http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2009/a...090413top6.html
Philippines files claim over
Benham Rise with UN body
By Tessa Jamandre, Vera Files
The Philippines has filed before the United Nations a claim over Benham Rise, an extinct volcanic ridge off the east coast of Luzon, beating the May 13 deadline for states to submit claims over their extended continental shelves.
The Philippine delegation deposited the claim with the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS) in New York City on April 8, making clear it was only a “partial submission.”
This means that other submissions, including those over disputed territories, would be made later. The disputed Kalayaan Island Group, which part of the Spratly Islands, and Scarborough Shoal are also said to be part of the country’s extended continental shelf and are believed to contain oil, natural gas, minerals and polymetals.
By filing the claim over Benham Rise, which is undisputed territory, the government has stopped the clock on the UN deadline and buys time to sort out border issues with its neighbors over the Kalayaan islands and Scarborough Shoal.
“As a gesture of good faith, the Philippines makes this partial submission in order to avoid creating or provoking maritime boundary disputes where there are none, or exacerbating them where they may exist, in areas where maritime boundaries have not yet been delimited between opposite or adjacent coastal States,” said the government in its partial submission.
The UN defines the continental shelf as the “the seabed and subsoil of the submarine areas that extend beyond its territorial sea” up to 200 nautical miles from the archipelagic baseline. A continental shelf that goes farther than 200 nautical miles is called the extended continental shelf.
Claim to Benham Rise
The Philippine claim over Benham Rise was prepared long before Congress enacted Republic Act 9522, or the Archipelagic Baselines Law, whose constitutionality is being questioned in the Supreme Court.
The Benham Rise Region is bounded by the Philippine Basin on the north and east, and by Luzon on the west and south. The submission asserted that Benham Rise is an extension of the Philippines’ continental shelf based on seismic, magnetic, gravity and other geological data collected.
The executive summary of the Philippine submission said the baselines used in the partial submission conform with the requirements of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and were used as the basis for delineating the maritime territorial and jurisdictional zones, including the continental shelf.
It was Philippine Ambassador to the UN Hilario Davide who filed the country’s partial submission with the commission. Among those who traveled to New York for the submission were lawyer Henry Bensurto, secretary general of the Center for Maritime and Ocean Affairs of the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs, and Ambassador Minerva Falcon, head of the department’s Foreign Service Institute.
A Philippine delegation is again expected to travel to New York to deposit the rest of the submissions in August, when the commission meets en banc.
Within UN rules
Bensurto said in an interview before leaving for New York that UN rules allow a partial submission. The government’s executive summary quoted the UN commission rules of procedure that “partial submissions may therefore be made by a single coastal State for areas of its continental shelf that are not the subject of a maritime boundary dispute or a future maritime boundary delimitation.”
Galo Carrera-Hurtado of Mexico, a commissioner of the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, helped the Philippines prepare its submission.
The Benham Rise Region is not subject to any maritime boundary disputes, claims or controversies, the executive summary said.
The country’s west coast facing the South China Sea is another matter. The Archipelagic Baselines Law has redrawn the country’s outer limits and from there, its extended continental shelf and exclusive economic zones overlap with Japan, China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Palau, Malaysia and Indonesia.
All these overlaps projected from the newly enacted baseline law will have to be subject to border delimitation agreements before a complete and final submission to the UN is made.
Bensurto said that if an agreement is reached in border talks, then the Philippines could submit a claim unilaterally or jointly with the country concerned.
“For the controversial areas we don’t give up any claim, but we allow time, process, diplomacy or whatever tools are available to resolve it because anyway that is not going to be subject to any deadline,” he said. “So we just . . . do a partial submission in an area that is noncontroversial, nondisputed because if we insist to submit on contested areas nothing will happen, it will just be shelved.”
Full Version: Philippines claims Benham Rise
QUOTE(dreiiftw @ Apr 13 2009, 07:36 PM) [snapback]4198604[/snapback]
http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2009/a...090413top6.html
Philippines files claim over
Benham Rise with UN body
By Tessa Jamandre, Vera Files
The Philippines has filed before the United Nations a claim over Benham Rise, an extinct volcanic ridge off the east coast of Luzon, beating the May 13 deadline for states to submit claims over their extended continental shelves.
The Philippine delegation deposited the claim with the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS) in New York City on April 8, making clear it was only a “partial submission.”
This means that other submissions, including those over disputed territories, would be made later. The disputed Kalayaan Island Group, which part of the Spratly Islands, and Scarborough Shoal are also said to be part of the country’s extended continental shelf and are believed to contain oil, natural gas, minerals and polymetals.
By filing the claim over Benham Rise, which is undisputed territory, the government has stopped the clock on the UN deadline and buys time to sort out border issues with its neighbors over the Kalayaan islands and Scarborough Shoal.
“As a gesture of good faith, the Philippines makes this partial submission in order to avoid creating or provoking maritime boundary disputes where there are none, or exacerbating them where they may exist, in areas where maritime boundaries have not yet been delimited between opposite or adjacent coastal States,” said the government in its partial submission.
The UN defines the continental shelf as the “the seabed and subsoil of the submarine areas that extend beyond its territorial sea” up to 200 nautical miles from the archipelagic baseline. A continental shelf that goes farther than 200 nautical miles is called the extended continental shelf.
Claim to Benham Rise
The Philippine claim over Benham Rise was prepared long before Congress enacted Republic Act 9522, or the Archipelagic Baselines Law, whose constitutionality is being questioned in the Supreme Court.
The Benham Rise Region is bounded by the Philippine Basin on the north and east, and by Luzon on the west and south. The submission asserted that Benham Rise is an extension of the Philippines’ continental shelf based on seismic, magnetic, gravity and other geological data collected.
The executive summary of the Philippine submission said the baselines used in the partial submission conform with the requirements of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and were used as the basis for delineating the maritime territorial and jurisdictional zones, including the continental shelf.
It was Philippine Ambassador to the UN Hilario Davide who filed the country’s partial submission with the commission. Among those who traveled to New York for the submission were lawyer Henry Bensurto, secretary general of the Center for Maritime and Ocean Affairs of the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs, and Ambassador Minerva Falcon, head of the department’s Foreign Service Institute.
A Philippine delegation is again expected to travel to New York to deposit the rest of the submissions in August, when the commission meets en banc.
Within UN rules
Bensurto said in an interview before leaving for New York that UN rules allow a partial submission. The government’s executive summary quoted the UN commission rules of procedure that “partial submissions may therefore be made by a single coastal State for areas of its continental shelf that are not the subject of a maritime boundary dispute or a future maritime boundary delimitation.”
Galo Carrera-Hurtado of Mexico, a commissioner of the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, helped the Philippines prepare its submission.
The Benham Rise Region is not subject to any maritime boundary disputes, claims or controversies, the executive summary said.
The country’s west coast facing the South China Sea is another matter. The Archipelagic Baselines Law has redrawn the country’s outer limits and from there, its extended continental shelf and exclusive economic zones overlap with Japan, China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Palau, Malaysia and Indonesia.
All these overlaps projected from the newly enacted baseline law will have to be subject to border delimitation agreements before a complete and final submission to the UN is made.
Bensurto said that if an agreement is reached in border talks, then the Philippines could submit a claim unilaterally or jointly with the country concerned.
“For the controversial areas we don’t give up any claim, but we allow time, process, diplomacy or whatever tools are available to resolve it because anyway that is not going to be subject to any deadline,” he said. “So we just . . . do a partial submission in an area that is noncontroversial, nondisputed because if we insist to submit on contested areas nothing will happen, it will just be shelved.”
Philippines files claim over
Benham Rise with UN body
By Tessa Jamandre, Vera Files
The Philippines has filed before the United Nations a claim over Benham Rise, an extinct volcanic ridge off the east coast of Luzon, beating the May 13 deadline for states to submit claims over their extended continental shelves.
The Philippine delegation deposited the claim with the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS) in New York City on April 8, making clear it was only a “partial submission.”
This means that other submissions, including those over disputed territories, would be made later. The disputed Kalayaan Island Group, which part of the Spratly Islands, and Scarborough Shoal are also said to be part of the country’s extended continental shelf and are believed to contain oil, natural gas, minerals and polymetals.
By filing the claim over Benham Rise, which is undisputed territory, the government has stopped the clock on the UN deadline and buys time to sort out border issues with its neighbors over the Kalayaan islands and Scarborough Shoal.
“As a gesture of good faith, the Philippines makes this partial submission in order to avoid creating or provoking maritime boundary disputes where there are none, or exacerbating them where they may exist, in areas where maritime boundaries have not yet been delimited between opposite or adjacent coastal States,” said the government in its partial submission.
The UN defines the continental shelf as the “the seabed and subsoil of the submarine areas that extend beyond its territorial sea” up to 200 nautical miles from the archipelagic baseline. A continental shelf that goes farther than 200 nautical miles is called the extended continental shelf.
Claim to Benham Rise
The Philippine claim over Benham Rise was prepared long before Congress enacted Republic Act 9522, or the Archipelagic Baselines Law, whose constitutionality is being questioned in the Supreme Court.
The Benham Rise Region is bounded by the Philippine Basin on the north and east, and by Luzon on the west and south. The submission asserted that Benham Rise is an extension of the Philippines’ continental shelf based on seismic, magnetic, gravity and other geological data collected.
The executive summary of the Philippine submission said the baselines used in the partial submission conform with the requirements of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and were used as the basis for delineating the maritime territorial and jurisdictional zones, including the continental shelf.
It was Philippine Ambassador to the UN Hilario Davide who filed the country’s partial submission with the commission. Among those who traveled to New York for the submission were lawyer Henry Bensurto, secretary general of the Center for Maritime and Ocean Affairs of the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs, and Ambassador Minerva Falcon, head of the department’s Foreign Service Institute.
A Philippine delegation is again expected to travel to New York to deposit the rest of the submissions in August, when the commission meets en banc.
Within UN rules
Bensurto said in an interview before leaving for New York that UN rules allow a partial submission. The government’s executive summary quoted the UN commission rules of procedure that “partial submissions may therefore be made by a single coastal State for areas of its continental shelf that are not the subject of a maritime boundary dispute or a future maritime boundary delimitation.”
Galo Carrera-Hurtado of Mexico, a commissioner of the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, helped the Philippines prepare its submission.
The Benham Rise Region is not subject to any maritime boundary disputes, claims or controversies, the executive summary said.
The country’s west coast facing the South China Sea is another matter. The Archipelagic Baselines Law has redrawn the country’s outer limits and from there, its extended continental shelf and exclusive economic zones overlap with Japan, China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Palau, Malaysia and Indonesia.
All these overlaps projected from the newly enacted baseline law will have to be subject to border delimitation agreements before a complete and final submission to the UN is made.
Bensurto said that if an agreement is reached in border talks, then the Philippines could submit a claim unilaterally or jointly with the country concerned.
“For the controversial areas we don’t give up any claim, but we allow time, process, diplomacy or whatever tools are available to resolve it because anyway that is not going to be subject to any deadline,” he said. “So we just . . . do a partial submission in an area that is noncontroversial, nondisputed because if we insist to submit on contested areas nothing will happen, it will just be shelved.”
the claim should include orchid island.
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 19 2009, 12:39 AM) [snapback]4202313[/snapback]
the claim should include orchid island.
yup we own that island too but it is now under taiwan.
QUOTE(dreiiftw @ Apr 19 2009, 01:47 AM) [snapback]4202356[/snapback]
yup we own that island too but it is now under taiwan.
there should be more pinoys who should settle there especially ivatans so it can be reclaimed.
*expects some chicom to claim that Benham Rise is chinese by the historical proof of a Ming junk present.........and a little $hit smudge at some old Ming maps.*
i hate these commie fu-kers, i wanna genocide their rat cockroach population.
QUOTE(godamit @ Apr 19 2009, 01:12 PM) [snapback]4202599[/snapback]
i hate these commie fu-kers, i wanna genocide their rat cockroach population.
Well, let's cool down. Mainland China is one of our biggest investors. Though we sometimes have conflicting interests, but that should not strain the good relationship we have with this neighbor of ours. I know this can be settled well. Let's project a "friendly country" image, then you will be surprised money will start coming in.
QUOTE(dreiiftw @ Apr 19 2009, 10:47 AM) [snapback]4202356[/snapback]
yup we own that island too but it is now under taiwan.
what?!? i thought taiwan is ours too...we should get it back. damn commies.
QUOTE(Pogpog @ Apr 19 2009, 01:04 PM) [snapback]4202646[/snapback]
what?!? i thought taiwan is ours too...we should get it back. damn commies.
orchid island is filipino because a filipino tribe/ethnicity migrated there,the yami and their language belongs to the philippine language group,which wiki says so.
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 19 2009, 10:07 PM) [snapback]4202648[/snapback]
orchid island is filipino because a filipino tribe/ethnicity migrated there,the yami and their language belongs to the philippine language group,which wiki says so.
great! now we have a claim to get those back, do you have any proof like some "ancient" -made-up historical account to back up our claims? even a photoshopped map would do i think, the chinese are doing it, why can't we?
In Recto. They make documents look like the real ones.
QUOTE(silangan @ Apr 19 2009, 02:41 PM) [snapback]4202920[/snapback]
In Recto. They make documents look like the real ones.
Indeed
QUOTE(Pogpog @ Apr 19 2009, 01:48 PM) [snapback]4202675[/snapback]
great! now we have a claim to get those back, do you have any proof like some "ancient" -made-up historical account to back up our claims? even a photoshopped map would do i think, the chinese are doing it, why can't we?
it's the most legitimate claim actually.
QUOTE
The Tao (traditional Chinese: 達悟族), commonly known by the misnomer Yami (雅美), are a Taiwanese aboriginal people, native to tiny outlying Orchid Island in Taiwan. The Tao are an Austronesian people linguistically and culturally closer to the Ivatan people of the Batanes islands in the Philippines than to other aboriginal peoples on the main island of Taiwan. The word "Tao" (pronounced Ta-o) means "person" or "people" in both the Tao language and all Philippine languages. The Tao people are traditionally good at making canoes, which is a symbol of their tribe.
In the year 2000 the Yami numbered 3,872. This was approximately 1% of Taiwan's total indigenous population. [1]
In the year 2000 the Yami numbered 3,872. This was approximately 1% of Taiwan's total indigenous population. [1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_people
Forget about Sabah, Orchid Islands, Marianas, Sulawesi, etc... because its already too late and hard to claim those legally. The Philippines must just concentrate and fight for Spratleys and Benham Rise because the Philippines have a strong and legal position to claim those territories at this moment.
The Philippines does not actually need China because the Philippines is a self reliant, resourceful and independent country. China will only benefit from its investments like building large malls then selling China products and will the Filipino benefit from it?
QUOTE(silangan @ Apr 19 2009, 12:36 PM) [snapback]4202628[/snapback]
Well, let's cool down. Mainland China is one of our biggest investors. Though we sometimes have conflicting interests, but that should not strain the good relationship we have with this neighbor of ours. I know this can be settled well. Let's project a "friendly country" image, then you will be surprised money will start coming in.
The Philippines does not actually need China because the Philippines is a self reliant, resourceful and independent country. China will only benefit from its investments like building large malls then selling China products and will the Filipino benefit from it?
Let us claim all other nearby islands!!!!
so more than 7, 100 islands during low tide.
so more than 7, 100 islands during low tide.
regarding sabah
sabah does not belong to the philippines but orchid island and sulawesi is a part of our cultural sphere,iyon ang dapat nating iclaim wag nating iclaim ang lugar na hindi naman sa atin and don't share the same culture.
let's support the filipino community in sabah instead.
sabah does not belong to the philippines but orchid island and sulawesi is a part of our cultural sphere,iyon ang dapat nating iclaim wag nating iclaim ang lugar na hindi naman sa atin and don't share the same culture.
let's support the filipino community in sabah instead.
WHo cares about Sabah, I mean hell do you really want to join a still third world majority christian country or be with a country thats alreayd goddam connected to you plus they have one of the tallest towers to boot.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
QUOTE(martin_nuke @ Apr 20 2009, 04:48 PM) [snapback]4203737[/snapback]
The Philippines does not actually need China because the Philippines is a self reliant, resourceful and independent country. China will only benefit from its investments like building large malls then selling China products and will the Filipino benefit from it?
In this global economy, no country even the US or China can be self-reliant
Kung tutuo ang sinasabi mo e di sana mayaman na ang Pilipinas.
QUOTE(AlfonsoCastro @ Apr 22 2009, 07:41 AM) [snapback]4204800[/snapback]
WHo cares about Sabah, I mean hell do you really want to join a still third world majority christian country or be with a country thats alreayd goddam connected to you plus they have one of the tallest towers to boot.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
Taipei 101 had dethrone Malaysia's petronas tower, Philippines will have its own version of a tower !!!! 
QUOTE(Ek-ek @ Apr 22 2009, 08:19 AM) [snapback]4204835[/snapback]
Taipei 101 had dethrone Malaysia's petronas tower, Philippines will have its own version of a tower !!!!sigh.
HENCE I SAID "one of" theres a friggin difference.
QUOTE(Ek-ek @ Apr 20 2009, 09:07 PM) [snapback]4203809[/snapback]
Let us claim all other nearby islands!!!!
so more than 7, 100 islands during low tide.
so more than 7, 100 islands during low tide.
It's going to be more than 10,000 islands, including all the claimed islands.
QUOTE(AlfonsoCastro @ Apr 21 2009, 07:41 PM) [snapback]4204800[/snapback]
WHo cares about Sabah, I mean hell do you really want to join a still third world majority christian country or be with a country thats alreayd goddam connected to you plus they have one of the tallest towers to boot.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
What do you mean by "join". They should leave if they don't want to be under Phil control. The claim to Sabah is older than Philippines itself.
The claim to Sabah will stay. Our Muslim relatives in the south would feel abandoned by us should we drop the claim to Sabah.
QUOTE(martin_nuke @ Apr 21 2009, 10:19 PM) [snapback]4204979[/snapback]
Ours is ours. Nothing to do with towers, wealth or might. That's a sign of insecurity complex.
Sabah claim will continue. Our Muslim ancestors claimed it. We will continue claiming it.
One day we'll get it. We may not see it happen in our time.
QUOTE(silangan @ Apr 22 2009, 06:51 AM) [snapback]4205473[/snapback]
What do you mean by "join". They should leave if they don't want to be under Phil control. The claim to Sabah is older than Philippines itself.
The claim to Sabah will stay. Our Muslim relatives in the south would feel abandoned by us should we drop the claim to Sabah.
The claim to Sabah will stay. Our Muslim relatives in the south would feel abandoned by us should we drop the claim to Sabah.
the ethnic groups in sabah are not closely related to ethnic groups in the philippines except for bajau,a claim to sulawesi is more valid.
cebuano language can expand it's territory to sabah in a few centuries.
I for one am not really in favour of pursuing the Sabah claim, now I don't hate Muslims but the inclusion of Sabah would upset the demographic balance of our country. Our identity as a one of the bastions of Christianity (and Roman Catholicism in particular) MAY be threatened. The rest of our claims though we must pursue with vigour. If there are territories that we have a greater claim compared to Sabah these would be the Pacific islands that were controlled by Spain via Manila (like the Carolines, the Marianas, Guam, and Palau). These islands were once dependencies of the Philippines when we were all part of the Spanish East Indies.
There are many Christian Filipinos in Sabah.
QUOTE(ueberschmuck @ Apr 23 2009, 08:24 AM) [snapback]4206131[/snapback]
I for one am not really in favour of pursuing the Sabah claim, now I don't hate Muslims but the inclusion of Sabah would upset the demographic balance of our country. Our identity as a one of the bastions of Christianity (and Roman Catholicism in particular) MAY be threatened. The rest of our claims though we must pursue with vigour. If there are territories that we have a greater claim compared to Sabah these would be the Pacific islands that were controlled by Spain via Manila (like the Carolines, the Marianas, Guam, and Palau). These islands were once dependencies of the Philippines when we were all part of the Spanish East Indies.
you need to get laid...bastion of christianity my @$$.
QUOTE
I for one am not really in favour of pursuing the Sabah claim, now I don't hate Muslims but the inclusion of Sabah would upset the demographic balance of our country. Our identity as a one of the bastions of Christianity (and Roman Catholicism in particular) MAY be threatened. The rest of our claims though we must pursue with vigour. If there are territories that we have a greater claim compared to Sabah these would be the Pacific islands that were controlled by Spain via Manila (like the Carolines, the Marianas, Guam, and Palau). These islands were once dependencies of the Philippines when we were all part of the Spanish East Indies.
palauans and chamorros have lots of filipino blood even before the spanish came.
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 23 2009, 03:39 AM) [snapback]4206199[/snapback]
palauans and chamorros have lots of filipino blood even before the spanish came.
They are proud to be considered as their own people, comfortable in their own skin, unlike some Filipinos who claim to be Spanish, islander or Chinese simply because of their last name.
To claim others as Filipino even when they enjoy their identity as theirs alone is like China claiming Tibet.
QUOTE(LeeBiddo @ Apr 23 2009, 05:57 AM) [snapback]4206205[/snapback]
They are proud to be considered as their own people, comfortable in their own skin, unlike some Filipinos who claim to be Spanish, islander or Chinese simply because of their last name.
To claim others as Filipino even when they enjoy their identity as theirs alone is like China claiming Tibet.
To claim others as Filipino even when they enjoy their identity as theirs alone is like China claiming Tibet.
that is why we can't claim sabah as ours philippine language group speakers did not conquer sabah completely even if the sabahans have filipino blood just like the micronesians the only ones we can claim are parts of sulawesi and orchid island who speak philippine languages.
i hate wannabes as well
QUOTE(ueberschmuck @ Apr 22 2009, 09:24 PM) [snapback]4206131[/snapback]
I for one am not really in favour of pursuing the Sabah claim, now I don't hate Muslims but the inclusion of Sabah would upset the demographic balance of our country. Our identity as a one of the bastions of Christianity (and Roman Catholicism in particular) MAY be threatened. The rest of our claims though we must pursue with vigour. If there are territories that we have a greater claim compared to Sabah these would be the Pacific islands that were controlled by Spain via Manila (like the Carolines, the Marianas, Guam, and Palau). These islands were once dependencies of the Philippines when we were all part of the Spanish East Indies.
These islands were never controlled by Philippines BEFORE the Spanish East Indies. What gives you the idea that they want to be controlled by the Philippines AFTER the Spanish have long been gone. They enjoy prosperity being under the protection of the US, they can freely travel and work within US borders and have benefits entitled to them by the US federal government.
QUOTE(LeeBiddo @ Apr 23 2009, 06:04 AM) [snapback]4206209[/snapback]
These islands were never controlled by Philippines BEFORE the Spanish East Indies. What gives you the idea that they want to be controlled by the Philippines AFTER the Spanish have long been gone. They enjoy prosperity being under the protection of the US, they can freely travel and work within US borders and have benefits entitled to them by the US federal government.
they are not even a part of our cultural area in the pre-hispanic times which includes sulawesi and orchid island.
micronesians and the borneans are very nice to us and trade with us in the past and even helped us but we don't have the right to claim their lands.
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 23 2009, 04:01 AM) [snapback]4206208[/snapback]
that is why we can't claim sabah as ours philippine language group speakers did not conquer sabah completely even if the sabahans have filipino blood just like the micronesians the only ones we can claim are parts of sulawesi and orchid island who speak philippine languages.
i hate wannabes as well
i hate wannabes as well
Even with Filipino DNA flowing from their ancestry, there are a majority that will resent that statement. It's like going to Indonesia and telling Indonesians that they are part of the Filipino identity when Indonesians will insist that we are part of the Indonesian identity.
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 23 2009, 04:06 AM) [snapback]4206210[/snapback]
they are not even a part of our cultural sphere.
It's more political than it is cultural. The cultural similarities do exist, but the political stability of being under the US agreements have people believe, and reinforced that belief, that they are their own people.
QUOTE(LeeBiddo @ Apr 23 2009, 06:10 AM) [snapback]4206214[/snapback]
It's more political than it is cultural. The cultural similarities do exist, but the political stability of being under the US agreements have people believe, and reinforced that belief, that they are their own people.
they,the sabahans and micronesians don't speak a language of the close knit philippine language group,but the only ethnic groups who speak a language of it outside the philippines are the gorontalo mongondow of indonesia,who split after bajaus split from the rest of filipinos and the yami who migrated from batanes to orchid island.
http://language.psy.auckland.ac.nz/austronesian/research.php
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 23 2009, 04:20 AM) [snapback]4206220[/snapback]
they don't speak a language of the close knit philippine language group.
Their languages, especially the grammar patterns, are the same as it belongs in the Austronesian family.
Austronesian languages
formerly Malayo-Polynesian languages
Family of about 1,200 languages spoken by more than 200 million people in Indonesia, the Philippines, Madagascar, the central and southern Pacific island groups (except most of New Guinea; see Papuan languages), and parts of mainland Southeast Asia and the island of Taiwan. Before European colonial expansion, it had the widest territorial extent of any language family. A primary genetic division in the family separates the Austronesian languages of Taiwan from the remaining languages, which are divided into Western and Central-Eastern Malayo-Polynesian. Western Malayo-Polynesian includes Javanese, which is spoken by about 76 million people—more than a third of all Austronesian speakers. Eastern Malayo-Polynesian includes Oceanic, the best-defined subgroup of Austronesian, comprising nearly all the languages of Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...language+family
QUOTE(LeeBiddo @ Apr 23 2009, 06:29 AM) [snapback]4206226[/snapback]
Their languages, especially the grammar patterns, are the same as it belongs in the Austronesian family.
Austronesian languages
formerly Malayo-Polynesian languages
Family of about 1,200 languages spoken by more than 200 million people in Indonesia, the Philippines, Madagascar, the central and southern Pacific island groups (except most of New Guinea; see Papuan languages), and parts of mainland Southeast Asia and the island of Taiwan. Before European colonial expansion, it had the widest territorial extent of any language family. A primary genetic division in the family separates the Austronesian languages of Taiwan from the remaining languages, which are divided into Western and Central-Eastern Malayo-Polynesian. Western Malayo-Polynesian includes Javanese, which is spoken by about 76 million people—more than a third of all Austronesian speakers. Eastern Malayo-Polynesian includes Oceanic, the best-defined subgroup of Austronesian, comprising nearly all the languages of Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...language+family
Austronesian languages
formerly Malayo-Polynesian languages
Family of about 1,200 languages spoken by more than 200 million people in Indonesia, the Philippines, Madagascar, the central and southern Pacific island groups (except most of New Guinea; see Papuan languages), and parts of mainland Southeast Asia and the island of Taiwan. Before European colonial expansion, it had the widest territorial extent of any language family. A primary genetic division in the family separates the Austronesian languages of Taiwan from the remaining languages, which are divided into Western and Central-Eastern Malayo-Polynesian. Western Malayo-Polynesian includes Javanese, which is spoken by about 76 million people—more than a third of all Austronesian speakers. Eastern Malayo-Polynesian includes Oceanic, the best-defined subgroup of Austronesian, comprising nearly all the languages of Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...language+family
yes,they are all austronesian but there is a family of austronesian languages on malayo-polynesian that is almost only found in the philippines.
fig.1
Malayo-Polynesian (100% confidence)
-Sulu-Philippines (75%)
--Sama-Bajaw (100%)
--Philippines (100%)
Indo-Melanesian (98%)
--Bornean (65%)
--Nuclear Malayo-Polynesian (75%)
fig.2
Philippine-Gorontalo
-Gorontalo-Mongondow languages
-Philippine proper
--Northern Philippine
---Batanic languages
---Central Luzon languages
---Northern Luzon languages
--Central-Southern Philippine
---Central-Palawanic
---Central Philippine
---Palawanic
----Palawan languages
----Kalamian languages
----South Mangyan languages
----Mindanao languages (including South Mindanao)
fig. 3
Central Philippine
-Tagalog
-Bikol-Visayan (80% confidence)
--Bikol
--Visaya-Mansakan
---Visayan
---Mansakan
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_languages
QUOTE(Suzuka00 @ Apr 23 2009, 04:33 AM) [snapback]4206230[/snapback]
yes,they are all austronesian but there is a family of austronesian languages on malayo-polynesian that is almost only found in the philippines.
Same grammar patterns, different deviations of the words. You know what i'm talking about because you've done the research.
Ask a linguist.
QUOTE(LeeBiddo @ Apr 23 2009, 06:37 AM) [snapback]4206232[/snapback]
Same grammar patterns, different deviations of the words. You know what i'm talking about because you've done the research.
Ask a linguist.
Ask a linguist.
fig.1
Malayo-Polynesian (100% confidence)
-Sulu-Philippines (75%)
--Sama-Bajaw (100%)
--Philippines (100%)
Indo-Melanesian (98%)
--Bornean (65%)
--Nuclear Malayo-Polynesian (75%)
fig.2
Philippine-Gorontalo
-Gorontalo-Mongondow languages
-Philippine proper
--Northern Philippine
---Batanic languages
---Central Luzon languages
---Northern Luzon languages
--Central-Southern Philippine
---Central-Palawanic
---Central Philippine
---Palawanic
----Palawan languages
----Kalamian languages
----South Mangyan languages
----Mindanao languages (including South Mindanao)
fig. 3
Central Philippine
-Tagalog
-Bikol-Visayan (80% confidence)
--Bikol
--Visaya-Mansakan
---Visayan
---Mansakan
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_languages
this is what i was talking about.
i posted a recent thread about that.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...p;#entry4204255
Same grammar patterns, different deviations of the words.
This is what i was talking about:
http://smallislandnotesan.blogspot.com/200...e-directly.html
And this:
QUOTE
Language taxonomy
For more information, see: Linguistic typology
The classification of natural languages can be performed on the basis of different underlying principles (different closeness notions, respecting different properties and relations between languages); important directions of present classifications are:
•paying attention to the historical evolution of languages results in a genetic classification of languages - which is based on genetic relatedness of languages;
•paying attention to the internal structure of languages (grammar) results in a typological classification of languages - which is based on similarity of one or more components of the language's grammar across languages;
•and respecting geographical closeness and contacts between language-speaking communities results in areal groupings of languages.
The different classifications do not match each other and are not expected to, but the correlation between them is an important point for many linguistic research works. (There is a parallel to the classification of species in biological phylogenetics here: consider monophyletic vs. polyphyletic groups of species.)
The task of genetic classification belongs to the field of historical-comparative linguistics, of typological - to linguistic typology.[1]
Genetic classification
See also: Comparative linguistics
The world's languages have been grouped into families of languages that are accepted as having common ancestors. Some of the major families are the Indo-European languages, the Afro-Asiatic languages, the Austronesian languages, and the Sino-Tibetan languages. The shared features of languages from one family can be due to shared ancestry. (Compare with homology in biology.)
Typological classification
An example of a typological classification is the classification of languages on the basis of the basic order of the verb, the subject and the object in a sentence into several types: SVO, SOV, VSO, and so on, languages. (English, for instance, belongs to the SVO language type.)
The shared features of languages of one type (= from one typological class) may have arisen completely independently. (Compare with analogy in biology.) Their co-occurrence might be due to the universal laws governing the structure of natural languages - language universals.
Areal classification
The following language groupings can serve as some linguistically significant examples of areal linguistic units, or sprachbunds: Balkan linguistic union, or the bigger group of European languages; Caucasian languages. Although the members of each group are not closely genetically related, there is a reason for them to share similar features, namely: their speakers have been in contact for a long time within a common community and the languages converged in the course of the history.
These are called areal features.
N.B.: one should be careful about the underlying classification principle for groups of languages which have apparently a geographical name: besides areal linguistic units, the taxa of the genetic classification (language families) are often given names which themselves or parts of which refer to geographical areas.
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Natural_language
For more information, see: Linguistic typology
The classification of natural languages can be performed on the basis of different underlying principles (different closeness notions, respecting different properties and relations between languages); important directions of present classifications are:
•paying attention to the historical evolution of languages results in a genetic classification of languages - which is based on genetic relatedness of languages;
•paying attention to the internal structure of languages (grammar) results in a typological classification of languages - which is based on similarity of one or more components of the language's grammar across languages;
•and respecting geographical closeness and contacts between language-speaking communities results in areal groupings of languages.
The different classifications do not match each other and are not expected to, but the correlation between them is an important point for many linguistic research works. (There is a parallel to the classification of species in biological phylogenetics here: consider monophyletic vs. polyphyletic groups of species.)
The task of genetic classification belongs to the field of historical-comparative linguistics, of typological - to linguistic typology.[1]
Genetic classification
See also: Comparative linguistics
The world's languages have been grouped into families of languages that are accepted as having common ancestors. Some of the major families are the Indo-European languages, the Afro-Asiatic languages, the Austronesian languages, and the Sino-Tibetan languages. The shared features of languages from one family can be due to shared ancestry. (Compare with homology in biology.)
Typological classification
An example of a typological classification is the classification of languages on the basis of the basic order of the verb, the subject and the object in a sentence into several types: SVO, SOV, VSO, and so on, languages. (English, for instance, belongs to the SVO language type.)
The shared features of languages of one type (= from one typological class) may have arisen completely independently. (Compare with analogy in biology.) Their co-occurrence might be due to the universal laws governing the structure of natural languages - language universals.
Areal classification
The following language groupings can serve as some linguistically significant examples of areal linguistic units, or sprachbunds: Balkan linguistic union, or the bigger group of European languages; Caucasian languages. Although the members of each group are not closely genetically related, there is a reason for them to share similar features, namely: their speakers have been in contact for a long time within a common community and the languages converged in the course of the history.
These are called areal features.
N.B.: one should be careful about the underlying classification principle for groups of languages which have apparently a geographical name: besides areal linguistic units, the taxa of the genetic classification (language families) are often given names which themselves or parts of which refer to geographical areas.
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Natural_language
QUOTE(AlfonsoCastro @ Apr 22 2009, 07:41 AM) [snapback]4204800[/snapback]
WHo cares about Sabah, I mean hell do you really want to join a still third world majority christian country or be with a country thats alreayd goddam connected to you plus they have one of the tallest towers to boot.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
Wait, what do you want to do? Pull of a Blitzkrieg on them like in '39, man will that be funny as fu-k, sure, try it with bronco and cessna planes.
But the Philippines has six of the world's 20 largest malls - the greatest number among all nations.
QUOTE(LeeBiddo @ Apr 23 2009, 08:33 AM) [snapback]4206266[/snapback]
Same grammar patterns, different deviations of the words.
This is what i was talking about:
http://smallislandnotesan.blogspot.com/200...e-directly.html
And this:
This is what i was talking about:
http://smallislandnotesan.blogspot.com/200...e-directly.html
And this:
languages in the philippines are closely related to each other genetically as a subgroup of malayo polynesian and languages in the philippines influence each other so there is a cultural sphere and areal relation as well.
Everytime a topic about geography pops up one way or another it will just come down to this languages topic and bull$hit.
It is really sad that people surrounding us treat us as a buffer state..we lost territories that belongs to kingdoms here because of that such as orchid island,sabah and sulawesi.
Guam and all those Pacific Islands were administered from Manila. If the US and other European power had not wanted them, Germans were really after any islands in the Pacific, and the Philippines had managed to stay Independent in 1898 and had sent Filipino troops to those Pacific islands chances are they would still be part of the Philippines.
The Chamorro language and culture on Guam was almost extinct. They are trying to revive it but its a uphill fight. It got hit hard under US control of Guam. They say if not for the Spaniards who wrote down the Chamorro language it would have been extinct decades ago.
On to Sabah. The Philippines claim to Sabah is not the entire State. Its around 1/3 of Sabah. There are major cities in that one third.
More Filipinos then Malay people in Sabah.
It seems the Filipinos make up most of those Non-Malaysian Citizens. Seems they do not advertise the majority of those 25% has Filipinos because they know has a separate group they are the largest. They just mention the Chinese.
Seems recognizing the Filipinos huge population in Sabah would create political problems especially for the Malay controlled Central government on the Malayan Peninsula. The Malay might be majority on the Malayan Peninsula but in Sabah they only make up 11.5% while the Filipinos the majority of those 25%. Some sources say Filpinos make up 30% of the population of Sabah.
Found this a while back. Never posted it but will this time. Seems many Sabah children of illegal immigrants from the Philippines are not recognized has being Citizens of Malaysia. The Malaysian govt. know if they start recognizing them that in time Filipinos could have much political power in Sabah. By the way. The original inhabitants of Sabah do not want to be pushed around by the Malay controlled Central government but also do not want Filipinos moving in. They do not want to become minorities in there own State.
This is the Video on Filipinos and there children in Sabah. Really informative:
Part One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGDXjuaKwxk...PL&index=25
Part Two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFI95BYVpI...feature=related
The Chamorro language and culture on Guam was almost extinct. They are trying to revive it but its a uphill fight. It got hit hard under US control of Guam. They say if not for the Spaniards who wrote down the Chamorro language it would have been extinct decades ago.
QUOTE
The school's and government's use of the English language on Guam has been consistent since the arrival of the Americans in 1898. As was common at the time of U.S. occupation of this island, the schools became instruments of indoctrination. Americanization of the occupants of the island began almost immediately through the use of the English language as a medium of instruction for an imported curriculum based on U.S. culture and history
(Underwood 1987, S nchez, 1987). Once the schools were opened to the Chamorros, they readily accepted the ways and
language of the American military in charge of teaching them (Governor Schroeder, Annual Report, 1902). Students learned to pledge allegiance to the United States flag, pay homage to heroes of the American Revolution and sing patriotic songs in English (Governor's Report, 1904). Up until 1950, the U.S. military had been responsible for the imposition of this language in the schools, but with the signing of the Organic Act of Guam, islanders gave governmental sanction to the measure. The Organic Act explicitly states that:
"English is the official language for instruction and it is expected that all teachers and pupils will use English during the
hours school is in session. This is in keeping with one of the major educational objectives in Guam to make English a fluent and effective medium of communication for all citizens of the United States." (Organic Act of Guam, 1950)
The schools encouraged identification with everything American, including the language, and from 1900 to the present,
English has continued to be the medium of instruction in the public schools and Universities of Guam (Safford, General Order 13, 1900; Government Code of Guam, Title XII, Section 11201).
The government of Guam has also used English as its medium of communication between offices and with the people of Guam since the arrival of the Americans. In 1900, all those who became employees of the government were required to take an oath in English (General Order #25, 1900). General Order #48 issued on January 17, 1903 required that all affidavits and notarizing of documents had to be in English, and in 1906, Governor Potts
issued an order for all court records and land registry to be kept in the English language (Special Order #17, Sept. 15, 1906).
None of these orders have been repealed, and in 1993, all laws were still being published in English. Marriage and Birth
Certificates were issued in English with no Chamorro translation. All government correspondence was in English and in spite of an Executive Order (number 84-6, 1987) requiring that letterheads and logos of government correspondence use both languages, the Governor's letterhead continues to contain only the logo in English. Peter Onedero, Chairman of the Chamorro Language Commission in 1993, revealed that any attempts he has made to use the Chamorro language in official correspondence has been met with resistance, often followed by petitions for English translations of the correspondence sent (Interview, Peter Onedero, 1993). It wasn't until 1974 that Chamorro was even considered as an official language of Guam with the condition that it "shall not (emphasis mine) be required for official recording of public acts and transactions" (Government of Guam, Public Law 12-132, Section 3000).
Another factor known to promote shift is that of migration, where a large population of speakers of another language come in contact with the natives. In Guam, two such incidences occurred that may have been influential in promoting a shift to English:
the arrival of a massive population of U.S. military personnel as a consequence of WWII and in more recent years, the surge of immigration from the different non-Chamorro speaking areas of Asia and Micronesia.
(Underwood 1987, S nchez, 1987). Once the schools were opened to the Chamorros, they readily accepted the ways and
language of the American military in charge of teaching them (Governor Schroeder, Annual Report, 1902). Students learned to pledge allegiance to the United States flag, pay homage to heroes of the American Revolution and sing patriotic songs in English (Governor's Report, 1904). Up until 1950, the U.S. military had been responsible for the imposition of this language in the schools, but with the signing of the Organic Act of Guam, islanders gave governmental sanction to the measure. The Organic Act explicitly states that:
"English is the official language for instruction and it is expected that all teachers and pupils will use English during the
hours school is in session. This is in keeping with one of the major educational objectives in Guam to make English a fluent and effective medium of communication for all citizens of the United States." (Organic Act of Guam, 1950)
The schools encouraged identification with everything American, including the language, and from 1900 to the present,
English has continued to be the medium of instruction in the public schools and Universities of Guam (Safford, General Order 13, 1900; Government Code of Guam, Title XII, Section 11201).
The government of Guam has also used English as its medium of communication between offices and with the people of Guam since the arrival of the Americans. In 1900, all those who became employees of the government were required to take an oath in English (General Order #25, 1900). General Order #48 issued on January 17, 1903 required that all affidavits and notarizing of documents had to be in English, and in 1906, Governor Potts
issued an order for all court records and land registry to be kept in the English language (Special Order #17, Sept. 15, 1906).
None of these orders have been repealed, and in 1993, all laws were still being published in English. Marriage and Birth
Certificates were issued in English with no Chamorro translation. All government correspondence was in English and in spite of an Executive Order (number 84-6, 1987) requiring that letterheads and logos of government correspondence use both languages, the Governor's letterhead continues to contain only the logo in English. Peter Onedero, Chairman of the Chamorro Language Commission in 1993, revealed that any attempts he has made to use the Chamorro language in official correspondence has been met with resistance, often followed by petitions for English translations of the correspondence sent (Interview, Peter Onedero, 1993). It wasn't until 1974 that Chamorro was even considered as an official language of Guam with the condition that it "shall not (emphasis mine) be required for official recording of public acts and transactions" (Government of Guam, Public Law 12-132, Section 3000).
Another factor known to promote shift is that of migration, where a large population of speakers of another language come in contact with the natives. In Guam, two such incidences occurred that may have been influential in promoting a shift to English:
the arrival of a massive population of U.S. military personnel as a consequence of WWII and in more recent years, the surge of immigration from the different non-Chamorro speaking areas of Asia and Micronesia.
On to Sabah. The Philippines claim to Sabah is not the entire State. Its around 1/3 of Sabah. There are major cities in that one third.
More Filipinos then Malay people in Sabah.
QUOTE
Estimate population in 2007 was 3,400,000.
• Kadazan-dusun: 17.8%
• Bajau: 13.4%
• Malay: 11.5%
• Murut: 3.3%
• Other bumiputra: 14.6%
• Chinese: 9.6%
• Other non-bumiputra: 4.8%
• Non-Malaysian citizen: 25%
• Kadazan-dusun: 17.8%
• Bajau: 13.4%
• Malay: 11.5%
• Murut: 3.3%
• Other bumiputra: 14.6%
• Chinese: 9.6%
• Other non-bumiputra: 4.8%
• Non-Malaysian citizen: 25%
It seems the Filipinos make up most of those Non-Malaysian Citizens. Seems they do not advertise the majority of those 25% has Filipinos because they know has a separate group they are the largest. They just mention the Chinese.
QUOTE
The largest non-indigenous ethnic group is the Chinese
Which is not true. Its the Filipinos. Seems recognizing the Filipinos huge population in Sabah would create political problems especially for the Malay controlled Central government on the Malayan Peninsula. The Malay might be majority on the Malayan Peninsula but in Sabah they only make up 11.5% while the Filipinos the majority of those 25%. Some sources say Filpinos make up 30% of the population of Sabah.
Found this a while back. Never posted it but will this time. Seems many Sabah children of illegal immigrants from the Philippines are not recognized has being Citizens of Malaysia. The Malaysian govt. know if they start recognizing them that in time Filipinos could have much political power in Sabah. By the way. The original inhabitants of Sabah do not want to be pushed around by the Malay controlled Central government but also do not want Filipinos moving in. They do not want to become minorities in there own State.
This is the Video on Filipinos and there children in Sabah. Really informative:
Part One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGDXjuaKwxk...PL&index=25
Part Two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFI95BYVpI...feature=related
Bajau are also Filipinos !!!
China is a land stealer they stole Orchid Island from us and Gando from korea.
These islands belong to the Philippines because they are close to the Philippines?
These islands were Chinese territory when there was not even a Philippines.
These islands were Chinese territory when there was not even a Philippines.
QUOTE (zhengchenggong @ May 28 2009, 10:01 PM) 
These islands belong to the Philippines because they are close to the Philippines?
These islands were Chinese territory when there was not even a Philippines.
These islands were Chinese territory when there was not even a Philippines.
I agree giving up spratly's claim is good..
but return lands you stole from other countries first..
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