wow even this is news to me that was a hot commodity. Whats hard for me to understand is I don't like people like the SE asians, Koreans, ect trying to one up one another by using us and quite frankly I'm getting sick of it.


shouldn't that be a compliment in a twisted sort of way. but anyways, here's my logic why southeast asia and western europe wasn't attempted. do u know how the mongol military was design for. they were superior horsemen and archers. their attack was swift and fast. they also, use something call military build up and recon which means they study their opponent before they attacked. history has said that they went as far as to the gates of vienna which is in austria. thats exactly where we split east and western europe. they also came down to southern china. when the mongols got to vienna, history says it that their current khan, i cant remember, past away, so the troops return home and never return to that area. what is it about western europe and southeast asia. its the terrain. its full of trees.

the mongol military is based on speed. they could mobilize troops and travel them at 60 miles per day. thats unheard of at the time. this is why, they were unstoppable in the open field. but, in the trees, it was harder for them. possibly why, southeast asia and western europe didnt get much attention. well, western europe was not attempted at all. probably could be because of the outcome of southeast asia. ofcourse, this is an educated guess. i've seen other guesses and i leave it open for discussion.
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